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Thread: Electric boost for a camping rowboat

  1. #281
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    Default Re: Electric boost for a camping rowboat

    One conclusion I have come to over years of musing is that once a small boat has a sailing rig its needs immediately become dominant and render everything else a poor second. It is really interesting to see what can be done in the way of shelter and other forms of propulsion when a rig is ruled out from the start.

  2. #282
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    Default Re: Electric boost for a camping rowboat

    That really is a great setup in the video. Thanks!

  3. #283
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    Default Re: Electric boost for a camping rowboat

    Thanks for the comments guys.

    Quote Originally Posted by Clarkey View Post
    One conclusion I have come to over years of musing is that once a small boat has a sailing rig its needs immediately become dominant and render everything else a poor second. It is really interesting to see what can be done in the way of shelter and other forms of propulsion when a rig is ruled out from the start.
    I have to agree with this Clarkey. Coming at it the other way, I keep thinking of adding at least a downwind sail but even a simple rig does not really fit together with the existing bits. I could finish making the parts for a normal sail-n-oar boat, but the tent would only work if the rig stows completely and the motor would have to go to install the rudder. It would be pretty quick to convert between the two, but all functioning together just won't work.

  4. #284
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    Default Re: Electric boost for a camping rowboat

    I’m looking at a old (1947 vintage) Thistle sailboat right now, with an eye toward converting it to an electric powered launch. Several of these boats have been converted into steam driven launches over the years, so I think an electric version might be feasible. Really excited to go take a look at it later this week to see the condition of the hull.

    The Thistle is 17 feet long with a six foot beam, and probably will weigh in at just under 500lbs without rigging. Not sure what kind of thrust it would take to get it moving at 4 kts or what the power consumption would be…

    Jeff C
    Don’t expect much, and you won’t be disappointed…

  5. #285
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    Default Re: Electric boost for a camping rowboat

    Quote Originally Posted by leikec View Post
    I’m looking at a old (1947 vintage) Thistle sailboat right now, with an eye toward converting it to an electric powered launch. Several of these boats have been converted into steam driven launches over the years, so I think an electric version might be feasible. Really excited to go take a look at it later this week to see the condition of the hull.

    The Thistle is 17 feet long with a six foot beam, and probably will weigh in at just under 500lbs without rigging. Not sure what kind of thrust it would take to get it moving at 4 kts or what the power consumption would be…

    Jeff C
    Sounds like a great project. If you follow through, it needs its own WBF thread. I think a 50lb thrust trolling motor would push it to 4 knots unless it was overloaded.
    -Dave

  6. #286
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    Default Re: Electric boost for a camping rowboat

    Quote Originally Posted by Woxbox View Post
    I think a 50lb thrust trolling motor would push it to 4 knots unless it was overloaded.
    That’s what I’m thinking too, but I also wonder if a pair of the T500 thrusters mounted on either side of the rudder would also provide equivalent power, or perhaps a bit more. A lot would depend on battery charge expectations with that type of setup,but I do like the idea of having the propulsion system hidden under water.

    Jeff C
    Don’t expect much, and you won’t be disappointed…

  7. #287
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    Default Re: Electric boost for a camping rowboat

    Two small props is always far less efficient than one big one.
    -Dave

  8. #288
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    Default Re: Electric boost for a camping rowboat

    I’ve just bought a Bixpy J2 for my canoe. It’s a small motor, claiming 35 pounds thrust, but what makes it cool is that the design includes a bracket on top of the motor just for attaching it to a rudder. The motor is designed for kayaks and paddleboards, so may be a tad light for a canoe loaded with two people. Sea trials with just one aboard commence this weekend.

  9. #289
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    Default

    An electric Thistle sounds like a great project. Compared to the Walkabout it is double the hull weight, a foot more beam, and has a planing hull with a wider transom. The Walkabout needs about 200 W to the EP Carry outboard to make 4 kts, my guess would be double that for the Thistle.

    The EP Carry has very little rudder effect, I steer by motor thrust. That is what I asked for, to make oar steering work for boosted rowing, but it is slow steering. You can see in the video it needs 100 yards channel to turn around by motor. Putting a motor on a rudder as you say should be much better for turning.

  10. #290
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    Default Re: Electric boost for a camping rowboat

    Quote Originally Posted by rgthom View Post
    An electric Thistle sounds like a great project. Compared to the Walkabout it is double the hull weight, a foot more beam, and has a planing hull with a wider transom. The Walkabout needs about 200 W to the EP Carry outboard to make 4 kts, my guess would be double that for the Thistle.

    The EP Carry has very little rudder effect, I steer by motor thrust. That is what I asked for, to make oar steering work for boosted rowing, but it is slow steering. You can see in the video it needs 100 yards channel to turn around by motor. Putting a motor on a rudder as you say should be much better for turning.
    I think you are right on the power consumption needed. I already own a 1950’s era trolling motor, which I will use for initial testing. That motor is currently stored in the trunk of my Corvair, which is on my friends property in Indiana. Hopefully it still works ok—it seemed like it was pretty bulletproof .

    Jeff C
    Don’t expect much, and you won’t be disappointed…

  11. #291
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    Default Re: Electric boost for a camping rowboat

    I'm putting a small trolling motor on my sailboat. And I'm going with this battery. I know it's $$$$ but I'm going for it. https://dakotalithium.com/marine-dee...ies-for-boats/
    David Satter www.sattersrestoration.com
    "The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten" Ben Franklin

  12. #292
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    Default Re: Electric boost for a camping rowboat

    Quote Originally Posted by leikec View Post
    I’m looking at a old (1947 vintage) Thistle sailboat right now, with an eye toward converting it to an electric powered launch. Several of these boats have been converted into steam driven launches over the years, so I think an electric version might be feasible. Really excited to go take a look at it later this week to see the condition of the hull.

    The Thistle is 17 feet long with a six foot beam, and probably will weigh in at just under 500lbs without rigging. Not sure what kind of thrust it would take to get it moving at 4 kts or what the power consumption would be…

    Jeff C

    This article might be useful...

    https://www.electricpaddle.com/solar...g-epcarry.html

    The inventor of the EP Carry, which Rich is using, converted a C-Lark 14 hull for cruising with solar panels. The C-Lark hull looks like a small Thistle and I'd bet the performance would be pretty similar. Joe Gretz later converted another sailboat hull (I think maybe another C-Lark but I'm not sure) to a cruiser with a full cabin and has cruised that as well. The company that makes the EP Carry has been working on a larger motor for some time. It might be worth checking with them on where they are with that design.
    - Chris

    Any single boat project will always expand to encompass the set of all possible boat projects.

    Life is short. Go boating now!

  13. #293
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    Default Re: Electric boost for a camping rowboat

    Quote Originally Posted by phiil View Post
    I’ve just bought a Bixpy J2 for my canoe. It’s a small motor, claiming 35 pounds thrust, but what makes it cool is that the design includes a bracket on top of the motor just for attaching it to a rudder. The motor is designed for kayaks and paddleboards, so may be a tad light for a canoe loaded with two people. Sea trials with just one aboard commence this weekend.
    It was neat to hear you talking about this. I can’t wait to hear how the trials go off. I wish you much success!

  14. #294
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    Default Re: Electric boost for a camping rowboat

    Quote Originally Posted by David Satter View Post
    I'm putting a small trolling motor on my sailboat. And I'm going with this battery. I know it's $$$$ but I'm going for it. https://dakotalithium.com/marine-dee...ies-for-boats/
    David - I only know one person using these, but he is happy and they are highly rated on Amazon and typically around half the cost of similar batteries. Worth a look at least.

    https://www.amperetime.com/

  15. #295
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    Default Re: Electric boost for a camping rowboat

    Quote Originally Posted by cstevens View Post
    This article might be useful...

    https://www.electricpaddle.com/solar...g-epcarry.html

    The inventor of the EP Carry, which Rich is using, converted a C-Lark 14 hull for cruising with solar panels. The C-Lark hull looks like a small Thistle and I'd bet the performance would be pretty similar. Joe Gretz later converted another sailboat hull (I think maybe another C-Lark but I'm not sure) to a cruiser with a full cabin and has cruised that as well. The company that makes the EP Carry has been working on a larger motor for some time. It might be worth checking with them on where they are with that design.
    Here is a photo of Joe's solar powered cruiser on the Salish 100 in 2021. The hull he used as a starting point for making this cool boat was sold by the Clark boat company as an International 14 hull back in the 1960s. The C-Lark was a tamer boat, with a smaller sail, also sold by Clark. That is why Joe's hull looks so much like a Thistle, which is just a 17' version of an International 14.

    Joe Gretz's solar powered cruiser.jpg

    Joe travelled the entire 100 miles without once plugging into dock power. His panels are on the flat roof over his covered cockpit.

  16. #296
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    Default Re: Electric boost for a camping rowboat

    Quote Originally Posted by phiil View Post
    I’ve just bought a Bixpy J2 for my canoe. It’s a small motor, claiming 35 pounds thrust, but what makes it cool is that the design includes a bracket on top of the motor just for attaching it to a rudder. The motor is designed for kayaks and paddleboards, so may be a tad light for a canoe loaded with two people. Sea trials with just one aboard commence this weekend.
    Sounds like a huge motor for a canoe, Years ago I had a 17 foot square stern canoe and a 10 lb thrust Minnkota trolling motor. With my wife and I in the canoe, that motor pushed it along real well. That was years before GPS was available.

  17. #297
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    Default Re: Electric boost for a camping rowboat

    Thanks, I'll look at those amperetime batteries they sound interesting. Dave
    David Satter www.sattersrestoration.com
    "The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten" Ben Franklin

  18. #298
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    Default Re: Electric boost for a camping rowboat

    Sadly, I missed out on the Thistle. Now I’m wondering about building the sailing version of the weekend skiff as it seems it might be a suitable hull for electric power…

    Jeff C
    Don’t expect much, and you won’t be disappointed…

  19. #299
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    Default Re: Electric boost for a camping rowboat

    Quote Originally Posted by Woxbox View Post
    Sounds like a great project. If you follow through, it needs its own WBF thread. I think a 50lb thrust trolling motor would push it to 4 knots unless it was overloaded.
    Maybe it's the hull shape and length (the thistle looks more performance orientated) but I recently tried a 50 lbs thrust on my Gartside 130 (180lbs) and the top speed seemed to be around 3.5 knots. The Gartside has a hull speed of about 4.5 knts from what I can calculate. I average around 4 knts on a good day sailing though I have hit 4.8-5 in very windy conditions.
    Maybe my comparison is an apples and oranges one.

  20. #300
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    Default Re: Electric boost for a camping rowboat

    08EB12CB-554C-4C27-B061-0E5A213453BF.jpg
    I am just now putting together a Sassafras canoe with a Bixpy electric kayak motor. I should have results in a week or so.EFA04C17-8950-4D3F-8D0E-58A984A3EBDF.jpg

  21. #301
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    Default Re: Electric boost for a camping rowboat

    Quote Originally Posted by Toxophilite View Post
    Maybe it's the hull shape and length (the thistle looks more performance orientated) but I recently tried a 50 lbs thrust on my Gartside 130 (180lbs) and the top speed seemed to be around 3.5 knots. The Gartside has a hull speed of about 4.5 knts from what I can calculate. I average around 4 knts on a good day sailing though I have hit 4.8-5 in very windy conditions.
    Maybe my comparison is an apples and oranges one.
    Right -- The Gartside is, I believe, a 12-foot boat and the Thistle a 17' boat. The extra length is all it takes to get another half knot, perhaps even a bit more, at low power.
    -Dave

  22. #302
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    Default Re: Electric boost for a camping rowboat

    Quote Originally Posted by phiil View Post
    08EB12CB-554C-4C27-B061-0E5A213453BF.jpg
    I am just now putting together a Sassafras canoe with a Bixpy electric kayak motor. I should have results in a week or so.EFA04C17-8950-4D3F-8D0E-58A984A3EBDF.jpg
    How did this work out?

    Jeff C
    Don’t expect much, and you won’t be disappointed…

  23. #303
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    Default Re: Electric boost for a camping rowboat

    Rick, I know I had given you some raw numbers regarding the e-propulsion spirit on the Jewell; I have plotted the speed vs watt output now, and here is that curve:
    D01E4F0C-5882-49D0-8E6D-A4BFEBAD1634.jpg
    the sweet spot seems to be in the 250-350 watt range for this set up—4 to 4&1/2 mph at 25-30% of the max output, with speed increases flattening beyond that.

  24. #304
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    Default Re: Electric boost for a camping rowboat

    I put a 54AH Dakota lithium battery on my sailboat. The boats about 1,200 lbs. With a Minn kota 55 lb thrust. Mostly I use it to get in and out of the cove or to get home when the wind dies. Though I have run it for hours. So far, I absolutely love this battery. I also used a Get Connected Trolling Motor and House Battery Connection Kits by Connect-Ease.com– Connect-Ease. Get Connected Connect all your marine equipment with ease. It's so easy to connect or disconnect the battery to take it home to charge. It's only 17 lbs. I used 2 connectors onIMG_1216.jpg the battery one for the motor and the other to my small breaker panel.
    David Satter www.sattersrestoration.com
    "The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten" Ben Franklin

  25. #305
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    Default Re: Electric boost for a camping rowboat

    I updated my plot of electric boat performance with John Hartmann's Jewell added. It looks pretty good, more slippery than Redwing 18. Jewell and Romilly may be similar, I only have the one data point for Romilly.


  26. #306
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    Default Re: Electric boost for a camping rowboat

    On the recent TSCA trip in the Delta just two boats made it, Dave's sailing Swampscott and the solar Walkabout. On the leg out we both rowed (against the wind), but for the return Dave raised sail and I fired up the EP Carry. The wind was pretty fluky, and we were going against a strong flood current, so Dave accepted a test of towing by solar electric. It worked pretty well, my solo speed at full 250 W power was 2.5 kts against the current, with the two boats together it only dropped to 1.9 kts. I will be hiring out to BoatUS for towing duty for some extra cash....


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