Ideas for motor mount retrofit for Caledonia Yawl

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  • nedL
    Senior Member #1976
    • Jul 2000
    • 7544

    #16
    Re: Ideas for motor mount retrofit for Caledonia Yawl

    Here is a bracket I built for a Thompson canoe I used to have. I'm posting these pictures to show how I overcame the torque problem (twisting) that an outboard applies to a bracket. Keep in mind that the lower unit of the outboard is actually trying to twist the bracket (long lever arm). I built the arm off the back of the bracket and diagonal to the base of the mount to address this. This allowed the bracket to be much lighter yet very resistant to that twisting motion. The whole bracket clamped on with two bolts & wing nuts.
    Maybe this will help a bit if you decide to build one yourself.














    Comment

    • realkaykaker
      Member
      • Nov 2017
      • 40

      #17
      Re: Ideas for motor mount retrofit for Caledonia Yawl

      I have a freshwater electric trolling motor that I have used on my CLC Skerry. I mounted it close to the stern with a bracket that is intended for a canoe. This worked well on the Skerry, but I wasn't using it for a sailing auxillary. I was bass fishing in a local pond. I am planning to jury rig the trolling motor on the side of my Caledonia Yawl in the spring to get a sense of how well it pushes the bigger boat and what I have for range. I have considered a salt water trolling motor as auxillary power.

      Bill

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      • Thorne
        Like my hat?
        • Aug 2005
        • 16414

        #18
        Re: Ideas for motor mount retrofit for Caledonia Yawl

        I suspect we've all been assuming you meant a small 2-3.5 hp outboard. Most smaller trolling motors will push your CY around in calm conditions but do next to nothing in gusting winds and strong currents.

        If you really want a trolling motor you should certainly try the one on your Skerry. You could also build a new rudder blade that contains the lower bulb and prop from a larger trolling motor, as this system bypasses the need for any sort of external bracket. These work well for sailing with the rudder blade kicked up enough to get the prop clear of the water, and for motoring with the rudder blade in the down position -- I've seen it done and it is impressive. Wires for power and controls are run up the rudder head and into to boat to the battery and control dial.

        But really, for getting in and out of channels and small harbors, oars will work as well as a trolling motor on something as big and as light as your CY.

        "The enemies of reason have a certain blind look."
        Doctor Jacquin to Lieutenant D'Hubert, in Ridley Scott's first major film _The Duellists_.

        Comment

        • realkaykaker
          Member
          • Nov 2017
          • 40

          #19
          Re: Ideas for motor mount retrofit for Caledonia Yawl

          I should have specified my intent at the begining of this thread. I am trying to decide on a solution that accomodates a 2-3 hp gas outboard. I agree that an electric trolling motor is probably not enough to do the job, but as I already own the electric trolling motor and have not yet purchased a gas motor, it's worth a try. My feeling is that I will need a 2-3 hp gas motor. Perhaps in doing so I will learn something that helps in my efforts to mount a gas motor.

          Bill

          Comment

          • wizbang 13
            Senior Member
            • Oct 2009
            • 24811

            #20
            Re: Ideas for motor mount retrofit for Caledonia Yawl

            What is to stop someone from putting the motor well next to the cb trunk?

            Comment

            • realkaykaker
              Member
              • Nov 2017
              • 40

              #21
              Re: Ideas for motor mount retrofit for Caledonia Yawl

              That is an interesting concept. I guess my first thought is that it would mean lost cockpit space. It would certainly simplify a retrofit. This is an idea worth pondering.

              Bill

              Comment

              • Thorne
                Like my hat?
                • Aug 2005
                • 16414

                #22
                Re: Ideas for motor mount retrofit for Caledonia Yawl

                I think you'll learn a lot more by actually using a small OB on your boat. Why not fab up a clamp-on bracket, borrow a small OB from a friend and see how you like it?

                If considering a well you'll want to address the storage issue, assuming your CY has an afterdeck (photos would help). The main issue is that you'll need a way to lay the outboard down when you don't want it in the well, or want to beach the boat -- even a short shaft OB will hit bottom or obstructions when beaching. And you can't raise the front lip of the well to raise the OB up enough to make a difference -- I know this because I tried, and all it does is fountain up water out of the well and cavitate. Can you build chocks to hold the OB laying down on top of the afterdeck -- that would work if it doesn't interfere with steering or access to the mizzen.

                Due to the decking causing a storage issue a bracket might be a better option, although you'll need to come to grips with the possibility of dunking the OB when on a starboard tack. But a bracket allows you to kick the OB up enough where you should be able to beach the boat without having to remove it from the bracket. Downsides are as mentioned above -- having to lean out to refill fuel tank, reach controls, etc.

                FYI, I find that my 2.5 short shaft Yamaha pushes my CY at just over 5 knots, which is plenty of speed for anything I'll encounter in ordinary sensible boating.


                Originally posted by realkaykaker
                I should have specified my intent at the begining of this thread. I am trying to decide on a solution that accomodates a 2-3 hp gas outboard. I agree that an electric trolling motor is probably not enough to do the job, but as I already own the electric trolling motor and have not yet purchased a gas motor, it's worth a try. My feeling is that I will need a 2-3 hp gas motor. Perhaps in doing so I will learn something that helps in my efforts to mount a gas motor.

                Bill
                "The enemies of reason have a certain blind look."
                Doctor Jacquin to Lieutenant D'Hubert, in Ridley Scott's first major film _The Duellists_.

                Comment

                • Ben Fuller
                  Senior Member
                  • Jan 2000
                  • 4470

                  #23
                  Re: Ideas for motor mount retrofit for Caledonia Yawl

                  A naval arch friend of mine has run some numbers using larger trolling motors for row/ sail. An 80 lb troller would do nicely, every thing a 2 hp gas motor would do. The commercial lithium battery motors are in the 70-80 range. Advantage of the troller is that it is about half the weight of a gas motor so mounting and demounting isn't a problem way. If you use a troller in a well, the well needs a different shape: they have long skinny motors and larger diameter props than do gas engines. The bigger trollers are going to need 24 volt. If I was looking at a mount for my double ended Harrier I'd go with a side mount as far aft as I could get it with the prop not hitting the rudder. I'd use the mount for some sculling oar locks and to support my boomkin for which I have a short cross beam now.
                  Ben Fuller
                  Ran Tan, Liten Kuhling, Tipsy, Tippy, Josef W., Merry Mouth, Imp, Macavity, Look Far, Flash and a quiver of other 'yaks.
                  "Bound fast is boatless man."

                  Comment

                  • realkaykaker
                    Member
                    • Nov 2017
                    • 40

                    #24
                    Re: Ideas for motor mount retrofit for Caledonia Yawl

                    I can't seem to find a good picture of the aft deck that does'nt have my wife sitting on it. I guess I've just identified another problem with installing a motor well there. My CY does have an afterdeck. I envision laying the motor on the floor, perhaps sliding it under the center thwart. I would have to provide a suitable way to secure it there. Not ideal as it will be a place to bark shins.

                    Bill

                    Comment

                    • realkaykaker
                      Member
                      • Nov 2017
                      • 40

                      #25
                      Re: Ideas for motor mount retrofit for Caledonia Yawl

                      Ben, I've looked at and admired the Torqueedo outboards. Are these the motors you are referring to? They come with a nice storage case and you don't have to worry about laying them down on the right side. I worry about the day coming when you can't get a replacement for the proprietary battery though. If I was going to go electric, it would have to be with a standard marine battery. Comparing weight of the small "Travel 503" Torqueedo and a long shaft 2.3 hp honda, their pretty close. The Torqueedo is approximately 30lbs and the honda is 31 lb (dry weight). I have to say that the price tag of the Torqueedo is a little steep as well.

                      Bill

                      Comment

                      • Ben Fuller
                        Senior Member
                        • Jan 2000
                        • 4470

                        #26
                        Re: Ideas for motor mount retrofit for Caledonia Yawl

                        Originally posted by realkaykaker
                        Ben, I've looked at and admired the Torqueedo outboards. Are these the motors you are referring to? They come with a nice storage case and you don't have to worry about laying them down on the right side. I worry about the day coming when you can't get a replacement for the proprietary battery though. If I was going to go electric, it would have to be with a standard marine battery. Comparing weight of the small "Travel 503" Torqueedo and a long shaft 2.3 hp honda, their pretty close. The Torqueedo is approximately 30lbs and the honda is 31 lb (dry weight). I have to say that the price tag of the Torqueedo is a little steep as well.

                        Bill
                        Yes, the two that are on the market are the Torqeedo and the Spirit. The advantage of the electrics is that you can remove the battery when carrying them so that you only have to deal with about 15 pounds. For standard motors the Minn Kota has been around the longest and are the least expensive. The Minn Kota Riptide is their salt water model and they do make an 80lb trust version. There are some interesting batteries falling in between lead acid and lithium called Firefly. They can be discharged much further than lead acid. People called Ocean Planet in Portland have them and have a lot of information on charging, solar panels etc. My NA friend uses an 80 pound thrust Minn Kota to move a boat about twice the weight of the Caledonia. Thirty pounds weight is max for civilized lifting; in the old two stroke days you could get a 4-5 horse that weighed that which is what I had for my 18' catboat. Not today,
                        Ben Fuller
                        Ran Tan, Liten Kuhling, Tipsy, Tippy, Josef W., Merry Mouth, Imp, Macavity, Look Far, Flash and a quiver of other 'yaks.
                        "Bound fast is boatless man."

                        Comment

                        • rgthom
                          Senior Member
                          • Apr 2010
                          • 3197

                          #27
                          Re: Ideas for motor mount retrofit for Caledonia Yawl

                          I just noticed a useful article in the recent issue of Small Craft Advisor (No. 122). Michael Jostock shows how he mounted a Torqeedo in a well using a home built retractable mount. It looks very neat, and needs no additional deck space to store the raised motor. Take a look if you have a copy.

                          My own experiment in electric propulsion is coming together. In a week or so I should have an EP Carry outboard motor running on my Walkabout. The Walkabout is quite a bit lighter than a CY, but maybe I could get together with Thorne and see how this would drive his CY.

                          Comment

                          • realkaykaker
                            Member
                            • Nov 2017
                            • 40

                            #28
                            Re: Ideas for motor mount retrofit for Caledonia Yawl

                            I think of manhandling the motor aft to some sort of mounting bracket. Can the Torqueedo be placed and removed without the battery? I think placing the motor is when I would be most concerned with the weight.

                            Haven't seen the most recent Small Craft Advisor yet. I should subscribe instead of waiting for it to show up on the newstand.

                            Bill

                            Comment

                            • Ben Fuller
                              Senior Member
                              • Jan 2000
                              • 4470

                              #29
                              Re: Ideas for motor mount retrofit for Caledonia Yawl

                              Originally posted by realkaykaker
                              I think of manhandling the motor aft to some sort of mounting bracket. Can the Torqueedo be placed and removed without the battery? I think placing the motor is when I would be most concerned with the weight.

                              Haven't seen the most recent Small Craft Advisor yet. I should subscribe instead of waiting for it to show up on the newstand.

                              Bill
                              I routinely take the battery off to move my Torqueedo around. In fact the boat lives on the mooring and the battery goes home for a recharge. That is one of the nice things. Problem with any bigger batteries when you live on a mooring is charging them. So you learn about solar panels. Not an issue for a trailer boat. For my old Johnson on my cat boat I had fitted blocks for it to lay on under a cockpit seat.
                              Ben Fuller
                              Ran Tan, Liten Kuhling, Tipsy, Tippy, Josef W., Merry Mouth, Imp, Macavity, Look Far, Flash and a quiver of other 'yaks.
                              "Bound fast is boatless man."

                              Comment

                              • rgthom
                                Senior Member
                                • Apr 2010
                                • 3197

                                #30
                                Re: Ideas for motor mount retrofit for Caledonia Yawl

                                Originally posted by realkaykaker
                                Ben, I've looked at and admired the Torqueedo outboards. Are these the motors you are referring to? They come with a nice storage case and you don't have to worry about laying them down on the right side. I worry about the day coming when you can't get a replacement for the proprietary battery though. If I was going to go electric, it would have to be with a standard marine battery. Comparing weight of the small "Travel 503" Torqueedo and a long shaft 2.3 hp honda, their pretty close. The Torqueedo is approximately 30lbs and the honda is 31 lb (dry weight). I have to say that the price tag of the Torqueedo is a little steep as well.

                                Bill
                                Does a Torqeedo motor have to use a Torqeedo battery? The EP Carry motor I'm getting was ordered without battery. I will supply my own 24V LiFePO4 from another source, a bigger battery than the usual one supplied but separate from the 14 lb motor. Lithium batteries are becoming more available and lower cost, and lead acid is always an option.

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