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Thread: What would you do with this tree?

  1. #36
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    Default Re: What would you do with this tree?

    Quote Originally Posted by SMARTINSEN View Post
    CBMM has been closed to the public for this current nastiness, I do not know about their administrative side of things, but they might be slow. They are building Dove, and presumably will have the need for lots of tackle and rigging. I run across some of these guys upon occasion,and will ask if I have an opportunity, but do not know when that might be.
    Thanks, I knew they were closed but hoped they might be working from home. I sent the email to Jenn, but can try to contact other folks I know there.

    Bummer about John Ford passing.
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  2. #37
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    Default Re: What would you do with this tree?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Cleek View Post
    You might consider checking out https://woodmizer.com/us/ under "services" in their drop-down menu. They have a listing of local sawyers all over the country who have their portable sawmills. The same is true for Granberg International, which makes the Alaskan chainsaw mills. https://granberg.com/?v=7516fd43adaa Those guys will often happily buck and slab windfalls for a share of the lumber. They can be amazingly creative in moving logs and working around difficult locations. There are lots of ways to deal with your leech field, too. The pros know how to deal with that. (Probably, they would lay steel construction plates on the ground to spread the load of any heavy equipment.) You'd be surprised what a good crane operator can accomplish, too. That wood should probably be worth more than what it would cost to get it out of there, but I wouldn't consider it a do-it-yourself project. The size of that tree demands serious equipment and knowhow.
    Thanks, Bob, that's a great tip. This is definitely a job for a pro. A guy from our usual tree service is coming on Tuesday.

    It would be great to get someone to mill the wood for shares. Just moving the tree will be big bucks, and the deductible on our insurance is .... well, not as low as it could be.

    I also have a big standing dead black walnut that needs to turn into lumber. IIRC the Wood Mizer is a bandsaw mill which would have much less waste than a chainsaw.
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  3. #38
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    Default Re: What would you do with this tree?

    Quote Originally Posted by UCanoe_2 View Post
    IIRC the Wood Mizer is a bandsaw mill which would have much less waste than a chainsaw.
    I was wondering if a Petersen type sawmill would work, as the mill is erected over the log and can be brought on site in pieces, which means you wouldn't need heavy equipment moving either the log or mill. The sawn timber can be taken off the site one piece at a time.
    Money may not buy happiness, but it can buy a boat that will pull right up next to it!

  4. #39
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    Default Re: What would you do with this tree?

    Thanks, Stiletto; never heard of them before. Looks like they have an aluminum frame and are possibly more portable. There is a Petersen owner 100 or so miles from here who does custom sawing. There are several Wood Mizer guys closer.

    Moving logs around is going to be an issue. I have plenty of room, but not much flat land except the drainfield. My homeowner's insurance will pay to move the tree from where it fell, but not for handling logs to process them. I can foresee Kubota attachments in the future.

    Thinking about how to market the wood, I looked up prices online. Elm is not an especially high value timber, but neither is it the lowest price. Seems like the best prices are for live edge slabs that are less desirable for lumber. The uglier the slabs are, the more cash they bring.
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  5. #40
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    Default Re: What would you do with this tree?

    The Albert Strange yacht, Talley Ho was planked with elm up to the waterline and teak above that.
    In England they call it Canadian Elm we just call it elm just like the Americans.
    Tally Ho is over a century old and is being restored even now as we speak.
    basil

  6. #41
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    Default Re: What would you do with this tree?

    We burn a lot of dead elm, and quite like it for firewood. It's funny, but the dutch elm disease seems to come in waves here. All the big trees die off, but the smaller ones survive. After twenty years or so, the next bunch will die off. I leave them till the bark falls off the upper branches, then we fell them and harvest all the branches up to 6" or so in diameter for stove fuel. The bark just falls off, so it's very clean fuel, and so dry it rings when struck together -- it's ready to burn the day it is cut. If you want to make a quick, hot fire, it's hard to beat a stack of dry elm rounds.

    The trunk and larger diameter branches tend to rot while standing. And even if it's not rotten, the twisty grain makes it difficult to split. Even if you split it with a big hydraulic unit, the splintered, twisty chunks are difficult to stack neatly. That interlocked grain can be handy in some regards though, It was a favorite for wagon wheel hubs for just that reason. It also makes good mallet heads -- they'll never split on you. It is a lovely wood when finished, with subtle but interesting grain and coloring --not easy to work though.

  7. #42
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    Default Re: What would you do with this tree?

    The tree guys are here now, but have started with other trees. They found a mama raccoon and three babies in a hollow maple. It's raining, so they probably will not get to the big elm until tomorrow.

    There have been no responses from two museums to my offers of boatbuilding wood . I'll still have the elm milled, but into planks instead of trying for crooks and knees.
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  8. #43
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    Default Re: What would you do with this tree?

    Wood borers love elm, so poison liberally. Good luck.

  9. #44
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    Default Re: What would you do with this tree?

    Quote Originally Posted by lupussonic View Post
    Wood borers love elm, so poison liberally. Good luck.
    Please tell me more. What kind of poison? I have previously used System Three Board Defender on some Philippine Mahogany that was exposed to termites.
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  10. #45
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    Default Re: What would you do with this tree?

    Pictures or it didn't happen.

    This is a BIG chainsaw.

    20200506_143347.jpg

    This machine is called a Dingo, and I want one.

    20200506_142759.jpg

    We got some big logs. There is still a 21" black walnut that needs to come down.

    20200506_180020.jpg

    Looks like a lifetime supply of mulch as well.

    20200506_180450.jpg
    "George Washington as a boy
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  11. #46
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    Default Re: What would you do with this tree?

    That looks like a good result!
    Money may not buy happiness, but it can buy a boat that will pull right up next to it!

  12. #47
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    Default Re: What would you do with this tree?

    Holy cow that tree was a mess. I bet that chain saw made a little noise at full throttle! That was a good choice to leave for the pros, for sure. I see some areas that would make good turning blanks in those crotches.
    I swear I'm half done.

  13. #48
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    Default Re: What would you do with this tree?

    Pete, I offered some of the wood to a local woodturning club, but got no interest. Send me a PM if you want some.

    Not shown in these photos is a silver maple we took down. The main trunk was 3 ft. diameter, only 5 ft. to the first branches. I bet we will get some spalted maple slabs from it.

    We're pretty sure the mama raccoon relocated the babies that were denned in the maple.

    Yet to come down is a standing dead black walnut, about 21" diameter, nice and straight.

    Yes, this was definitely a job for the pros.

    About 18 years ago, I decided to start a black walnut plantation. I got 25 seedlings from the soil conservation service, and have let most of the volunteers grow. This tree experience has inspired me to do some major pruning next winter.

    There are several other mature walnut trees on the property. There are also several ash trees, the largest 55" diameter. We are having the ash treated for emerald ash borer. We have white pines, wild cherry, and black locust -- but also a lot of invasive autumn olive. Some good lumber will come out of here one day, although not in my lifetime.

    The property is 3.8 acres and was mostly pasture when we bought it 24 years ago. Between trees we planted and volunteers, the tree population has increased by more than 100 of various species. We make brush piles instead of burning or chipping the waste, and the rabbit population has also increased. Now I am working on a 1/2 acre food plot for deer, with clover and several brassica varieties. I inherited my mother's black thumb, and it has taken a while to figure out this agriculture stuff.
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  14. #49
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    Default Re: What would you do with this tree?

    Quote Originally Posted by mohsart View Post
    Elm is good wood for carvings, not too good for boatbuilding I believe.

    /Mats
    Elm planking was highly regarded in France and the Southern UK for planking "beach boats" due to its flexibilty. The lack of Elm trees was the demise of those type of boats, much as some would wish to blame the on-set of GRP in the 60s. There is still a few elm planked pilot gigs over 100 year old, still being used.

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    Default Re: What would you do with this tree?

    Quote Originally Posted by ahp View Post
    There may be better uses for it than fire wood. Do not denigrate it as fire wood. When we lived in Massachusetts there were winters when I burned nothing but salvaged elm in the fireplace. The heat value is quite good. One man and his sons took down a number of dead elms on my property free! They heated their house with a wood fired hot air furnace in the winter.
    totally agree

  16. #51
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    Default Re: What would you do with this tree?

    Quote Originally Posted by UCanoe_2 View Post
    Please tell me more. What kind of poison?
    Over in Europe we mostly use a Borax solution sprayed on from a pump up bottle. Better bang for your bucks than Cuprinol or some such other marque. Talk with your local timber suppliers to find out what they use, as it somewhat depends on the local critter species.

    Great to see the tree corded and shifted, when it's time for planking please show us some pics!

  17. #52
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    Default Re: What would you do with this tree?

    Quote Originally Posted by lupussonic View Post
    Over in Europe we mostly use a Borax solution sprayed on from a pump up bottle. Better bang for your bucks than Cuprinol or some such other marque. Talk with your local timber suppliers to find out what they use, as it somewhat depends on the local critter species.

    Great to see the tree corded and shifted, when it's time for planking please show us some pics!
    Thanks, I am going to contact the state forestry dept. about some other issues and will ask their recommendations. I don't think the elm will become planking, but probably knees and breasthook for a plywood skiff.
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  18. #53
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    Default Re: What would you do with this tree?

    Here is the butt log of the elm, 7 ft long and 39 in. across at widest point.

    20200506_175911.jpg

    Here is the butt log of the silver maple from the back yard. Maybe there are some spalted table tops inside.

    20200506_175936.jpg

    The 21" diameter black walnut in the background came down yesterday, and we got it bucked up today. No photos yet. Log moving was cut short this afternoon when I caught my finger between a maple log and the loader bucket, and got a humongous blood blister.

    20200506_180334.jpg

    Unfortunately we have lost this 14" ash to emerald ash borers. It is straight for ~16 feet and will become sheerstrakes for my skiff. A nearby ash was treated with IV insecticide 2 years ago and is doing well. Oops, it's in portrait format and did not rotate.

    20200109_165041.jpg
    "George Washington as a boy
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  19. #54
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    Default Re: What would you do with this tree?

    The butt log looks too big for a regular Woodmizer.
    36" under the blade and 28" between the guides,IIRC.
    They build wider ones,but they aren't too common.
    R
    Sleep with one eye open.

  20. #55
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    Default Re: What would you do with this tree?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Williamson View Post
    The butt log looks too big for a regular Woodmizer.
    36" under the blade and 28" between the guides,IIRC.
    They build wider ones,but they aren't too common.
    R
    I was thinking the same thing. Might have to give the end of that a nice haircut with a rip chain on the saw.
    I swear I'm half done.

  21. #56
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    Default Re: What would you do with this tree?

    Yes, it will get a haircut.
    "George Washington as a boy
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    He could not even lie."

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  22. #57
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    Default Re: What would you do with this tree?

    Hooks, pad eyes, and shackles added to loader bucket makes moving logs easier and safer. No connection, but I am a satisfied customer of Ken's Bolt On Hooks. https://www.boltonhooks.com/

    20200515_180324.jpg
    "George Washington as a boy
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    He could not even lie."

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  23. #58
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    Default Re: What would you do with this tree?

    I have a client that will need to build some blocks for a Brig I am designing for him. If you can identify the species of Elm it is and wish to sell some, contact me privately.
    Jay

  24. #59
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    Default Re: What would you do with this tree?

    Jay, I will send you a PM.

    I sent a specimen to the Forest Products Laboratory and got a positive ID of Ulmus rubra, red or slippery elm.

    The log on the front of the tractor is silver maple.
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  25. #60
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    Default Re: What would you do with this tree?

    The logging operation continues, but it was interrupted by several days of rain.

    Here the tree guys are grinding the stump of the big elm. Notice the smiling faces. These guy have fun on the job. The stump grinder is remote controlled by the guy in the green hard hat.

    20200527_095101.jpg
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  26. #61
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    Default Re: What would you do with this tree?

    On Wednesday we felled the ash tree that was killed by emerald ash borers. It's in a tight spot, lying on other downed trees and an old fence. It will be a challenge to get it out...

    20200529_193402.jpg

    ....but worthwhile. The butt log is pretty straight, 14" in diameter, and 17 feet long. There are a couple of smaller logs in the upper branches.

    ash log measured.jpg

    This afternoon I tried to move the butt log from the black walnut. I couldn't lift it with the curl on the loader bucket. If I am reading the manual correctly, that puts the weight at >3600 pounds.

    20200529_174317.jpg

    This is not a tree. The leader of our rodent control plan made an appearance in the back yard last week.

    20200523_133355.jpg
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  27. #62
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    Default Re: What would you do with this tree?

    Even though the tractor could not lift the entire walnut log, I could drag it -- but only in a straight line. It was really reluctant to turn.

    I made a simple sledge from some scrap pressure treated lumber. Shown on the sledge in this photo, but not used in moving the log, are items from the Implements of Destruction collection. These are hand made, forge welded hooks found in an old barn where I used to live. The chain on the right with the long links was also forge welded. The chain on the left might have come from a set of tire chains.

    20200530_180108.jpg

    Here is the log on the sledge, secured with chains and a come-along, ready to be towed by the tractor.

    20200530_183052_Moment.jpg
    "George Washington as a boy
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    He could not even lie."

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  28. #63
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    Default Re: What would you do with this tree?

    Cool project.
    Are you going to mill that last long full length (It does make great fence boards in non-live stock environments)? It looks like the yield (quality/grade/etc) might be higher if split in 2 length wise and the limbs were knocked off. (I did not read the thread just looked at the pictures)
    Milling walnut. I'll cut boards as narrow as 4" and 1/2" thick. It's a useful wood species outside of being visually appealing.
    Skidding tree length with the 3pt hitch lifting from the butt of the log is a lot easier once you get use it. That set up looks painful in the picture (been there). A sacrificial hood from a truck makes a great skidding sled or stone boat.

  29. #64
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    Default Re: What would you do with this tree?

    Quote Originally Posted by raycon View Post
    Cool project.
    Are you going to mill that last long full length (It does make great fence boards in non-live stock environments)? It looks like the yield (quality/grade/etc) might be higher if split in 2 length wise and the limbs were knocked off. (I did not read the thread just looked at the pictures)
    Milling walnut. I'll cut boards as narrow as 4" and 1/2" thick. It's a useful wood species outside of being visually appealing.
    Skidding tree length with the 3pt hitch lifting from the butt of the log is a lot easier once you get use it. That set up looks painful in the picture (been there). A sacrificial hood from a truck makes a great skidding sled or stone boat.
    Raycon, are you saying you use black walnut for fence boards?

    It is a useful species. I once had a log barn made with black walnut sills for rot resistance.

    Skidding like this backing up is not so bad. The distances involved are short, probably 100 yards max.

    I need the mower on the 3 point hitch as a counterweight when lifting with the front end loader. See photos in #57 and #61. I had to lift a couple of logs over the pile to place them where I wanted. Besides, I needed to mow some areas as part of this project, and taking implements on/off the back is a PITA.

    I'm going to consult with the sawmill guy about the best way to cut this up. There may be some nicely figured wood for gun stocks in those crotches.
    "George Washington as a boy
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    He could not even lie."

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  30. #65
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    Default Re: What would you do with this tree?

    I mill a fair amount of walnut.
    Yes people will use it for fence boards(that was my guess why the log was still tree length in the photo), railings, exterior doors , exterior furniture, painted trim, window frames in addition to furniture, flooring etc..Most popular request I get regarding Walnut is wide live edged boards.
    I've never used it for barn sills though. Someday I'll make Maloof style chair or 2 for myself.
    Last edited by raycon; 06-02-2020 at 07:37 PM.

  31. #66
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    Default Re: What would you do with this tree?

    The logging project is moving forward again at last. My chainsaw helper dropped off the radar before cutting was complete, which required me to spend $ for a new chainsaw.

    After skidding out the 14" ash, I found it had fallen on top of a black locust. The locust came down at least 10 years ago, but is still pretty sound. It could be straighter, but I think there are some curved stem pieces inside. The main log is about 12" diameter and 12 feet long. The leftovers will be good firewood.

    Here is a tractor's eye view skidding the log:

    20200702_102002.jpg

    And here, lifting the log onto the pile:

    20200702_110108.jpg

    I also took down a standing dead redbud, about 8" diameter, which you can see in the first picture. Redbud is an understory species here, and 8" diameter is a big tree. There's not really lumber in it, but the grain is pretty and there may be some artsy-craftsy bits of wood.
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  32. #67
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    Default Re: What would you do with this tree?

    I just spent three days sawing and stacking lumber. Here is the Wood Mizer sawing the first log.

    20200731_073200.jpg

    Uh-oh. We struck metal. What is it?

    20200731_080041.jpg

    A shovel blade, of course! In the middle of a 3 foot diameter elm log!

    20200731_083943.jpg

    We concluded that many years ago the shovel broke, and somebody stuck the broken blade in the fork of the young tree. The growing tree completely encapsulated the shovel blade, which we discovered a century later.

    Soon we found the handle end of the shovel, which we did not try to remove from the wood. I'm going to sell it as a sculpture for lots of money. We destroyed three Wood Mizer blades in the course of this project, @ $25. Two more had to be sharpened at $10 each. Sawing your own lumber is not always inexpensive.
    "George Washington as a boy
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  33. #68
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    Default Re: What would you do with this tree?

    Here is the sculpture.

    20200801_174630.jpg

    There is some nice wood in this batch. Mostly elm, with some walnut, ash, maple, and locust. One of the neighbors is a building contractor. When he saw us cutting curved boards and splitting the forks, he commented that most people want straight lumber. Not boatbuilders! These look like elm breasthooks to me.

    20200802_142628.jpg

    There are also some curved 16 foot ash boards that look a lot like sheerstrakes.

    20200802_142712.jpg

    Here are the results of all the labor. I have not yet taken inventory and calculated board feet, but it's a lot! For scale, each stack of lumber is 16 feet long. Also for scale you can see a shovel (not embedded in a log) next to one stack.

    20200802_202317.jpg
    "George Washington as a boy
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    He could not even lie."

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  34. #69
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    Default Re: What would you do with this tree?

    Ouch! A shovel? I've seen maple spouts & parts of buckets - but a shovel?

    Be glad it wasn't a circular saw blade. The teeth alone are $20+ each. That shovel woulda gotten 10 or more.

    Lots of nice wood though!
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

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    Default Re: What would you do with this tree?

    Today I sold the first batch of wood from this project to a local woodturner, whom I contacted through a listing of woodworkers on the state forestry department website. Turners like pieces with interesting grain, that many other woodworkers avoid. The biggest piece was a 14" x 18" x 4'10" hunk of maple that we stopped sawing because of embedded metal. The only "normal" piece was a maple slab for a coffee table top. Otherwise, forks and small stuff that would otherwise be destined for firewood.

    Already I have recovered half the cost of the sawmill operation (but not yet the big bucks for the tree service).
    "George Washington as a boy
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    He could not even lie."

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