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Thread: An Ilur in Hansville

  1. #176
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    Jun 2020
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    Greetings,

    I'm a newby here, but I'm wondering....

    It seems to me that most of the frames being planked around here will become a permanent part of the boat, but a few (looks like 3 to my untrained eye) are just molds that are NOT meant to be a permanent part of the boat. Are those molds waxed or something to prevent the epoxy from sticking to them?

    -Pete

  2. #177
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    Saco, ME
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    Pete, yes the best way to do it is a little wax or bench tallow around where the laps are, that's all!
    Clinton B. Chase
    Portland, Maine

    http://tinyurl.com/myboats

  3. #178
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    May 2015
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    Edinburgh, Scotland
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    I used packing tape

  4. #179
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    Aug 2013
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    Sunny Florida
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    600

    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    Quote Originally Posted by jeffcapeshop View Post
    I used packing tape
    Agreed, clear packing tape works wonders to prevent adhesion. That's what I used.

  5. #180
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
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    Hamilton, New Zealand
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    35

    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    That's looking good David. You're blazing a trail.

  6. #181
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    Jan 2020
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    Hansville, Wa., USA
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    It seems i've missed out on the last posts. I'm using the thin brown packing tape on my molds and anything else that I don't want to be accidentally epoxied in. The thin brown packing tape is way more flexible and sticks very well. But, it also comes off well too if I need to do some adjusting.
    I've finally epoxied on the port side #3 plank. It took a little longer than it should have because I had other projects to do. But, I was working on the plank and letting it bend slowly at the bow so that when I finally did epoxy it on today it was easy to put into place. As you saw from my earlier pictures I am sticking to what is working for me. I have a batten for the aft section with temp screws into the underlying plank, a stiffer batten for the mid section with temp screws into batten blocks under the underlying plank, and I am using some pads with temp screws into batten blocks for the bow section. There are permanent screws into the permanent bulkheads, transom, and stem.
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  7. #182
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    Guerilla Bay, NSW, Australia
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    Off and cooking with gas now :-) Just realised (Doh!) why you are getting plank sag and I didn't - my 14' 5" hull has 7 moulds including the transom, yours has 5 - might be a factor perhaps? Hope you are scraping excess epoxy on the inside of the hull after the plank is clamped in placed - believe me you don't want to be removing a lot of epoxy inside the hull - not a nice job..................
    Good Luck and good work. Regards Neil

  8. #183
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    Jan 2020
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    Hansville, Wa., USA
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    Hi Neil, I only experienced plank sag on the garboard plank between two wide areas between Bulkheads that were far apart. I’m not seeing any sag on the rest of the planks so far. I can see the flat spots but it isn’t too bad. I could just leave it or possibly fill the low areas with some fairing compound.
    Funny you should mention cleaning the excess epoxy on the under side. One of the negatives of this kit is that getting access to the under side is quite difficult. I was sort of shocked when I scrambled under and saw some areas I didn’t get cleaned up. The next planks have better access and I’m really concentrating on cleaning the under side now, but there isn’t anything I can do about the areas I missed. I’ll have to deal with it when the boat is turned over. The plus side is that the areas I missed will be under the floor boards. I’ll use a chisel and a Drexel tool or something to clean up as best I can.

  9. #184
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
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    Eastern PA and The Boonies, Maine
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    A heat gun and a putty knife will become your favorite epoxy cleaning friends. I have a fair amount of interior cleaning to do as well, especially at the bow end and stem interior where it's pretty impossible to reach for an old man with no pretzel left in his body.

    My challenge is that I have to borrow a portable generator to run the heat gun, my old tired backup generator won't handle it, and my solar system isn't large enough to keep it powered for anything more than a few minutes.
    I swear I'm half done.

  10. #185
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    Jan 2009
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    northwestern Wisconsin
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete Bergquist View Post
    A heat gun and a putty knife will become your favorite epoxy cleaning friends.
    Yes! Don't bother trying to clean off epoxy without heat. The heat gun softens it and makes it easy to scrape off. MUCH more pleasant than any other method.

    Tom
    You don't have to be prepared as long as you're willing to suffer the consequences.

    www.tompamperin.com

  11. #186
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    Jan 2020
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    Hansville, Wa., USA
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    114

    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    Thanks for reminding me to use heat to cleanup my missed epoxy places. The stem interior and aft interior at the transom are hard to get at until the boat is turned over. Even then, it’s a hard place to get at.

  12. #187
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    Jan 2020
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    Hansville, Wa., USA
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    For the Ilur builders, I have a question. After I get the #4 planks on I can put on the bilge keels.
    Is it better to put them and the skeg on after plank 4 is on or wait until all the planks are on?
    Does anyone know what the best length is for the bilge keels? There is no reference on the drawings for the length, but Vivier lists them on his kit as 1100mm which is about 43 5/16”.

  13. #188
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    Aug 2019
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    Providence,RI USA
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    That sounds like a fair measurement for the bilge runners, David. I put them and the skeg on after four planks, I believe. You can reach the centerline of the boat easily at that point.

    I like your planking method! It's looking good.

    I hope to have my CB leak fixed soon (fingers crossed) and sail some this fall. This summer is just too hot and weird.

    Mike

  14. #189
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    Aug 2019
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    Providence,RI USA
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    And just a plug for how great a design you are building...here's a photo of one happy captain on the maiden voyage.

    mike sail.jpg

  15. #190
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    Jan 2015
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    Pittsburgh, PA
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    David, I double checked and according to my plans and my build, the bilge keels are on the 4th plan running along the edge of the third. I used Vivier's dimensions and installed them right after the 4th plank was set. Chris

  16. #191
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    Jan 2020
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    Hansville, Wa., USA
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    The Starboard #3 plank is on and I epoxied on the skeg today. Tomorrow I'll start looking at the port #4 plank. The bilge keels can go on after the #4 plank is on. I'm going to change my batten bolt pattern to match where the screws will go to hold the bilge keels so I'll have to do some figuring.
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  17. #192
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    northwestern Wisconsin
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael_Owen View Post
    And just a plug for how great a design you are building...here's a photo of one happy captain on the maiden voyage.

    mike sail.jpg
    I love your color scheme--that interior works really well. Great boat!

    Have you tried the traditional "move the sheet from gunwale to gunwale" sheeting technique? Or are you happy with the traveler arrangement? I'm curious about whether getting the sheeting point farther outboard would provide any noticeable benefit. I had the same issue with my Alaska, with the rope traveler not allowing the sheet all the way outboard. I was highly skeptical about needing to manually shift the sheet at each tack to get the sheeting point all the way outboard, but it turns out I like that method best of all the many I tried.

    Now, does it actually matter for performance? I have no idea. Maybe a racing skipper could tell. That ain't me.

    Tom
    You don't have to be prepared as long as you're willing to suffer the consequences.

    www.tompamperin.com

  18. #193
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    Aug 2019
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    Providence,RI USA
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    Hi Tom,

    I've got the thumb cleats made and will install them soon. I may at first try using the bronze ring that slides along the rope traveler to hook onto the cleats, to give this traditional method a try.

    I'm not a "go fast" sailor either, and anyway not experienced enough to notice those subtle tweaks that racers might.

    Mike

  19. #194
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    Hansville, Wa., USA
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    Both #4 planks are on. I think its interesting how both port and starboard planks are exactly the same and yet there always seems to be some slight differences as to how the planks land. One side always seems to lay better than the other. Since the bilge keels are mounted on the keel side of the #4 planks I laid in some extra epoxy to make a larger fillet between plank 3 and 4. I'll take a short break from planking to put on the bilge keels. I'm making a template first and hopefully it can be used for both sides.
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  20. #195
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    Guerilla Bay, NSW, Australia
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    You are getting the hang of this planking job - we all know it gets easier but when you are gluing on the early planks it seems so difficult............... Good idea to add the skeg and bilge runners now whilst you can access the centreline. My bilge runners are just Spotted Gum which I bend down to the hull with some screws through the laps - SG is an Australian hardwood that is almost 100% ding proof, and it bends - though it is a pig to plane because it has a fiddle-back grain to it.
    Regards Neil

  21. #196
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    Hansville, Wa., USA
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    Hi Neil, The Spotted Gum wood sounds like a good material for the bilge keels. I'll be using Ash. It's a hard wood and I'll be putting on a half oval brass runner to help protect it. I didn't get very far today. I cut out the bottom and top contour of the bilge keel, but when I offered it up to the boat I found it needs a slight bend outboard in the middle and it needs a slight twist. Ash doesn't bend very well so instead of fighting it when putting it on with epoxy I steamed it and set it in place with some help to get the right bend and twist. It will make finally assembly much easier. I still have to shape the top to fit the brass half oval and taper the ends some. It will get a chance to sit all day tomorrow because I'll be taking the day off. My wife and I are taking a drive to celebrate our 34th anniversary. Not bad for two people who are on their second marriage.
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  22. #197
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    Guerilla Bay, NSW, Australia
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    Hi David, my1st wife and I have been married 37 years - congratulations to you and your wife. Yes, boats are bends and curves, we have to shape the wood to fit the boat. I'll try to post a photo of varnished spotted gum one day - it is staggeringly beautiful grain imho. I have just glued my rudder head together, will glue in the mast step next and then sand/varnish spars...............................

  23. #198
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    Hansville, Wa., USA
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    It's hard to believe 5 days have gone by since my last post. I know have both bilge keels on and its time to get back to planking. I'm not sure why, but i needed a break from planking. The next plank will be different because it has started to go around the chine. I think I'll have to reconsider my batten clamping procedure and there is more beveling to do. The half lap at the transom may not be as easy either because it looks like I may have to incorporate a bevel into the lap, but I won't know for sure until I get the #4 plank beveled and ready for plank 5. The bilge gave me a chance to use my band saw. I still have lots to learn about using it and how to get the wash board effect out.
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  24. #199
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    May 2017
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    North Bend, OR. USA
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    Looking good!

    Ken
    When the desire to learn is greater than the desire to win, the journey becomes the prize.

  25. #200
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    Sep 2018
    Location
    Green Lake Seattle, WA, USA
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    78

    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    Hey David, I'm down in Seattle on Green Lake. I've built a couple of CLC's S&G prams, but am seriously looking at an Ilur or Beg Meil for my next boat. I'm loving your blog and it's very cool that you're so close. I understand about the social distancing thing, but if you ever need any help, give me a shout out.

  26. #201
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    Jan 2020
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    Hansville, Wa., USA
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    114

    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    Thanks Captain Skully, Any time you feel like venturing out to the boonies you are welcome (masked up). This is my first boat build so I can't say how the Ilur kit compares to CLC's. I had originally thought about building the 10' Tenderly from CLC, but I decided to go with the bigger and a little more stable Ilur for the Puget Sound.

  27. #202
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    Jan 2020
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    Hansville, Wa., USA
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    I finally got on another set of planks. Both port and starboard #5 planks are on. The beveling and gains are a little different and I am learning a lot as I go. I just wish I didn't have to make so many mistakes to learn. There seems to be a flat spot at the forward bulkhead. This bulkhead was allowed to be beveled from the mid point and forward to allow the plank to bend around it a little easier. On the #4 plank I noticed that I didn't need to bevel it much, so I only beveled it a little. Even so, after it was all glued up i noticed that there was a flat spot on the plank right at that bulkhead. I talked to Clint Chase and he suggested shimming it out a bit there. When I glued on the starboard #5 I only took off the edge of the bulkhead that was protruding beyond the plank. That reduced the flat spot, but there still might be a little there still. Does any Ilur kit builders remember having a flat spot there? Does the flat spot go away with the rest of the planks, or do you remember doing something to fix this problem?

    It took a little longer to get these two planks on because other life things had to be taken care of. Our Wifi quit so I ran a dedicated Ethernet cable under the house from the modem to the Roku box so we could watch our streaming programs while another modem/router was being sent from Centurylink. There was car maintenance to do, birthday party's to get set up for, setting up the new modem/router, and other domestic chores that came up. We have also been visited by many more animals than usual. Several mom deer and fawns, several big bucks, raccoons, a bobcat, hawks, and a young bear that tore down the suet feeder pole. Man can not live by boat building alone.
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  28. #203
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    Mar 2019
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    Rushworth, Australia
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    Good work on the boat David. Pity about the flat spot, it’s those sorts of things that one can’t stop looking at, damn it.

    what’s a suet feeder pole?

    i just had thought on your flat , maybe spring out the last plank you put on with sticks underneath on the building frame then hopefully the next plank or two will help hold it out a bit?
    Last edited by Andrew Donald; 08-13-2020 at 07:02 PM.

  29. #204
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    Jan 2020
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    Hansville, Wa., USA
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    Hi Andrew, the flat spot is at the forward bulkhead. If the next plank looks like it is flat there too, Iíll look at shimming under the plank at the bulkhead. The only thing about that is that Iíll then have to figure out the right bevel for the plank there.

    The suet feeder pole is just a pole about 8í to 10í high with bird feeder suet cage which holds a cake of suet for birds to feed on. It attracts regular birds and also many different kinds of wood peckers. Iíve been feeding birds for over 20 years here and have created quite the eco system.

  30. #205
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    Mar 2019
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    Rushworth, Australia
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    561

    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    Take those fasteners out, then when hull is flipped run an epoxy fillet. test bevel of bulkhead with a batten while bevelling , don’t go too far.

    Funny but a lot of lapstrake builders (myself included) complain that planks won’t lay against first bulkhead/mould !!
    Last edited by Andrew Donald; 08-14-2020 at 03:21 AM.

  31. #206
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    Bainbridge Island WA
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    H ow easily did the #4 plank lay onto the molds? I know Clint uses a scarfed/puzzle joint to align the planks but it wouldn't take much wiggle in the joint to move the far end of the plank a noticeable amount. Then you end up edge-setting the plank to fit the notches and the curve between molds gets out of whack. Also, plywood being wood is going to vary a bit in bendiness.

    At this point, I would be tempted to pull all the screws out of the first mold and see what the hull does. It might just relax into a nice fair curve again. In that case you can shim it out as needed to keep it there. But you can't shim too much because you already have the planks cut and they are expecting to lay down into those notches. (If you were building from plans you would be spiling as you go and making those adjustments, a kit locks you in to certain shapes so you are much more limited in how much you can adapt). I think you should look at how the #5 and 6 planks lay into the molds, letting 4 and 5 do what they need to do to get #6 to line up where it is supposed to go. You don't want to compound the error any more than necessary.

    In the end, you won't see that plank much, it will be under water or out of sight on the trailer. It would be more of an issue if you were building a strict one-design dingy and some officious measurer was coming out to certify you work.
    Steve

    If you would have a good boat, be a good guy when you build her - honest, careful, patient, strong.
    H.A. Calahan

  32. #207
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    Hansville, Wa., USA
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    Hi Steve, Taking out the screws really isn't an option. This boat is screwed and epoxied at the laps and bulkheads. Edge setting doesn't seem to be a factor either. When I move the bow end of the plank up and down it doesn't effect the flat spot that i can see. Shimming the forward bulkhead is an option but it would only be to shim the lower edge of the plank out to keep it from being sucked in to far. I can't really shim out the upper edge of the plank because that would only make the flat spot gap bigger. If I shim out the lower edge of the plank at the forward bulkhead I wouldn't know how much to shim it unless it is the amount that the plank flows in its fair curve. But, that is a little hard to determine because the planks normally bulge out some when curved around the molds. I am stuck with what action to take because I have no boat building experience. For now, I can fill the gap with epoxy, but my fear is that when I get to the last plank it will be flat and very noticeable. If you felt so inclined, I would welcome an eyes on visit. my cel is (360) 473-7055.

  33. #208
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    Sep 2010
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville



    Can you make a bunch of battens out of the off-cuts? Bend them around the remaining framing at each of the plank notches and see what happens. You can tune-up the framing a bit at this point to smooth out the flat spot if that's where the problem is coming from.



    We're talking about that extra "flare" in the plank between the stem and bulkhead, right? The transition from plank lands into gains is hard to get right, I wonder if you didn't take enough off back around #3 and now the planks are not following quite the same curve as the computer expected them to be. You might be able to over-cut the section in question enough to get back on track. There is some flexibility in the plywood too, you might try drawing in the plank with a turnbuckle or spanish windlass. If you flatten the curve a bit and make some adjustments in your gain I think things will be much closer to where you want them. You might find you need to use the spanish windlass technique on the next plank too, if so get it set up before you glue. You want to have the plank attached to the stem in their proper relation.
    Steve

    If you would have a good boat, be a good guy when you build her - honest, careful, patient, strong.
    H.A. Calahan

  34. #209
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    Jan 2020
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    Hansville, Wa., USA
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    Thanks Steve, I think you are right on. I think it was at plank #4 that i should hav changed my bow gain from 12” to 15 or 16”. I did make a change in the transom gain because it was easier for me to figure out. I noticed that “flare” last night and realized that by not reducing it I was creating the flat spot aft of it. I’m working on the port #6 plank and I’ll take the gain back further. I’ll still have to fill the low spot from plank 5 with epoxy, but hopefully I can get back on track. The other thing I was doing was drawing the planks into the low spot because I wanted the plank tighter up against its previous plank. When I epoxy on this #6 plank I’ll have to resist drawing it up tightInto the flat spot and let the epoxy fill the gap.

  35. #210
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    Mar 2019
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    Rushworth, Australia
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    David, don’t try correcting the Fspot all in one plank and when adjusting the bevel of frame 1 and gain etc shine a light from below so it casts shadows to give you an idea where to sneak bits. Maybe you could cut in a very shallow gain at each end of flat spot too, only 1/32 or less may enough.
    thinking about removing screws and releasing epoxy ( with a multi tool from inside) may not do anything cos planks are all glued together and holding each other now.

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