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Thread: Bandsawing Rolling Bevels

  1. #1
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    Default Bandsawing Rolling Bevels

    In the Pacific NW Boatshops in the past, and still can be seen, all the bandsaws had a bevel board and a pointer to give a larger readout of the bevel that was being cut. We were always picking up bevels to saw a piece to fit. Additionally there was an arm attached to the underside of the bandsaw table that acted as a tiller to change the bevel angle with ease and control, the knobs that held the trunnion in place were loosened just enough to allow travel, and allowed the tiller operator to see the bevel board.
    Since I work mostly alone in the shop, I needed to be able to cut constantly changing bevels, so I rigged up a 24 volt wheelchair motor and some acme thread rod to be able to change bevel without a second person and a tiller arm.
    Here is the bevel board
    Bandsaw Bevel Board.jpg
    Here is the motor
    Bandsaw Bevel Motor.jpg
    ...and here is how the rotary motor action is changed to moving the bandsaw table
    Bandsaw Bevel Mechanism.jpg
    Here is the up and down control, and potentiometer knob to slow down the movement of the table as needed
    Motor Control.jpg
    ...and I mounted the motor control on a long cord so I could manipulate it while guiding the piece through the saw
    Bevel Control in use.jpg

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Bandsawing Rolling Bevels

    Last picture shows the knee rough cut
    Pram Knee Cut.jpg

    I had a movie of this setup cutting a changing bevel, but I can't find it right now

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Bandsawing Rolling Bevels

    That's cheating, do you not own a spokeshave?

    Nice work and minimum short grain too.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  4. #4
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    Default Re: Bandsawing Rolling Bevels

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    That's cheating, do you not own a spokeshave?

    Nice work and minimum short grain too.
    Cheating-Yup
    Spokeshave-several
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  5. #5
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    Default Re: Bandsawing Rolling Bevels

    Brilliant!
    Please offer more detail about the key components.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Bandsawing Rolling Bevels

    As a rank amateur woodbutcher, all I can say is "WOW" !! Nicely done, Sir

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Bandsawing Rolling Bevels

    Very nice! I've been looking for a way to cut a rolling bevel on a bandsaw single-handed for a while now. I had gone as far as considering a foot pedal with an arm attached to the tilt mechanism but hadn't thought of using a motor. So now I'm thinking that I could build a similar setup but use a stepper motor and an Arduino or Raspberry Pi to control the tilt. And then I could add an optical sensor that would read tick markings on the workpiece so that the tilt speed would match the feed....

    (Yes, I am going a little stir-crazy right now. Other projects I'm thinking about are: building my own rowing machine using a bicycle trainer and making a pinewood derby track in the basement out of leftover pieces of MDF with, yes, an optical finish line sensor/timer. My wife has already had to intervene to keep me from taking down a wall in the basement so I can annex more space for the workshop.)
    - Chris

    Any single boat project will always expand to encompass the set of all possible boat projects.

    Life is short. Go boating now!

  8. #8
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    Default Bandsawing Rolling Bevels

    Talking a shipsaw -- they were purpose built for the job rather than modified bandsaws. The saw frame and blade moved rather than the table. Some of them were big enough that the bottom wheel would be in a pit to put the table at a convenient height. There would be in-/out-feed rollers/conveyors so the [massive] workpiece could be horsed through the saw easily.

    The sawyer would be calling out the bevel for the next station, and the sawyer's helper would be cranking to that bevel as he went.

    The trick was dialing things in so you hit the target bevel when the blade hit the station mark. Teamwork!

    Last edited by Nicholas Carey; 04-11-2020 at 02:34 PM.
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  9. #9
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    Default Re: Bandsawing Rolling Bevels

    I’ll get more details about how this bandsaw works...but my ultimate goal is to do the same technology to make a home grown Shipsaw. I have a 36” beauty still in my trailer, but it takes up too much space in the shop, I am thinking 18”-20”....we shall see.

    As to all the ‘stir crazy’ stirrings, all I can say is that I predict a significant bump in new babies 9 months from now, thankfully my wife and I are well past paying that toll.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Bandsawing Rolling Bevels

    Surely you can get it hooked up with your iPhone and get Siri to change the angle - hands free

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Bandsawing Rolling Bevels

    There was an article in woodenboat magazine about this, oh, maybe 10 years ago. Did you write it, Paul, or was it your set up? ISTR that the tilt motor was controlled by a foot pedal from a sewing machine.
    Steve Martinsen

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    Default Re: Bandsawing Rolling Bevels

    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...56#post5024156

    Is this what you're remembering Steve? Peter put his home made ship saw on this forum in 2016.
    Last edited by Sailor; 04-11-2020 at 08:21 AM.
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  13. #13
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    Default Re: Bandsawing Rolling Bevels

    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...built-ship-saw

    Here's his thread on it from 2006.
    Too bad he's no longer with us, might be nice to get his view on it if one were building one.
    If one advances confidently in the direction of his dreams, and endeavors to live the life which he has imagined, he will meet with a success unexpected in common hours.
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  14. #14
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    Default Re: Bandsawing Rolling Bevels

    That's brilliant, Paul! Does the blade show any tendency to bind as the bevel changes?

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    Default Re: Bandsawing Rolling Bevels

    Speaking of babies, it seems that some singles are wondering if they'll 'ever have sex again!' in the age of viruses: https://theconversation.com/the-safe...-dating-134382
    "Be curious, not judgmental." - (Misattributed to Walt Whitman as recalled by) Ted Lasso

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Bandsawing Rolling Bevels

    Once one has such an arrangement on the saw I imagine many uses would spring to mind. Yours is a nice solution to a boatbuilder's need. As an occasional builder I think I'll stick with my spokeshave. However your oversize support table is well worth contemplating for my own saw!

    Jeff

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Bandsawing Rolling Bevels

    Brilliant!
    Please offer more detail about the key components.

    Here goes with more pictures, first a full view of the old 14" saw, the 2 batteries are below the saw:

    Full View 14%22 Bandsaw.jpg

    The 24 volt Wheelchair Motor is attached via an angle iron fastened to the Bandsaw, and the lower bolt holds the motor to the angle iron and allows motor to pivot.

    Bevel Motor Mounting.jpg

    This shows the motor and the coupling which attaches to the 1" Acme rod. The motor shaft had a keyway, so I had local machinist fab this up

    Bandsaw Bevel Motor.jpg

    This shows the Acme nut pinned to a vertical piece of steel, which in turn is bolted to the far end of the cast table

    Bevel Acme rod:Nut.jpg

    Here is the gray motor control box with Up and Down arrows, behind it is the potentiometer allowing the speed to be way slowed down when cutting a running bevel, behind that is the battery charger, the huge 8D's were take outs from a job, so I needed to keep them charged

    Motor Control.jpg

    ...and on to the next page

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    Default Re: Bandsawing Rolling Bevels

    Pretty damned impressive.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Bandsawing Rolling Bevels

    That is a pretty nifty piece of machinery! A "real" ships saw moves the blade not the table, some fairly big pieces can safely be run through. How big of a piece of work do you think you could run through there before it became too hard to control?
    Steve

    If you would have a good boat, be a good guy when you build her - honest, careful, patient, strong.
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  20. #20
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    Default Re: Bandsawing Rolling Bevels

    Jim Ledger
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    Re: Bandsawing Rolling Bevels

    That's brilliant, Paul! Does the blade show any tendency to bind as the bevel changes?



    The trick is you have to have piece being cut keep moving as you change the bevel, as long as that happens all is good. It's like cutting a tight curve-if you try too tight a curve with moving the piece forward, the blade will bind. You can see the next pictures the size of the throat plate, it's because when I added the 6" height extension, I also added an 1-3/8" spacer to the trunnion, so now the pivot point is no longer the top of the table. This shot also shows the larger table I made, which was to help control a larger piece when cutting a curved running bevel. The material is called Richlite, or Skatelite. It is layers of paper saturated in resin and cured under high pressure making it impervious to moisture penetration. They use it for skateboard ramps, among other things

    Throat Plate.jpg
    Detail of Trunnion Spacer.jpg

    I made the Bevel Control Box to be detachable and on a long cord to be able to have the control where my hands are, and run a longer board. The trick is bumping the Up or Down button while watching both the cut line and what the bevel is

    Bevel Control on Board.jpg

    The last picture is a detail of the bevel board, I need to work on some alignment details. But is was made from a Master Bevel Board, allowing you to scribe the bevel marks at almost any radius.

    Bevel Board Detail.jpg

    Happy to help with any more questions.

    I did not see the Shipsaw article in Woodenboat, I did chance across Peter Sibley's thread on his, but alas it was after all the older pictures had disappeared.

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Bandsawing Rolling Bevels

    Quote Originally Posted by stromborg View Post
    That is a pretty nifty piece of machinery! A "real" ships saw moves the blade not the table, some fairly big pieces can safely be run through. How big of a piece of work do you think you could run through there before it became too hard to control?
    Waiting for the project to come along to find this out! A small sawn frame vessel is on my bucket list before I get too decrepit.

    With something thicker, longer and curvier, it will become necessary to call my wife into action to run the bevel control as it will take two hands to keep the piece from sliding down the table at higher bevels.

    I have a second wheelchair motor and some more acme rod, been noodling on turning an 18"-20" bandsaw into a proper Shipsaw....

  22. #22
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    Default Re: Bandsawing Rolling Bevels

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Donald View Post
    Surely you can get it hooked up with your iPhone and get Siri to change the angle - hands free
    Say, maybe voice control would be the ticket! Then I wouldn't have to pay my wife to run bevels.

    On second thought it might lead to disaster if someone came into the shop and shouted "Hey, you're FORTY-FIVE minutes late!" And the saw goes wild.

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Bandsawing Rolling Bevels

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicholas Carey View Post
    Talking a shipsaw -- they were purpose built for the job rather than modified bandsaws. The saw frame and blade moved rather than the table. Some of them were big enough that the bottom wheel would be in a pit to put the table at a convenient height. There would be in-/out-feed rollers/conveyors so the [massive] workpiece could be horsed through the saw easily.

    The sawyer would be calling out the bevel for the next station, and the sawyer's helper would be cranking to that bevel as he went.

    The trick was dialing things in so you hit the target bevel when the blade hit the station mark. Teamwork!

    [video]https://youtu.be/eM_ahiiFv30[/b]
    When I was an apprentice at Vic Franck's on Lake Union, the Shipsaw was either 42" or 48", the lower wheel went below the shop floor, and the beveling was controlled by an air motor. It was a true Shipsaw where both the top and bottom wheels moved and the pivot point was where the blade and table met. My 36" is technically a Tilting Arbor saw, the pivot point is the center of the lower wheel, so as you crank the bevel the table and the blade move left.

    In practice you don't notice this moving left and right, but if truly heavy pieces were being run it might require more care from the infer man and the outside man.

    Miss those days.

  24. #24
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Schweiss View Post
    When I was an apprentice at Vic Franck's on Lake Union, the Shipsaw was either 42" or 48", the lower wheel went below the shop floor, and the beveling was controlled by an air motor. It was a true Shipsaw where both the top and bottom wheels moved and the pivot point was where the blade and table met. My 36" is technically a Tilting Arbor saw, the pivot point is the center of the lower wheel, so as you crank the bevel the table and the blade move left.

    In practice you don't notice this moving left and right, but if truly heavy pieces were being run it might require more care from the infer man and the outside man.

    Miss those days.

    Northwest Seaport used to have a proper shipsaw like that. Don't know what happened to it when the City built the South Lake Union Park.

    Video of a shipsaw in action (seems I bolluxed it up in my earlier post).

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eM_ahiiFv30
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  25. #25
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    Default Re: Bandsawing Rolling Bevels

    Its a rare bandsaw that will tilt both ways.I do have one myself that will go to 15 degrees negative if I remove a stop pin.Having got the mechanism in place,is there an easy way to synchronise the tilting with the progress of the cut?The comment about using a phone might not be totally flippant as most modern phones can read a barcode or QR code.I have seen the almost CNC hand operated router that uses tape with symbols to locate the machine and,patents permitting,it might be something to investigate.I have an app on my phone that will generate Gcode for engraving text and the file can be sent to the computer that controls my crude CNC router using bluetooth.I can see that you would have to calibrate the tilt mechanism along the way to make it work.

  26. #26
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    Default Re: Bandsawing Rolling Bevels

    Quote Originally Posted by John Meachen View Post
    Its a rare bandsaw that will tilt both ways.I do have one myself that will go to 15 degrees negative if I remove a stop pin.Having got the mechanism in place,is there an easy way to synchronise the tilting with the progress of the cut?The comment about using a phone might not be totally flippant as most modern phones can read a barcode or QR code.I have seen the almost CNC hand operated router that uses tape with symbols to locate the machine and,patents permitting,it might be something to investigate.I have an app on my phone that will generate Gcode for engraving text and the file can be sent to the computer that controls my crude CNC router using bluetooth.I can see that you would have to calibrate the tilt mechanism along the way to make it work.
    I’m sure synchronizing may be possible, but the variations in the severity of the curve being cut, and the spacing of degree changes would make that a challenge.

    I remember running pieces through the Shipsaw with a crew, and chanting “Okay, here is 5 degrees and we’re slowly going to 5-1/2, now 5-1/2 and a little faster to 6, now 6-1/2, now 7 degrees” and so on.

    Man, I really do miss this!

  27. #27
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    Default Re: Bandsawing Rolling Bevels

    I just realized I forgot to mention way above that the 1-3/8” spacer I put on the trunnion was to be able to tilt the table left. This gives me about 22 degrees to the left.
    Last edited by Paul Schweiss; 04-11-2020 at 04:06 PM.

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