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Thread: Have I picked the right boat?

  1. #36
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    Default Re: Have I picked the right boat?

    Chris

    Good questions and I feel like I have plenty to say. I am in the middle of cooking right now. I will reply fully tomorrow.

    Graham

  2. #37
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    Default Re: Have I picked the right boat?

    Graham, count me among the very interested! Your boat is a beauty. In addition to Chris's questions, I'd be curious to know:
    1) What wind speeds cause you to reef, and if reefing is easy underway
    2) What wind speeds cause you to head for shore / stay ashore
    2) Your use - do you daysail? Camp ashore? Camp aboard?
    3) If you've ever capsized or had her near a capsize, and how recovery went
    4) Your impression of the available storage space.
    5) Your choice of auxiliary propulsion and how happy you are with that option
    6) How many people is "just right" for a daysail? How many people is too many?
    7) Your experience sourcing the cast iron centerboard, if you elected to use it. Would you consider a wood board? I've talked to Vivier about this and he was encouraging.

    Can't wait to hear more.

    James

  3. #38
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    Default Re: Have I picked the right boat?

    Chris and James,

    I will attempt to answer your questions.

    I am 55, started sailing well into my 40s. I am an RYA Yachtmaster offshore and cruising instructor. I am an OK sailor but am very aware that I still have a lot to learn and I will never be as good as those people who sailed all their life.

    The Stir Ven 19 was the third boat that I built.

    First boat was a Iain Oughtred Puffin from a kit. A 10' sailing dinghy.

    Second an Oughtred Stickleback canoe from blueprints for my wife Mary.

    The Stir Ven 19 was from a kit.

    I always raise the mast on my own even if there are willing helpers around. You put the butt end of the mast in the socket at deck level then just walk forward raising it above your head as you go, pivoting in the socket. It is moderately committing and I warn anyone around that although I have never dropped it yet they should be aware that they could be in the firing line. there is a semi circular cut out in the partner, when it's vertical there is a lashing right at the partner that keeps it in place while you attach the shrouds. Overall raising the mast is not something that you should be concerned about.

    The boat took me just over two years to build, my guesstimate is about 1200 hours. I put the laid deck on it and floorboards, both of which are optional, which added some time. I also spent plenty of time pondering how the hell I was going to do whatever the next bit coming up was. I could probably cut 40% of the time taken if I had to start from scratch again.

    After previous builds using Iain Oughtred's beautiful blueprints, Francois' booklets with colour CAD drawings felt odd initially but the process went fine. I was the first builder in English and he translated the instructions when I bought the plans. The English translation is not perfect but I could always work out what was being conveyed so not a problem. And of course I have to add that his English is a million times better than my French. The main booklet ends with the basic hull complete. You can work out how to finish and rig it by looking at the various drawings and pictures supplied as part of the pack.

    Francois is very good with email support. He normally gets back to me within a day or two occasionally a week or two if he is away. I emailed him with questions a couple of dozen times during the build and he was always willing to help out.

    Yes I would say that it is pretty fast. I don't have much experience with closely comparable boats but I am impressed and happy with the performance. It was after all designed to be competitive in sail and oar events so it should be.

    It's a lovely boat to sail.

    My intended use was a boat that I could coastal cruise and camp in. My thinking was the biggest boat possible, better speed, safety, comfort, load carrying but still able to row and still able to live on the trailer. I would say that this boat is exactly that. Even the Stir Ven 22 is too big and heavy to meet the "still able to row and live on the trailer".

    The other boat that was a contender was the Ebihen 16.

    Reefing

    In our first season with a combination of luck and design we did not experience anything particularly strong and only went to the first reef in anger.

    When I got the sails made Dick at R & J Sails (highly recommended http://www.rjsails.co.uk/) got back to me and said "you really need a third reef on that thing" I took him up on his advice so we have a third reef in our main.

    I set up the reefing with hooks at the gooseneck and lines from the boom, up to the cringle in the leach of the sail and back down to the comb. I made a mistake stopping them there because when you sail on the jib and ease the main or heave too when you go to reef, you can't reach the end at the comb to pull forward the reefing line to pull down the clew.
    I am going to re set up the reefing inspired by a Cornish Shrimpers setup using clam cleats, page 21 on this pdf: http://www.shrimperowners.org/sitefi...ng%20Notes.pdf we will see how it goes.

    Reefing itself is easy enough, drop the two halyards a few arm fulls, dropping the gaff via the peak halyard does a great job of depowering the main. Pull in the reef lines, back up on the throat halyard then peak halyard.

    I was having some trouble reefing without a topping lift and I asked Francois about it and he said he dropped the boom to the deck when reefing his Stir Ven 22 but I could not make it work easily so I put a topping lift on the port side only which makes reefing and motoring/rowing easier when the sail is down.

    As I have no instruments on the boat and no plans to get any, so I can't tell you what wind speed reefs are needed to be put in. It does have a lot of sail area but the centreboard is pretty beefy too which helps out.

    I have never come close to capsizing. There is a cleat that holds the centreboard out to make it easier in this case but will unhitch if you hit something while sailing. There's no doubt it's quite a big boat to get back upright, not a nice thought and yes I should do some practice on this.

    There is tons of storage. Even the outboard fits inside a locker along with its fuel and oil with space to spare. You can fit 3.3m oars under the side decks.

    I have a Yamaha 2.5hp long shaft outboard, it has been reliable, quiet, very good. There is enough power from this as far as I am concerned, it pushes it along happily at half revs. I would not fancy its chances against a strong wind or big sea but I guess if there is strong wind you will be sailing and if there is a big sea you shouldn't have gone sailing. A couple of things you should be aware of: The cut out in the transom is very neat except, like most small outboards, to get reverse you spin the whole engine around 180 degrees so the prop is pointing the other way. And when you go to turn the outboard it hits the edges of the transom cut out. So reverse is not available unless you have a reverse gear on your outboard. The second thing is that I have been having a problem with prop ventilation. The prop is close to the surface and if too much weight is forward the prop sucks air and loses all grip on the water and therefore thrust. It's a bit disconcerting approaching the dock, someone goes forward to attach a bow line and you lose all power. I am going to take professional advice on this, maybe a different angle or prop pitch change will fix it. I intend to use the oars more when docking, it would be a better solution.

    Crew numbers. Three of us competed in Sail Caledonia last year (http://www.sailcaledonia.org/page5.html we appear from time to time in the 2019 link) and it was agreed that with three on the boat everyone felt that they had plenty of room, I would say that four would start to get a bit cramped. We once had two adults and three kids and it was OK. It is certified up to five. During Sail Caledonia we camped ashore. As for camping onboard there is plenty of room for a single either side of the centreboard case both in width and length, the thwarts lift out, they are not structural and function just as seats.

    I went with the cast iron centreboard. I made a pattern out of ply, car body filler and alphabet pasta for some lettering. I tried to get it cast locally but was quoted over 2k euro (you can buy the finished article for about that from Grand Largue). I found a foundry in Derbyshire in the UK that would cast it for 500 quid so couriered it to them then went over on the ferry with the car to pick it up. I was concerned about drilling the hole in the horn but it turns out cast iron drill easily. The foundry added a core for the hole for the pivot pin, the resulting hole was a bit messy and I cleaned it up as best I could with the hand tools I had available. Crucially the pin that goes through the hole is a couple of mm smaller diameter than the hole, I did check this with Francois to be sure, so as long as the centreboard can pivot smoothly on the pin the hole does not need to be exquisite, which mine surely isn't. It works fine but it is quite a beast and you have to really lean into the line that hoists it even with a 5 to one purchase.

    If Francois says weighted wooden board would work OK I would trust him, especially if using water ballast. But it would have to be a bit more of a hand full. I do like having the cast iron centreboard especially when a few miles off shore. It was a great project that I am proud of and I am glad that I took it on.

    So overall I have no doubts that I have built the right boat for me, if I lost it somehow I would build the same boat again.

    I have to go out for a bit now but later I will post some pics and if you have more questions please go ahead.

    Graham

  4. #39
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    Default Re: Have I picked the right boat?

    Some pics of my Stir Ven 19


    The turn over party
    5-turn.jpg

    making the centreboard pattern
    7-DSC_1435.jpg

    At the foundry, the 125kg centreboard being fork lifted into my car.
    DSC_1564.jpg

    test rigging before first launch
    1-IMG-20190329-WA0014.jpg

    Maiden voyage
    3-IMG_5614.jpg

  5. #40
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    Default Re: Have I picked the right boat?

    Close reaching towards Hook Head late last summer

    https://photos.app.goo.gl/YDjrevQi8kKKy8R28



    Graham

  6. #41
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    Default Re: Have I picked the right boat?

    Nice sail setting....and looks great with a clear finish. Jobs a cracker!

  7. #42
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    Default Re: Have I picked the right boat?

    Thanks for the long and detailed answer Graham, it is very helpful.

    I see that your intended use is similar to what I am looking for and it is good to hear that the design meets your expectations.
    I think I will order the study plans today and have a closer look at it.

    I will probably come back with some further questions down the line.

    I am have been living in Estonia the last years and they don't have the same boat culture that I am used to from back in Norway here. It was basically non existent during the Soviet era, but it is slowly picking up now that the purchasing power is getting higher. But it is not far from Finland where I am sure I can find some good sail makers.

    The reason i discovered these small cafts was through participation in RAID Finland in 2018 and 2019. I basically grew up on a 30 feet sailboat and was also sailing dinghies as a kid. But participating in the RAID got my sailing bug back.

    You have done a great job with your boat looks beautiful.
    Had a look at the sail Caledonia gallery too.

    Chris

  8. #43
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    Default Re: Have I picked the right boat?

    Chris, there are some very reasonable sail lofts in Poland, not too far from you.

  9. #44
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    Default Re: Have I picked the right boat?

    Thanks for the info. I will definitely reach out to you when I am a bit further in this process of deciding which design to go for.
    It seems like you have a pretty good overview of where to source things from in Northen Europe and I am trying to keep the cost of a project like this within reason and working in Estonia means that I can't compete with the salaries in western Europe.
    Using birch ply should help out as far as I have gathered.

    I have also been in touch with Salmo boats as I have seen your posts about those boats before, but I do like the design of Viviers boats more.

    My wildcard of a design is Welsford AWOL as I am looking for a fun and fast cruiser I could camp in and it should maybe be a bit lower building cost for this boat. The only thing I need to look up here is if it is enough space for me to sleep in it, I am 1,91 cm.
    I have narrowed it down to Stir-Ven 19 and AWOL now just waiting for some feedback form John Welsford on an email I sent him with a few questions.

    Chris
    Last edited by Chris Narum; 03-20-2020 at 03:11 PM.

  10. #45
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    Default Re: Have I picked the right boat?

    Cheers Ian

    Graham

  11. #46
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    Default Re: Have I picked the right boat?

    Thanks Chris

    Seeing pictures of Raid Finland was an inspiration for me to get to where I am now, it looks like a great event.

    I hear you on the difficulty of sourcing materials for this kind of boat in Estonia, it can be difficult here in Ireland too. There was the centreboard casting but also I had to get the kit made in the UK (Alec at https://jordanboats.co.uk/JB/index.htm), the sails, the bronze stem fitting and spinnaker iron and much of the wood all came from the UK or further afield. If you are spending hundreds or thousands of euro on an item the additional 50 euro for the courier is not too painful and the internet is makes finding suppliers so much easier than in the past.

    Incidentally I wanted to mention that launching and retrieving off the trailer on my own is not a problem. If I had other people there it made it easier but was totally doable if it was just me.

    I am happy to talk about any aspect of building and owning the boat as long as you keep in mind that it would be my opinion and that there could be alternative and better ways of doing things.

    Graham

  12. #47
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    Default Re: Have I picked the right boat?

    Raid Finland is a great event, although it has slowed down a bit the last years compared to how it used to be. Everyone is getting older and we have to cater for that, I am one of the youngest participants at 37.
    So nowadays we have a base camp where we stay the whole week.

    Great to have you as a resource as well if I decide on Stir-Ven.

    Now it is time to make a decision so the building can begin.

    Chris

  13. #48
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    Default Re: Have I picked the right boat?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Narum View Post

    I have also been in touch with Salmo boats as I have seen your posts about those boats before, but I do like the design of Viviers boats more.

    Chris
    Honest boats is how i would describe them and fit for purpose. Vivier boats certainly have some more artistic flair, and it does show.
    I come very close to building the Salmo 18T, but the client pulled out. A nice boat..







    It does not take much detailing to lift the overall feel of the boat, i think.

  14. #49
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    Default Re: Have I picked the right boat?

    It is a very nice looking boat this one and one I have considered.

    The only thing I don't like about it is that it looks a bit top heavy, but this is probably what makes it so spacious.
    Certainly a better fit for the wallet as his kits are quite reasonably priced.

    You are probably right that it is possible to detail it a bit too, to lift the overall feel of the boat.
    I guess this boat would also serve my purpose, looks very handy with the dodger on it, but I guess it might not be as fast as Stir-Ven, but I am no expert on these type of boats. What are your thoughts on how this hull will perform?
    My first thoughts would be that it is quite a safe and sturdy boat that could deal with different conditions as seen with his Salmo 15 and their trip along the coast in Norway.

    Would you say it is similar to Welsford's Pathfinder perhaps, although a bit longer?

    What was you customers intended use for this boat and what brought you to this design?

    Maybe I have to reconsider it as I guess this will be a faster, easier and cheaper build, that could get me out sailing sooner which is the main idea.

    Chris


    Quote Originally Posted by skaraborgcraft View Post
    Honest boats is how i would describe them and fit for purpose. Vivier boats certainly have some more artistic flair, and it does show.
    I come very close to building the Salmo 18T, but the client pulled out. A nice boat..







    It does not take much detailing to lift the overall feel of the boat, i think.
    Last edited by Chris Narum; 03-20-2020 at 03:16 PM.

  15. #50
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    Default Re: Have I picked the right boat?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Narum View Post
    What are your thoughts on how this hull will perform?
    My first thoughts would be that it is quite a safe and sturdy boat that could deal with different conditions as seen with his Salmo 15 and their trip along the coast in Norway.

    Would you say it is a bit similar to Welsford's Pathfinder perhaps, although a bit longer?

    What was you customers intended use for this boat and what brought you to this design?

    Maybe I have to reconsider it as I guess this will be a faster, easier and cheaper build that could get me out sailing soon which is the main idea.

    Chris
    I think there would not be much performance difference in many dayboats this size, though i think Johns AWOL has flatter aft sections that allow it to plane in the right conditions, if you want that kind of performance, some do not. Similar to Pathfinder yes, different build method, slightly heavier and more beam, and a single mast.

    The chap wanted a boat safe for coastal use in the Baltic, with his family. I had originally put Johns 6M Whaler forward as an option, as he was used to double ended boats, but i also gave him details of the T18 as it had a better sleeping situation as designed. As often the case, some details on both boats were good but in different designs. Both boats have good freeboard, and though you rightly say it might look a bit top heavy, it does good give spray protection and interior volume if you are camping onboard. As you noticed, kit prices for this boat are competitive also.

    Stir Ven is a looker for sure, but its twice the weight of Pathfinder, almost 250kg heavier than the T18, and so has a bigger sail area. All those little increases end up costing money.

  16. #51
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    Default Re: Have I picked the right boat?

    Quote Originally Posted by skaraborgcraft View Post
    I think there would not be much performance difference in many dayboats this size, though i think Johns AWOL has flatter aft sections that allow it to plane in the right conditions, if you want that kind of performance, some do not. Similar to Pathfinder yes, different build method, slightly heavier and more beam, and a single mast.

    The chap wanted a boat safe for coastal use in the Baltic, with his family. I had originally put Johns 6M Whaler forward as an option, as he was used to double ended boats, but i also gave him details of the T18 as it had a better sleeping situation as designed. As often the case, some details on both boats were good but in different designs. Both boats have good freeboard, and though you rightly say it might look a bit top heavy, it does good give spray protection and interior volume if you are camping onboard. As you noticed, kit prices for this boat are competitive also.

    Stir Ven is a looker for sure, but its twice the weight of Pathfinder, almost 250kg heavier than the T18, and so has a bigger sail area. All those little increases end up costing money.
    Salmo_18-T_ark-2-page-001.jpgSalmo_18-T_general-data-page-001.jpg
    Salmo_18-T_ark-1-page-001.jpg

  17. #52
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    Default Re: Have I picked the right boat?

    You guys are messing with my mind! I am always in pursuit of "the perfect boat". I have a long list of possibles, a short list genuine contenders and a large collection of study plans. The Stir Ven 19 has been on my contender list for a while. It was top of this list for some time but it has slipped a bit in favour of Ebihen 16 or Beg Meil, recently (I am a big fan of Francois Vivier's and I have an Aber, already). The problem is that having read everything you have written about Stir Ven 19 and seen the pics, I am going to have to reconsider that one, again. Actually, in some ways I hope that I never find "the perfect boat" as I would then have to stop looking for it.

  18. #53
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    ^ LOL.....this place can be a blessing and also at curse at times.....i have been down a similar path, thought i had found the perfect design, and then someone posts a picture of another boat that looks like nirvana all over again! Theres just so many nice boats out there.....

  19. #54
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    Default Re: Have I picked the right boat?

    I agree, you think you have finally settled for a design and then you come on here and get all confused again.

    But I am very glad for your input and you bring up some good points that makes me think if Salmo 18T should get another round of consideration.
    I like the shape of the pathfinder a bit more and I think it is because it has some shape/curves to it, the 18-t has a bit more of a boxy look if you get what I mean.
    It is probably very a spacious and practical, should be fairly straight forward to build with the stitch and glue construction.
    I am sure it will be hard to beat on value for money.

    I added a link to the pdf files of the drawings so you can get a better impression than from the pictures I uploaded earlier if anyone are interested.
    https://drive.google.com/drive/folde...Kc?usp=sharing

  20. #55
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    Default Re: Have I picked the right boat?

    I have been thinking about this conundrum and wanted to add a couple of things:

    The Stir Ven 19 is quite flat bottomed compared to Vivier's other designs, this obviously has some performance advantages but as all engineering is a compromise, it has drawbacks too. There is no keel or any kind of ridge running along the bottom of the boat, there is a flat sole board that is about 350mm wide at the centreboard slot. This means that the boat can dry out flat which is great but it also means that there is very little resistance to the boat being blown sideways when the centreboard is up. This is not an issue when sailing but inevitably makes manoeuvring around a dock more concentrating than a deeper hulled boat.

    It also has a taller mast, a bigger mainsail, hefty centreboard, all of which are there to increase performance at the expense of workload, maybe stress and certainly cost. All of the above is why the Ebihen 16 was on my shortlist, I think that it would be a similar experience to the Stir Ven 19 but with everything a bit smaller, easier, more comfortable but with a bit less performance. Hmmmm, I probably should not think about it too much.

    Also the boat is self draining which is great but that means the floors have to be above waterline level which takes 300mm or so of depth from an already shallow hull plus an extra 30mm for the floorboards, you end up sitting quite high in the boat, you don't get that more cosy, secure feeling of sitting in a deep hull.

    If the budget at this point in you life is constrained it has to be said that the Stir Ven 19 has to be a bigger commitment than some of the other designs mentioned in this thread. As far as I can see boat builds never work out less expensive than expected, they always cost more to a greater or lesser degree. Committing to a build and realising part way through that it is going to seriously strain your finances is not conducive to a happy life.

    I would say that you could have a great time and some great adventures whatever boat you build and a few years down the line you can build another by which time your "perfect boat" may have changed again.

    Thanks to everybody for this thread, it is helping me get my thoughts together.


    Graham

  21. #56
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    Graham—
    Interesting to hear your thoughts of the small Stir Ven. Vivier designed his Jewell around the same time, starting with his original 22’ Stir Ven re-imagined for coastal cruising. The Jewell has a very similar hull to the SV19, but with a ballasted box keel and ballasted, wooden NACA foiled CB (30kg) instead of water ballast and enormously heavy iron board. The yawl rig lowers the spar heights and spreads the rig out, and I expect the combination of lighter board and lower rig will make the Jewell less athletic to sail. The Jewell shares a self draining cockpit, and I have wondered how difficult it would be for builders to modify the coaming to create a bit more shelter, especially toward the cabin.
    16203512-ED47-4077-8C30-96524B17E614.jpg
    Your point about build complexity is well taken, with the Jewell’s decks and sitting height cabin increasing the expense and labor of the construction, not to mention the extra work of the ballasted box keel.
    I think the Ebihen 16 would be a very big boat for its given dimensions, and surely a less costly build than the SV 19; whether it could accommodate Chris’ family as the kids get older as well as the 19....
    Thanks very much for sharing your experiences with the SV19, your boat is a very lovely example.

  22. #57
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    Grahm I rather like John Hartmann's boat shown above! It seems to offer all of the prerequisites for a nice compact crusiner that can offer both the adventure of crusing in comfort as well as being a smart sailor! Just big enough but not too big! I has room for a small combination cooking and heating stove such as a solid fuel burning stove. Fatsco makes several that are ideal for a small boat if you choose one the such as John's. I have one for my H28 ketch as well as one for my drafting room at home. Originally designed over a hundred years ago to keep milk from freezing in horse drawn delivery trucks these little wonders are still keeping all maner of houses,
    shops and boats toasty and dry as they have done in the past. I mentioned several books by L. Francis Herreshoff here in post #9 If you find you like them, you might seek out his two volume treatis on practical boating in general as it goes into a lot of areas in depth from designing, building and sailing. Many of us refer to it as "The Sacred Writings" though written in another century it still rings true with simplicity and wisdom for the boat enthusiast. The Common Sense of Yacht Design is one book that many of us treasure above all others! Now combined into one volume the book is a classic!
    Jay
    https://www.amazon.com/Common-Sense-.../dp/B00A3LXHWO
    https://www.abebooks.com/book-search...or/herreshoff/
    Last edited by Jay Greer; 03-21-2020 at 12:50 PM.

  23. #58
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    Default Re: Have I picked the right boat?


    Marianita, an Oughtred Eun Mara is just a hair longer than Jewell but with very different accommodations, less cockpit, more cabin. Works for me most of the time as I rarely have crew but the cockpit does get crowded pretty fast.

    As I read through the thread and the back and forth about open-vs-cabin boats I couldn't help but think about how having that cabin has extended my sailing season. For example, we (yes, I actually got my wife to come out sailing!) were out yesterday afternoon, air temp in the upper 50s water in the low to mid 50s like it always is but we could duck down behind that cabin and soak up the warmth of an early spring sun, it was quite comfortable. Outside of that little shelter it was quite a bit cooler. Was it Mark Twain who said the coldest winter he had seen was a summer in San Francisco?
    Steve

    If you would have a good boat, be a good guy when you build her - honest, careful, patient, strong.
    H.A. Calahan

  24. #59
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    ^ Nice! Probably a crew member count thing, but a family of 4 would make that cockpit a place uncomfortable to be, but im with you on the cabin and extended season.......but some people may only use a boat for 6 weeks of the year in the summer, and so camping under a boom tent might not be such an issue. I just like having a berth handy that i can just throw myself into without any effort. Certainly more "mini-cruiser" than "dinghy-cruiser".

  25. #60
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    John

    Thank you for your kind words about my Stir Ven 19.

    I can look at your Jewell picture and see the similarity between it and the hull of the Stir Ven 19. And with the amount of sail area it has I am sure it would go like the clappers. The weigh is creeping up though, 690kg ready to sail with minimum kit, I guarantee that it would be well over 700kg once you are actually there ready to go, at what point do we reach the limit of "small and light enough to row". I could spend some time daydreaming about a Stir Ven 19 open with a rig like the Jewell's.

    My thinking on the cabin thing is that on a small boat with a cabin you end up with a pretty small open area for sailing and a fairly minimal cabin too. A boom tent has many drawbacks but you do end up with as much room as possible when sailing and for accommodation, once you have the tent up. I had planned to take some longer trips this summer to see how it all worked out but that looks in doubt now.

    I do have a couple of issues with cabins that are specific to me. I live in Ireland and although it is lovely it does rain quite a bit. I can imagine that keeping the cabin dry and mildew free could be a problem here. Also I think that I would be likely to treat it like a big locker and end up filling it with stuff that probably shouldn't be there.

    I think that it is worth considering that there are plenty people dinghy cruising around the place that would consider an Ilur an over the top, massive, luxury cruising boat.

    Planning to build a boat for your family's future is a noble thing to do but we all know that the future has no compunction to stick to the plan but I suppose we have little choice but to give it our best shot.

    After launching the Stir Ven 19 I made an Iain Oughtred Wee Rob canoe and it is a lovely day here so I am going to take it ten minutes away to the River Slaney for a paddle. It's very peaceful, full of wildlife and almost deserted of people.

    Graham

    DSC_1418.jpg

  26. #61
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
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    Default Re: Have I picked the right boat?

    Yes, Graham, I have thought an open Stir Ven 19 would be a very nice camp cruiser set up with unstayed masts and a lug yawl rig. I agree that a cabin boat is one more set of balancing trade offs; the Jewell has a minimal cabin and cockpit prioritized as a day boat big enough for a moderate mob, but as Ian says, a dry bunk ready and waiting, and a place to make a cup of tea out of the weather without setting up the boomtent is an attractive notion. I have rowed an Ilur full of gear 20 miles at a time.....that was a long day for sure! The Jewell and small Stir Ven are big enough that I don’t think rowing any distance is really an option; maybe a well set up yuloh would be a worthy experiment.
    Your Wee Rob is as pretty as the Stir Ven! Have a fine day of it.

  27. #62
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    Default Re: Have I picked the right boat?

    I was considering the same thing, but its only +4, and it was -5 last night, but im itching to get afloat already.

    With the cabin issue,there really are some smart "soft cabins", basically sprayhoods with extensions and fold down flaps, that are semi permenent or quick to set up. No reason for a small cabin to turn into a mushroom farm given proper ventilation, and stowage is a thing of discipline.......its always to easy to "just chuck it in there..." because there is space, and having to empty a small cabin to use it, defeats the object. I met a chap quite content cruising some backwaters on an old wooden Potter and it seemed the key was organization and discipline, the cabin was tight, but cosy. The other issue with tents was one of windage, and where you expect to stop for overnights, that could change the parameters depending on location and use.




  28. #63
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
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    Bainbridge Island WA
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    Default Re: Have I picked the right boat?


    I rather enjoy not having to unpack a drybag or galley box every time I want a cup of tea. +1 for cabins!

    Marianita has been in water for almost 5 years now here in the Pacific Northwest (AKA The Greyt Northwet) where we have weather very similar to Scotland, subject to being a bit dreary for 9 months of the year with 3 glorious one making up for it. I keep her well ventilated and haven't had any issues with mold or mildew- well, there was that hunk of Port Townsend Creamery cheese I forgot was staying cool in the bilge last fall, but that was pretty well localized.

    The cockpit size has led me to counsel a few folks away from the Eun Mara, she is definitely a one or two person pocket cruiser. An enterprising builder could I suppose shift the cabin forward, up against the tabernacle and gain about 12" of cockpit space without compromising much of the interior.
    Steve

    If you would have a good boat, be a good guy when you build her - honest, careful, patient, strong.
    H.A. Calahan

  29. #64
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Location
    Wexford, Ireland.
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    13

    Default Re: Have I picked the right boat?

    John

    I agree rowing the Stir Ven 19 or similar is always going to be very compromised. I suppose what "able to row" to me means a boat that you can get off a dock or marina to the point of raising sails and row a few miles in zero wind if you have to. We rowed the Stir Ven 19 from time to time in Sail Caledonia last year, the furthest we rowed was a 12km race along the canal. That was OK and we kept up about 3kts I think and could have gone much further if we needed to but into waves and/or tide forget it. A boat that is good to row would be so much smaller, lighter and narrower that it would compromise everything else we are talking about here too much to be considered.

    I can picture the satisfaction of ducking into a dry cabin after a long day and hearing the rain on the roof as opposed to having to dig out the tent and start rigging it. We will have to see how it goes when I get a chance to head out maybe this summer, maybe not. If I I come to the conclusion that I have to have a boat with a cabin would you be OK to be the one that lets Mary know?

    Graham

  30. #65
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    Jan 2018
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    Wexford, Ireland.
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    Default Re: Have I picked the right boat?

    Ian

    You mention that the key points to keeping a small cabin usable to be "organization and discipline" there's my problem right there.

    Graham



  31. #66
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    Default Re: Have I picked the right boat?

    ^ LOL.......yeah, when i wrote that i was conscious of the mass of junk strewn all over my desk. But then at sea i have always adhered to everything in its proper place, i find a boat functions better when you are ready for anything, rather than having to go look for something buried under a pile of something......or was it in the other locker?

  32. #67
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Location
    Bay Area, CA
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    185

    Default Re: Have I picked the right boat?

    I'll wrap this thread (for now) by reporting that, after extended deliberation, I decided to build Vivier's Seil instead of the Stir Ven 19. Here's the build:

    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...-in-California

    I would still love to know everything there is to know about the Stir Ven 19. Graham, any sails this season?

  33. #68
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
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    Cape Cod, Massachusetts, USA
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    154

    Default Re: Have I picked the right boat?

    As Marie Kondo would say, does the design spark joy? You don’t have to sail any boat unless you want to. Might as well build a boat you truly want as long as it is practical project that can be finished in an amount of time that is practical for your lifestyle. Right now I have two kids under ten, I have an hour or two a day, three or four days a week to build.

    Compared to many on this board I am a rank beginner, having build seven boats in 10 years. Of all of these, one is exactly what I wanted both from the results and the build experience, we use it nearly every day now. Knowing what I know now, I would spend much time ruminating over the intersection of time available, interest, practical considerations, what boat You want, and what build experience you want. The advice on this board is great. Good luck!

  34. #69
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Location
    Tallinn, Estonia
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    31

    Default Re: Have I picked the right boat?

    Quote Originally Posted by pez_leon View Post
    I'll wrap this thread (for now) by reporting that, after extended deliberation, I decided to build Vivier's Seil instead of the Stir Ven 19. Here's the build:

    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...-in-California

    I would still love to know everything there is to know about the Stir Ven 19. Graham, any sails this season?
    I enjoyed this thread and I have still not made a decision on which design to move forward with, but looking forward to follow your build of Vivier's Seil.

  35. #70
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Location
    Wexford, Ireland.
    Posts
    13

    Default Re: Have I picked the right boat?

    Quote Originally Posted by pez_leon View Post
    I'll wrap this thread (for now) by reporting that, after extended deliberation, I decided to build Vivier's Seil instead of the Stir Ven 19. Here's the build:

    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...-in-California

    I would still love to know everything there is to know about the Stir Ven 19. Graham, any sails this season?
    Seil 18 is a great boat I am sure that you it will be a fulfilling experience to build and too sail.

    I have sailed the Puffin dingy locally and had some trips with the canoe but the Stir Ven 19 is still in the garage. However an hour from now I am due to pick up the Stir Ven 19's trailer from its brake service, Mary is coming with me to practice driving the trailer so that she is able to come rescue me if I end up stuck somewhere miles away. We are going to the next phase of lockdown here in Ireland on Monday which means that I will be allowed to go further than just the borders of county Wexford. So the Stir Ven 19 should be in action again soon.

    Over the winter I got an asymmetric spinnaker made up and added a bowsprit and rigging (all to Francois design) so that could be entertaining.

    Graham

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