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Thread: MIT Tech 12'X5' dinghy rerigged to a lug rig ?

  1. #36
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    Default Re: MIT Tech 12'X5' dinghy rerigged to a lug rig ?

    Since this thread has received some interest even though the hull is FG, I thought some would like to see some progress images.

    Image 1 shows my thinking as how to proceed . This was after fixing some needed repairs and a general cleaning up..

    I took a flexible batten P&S sides and taped it as as shown to the insides of the hull at a height from the bilge suitable for comfort when sitting. Sailing hiked out isn't for me as I prefer at my age to be in the boat not on it's side. Although that option still remains if the wind dictates. Then I eye-balled it from fore and aft using a large mirror to see if it had a fair curve adjusting the batten as needed. This step also included measurements from inside the gunwale. Satisfied it looked OK I marked inked on the line to the inside of the hull.

    JD

    Shaula 3 repair 5.jpg
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    Default Re: MIT Tech 12'X5' dinghy rerigged to a lug rig ?

    Not sure if this photo link will work. The designer, George Owen III, of the original c. 1936 wooden Tech Dinghy redesigned it for fiberglass, and here is the first in 1952:
    https://collections.mitmuseum.org/object/go-2-439/

    Owen is in the photo, 3rd from left. Aft chamber visible, fore not. Note no forward deck, therefore no spray bar.
    Last edited by xkdrolt; 04-15-2020 at 07:43 PM.

  3. #38
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    Default Re: MIT Tech 12'X5' dinghy rerigged to a lug rig ?

    Shaula repairs 3 8.jpg In this image Is seen the seat shelf being glued in place. I prepared the surface by sanding away the old paint exposing the glass surface A 2"X 3" strong back was clamped to the existing CB case giving me a method to place random legs to push the seat riser in place guided by the inked lines established earlier. I took care not to sand away these lines during the process. In some places I had to place shorter legs vertically from the inside of the gunwale to the seat riser to help keep the seat riser in position.The seat riser is about 5/16" thick thick and 1 1/4 "wide. Using the same method I added three layers of the seat riser using epoxy glue.This process was duplicated on the other side.. I decided not to extend the riser all the way to the fwd. bulkhead ending the seats or thwarts to come. My scheme was to give ample room for crew or me to raise the mast and sail with plenty of foot room fwd. I'm hoping the glass to epoxy glue stands up to sailing conditions but for now it's holding up well.

    Keep well

    JD
    Senior Ole Salt # 650

  4. #39
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    Default Re: MIT Tech 12'X5' dinghy rerigged to a lug rig ?

    Shaula repairs 3 9.jpg
    In this image one can see the bulkheads in place. I cut into the center portion of the exiting mid ship thwart saving it and using it's height as a base line for the height of the seats which will be inclined away from the center of the boat. The bulkheads are 7/16 thick. I fitted the fore and aft bulkheads first using rough measurements from a base line of tightened string strung fore and aft establishing measurements every 6" or so. I transferred this data to the plywood by a thin batten . This was to be a rough cut meaning it got me able to once cut place it into position in the hull and fine tune the curve using a scribing tool (like a compass).This bulkhead still needed a bit of shaping with a hand plane till I could it fitted nicely to the inside of the boat, This was duplicated to the bulkhead on the other side.


    I had previously prepared the bottom inside taking off old paint with sandpaper exposing FG to assure a good bond of the bulkhead to the hull. I also preserved a straight line fore and aft as a guide in placing in the bulkhead. Mixing a good amount of epoxy and wood fiber I applied it to the bottom of the hull, bulkhead and positioned it in place using props and whatever worked. Before it set up I faired the glop inside and out using a curved wooden stick. Once cured I sanded it all and applied FG tape inside and out.

    Fitting the cross ship bulkheads I made cardboard pattern till they fit snug and tight to the boat inside and the longitudinal bulkhead. This I used as a pattern to cut the plywood bulkhead fitting it to the hull the same as above. When cured tape and all I fitted 1"X 2" to the bulkheads edges. to reinforce them and receive hardware. I envisioned the center chamber to be completely sealed and the other compartments useable as lockers and reasonably water tight using cemented rubber gaskets on the edges when the lid is closed compressing the gaskets. Surface hinges and hasps would keep water out when the lid was closed.


    I had previously leveled the hull on saw horses guided by the existing water line painted on. Since the new seating arrangement is tilted away from the center rain and spray water would collect to form an uncomfortable puddle. So I made a drain to the sole using ½" copper elbows and flexible clear hose.
    secured with SS clamps. I determined the low spot by letting a marble and ball roll down to where it stopped. Time and an afloat boat will determine if I got this right. Of course a few wet butts moved fore and aft will permit "adjusting" when sailing.


    Not shown in the image is another opening compartment all the way aft to make 5 useable water tight compartments for storage etc. .


    Keep well
    JD
    Senior Ole Salt # 650

  5. #40
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    Default Re: MIT Tech 12'X5' dinghy rerigged to a lug rig ?

    Are you going to add a stiffener across the long feature in the watertight compartments? Imagine the boat is flooded, and water is trying to bend/buckle the large vertical plates. IOW building frames inside the boxes.

  6. #41
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    Default Re: MIT Tech 12'X5' dinghy rerigged to a lug rig ?

    Ken.

    Not shown in the image is a cross ship stiffener in the to be sealed compartment That was installed after that image was taken.. I think this would be enough against any water pressure during a capsize and the hull on it's side. All the rest of the compartments /lockers have free access.
    I hope I never have to find out.

    Keep well

    JD
    Senior Ole Salt # 650

  7. #42
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    Default Re: MIT Tech 12'X5' dinghy rerigged to a lug rig ?

    Taking a step back to focus one of the repairs I made. Shauls 3 repairs 4.jpgShaula 3 repairs.jpg 6.jpg


    In this image the hull shows delaminating in the area fwd of the CB case. After inspection it seemed it would not effect the water tight integrity of the hull or case and seemed to be a botched repair made earlier in the boats history. So what to do ? I broke off all the loose stuff seen in the image and decided to attack the problem to fix it like a dentist might work on a rotten tooth or cavity.. This meant grinding , cutting ,chipping away suspect glass to get to sound material. All with no noviciane I then concocted a mix of FG strands small clippings wood power and epoxy resin to make a kind of glop to slop in the effected area as best I could. To hold it all in I made a kind of form of plywood coated with butchers wax and wax paper . This would give some assurance that the plywood form would come off readily when the repair cured. Removing the plywood I smoothed off any irregularities and filled in hollow spots with a kind of paste mixed as before. When cured sanded it all and applied glass cloth over the whole area. It all looked good to my eye and my scheme later is to drill and tap the site enabling me to screw in some hardware.


    Not show in any photo is the arrangement for hanging the rudder to the stern. It was a brass track screwed into the hull and sail slides on the rudder. It seemed to me an awful mess subjected to jamming and difficult to get on and off. I took it off once and for all and screwed in a pair of conventional SS gudgeons. It appeared there was enough "meat" in the transom to accept SS screws . Note : I do have an acclamation of boat hardware adaptable to new projects like this one.

    Stay well

    JD
    Senior Ole Salt # 650

  8. #43
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    Default Re: MIT Tech 12'X5' dinghy rerigged to a lug rig ?

    Well it's time to move the boat outside this Sat. I got about 1" clearance on the height and plenty on the beam once the boat is turned on it's side. I plan to careen it in the back yard for now but in the future to careen it while still on the trailer.

    If any here see an defects in the turning arrangements image please respond. I will have two strong men to initially raise the boat from the stb. side and one pulling on the "mast". The tackle as a kind of safety.Shaula 3 ready for turning on it's side.jpg

    Thanks Keep well

    JD
    Senior Ole Salt # 650

  9. #44
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    Default Re: MIT Tech 12'X5' dinghy rerigged to a lug rig ?

    It might work fine, as is, but I like to look for the unexpected.

    Unbolt the wheels closest to the floor; replace with temporary feet (pads) for friction and fewer surprises. I like the butt block on the floor board but the backstops (also on the floor) don't look tall enough to prevent a jump. I'd sister a plate across the 2 joints. Put a floor jack(s) between them so you can put the wheels back on afterward.

    Maybe rachet straps around the hull AND dolly, so they cannot separate.

    Do you have 2 safety eyes in the ceiling to lock the boat upright after you lift it on edge?

    Stupid question: what happens when a rope breaks? Do you have cushions to put under the hull just in case?

    BTW it looks great.

    edit: add an old blanket or 2 between the dolly and the freeboard+sheer.
    Last edited by xkdrolt; 04-30-2020 at 07:13 PM. Reason: another idea, not safety but cosmetics

  10. #45
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    Default Re: MIT Tech 12'X5' dinghy rerigged to a lug rig ?

    If you have a beam roughly amidships think about rigging a tackle to pull up, then use your other one to pull it over. You can then slack the up puller to control the angle, snub it as needed.
    Ben Fuller
    Ran Tan, Liten Kuhling, Tipsy, Tippy, Josef W., Merry Mouth, Imp, Macavity, Look Far, Flash and a quiver of other 'yaks.
    "Bound fast is boatless man."

  11. #46
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    Default Re: MIT Tech 12'X5' dinghy rerigged to a lug rig ?

    Shaula 3 final set up for removing..jpg

    As Ken suggested I beefed up the anti skid arrangement tackting them down on the shelving board and nailing down the bigger one where the castors are. Ben F gave me the idea of putting a board across the beam but in two places and clamped to the hull. This afforded something to grab on to when physically lifting the boat on it's side. The 2"x4" were cut to just fit between the floor beams overhead. I also moved the tackle to more overhead so it would be pulling up more the sideways. The wagon was all along C clamped to the hull in three places as well as the lashings.. Once outside I have an arrangement kind of railway of 1"x6" some plywood,a to turn the 180o and place the boat on 4'X4" beams. The 4"x4" beams will allow the boat to be careened and later jacked up to slip a trailer underneath.

    Stay tuned to see if it all works.


    JD keep well
    Senior Ole Salt # 650

  12. #47
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    Default Re: MIT Tech 12'X5' dinghy rerigged to a lug rig ?

    The boat saw daylight OK . With the help of two mussel ed youths. The block and tackle wasn't needed as well as the lever arrangement in the mast partner/step. The custom clamped and lashed on dolley/wagon with castors on the side made it easy to wheel the boat out the basement door with an 1" to spare . We turned the boat to better face the "to get trailer" . I later raised the boat up on blocks to do further outside maintenance and repainted etc.
    Next day I tried to careen the boat using a small tree cut to size but that proved too squrriely as the mast is so far fwd in a cat boat. it all looked too dangerous to me attempting to do,it single handed..A pair of hands actually lifting and turning the boat on it's side would have been better .. However I am determined to make it doable in the future on the trailer after I scheme a safe addition to the trailer

    PS that is the scarfed boom I will be using. To make, the mast and yard when the quarantine is lifted. Notice the fwd Boom crutch.

    Keep well

    JD

    Shaula 3 outside with boom.jpg
    Senior Ole Salt # 650

  13. #48
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    Default Re: MIT Tech 12'X5' dinghy rerigged to a lug rig ?

    You could paint the name on the boat (Sr Ole Salt #650) while you wait for the quarantine to lift. Or perhaps Auld NaCl

  14. #49
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    Default Re: MIT Tech 12'X5' dinghy rerigged to a lug rig ?

    Speaking of names I haven't picked one yet. My inclination is to name the boat to reflect the fact that this was a "rescue" boat. That is she was bound for the dump, cutting up or at best a garden planter. I rescued this 70 Plus year old FG hull to sail once more. Now for some Phoenix comes to mind but that involves fire and ashes not in this case. So any ideas but not Lazarus please ?

    Progress: I made the mast but did not use the bird mouth method but for me a proven hollow design( Aluminum foil inserted) involving easy slow steps for glueing instead of the furious B. Mouth involving a furious gluing of 8 staves and clamping em all at once.

    Thanks for any name suggestions.

    Keep Well

    JD
    Senior Ole Salt # 650

  15. #50
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    Default Re: MIT Tech 12'X5' dinghy rerigged to a lug rig ?

    Mi Tub or MiTub

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    Default Re: MIT Tech 12'X5' dinghy rerigged to a lug rig ?

    Aurora, for the fairy tale princess awakened from an uncertain future by a prince.
    “Eventually, all things merge into one, and a river runs through it. The river was cut by the world's great flood and runs over rocks from the basement of time. On some of those rocks are timeless raindrops. Under the rocks are the words, and some of the words are theirs."

  17. #52
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    Default Re: MIT Tech 12'X5' dinghy rerigged to a lug rig ?

    Mmmm "Aurora" A famine name, might make the ladies in my family jealous.

    Even thought the mast is not completed I could not resist the temptation to fasten a cheek block on the mast and rig up the sail. It needs a sheeve mortice, stain and varnish and of course the rigging. However for me the good news is that when tacking will not have to duck the boom.
    As far as a name is concerned it could be in latin. gaelic but not many letters.

    Keep well

    JD

    Shaula 3 lug stb beam.jpgShaula 3 me aboard.jpg
    Attached Images Attached Images
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  18. #53
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    Default Re: MIT Tech 12'X5' dinghy rerigged to a lug rig ?

    Looking great!

    How about Eva, I know a feminine name but I like them.
    Supposedly
    Eva is a female given name, the Latinate counterpart of English Eve, derived from a Hebrew name meaning "life" or "living one". It can also mean full of life or mother of life.”


    Last edited by Matt young; 06-03-2020 at 06:04 AM.
    "Yeah, well, that's just, like your opinion man"
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  19. #54
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    Default Re: MIT Tech 12'X5' dinghy rerigged to a lug rig ?

    HI Fourmites splash time is in sight. Trailer not yet. Our local Marine outfitters has two appropriate trailers for sale . One aluminum and hot dipped galv. steel. both are close in price and spec.. Do any here have any opinion as to which is better in salt water. ? Personally water tight integrity for the lighting system is preferred over frame material

    https://www.defender.com/product.jsp?id=6682832



    https://www.defender.com/product.jsp?id=6055202

    Thanks and
    keep well.

    JD
    Senior Ole Salt # 650

  20. #55
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    Default Re: MIT Tech 12'X5' dinghy rerigged to a lug rig ?

    R E S Q U T E C H

    rescue +
    qute (cute) +
    tech ( the nickname for MIT )

    then put a Beaver on the sail

  21. #56
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    Default Re: MIT Tech 12'X5' dinghy rerigged to a lug rig ?

    Started putting the new trailer under the boat and noticed one of the "new" tires had some rot. I contacted the trailer dealer late today and he said to send in some pix.
    As one can see in the images the full weight of the boat is on the trailer bunks. Not knowing the full weight of the boat and gear aboard I have little idea of what the tongue weight should be . As is I measure about 70 lbs via the bathroom scale. As can be seen in the image the winch post is too low. So I will have to raise that and or get some kind of attachment to elevate it 16 to 18 inches. Also I do not like the way the boat is supported so I will make a wooden support fwd across the trailer and a form fit to the bow section at that point. That's after I determine just where the boat should sit on the trailer. Any ideas here judging just by the image. I think the boat needs to come aft a bit.
    Shaula 3 boat on trailer.jpgShaula 3 tire pick.jpg
    Thanks

    JD
    Senior Ole Salt # 650

  22. #57
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    Default Re: MIT Tech 12'X5' dinghy rerigged to a lug rig ?

    I'm having 2nd thoughts about having a balanced lug rig for my MIT Tech dinghy. Nearing 91 years of age I find getting that yard & sail up with tension difficult single handing the rig. Even with no or little wind in the sail the yard while raising sure swings around a lot .Lowering the same, the yard seems to be in control. A lot has been written here about lug rigs So I am not alone in questions about lug rigs.


    While maybe the sprit rig is not as efficient as the lug rig, but in getting the sail raised it is done in two stages. First the halyard to the raise half the sail, Then the rest is "pushed" up with the sprit. Easy for those with diminishing physical abilities. Two distinct moves and easy to do


    Much has been said about the lug rig regarding speed and efficiency on the wind if all set up right. but little to slow the rig down when docking, mooring etc. Slacking the sheet doesn't always do it. Easing the halyard of the lug rig results in the yard taking over or even some of the boom getting in the water. Getting the halyard & sail up again is formidable unless one eases the down haul tackle A topping lift helps keep the boom up So how does one de-power the rig while still being able to regain power if your approaching the dock is miss judged ?


    Now with the sprit rig, the brail solves that problem easily. Pull it in slows the boat with the sail in part way. Too slow release to regain speed etc. Scandalizing the main also is an alternative. Even leaving the dock, It's simpler . With the sail brailed in and released when safely away from the dock, one can get full sail in an instant. Not so with a lug rig as the yard is threatening until completely raised.


    Using my present 12' mast & yard as a sprit I can get about 65 sq ft of sail up and easily controlled. But will it provide the boat with a lively sail in winds 10 MPH or less ? Will the sails CE be too different to succeed with the Tech dinghy under it ?

    Coping in a pandemic world

    JD
    Senior Ole Salt # 650

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    Default Re: MIT Tech 12'X5' dinghy rerigged to a lug rig ?

    J.
    I think your insight is very interesting, and probably why the sprit was so popular as a working rig.

    I started my canoe sailing with 46 sqft balanced lug sails, per the modern notion of its power and ease of use. Which are all true on a certain level. And yes a yard raising and lowing is a task not dilly dallied on, one hand for the sheet and one for the yard.

    I eventually rigged her with a 35 sqft Bermudian. It is not quit as strong but easier to handle and less weight up high. I still sail with both depending on the use.

    Just so many options! Refer to my post #10
    "Yeah, well, that's just, like your opinion man"
    -The Dude-

  24. #59
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    Default Re: MIT Tech 12'X5' dinghy rerigged to a lug rig ?

    Finally got power after the mini hurricane which roared through much of CT knocking down trees on lots of wires.
    This time gave me lots of opportunity to ponder about my rig for the MIT 12 Tech dinghy. I now think considering my age and capabilities that the balanced lug is not for me or the boat. It's too labor intensive really needing 4 hands to control the yard and sail. Since I sail mostly single handed only two hands are on deck. I noticed in another thread that Tom Jackson resorted to a peak halyard of sorts to manage the sail and yard.
    In the old days when this rig was common hands were available to control everything. Of course today, younger sailors like the challenge this rig gives.
    MIT 12 tech dinghy with sprit rig 2 with jib.jpg
    Now the ole sprit rig it seems to me to suit me better as I have sailed with it for over 20 years aboard my 18' boat Carrianne. So I drew up the rough sketch as shown . It gives me about 64 sq Ft of sail in the main and 26 sq ft in a small jib total of 90 sq ft. Do things balance out ? Maybe. My math skills are lacking but shifting weight around tweaking the C. Board or even adding a mini skeg might just do it. I like the idea of the brail a loose footed main gives and the many variations the rig provides . Not all in one big sail the balanced lug has. I might not be able to point high but so what . When I sail I'm not really going any where just out to feel the wind and the sun on my face. So for me back to the drawing board and finding a home for the balanced lug sail and a sail maker for a sprit and jib sail.

    Keep safe folks

    JD
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    Default Re: MIT Tech 12'X5' dinghy rerigged to a lug rig ?

    JD - Another variation on the theme is the sprit rig carried by the Delaware Duckers. The boom improves sail set but what's more, some owners run a brailing line from about 2/3 up the mast down and under the boom an equal distance aft. Hauling on the brail brings the boom up against the mast, folding up the sail. The sail is depowered instantly. If set in a gate, the rig can be dropped back into the boat with no effort.

    -Dave

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    Default Re: MIT Tech 12'X5' dinghy rerigged to a lug rig ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Woxbox View Post
    JD - Another variation on the theme is the sprit rig carried by the Delaware Duckers. The boom improves sail set but what's more, some owners run a brailing line from about 2/3 up the mast down and under the boom an equal distance aft. Hauling on the brail brings the boom up against the mast, folding up the sail. The sail is depowered instantly. If set in a gate, the rig can be dropped back into the boat with no effort.

    It's very effective; been using it on my ducker ( illustrated here) for years. But you do need to play with the gooseneck to get enough clearance to make it work. I and most of the old time duckers use a simple Y set of jaws with a lashed downhaul set so there is slack when the boom goes vertical. One of the critical pieces for ths rig is the slope of the boom. It is set so it pretty much clears your head, tacking and jibing which allows the gooseneck to be functionally low on the mast.
    Ben Fuller
    Ran Tan, Liten Kuhling, Tipsy, Tippy, Josef W., Merry Mouth, Imp, Macavity, Look Far, Flash and a quiver of other 'yaks.
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    Default Re: MIT Tech 12'X5' dinghy rerigged to a lug rig ?

    Duckboat-style spritsails are neat, either with or without a boom.

    duckboat spritsail.jpg

    However, in this case from what I can gather with a quick look, you would have to move the mast on this dinghy way forward in order to get the CE into the proper fore and aft location. A boom would also be a full time requirement with just about any spritsail since you don't have enough hull length to get the sheeting angle right for a boomless sprit. Even with a fairly high aspect spritsail, keeping the CE as far forward as possible, the mast really should be moved a bit.

    tech-with-sprits.jpg

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    Default Re: MIT Tech 12'X5' dinghy rerigged to a lug rig ?

    Thanks Woxbox ,Ben and Todd. Moving the mast is not an option as it would involve getting into the buoyancy tank fwd. How about the jib and main would that help with balance ? Also a small skeg ? If not I could always go back to the original rig the boat had. I have noticed from pictures this Tech dinghy at one time had a jib.

    Stay Safe

    JD
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    Default Re: MIT Tech 12'X5' dinghy rerigged to a lug rig ?


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    Default Re: MIT Tech 12'X5' dinghy rerigged to a lug rig ?


  31. #66
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    Default Re: MIT Tech 12'X5' dinghy rerigged to a lug rig ?

    The Firefly, which is a reasonably spirited 12 foot dinghy has 90 sq feet. The Laser 74 and the Tech dinghy 72.

    You may want to reduce your sail area.

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    Default Re: MIT Tech 12'X5' dinghy rerigged to a lug rig ?

    Quote Originally Posted by J. Dillon View Post
    Thanks Woxbox ,Ben and Todd. Moving the mast is not an option as it would involve getting into the buoyancy tank fwd. How about the jib and main would that help with balance ? Also a small skeg ? If not I could always go back to the original rig the boat had. I have noticed from pictures this Tech dinghy at one time had a jib.

    Stay Safe

    JD
    If you look at the sail plan of my ducker, do the geometry, you will see that it has quite a bit of weather helm; sweeping back and curving the board was one way of reducing it. So I don't think I'd worry about a relatively high short boomed sprit sail. As Todd drew it it is pretty close to what you have now. And a jub could be added. One of the nice things about my boat is that when you do something dumb if you just drop the sheet and tiller the boat immediatly goes almost broad side to the wind and just stops. Parks if you will.
    Ben Fuller
    Ran Tan, Liten Kuhling, Tipsy, Tippy, Josef W., Merry Mouth, Imp, Macavity, Look Far, Flash and a quiver of other 'yaks.
    "Bound fast is boatless man."

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    Default Re: MIT Tech 12'X5' dinghy rerigged to a lug rig ?

    Yea Ben. I think Todd did't take a good enough look and forgot the jib in the equation. Besides the MIT dinghy has a looong CB. I think pulling it up a bit would help balance things. A skeg would be easy to add as well.

    Hwyl Yes it does look like too much area . But I guess a reef in the main would tame things with the jib doused if the blow increases. I like the possibilities two sails give. All your eggs in one basket for me can be daunting.

    Stay safe

    JD
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    Default Re: MIT Tech 12'X5' dinghy rerigged to a lug rig ?

    Dave , about the brailing line you mentioned. You say it is attached about 2/3 way up the mast. Wouldn't that foul with the robands or interfere with the raising of the boom and sail ?

    Keep safe

    JD
    Senior Ole Salt # 650

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    Default Re: MIT Tech 12'X5' dinghy rerigged to a lug rig ?

    Quote Originally Posted by J. Dillon View Post
    Dave , about the brailing line you mentioned. You say it is attached about 2/3 way up the mast. Wouldn't that foul with the robands or interfere with the raising of the boom and sail ?

    Keep safe

    JD
    Ben can answer better than I can. I sailed one of these once some years ago. That owner never dropped the sail as I understood it. He just used the brail to pull yards, mast and sail together and bundled it up as a piece. Used like that, it's about the quickest way to set up a rig I think I've seen.
    -Dave

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