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Thread: ... identification of a sailing class in Marblehead in the thirties

  1. #1
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    Default ... identification of a sailing class in Marblehead in the thirties

    manuae
    Junior Member


    Join DateMay 2013Posts15


    Asking for identification of a sailing class in Marblehead in the thirties

    wrote in 2013 the following:

    hereunder are three links to photographs of sailing boats taken in Marblehead in the thirties, 1937 by a Boston photographer. Could somebody tell me what is this serie ?
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/boston_...57629431816543
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/boston_...7629431816543/
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/boston_...7629431816543/
    With thanks for your help. Alain


    The photographer was Leslie Jones of the Boston Herald Traveler. The photos are of Manchester I-class (hence the MI on the sails), which were Massachusetts Bay 18-footers. MI-4 is the Macintosh brothers' boat Speedy of the (I think) the Quincy Yacht Club, MI-5 is the Les Rawding's boat Nipper of the South Boston Yacht club, and MI-9 is Hosea White's boat the Oriental from the Savin Hill YC. The buoy is #3 channel marker just southeast of the Fort on Castle Island, South Boston Massachusetts. The US Coast Guard still has it marked the same way on contemporary Boston harbor charts.

    My grandfather George Rolt (sr) was 2nd (as the skipper) the Quincy Challenge Cup in 1931 in Nipper, 2nd in Speedy in 1932, and won 4 of 5 from 1934 to 1938 in the Oriental. If I had better views of the other boats in the race, I might be able to determine the race day in 1932, and therefore if it was a QCC race. The hurricane of 1938 damaged the Oriental, so White & Rolt instead sailed in White's beautiful Adams InterClub boat the Peanut II for 1939. I think they were 2nd or 3rd in that event, which was always a 3-day 3-race event using a point total to determine the winner. It was then, and still is now, one of the oldest US racing cup events. I think they use 210s now, and the race has been run by Hingham if I recall right.

    The Jones photos don't get enough press, IMO, so let me plug them here. They can be viewed on Flicker as well as directly via DigitalCommonwealth. The Boston Public Library is the official custodian for those photos and they are marvelous. I usually don't dredge up old posts, but I this is one worth documenting since I learned much of this from my dad (who sailed on MI-9 many times), from the Boston Globe archives, and from Hosea White's grandson who I very recently connected with after learning that Savin Hill YC runs an annual race in honor of their former Commodore. HTH.


    Last edited by xkdrolt; 02-13-2020 at 12:08 PM. Reason: more typos

  2. #2
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    Default Re: ... identification of a sailing class in Marblehead in the thirties

    Those are beautiful boats.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: ... identification of a sailing class in Marblehead in the thirties

    That was a delight of looking at past beauties, some of them very big, along with the smaller classes enjoyed by many.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: ... identification of a sailing class in Marblehead in the thirties

    I think they are Mass Bay I boats. I remember them as having a very distinctive curved mast but the other details are fuzzy. I actually sailed on one in 1958 out of Rockport Mass.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: ... identification of a sailing class in Marblehead in the thirties

    Quote Originally Posted by xkdrolt View Post
    manuae
    Junior Member


    Join DateMay 2013Posts15


    Asking for identification of a sailing class in Marblehead in the thirties

    wrote in 2013 the following:

    hereunder are three links to photographs of sailing boats taken in Marblehead in the thirties, 1937 by a Boston photographer. Could somebody tell me what is this serie ?
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/boston_...57629431816543
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/boston_...7629431816543/
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/boston_...7629431816543/
    With thanks for your help. Alain


    The photographer was Leslie Jones of the Boston Herald Traveler. The photos are of Manchester I-class (hence the MI on the sails), which were Massachusetts Bay 18-footers. MI-4 is the Macintosh brothers' boat Speedy of the (I think) the Quincy Yacht Club, MI-5 is the Les Rawding's boat Nipper of the South Boston Yacht club, and MI-9 is Hosea White's boat the Oriental from the Savin Hill YC. The buoy is #3 channel marker just southeast of the Fort on Castle Island, South Boston Massachusetts. The US Coast Guard still has it marked the same way on contemporary Boston harbor charts.

    My grandfather George Rolt (sr) won (as the skipper) the Quincy Challenge Cup in 1933 in Nipper, and 4 of 5 from 1934 to 1938 in the Oriental. If I had better views of the other boats in the race, I might be able to determine the race day in 1932, and therefore if it was a QCC race. The hurricane of 1938 damaged the Oriental, so White & Rolt instead sailed in White's beautiful Adams InterClub boat the Peanut II for 1939. I think they were 2nd or 3rd in that event, which was always a 3-day 3-race event using a point total to determine the winner. It was then, and still is now, one of the oldest US racing cup events. I think they use 210s now, and the race has been run by Hingham if I recall right.

    The Jones photos don't get enough press, IMO, so let me plug them here. They can be viewed on Flicker as well as directly via DigitalCommonwealth. The Boston Public Library is the official custodian for those photos and they are marvelous. I usually don't dredge up old posts, but I this is one worth documenting since I learned much of this from my dad (who sailed on MI-9 many times), from the Boston Globe archives, and from Hosea White's grandson who I very recently connected with after learning that Savin Hill YC runs an annual race in honor of their former Commodore. HTH.



    That is an amazing collection!

  6. #6
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    Default Re: ... identification of a sailing class in Marblehead in the thirties

    For those of you that recognize and can add cataloging value to these photos, send that information to the library which does not specialize in such things.
    Ben Fuller
    Ran Tan, Liten Kuhling, Tipsy, Tippy, Josef W., Merry Mouth, Imp, Macavity, Look Far, Flash and a quiver of other 'yaks.
    "Bound fast is boatless man."

  7. #7
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    Default Re: ... identification of a sailing class in Marblehead in the thirties

    I plan on ID-ing each photo, that I can add value to, in the Mass Bay (Manchester) I-class 18 footers, and in the 30 square meter class. Those are the two that my dad and grandfather were deeply involved in. I have a contact name at the Boston Public Library for this, because BPL is the custodian of the Leslie Jones collection.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: ... identification of a sailing class in Marblehead in the thirties


  9. #9
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    Default Re: ... identification of a sailing class in Marblehead in the thirties

    LFH

  10. #10
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    Default Re: ... identification of a sailing class in Marblehead in the thirties

    I'd venture that the dinghy is design no. 54 from 1932 (pp. 250-252 in "Sensible Cruising Designs").
    Peter Belenky

  11. #11
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    Default Re: ... identification of a sailing class in Marblehead in the thirties

    There are more of LFH in the collection, one has him in a topcoat in a dinghy like this one.
    Ben Fuller
    Ran Tan, Liten Kuhling, Tipsy, Tippy, Josef W., Merry Mouth, Imp, Macavity, Look Far, Flash and a quiver of other 'yaks.
    "Bound fast is boatless man."

  12. #12
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    Default Re: ... identification of a sailing class in Marblehead in the thirties

    A brief footnote to this thread: the boats were designed by E.A. Boardman, the author of the The Small Yacht (1909), a book that can be downloaded from the web:
    https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?...iew=1up&seq=11

    The main boat my grandfather sailed on, the Oriental, was MI-9 and it was owned by Hosea White. The boat was built in the 1925 by James Graves Yard in Marblehead MA.
    They are class boats, identical. They have full keels, but above the waterline there is a Sonder-class resemblance.

    The early versions were gaff rigged, circa 1904+. At some point, the Marconi rig replaced the gaff so by 1925 the new construction featured Marconi only. There was, according to Leonard M. Fowle, sailing writer for the Boston Globe, a slight difference in the hull between the early I-class and the late(r) I-class boats. The late models were regarded as being slightly faster, so when they raced, the older hull models (gaff, then separated, then all Marconi) were judged separately than the Manchester Division (newer) boats.

    HTH.
    Last edited by xkdrolt; 03-16-2020 at 06:09 PM.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: ... identification of a sailing class in Marblehead in the thirties

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Fuller View Post
    For those of you that recognize and can add cataloging value to these photos, send that information to the library which does not specialize in such things.
    I started feeding them info to test the waters. They have not been very receptive. Cold and distant might be more accurate.

    16 March 2020 update: I retract my comment, I just needed feedback from the right person. I think it will take time for the corrections & comments to be added, but they are queuing them up for vetting and use.
    Last edited by xkdrolt; 03-16-2020 at 06:11 PM.

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