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Thread: An Ilur in Hansville

  1. #281
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    Jan 2017
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    Hi David,
    I'm also wondering about epoxy coating and paint systems at present.

    Did you seal the underneath of the ply side-floor sections beneath strakes 5-6?
    They look hellish to access once the hull is built so I'm looking at giving them and the inside of those planks in that section a good few coats of wests epoxy (It's what I've already got for the build) and prime and paint.

    I'm also confused about one-pot v two products and the fact that some international/interlux products aren't available or don't have clear direct subsitutes in the NZ/Aus makes it difficult to grab a recommendation from our northern hemisphere friends here.

    Any other recommendations of coating products for the antipodes, feel free to plug them on my Ilur in NZ build thread thanks...

  2. #282
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    Jan 2020
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    Hansville, Wa., USA
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    Hi Wayne, After I originally fit the two side-floor sections I kept checking their fit as I put on more planks but I always removed them for easier access. I won’t install them permanently until the boat is turned over and the boat interior is finished. Because those side floors will be inaccessible after they are epoxied in place I’ll most likely apply 2 coats of epoxy and several coats of primer, and also paint the under sides, but since I’m not installing them now I may change my mind when I actually get to that spot.

    I am still working on how to finish the hull exterior. I am using System Three epoxy products which don’t leave any amine blush if the curing temps are in spec. I’m pretty sure I’ll apply 2 coats of the System Three Silver tip laminating epoxy. It is more penetrating than the regular general purpose epoxy. I’m pretty sure too that I’ll use the Interlux Brightside paint. I’m still undecided whether to use the 2 part water based SystemThree primer or the Interlux 2 part epoxy primer. I have an Interlux brochure and I have read the online tech notes on the Interlux products which help with making a decision.
    All you can do is check out the International products and their specs and what other products you have available to you there and apply what you think is best. After. Few years of wear you’ll know if it works or not and you can make changes if need be.

  3. #283
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    Jan 2017
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    Thanks David. Fixing my floors might make for some interesting plank clamping for 6 and 7 but I was concerned leaving them removeable might leave them not lining up on their central slot after planks are installed. You know how it is when you get an idea in your head that seems obvious until you see someone doing it differently. Your epoxy and coating plan sounds good. I suspect Iím beginning to overthink things on that front. Wayne

  4. #284
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    I used the system 3 2 part primer and Pettit ezpoxy enamel with excellent results, hopefully the interlux would behave the same way. The primer coats were amazingly smooth after cur
    I swear I'm half done.

  5. #285
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    Jan 2020
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    Hansville, Wa., USA
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    Thanks Pete, that’s good to know.

  6. #286
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    Hansville, Wa., USA
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    I haven't made much progress lately. There are so many house and yard projects to get done before winter. I try to work on the boat a little each day, but i'm not getting much done. I've been working on rounding over all the false keel edges, fiddling with the false keel, and rounding over the plank edges. I've filled in some minor blemishes on the planks and, in general, just getting ready to epoxy coat the hull. The temps are to low now to use the slow hardener. I don't have any fast hardener so I would have to get some if I want to continue. I'm not sure how the fast hardener will flow but the tech data says it can be applied in temps above 35 degrees. I'll be taking a week off soon to visit my son in Ashland, Oregon and by the time I get back the temps will be much lower. The other option is to build an enclosure around the boat and cover it with plastic sheets and use my radiant heaters to keep the temps warm enough to use the slow hardener.
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  7. #287
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    Sep 2010
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    A plastic tent over the hull with a radiant heater underneath will do a surprisingly good job warming things up.

    You've got a nice little shop there, insulating it could be a pretty quick job. My main boat-building space is a reformed 2-car garage, with insulation, drywall and (gasp) pegboard, it stays quite comfortable all winter with one of those radiant heaters going. Keeping the wild temperature swings at bay also keeps everything drier as condensation doesn't form. Being able to paint the walls white brightened things up too.
    Steve

    If you would have a good boat, be a good guy when you build her - honest, careful, patient, strong.
    H.A. Calahan

  8. #288
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
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    Vancouver, BC
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    933

    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    Your boat is looking really nice David. If I can do half as well with my wherry I'll be happy.

  9. #289
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    May 2017
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    North Bend, OR. USA
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    460

    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    Coming along nicely!

    Ken
    When the desire to learn is greater than the desire to win, the journey becomes the prize.

  10. #290
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    Sep 2018
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    Green Lake Seattle, WA, USA
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    I put a space heater directly under the boat the middle of the boat so the warm air would be trapped inside the hull as it rose.

  11. #291
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    Jan 2020
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    Hansville, Wa., USA
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    I know I should have insulated the garage when I built it. With so much stuff hanging between and on the studs and with so many built in work benches and shelves it would be very time consuming to insulate it now. I’m pretty sure I’ll build a basic stud frame around the boat just big enough to hang some plastic sheets with heaters inside to warm up the work space so I can put on a couple of epoxy coats. The other consideration is that the humidity is very high now.

  12. #292
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    Mar 2019
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    Rushworth, Australia
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    What about renting a dehumidifier?

  13. #293
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    Hansville, Wa., USA
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    I’ve been floundering around with indecision and lack of motivation for awhile now. I think I have boat builders burnout. The cold weather isn’t helping. I decided to take a break and visit my son for a week. With the pandemic it’s been 9 months since my last visit. He lives 500 miles south of me which is a 9 hour drive. When I get back home I hope I can get back into the building swing.
    I’ve had a hard time with deciding about paint, primer, and whether to go through all the trouble of marking the waterline and painting the bottom with bottom paint. When I set up the strong back I put it on rollers with the idea that I would need to move the boat around in the garage for access into my attic. So there was no point in leveling it. I realized during the build that by not having the boat level it made a few things harder because I couldn’t use a level. Using a try pod mounted laser level I could possibly find a way to level the strong back fore and aft and port to starboard, mark the waterline, and bottom pain, but I just don’t know it it would be worth it. For the most part I’ll only be doing day sailing, but there is also a possibility that I could trailer the boat up into the San Juan Islands and the boat would be in the water for a week or so. Even after reading all the forum posts it’s hard to tell how long a topside paint can’t tolerate being submerged.
    when I get home I’m going to build a frame around the boat and enclose it in plastic sheets. I have 4 radiant heaters to raise the temp. I’ll let the temp stay around 70 for several days to make sure the wood is dry then figure out a plan to put on 2 coats of epoxy. The plan includes how much of the boat to epoxy now or wait until the boat is flipped. Since I won’t be painting the sheer plank until after the flip should I epoxy coat it now or later. The same goes for the false stem. It’s really hard to tell how the false stem looks at the head while it’s upside down. I would most likely want to do some last minute sanding/fairing once it’s flipped. Where do I draw the line between the epoxy and leaving the wood bare.

  14. #294
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    Jan 2017
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    Hamilton, New Zealand
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    Sounds like a break after all that hard work would do you good David.
    When a hobby begins to feel like a chore it's a sign that a spell off it is in order.
    Your Ilur is looking great and is inspiration for me as a fellow builder but I'm sure we all know how you feel after a long burst and in the current climate.
    I'm curious to see answers on your painting question as I am also in the same situation as you with largerly day sails ahead with the odd spell of a maybe 3-4 days afloat. I'm hoping bottom paint isn't required.
    This comes after to glued my floor panels in during planking (despite instructions not to!) and had a over a week of epoxy sealing and painting of the resulting compartment before I can now finally move on.

  15. #295
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    Narellen, NSW, Australia
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    When I built my TN I also used a wheeled strong back because I needed to be able to move it. I marked the garage floor where the four wheels sat and then leveled everything, that way by always returning the frame to the same spot it should stay pretty close to level (in theory)

    As for epoxy coating, while I'm still a novice in such things my understanding is that it's better if the coatings overlap while still not totally cured to give the new coat the best bond to the prior coat so I did the entire outer hull before righting the boat.

    On the subject waterline marking, I didn't do it because it's a trailer boat and small. Too many areas of different colours tend to make it look too "busy" as my mum would have said, but that's just my opinion.

    Will topside paint survive a week in the water? Don't ask us we're all individuals with as many opinions as there are boats. Ask the paint manufacturer.

  16. #296
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    May 2015
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    Guerilla Bay, NSW, Australia
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    Just a quick comment regarding the epoxying - if you use an epoxy like Wests then remember to scrub off the amine blush between fully cured coats. I forgot to scrub the skeg on Bella and occasionaly find bare patches (paint flakes off) after I have brought her back home. It's not and issue because the paint is really just cosmetic - the epoxy is the waterproofing.
    Personally I don't epoxy hulls (only skegs) and don't do a waterline on anything under about 20 feet - but that's just me!!

    Take a break, have a KitKat and return refreshed :-)

    Regards Neil

  17. #297
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    Hansville, Wa., USA
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    Thanks for all the input and advice. It’s all appreciated. I am relaxing and eating chocolate, but I’ll be back home and ready to get back to boat work in a few days.

  18. #298
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    After a week off and visiting my son and family I came home to pick up where I left off. I still didn't feel all that excited to work on the boat, but I just kept at it a little at a time. I sanded the Hull several times and each time I found some more flaws. The weather was just warm enough to apply some Quick Fair. After the next sanding I found some more flaws and did another Quick Fair. So now the weather has turned cold again and if I am going to continue I knew I had to do something to make the hull warmer. I bought some lumber and built a rough frame around the boat and hung two sheets of 6 mill 10' x 25' plastic around the frame. With 4 radiant heaters under the boat and the plastic covering the temp was around 70F. Today I applied the first of two coats of penetrating epoxy. I have to leave the heaters on all night because the temps will be dropping to the mid 30'sF. If the epoxy is set all apply the 2nd coat of epoxy tomorrow. Then some sanding before I think about the primer.
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  19. #299
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    After sanding the first coat of epoxy I found some more flaws I wanted to fill, but the next day I put on the second coat of epoxy. I'm letting that harden up until tomorrow then I'll start sanding that down. I need to check out what a good final sanding grit is prior to applying the primer. I think I'll work on the half oval brass skid rails and get the fore and aft sections bent before I put on the primer. If I heat up the brass to get it the bend easier I don't want to mess up the primer. With the 4 radiant heaters inside my plastic tent I can keep the temps around 70F.
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  20. #300
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    Looks fantastic David. You can be proud.

  21. #301
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    Hamilton, New Zealand
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    That's a fine hull David.

  22. #302
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    Looking good.
    Don't rush getting primer on the hull, especially in the colder temperatures it is going to take a week on so for the epoxy to finish curing. Two weeks would be even better. Put the paint on too soon and it won't dry.

    In fact, I'd go so far as to suggest flipping the hull and fitting it out now. That way if you end up needing to sink a fastener or two through from the outside the thought of having to fix the paint won't stop you.
    Steve

    If you would have a good boat, be a good guy when you build her - honest, careful, patient, strong.
    H.A. Calahan

  23. #303
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    Mar 2019
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    Quote Originally Posted by stromborg View Post
    Looking good.
    Don't rush getting primer on the hull, especially in the colder temperatures it is going to take a week on so for the epoxy to finish curing. Two weeks would be even better. Put the paint on too soon and it won't dry.

    In fact, I'd go so far as to suggest flipping the hull and fitting it out now. That way if you end up needing to sink a fastener or two through from the outside the thought of having to fix the paint won't stop you.



    ^
    x2

  24. #304
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    Guerilla Bay, NSW, Australia
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    Good point above about waiting for epoxy to fully harden - it's worth waiting a little bit more. Your hull looks fantastic, clearly you have much more patience than me because I work on a "good enough" basis with sanding, and the look of some planks always reminds me to try and not rush the scarfing next time!

    When you bend the brass around that curve at the bottom of the stem be careful. if you drill the holes before bending as the brass can fold and the weaker points created by drilling. I pre-drill along the flatter areas of the keelson but do bend-before-drill around the bottom of the stem (which will be top if your hull is upside down). And, it is well worth creating a wee jig for yourself that will get the hole right in the middle of the brass - especially the 1/2 inch stuff.

    Regards Neil
    Last edited by neil.henderson; 11-10-2020 at 08:49 PM.

  25. #305
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    Always good to get advice and perspective. I’ve started sanding the epoxy by hand and my fingers are already raw. But, I’d rather do it slower by hand than risk over sanding which I’ve done I the past. I’m not rushing the primer but I’ll probably prime and paint prior to the flip. I can’t think of any reason I would have to run any screws up through the hull. I can get the hull warm in my enclosure with the 4 radiant heaters inside, but I’ve turned them off for now. I started getting emails from my electric provider about using 80% more electricity than this time last year.
    The half oval brass skids came pre drilled so there’s nothing I can do about that. But, I did plan how to make the bends in between the holes. A tip I got from Clint Chase was to place the skids, put in the screws up to the bend and then use a pipe (holding each end) and run/roll the pipe down over the brass at the bend slowly bending it down. I may use some heat on the brass if it doesn’t start to bend easily. I’m not to concerned about the bend at the bow, but the bend at the aft end of the skeg is very sharp. I’m a little nervous about that one.
    I can’t take any credit for my plank scarfs. They were created by Clint Chase and CNC cut on an overlapping close fit pattern. I just had to epoxy them together and check that the offset was close.

  26. #306
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    The only holes I had to put through the hull of my Gannet was when I put screws through to hold down the bilge runners - but you have these on already so I reckon you're correct - just go ahead & paint & be prepared to touch up the sheer plank just before launch because it tends to get a few scratches during fitout.............
    I'm knee deep in rigging and splicing.

  27. #307
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    Sanding epoxy isn't my most favorite thing to do. Hand sanding is hard on the fingers, but I've sanded the gloss off the second coat of epoxy down to 80 grit. Before I move on the sanding down to 120 grit I wanted to get the fore and aft half oval brass keel skids bent. I thought that if the heat from bending did any damage I could fix it before final sanding and before applying the prime coat. Of course when I went to look for the fasteners for the half ovals I couldn't find them. Fortunately I live only 40 miles from Port Townsend which is a big boat yard and was able to buy the bronze fasteners I needed. After getting the skids screwed down close to the bend I slipped a heat stopper pad under the half oval and warmed it up quite a bit with a heat gun. Once I thought it was hot enough I removed the heat stopper pad and slipped in some sand paper under it to prevent the heat from the half oval from doing any damage to the epoxy. I was able to bend the forward half oval brass skid with some help from rolling a pipe over the bend area and pushing down as I went. Once I got close enough I drilled and placed a screw to draw it down all the way. The aft skeg bend was a pretty sharp bend and I couldn't get it to bend much with rolling the pipe, but a few taps with a rubber hammer did the trick. Both keel ends now have the half oval brass skids bent to fit. I won't worry about the rest of the skids until after I get the bottom primed or maybe not until after the bottom has had 2 coats of paint prior to the final coat.
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  28. #308
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    Good work David

  29. #309
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    Eastern PA and The Boonies, Maine
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    David,

    One of these will save your fingers many layers of epidermis! It's soft and is great on curved surfaces.

    https://www.amazon.com/3M-05442-Stikit-Soft-Block/dp/B000XBFBB4/ref=sr_1_7?dchild=1&keywords=3m+sanding+block&qid=1605708249&sr=8-7
    I swear I'm half done.

  30. #310
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    2,322

    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    David as a customer I can save you quite a few bucks on those foam blocks, let me know! You too Pete!
    Clinton B. Chase
    Portland, Maine

    http://tinyurl.com/myboats

  31. #311
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    Hansville, Wa., USA
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    Thanks for all the input. I actually have the short and long sanding blocks which I’ll use on the final stage to knock down any remaining high spots. I do everything in small stages. I’m using sticky sandpaper folded over so there are 2 sides of grit. I can get a lot more sanding done that way. I first knock off the epoxy gloss with a rough sand with 80, do a finish sand with 80, do a rough sand with 120, then a finish sand with 120, then a once over spot sand. The last stage is with the sanding block to knock down any left over high spots. If it isn’t totally flat I’m not going to worry about it.

  32. #312
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    Well, I have to admit that my approach had a flaw. I thought I had the bare wood sanded flat enough, but as it turned out I did not. I also thought that 2 coats of epoxy would be enough thickness to allow some minor flattening. When I block sanded the last step to get it all flat I found that there were some highs and lows that I had to sand through the epoxy. I really don't like to go backwards so I wondered if It would be ok to just continue on and apply 3 coats of primer. But, I decided to epoxy recoat those areas and apply another coat to the transom while I was at it since the first coat was thin. So now, I'm back to square one with waiting for the epoxy to cure, sanding, and waiting enough time for the epoxy to fully cure prior to applying the primer. But, its winter like temps here and I don't need to rush. I decided I do care if the planks are flat!

  33. #313
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    Narellen, NSW, Australia
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    We can be our own worst critics, I know there are a few flaws in my TN but only the fishes and I know about them. You have to get it to a state you're happy to live with.

  34. #314
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    Paso Robles, CA USA
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    WOW...what a beautiful job you are doing! I can sympathize with the "home work"! I too have been "becalmed" a bit by much fall (get ready for winter rain) season here (and I have to move my tools inside from out under the pop-up tent (it doesn't rain here from April to November....but it did start now! - so in for rain, out for sun!). NICE WORK!!!!

  35. #315
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    I'm curious what you intend to use as primer? I did much the same as you are doing on my Nutshell (no doubt a much easier proposition with so many fewer hull planks!) One thing I did do is to make some sanding blocks from spare scrap lumber - I make these "to fit" (roughly) some of the contours, attach 80 grit and do the leveling. Also, I suggest using some fairing compound on the low spots before cutting through the epoxy if at all possible (may be too late?). Anyway, I put 3 coats of west system (in rapid succession), faired it with long board and fairing compound, then 3 (I think - maybe 2?) coats of Total Boat High Build epoxy primer - should be able to do that fairly cold (check the specs), but it is a very high build and sands wonderfully (way better than West system). I will also prime the interior with that (without the west system epoxy). Hang in there - your work is inspirational! IMG_2551.jpg

    Right now I'm making a "second attempt" at fitting quarter knees. The first set are an awesome fit --- BUT I don't like how they contour to the curve of the fore / aft transoms. I fit them "level" to the water, and I like them better canted up a bit to fit the curves ---- so I'm re-doing it (will be done today after the first set of practice!). I think I'm still overthinking this, but this boat build is practice anyway (Somes Sound 12 1/2 is next, and maybe a Caledona Yawl after that) - so some re-do's and experiments are what I want anyway - all is good fun!

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