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Thread: B.Sanders & R. Reich Don't Just Want to Tax the Rich, They Want to Abolish Billionair

  1. #36
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    Default Re: B.Sanders & R. Reich Don't Just Want to Tax the Rich, They Want to Abolish Billio

    ^^ Like the real thing, at least once..

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    Default Re: B.Sanders & R. Reich Don't Just Want to Tax the Rich, They Want to Abolish Billio

    Once again, I feel compelled to assert that the Billionaires are people, too.

    We have been given this phrase 'all men are created equal' and we need to remind ourselves, lest we forget, that the phrase means 'equal before the Law'.

    In considering the Billionaires, we should remember that not everyone even wants to BE a billionaire, and even fewer have the basic equipment necessary. Not that I have a bill of lading for such equipment handy for reference, but we can assume that it is a different manifest from, say, 'Opera Singer', or 'Mining Engineer', or 'Philosopher'.

    These differences are what makes the Human Race an interesting and worthwhile subject of inquiry.

    As we consider these inquiries, we must keep in mind that having the knack for amassing an outrageous fortune does not make the Billionaire a better Person than is the Day Laborer. Therefore we must ensure, through the instrument of Government, that the Day Laborer is not ground into paste in the service of making Billionaires.

    We must also ensure that the Billionaire not be ground into paste in the service of making Day Laborers.

    The Day Laborer is co-equal with the Billionaire, before the Law.

    One thing the Founders did not forsee was that those predisposed to becoming Billionaires would develop the power of their money to rival and eventually displace the authority of the duly-Constituted United States Government.

    Billionaires are the engines that drive our economy, the minds and personalities that have an innate understanding of Commerce, and the will to manifest wealth for the sake of wealth, and if the Day Laborer is not to be ground into paste, Government must have a mechanism for redistributing that wealth, if the Freedom of self-actualization is to survive.

    If we are not free to become the Day-Laborers, Mining Engineers and Opera Singers our destinies equipped us to become, then the US Constitution is void.

    If only Billionaires are allowed to realize their potential, then what a cold, gray lifeless species we will have allowed ourselves to become.

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    Default Re: B.Sanders & R. Reich Don't Just Want to Tax the Rich, They Want to Abolish Billio

    Once upon a time, Too Little Time said that the only real important measure of wealth is how well one is doing compared to others.

    By that logic, eliminating billionaires would be a great plan.

    I'm sure they would complain, but I'm not obligated to care about them.

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    Default Re: B.Sanders & R. Reich Don't Just Want to Tax the Rich, They Want to Abolish Billio

    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post
    We must also ensure that the Billionaire not be ground into paste in the service of making Day Laborers.
    Why on earth should we try to ensure that?

    First, it's not a binary choice, either billionaire or day laborer. So, failure of logic at a drastic scale right there.

    Second, the existence of systems that enable billionaires is arguably incredibly destructive to social justice and equal opportunity for all. The world would probably be better in the long run without such extremes of wealth. So why not eliminate them? Not by killing the ones that already exist--but by removing the failures of the system that allow them to be created at the expense of the common good.

    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post
    The Day Laborer is co-equal with the Billionaire, before the Law.
    Citizens United proves you wrong there. Our nation as defined by the Constitution and interpreted by the Supreme Court no longer acknowledges equality before the law.

    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post
    Billionaires are the engines that drive our economy
    Utter nonsense. Show me one billionaire who would be a billionaire without the cheap labor force he has used (or dare I say exploited) to get there?

    Tom
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    Default Re: B.Sanders & R. Reich Don't Just Want to Tax the Rich, They Want to Abolish Billio

    Quote Originally Posted by WI-Tom View Post
    Why on earth should we try to ensure that?

    First, it's not a binary choice, either billionaire or day laborer. So, failure of logic at a drastic scale right there.

    Second, the existence of systems that enable billionaires is arguably incredibly destructive to social justice and equal opportunity for all. The world would probably be better in the long run without such extremes of wealth. So why not eliminate them? Not by killing the ones that already exist--but by removing the failures of the system that allow them to be created at the expense of the common good.



    Citizens United proves you wrong there. Our nation as defined by the Constitution and interpreted by the Supreme Court no longer acknowledges equality before the law.



    Utter nonsense. Show me one billionaire who would be a billionaire without the cheap labor force he has used (or dare I say exploited) to get there?

    Tom
    Please re-read.

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    Default Re: B.Sanders & R. Reich Don't Just Want to Tax the Rich, They Want to Abolish Billio

    Except all of that can be true AND we don't let them keep it all. How could it make a difference to the actual billionaire if his wealth were kept at say ten million or a hundred million dollars. He could pay a thousand people a decent living to cart the excess away in trucks, and still not notice the difference, let alone suffer from any unfairness.

    I still come back to, why are still allowing them to continue the evil when it's nearly all of us who would be way better off if we changed it so they weren't, and while billions of human individuals, not billions of dollars nor the billionaires themselves, are in poverty and live without inside plumbing and safe water. If WE put an artificially contrived, purpose-built limit on accrued wealth and income, WE could feed and house and care for all of those people AND the mutherluvers would still be not just rich but still the richest.

    'No billionaires' seems to me to be about as fair and honorable and democratic as no nazis, no white supremacists and no murderers nor rapists in elected office. Taking the world's wealth back from a tiny handful of craven pirates in nice suits isn't wrong nor bad. On the contrary it would be the single most beneficial thing WE might do for ourselves and the entire world including the natural world. It isn't stealing from the rich. It isn't the piracy that contrived the situation in the first place and maintains it. Let them drive the economy without slaves and without the oppression of poverty nor even the economic drag on the bulk of the rest of us, even including the not quite obscenely rich.

    In fact it is our moral obligation to eliminate billionaires. It's tantamount to eliminating genocide. But this is just sour grapes from a starving artist and no one to admire. The poor will always be among us isn't a plaintive accession to our duty to extend charity. It is just as true and more to the point that the poor will always be with us specifcally because the rich will always be there stealing from us and maintaing the poverty for their own craven lust for filthy lucre.

    Storm the bastille and start dropping the hedge fund managers onto to the streets in the financial districts around the globe. How could it be wrong to significantly improve the lot of literally billions of people, and nearly instantly, at the cost of an unnoticeable change in tax to the plutocrats?
    Last edited by Jim Mahan; 12-21-2019 at 10:59 AM.


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    Default Re: B.Sanders & R. Reich Don't Just Want to Tax the Rich, They Want to Abolish Billio

    Well said, Jim.

    Ozna, I read and understood what you posted. You were wrong about a few things. I pointed that out.

    Tom
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    Default Re: B.Sanders & R. Reich Don't Just Want to Tax the Rich, They Want to Abolish Billio

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Mahan View Post
    Except all of that can be true AND we don't let them keep it all. How could it make a difference to the actual billionaire if his wealth were kept at say ten million or a hundred million dollars. He could pay a thousand people a decent living to cart the the excess away in trucks, and still not notice the difference, let alone suffer from any unfairness.

    I still come back to, why are still allowing them to continue the evil when it's nearly all of us who would be way better off if we changed it so they weren't, and while billions of human individuals, not billions of dollars nor the billionaires themselves at are in poverty and live without inside plumbing and safe water. If WE put an artificially contrived, purpose-built limit on accrued wealth and income, WE could feed and house and care for all of those people AND the mutherluvers would still be not just rich but still the richest.

    'No billionaires' seems to me to be about as fair and honorable and democratic as no nazis, no white supremacists and no murderers nor rapists in elected office. Taking the world's wealth back from a tiny handful of craven pirates in nice suits isn't wrong nor bad. On the contrary it would be the single most beneficial thing WE might do for ourselves and the entire world including the natural world. It isn't stealing from the rich. It isn't the piracy that contrived and maintains the situation in the first place. Let them drive the economy without slaves and without the oppression of poverty nor even the economic drag on the bulk of the rest of us, even including the not quite obscenely rich.

    In fact it is our moral obligation to eliminate billionaires. It's tantamount to eliminating genocide. But this is just sour grapes from a starving artist and no one to admire. The poor will always be among us isn't a plaintive accession to our duty to extend charity. It is just as true and more to the point that the poor will always be with us specifcally because the rich will always be there stealing from us and maintaing the poverty for their own craven lust for filthy lucre.

    Storm the bastille and start dropping the hedge fund managers onto to the streets in the financial districts around the globe. How could it be wrong to significantly improve the lot of literally billions of people, and nearly instantly, at the cost of an unnoticeable change in tax to the plutocrats?
    My position is that a billionaire can't help being born that way any more than can a black, trans-sexual lesbian.

    If you round them up and kill them, that's genocide.

    If you erect barriers to their excess and use their natural abilities to create a more democratically wealthy society, then everybody wins.

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    Default Re: B.Sanders & R. Reich Don't Just Want to Tax the Rich, They Want to Abolish Billio

    oh, 'grinding to a paste' is not the idea.. dropped minus even the shirt on their back in the middle of an Australian desert, otoh..


    as ljb5 observed -
    " I'm sure they would complain, but I'm not obligated to care about them. "
    Last edited by Durnik; 12-21-2019 at 11:29 AM. Reason: proper (non)caps

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    Default Re: B.Sanders & R. Reich Don't Just Want to Tax the Rich, They Want to Abolish Billio

    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post
    My position is that a billionaire can't help being born that way any more than can a black, trans-sexual lesbian.

    If you round them up and kill them, that's genocide.

    If you erect barriers to their excess and use their natural abilities to create a more democratically wealthy society, then everybody wins.
    I don't think I disagree with any of your position, except I would hesitate to call simple organized murder of a handful of deserving individuals genocide. But I am not advocating any violence, and I don't want to punish anyone just for being rich. As long as their natural predilection for earning money or managing successful progress in something worthy isn't based on needing to take my planet's resources by force of gilt.

    The only actual punishment I would meet out for being a billionaire would be for the fake one occupying the White House. His beyond-deserved capital punishment should include rendering his ass to oil to light an eternal flame on an appropriately scaled monument to illuminate the caution: Never Again in America.

    You might even make the case that Trump and his ilk, or more like the Kochs and theirs, have committed at least three hundred and forty million counts of depriving us of our constitutional rights.


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    Default Re: B.Sanders & R. Reich Don't Just Want to Tax the Rich, They Want to Abolish Billio

    Quote Originally Posted by ljb5 View Post
    Once upon a time, Too Little Time said that the only real important measure of wealth is how well one is doing compared to others.
    he also said this

    Originally Posted by Too Little Time
    I am a smart guy.
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

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    Default Re: B.Sanders & R. Reich Don't Just Want to Tax the Rich, They Want to Abolish Billio

    The idea that being a billionaire is somehow an immutable genetic thing (born that way, can't help it) is total nonsense. Remember that one major component, maybe THE major component, of becoming a billionaire is pure dumb luck; happening to be in the right place at the right time. Bill Gates is the perfect example; had he been born five years earlier or later, very likely we would have never heard of him; just another clever software guy. Think of it more like winning a lottery, where part of the price of entry is one's clever ideas and hard work and skill, but where hitting a big payoff is more a matter of chance.

    Too much concentration of wealth is bad for almost everybody.
    Last edited by Keith Wilson; 12-21-2019 at 11:35 AM.
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    for nature cannot be fooled."

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    Default Re: B.Sanders & R. Reich Don't Just Want to Tax the Rich, They Want to Abolish Billio

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    he also said this
    I'll bet it reverberated the same way as when Trump said in his debate appearance that of course he avoided paying taxes, because it's smart business.

    People like my dad, whose lament to a fellow small business retail franchiser at a convention, got him the advice to mis-report his income by shorting the inventory, because cheating on the taxes was the only way to show a profit, thought so, too. Typical Republican, it isn't bad if you don't get caught. He took the advice and fudged the numbers to the accountant who paid his taxes, and every year at inventory time the family would go to the store and count the inventory, the accountant would cook the books and file the fraudulently massaged return, and meanwhile during the business year, to keep the appearance of honest business while skimming, every day when the till and the daily receipts were done, Mom would take a couple hundred in cash out of the drawer before making the bank deposit. She kept a stash of cash hidden in a box in the attic access in her bedroom closet. Every now and then there would be a reason for one of us to use some of the cash for something and she'd tell us on the phone which hiding place to look in, and then contrive a new hiding place. There was always several hundred bucks in the cigar box. It was a thing. While Mom was running the shop in the city, the Old Man was still doing his corporate director gig.


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    Default Re: B.Sanders & R. Reich Don't Just Want to Tax the Rich, They Want to Abolish Billio

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    Remember that one major component of becoming a billionaire is pure dumb luck; happening to be in the right place at the right time.
    Very true... even Milton Friedman (you know, that commie pinko socialist) said that success in life is largely a matter of luck; the luck to be born to the right parents.
    "Reason and facts are sacrificed to opinion and myth. Demonstrable falsehoods are circulated and recycled as fact. Narrow minded opinion refuses to be subjected to thought and analysis. Too many now subject events to a prefabricated set of interpretations, usually provided by a biased media source. The myth is more comfortable than the often difficult search for truth."







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    Default Re: B.Sanders & R. Reich Don't Just Want to Tax the Rich, They Want to Abolish Billio

    Quote Originally Posted by ljb5 View Post
    Once upon a time, Too Little Time said that the only real important measure of wealth is how well one is doing compared to others.

    By that logic, eliminating billionaires would be a great plan.

    I'm sure they would complain, but I'm not obligated to care about them.
    Which is why I suggested earlier that we replace the scorecard of money in the bank with money paid in taxes.

    Andrew Carnegie discovered this AFTER he had amassed his fortune, and yes, I understand that he came into that money in hideous ways.

    Quote Originally Posted by WI-Tom View Post
    Originally Posted by oznabrag
    We must also ensure that the Billionaire not be ground into paste in the service of making Day Laborers.
    Why on earth should we try to ensure that?
    Because Billionaires are equal to Day Laborers before the law.

    Quote Originally Posted by WI-Tom View Post
    First, it's not a binary choice, either billionaire or day laborer. So, failure of logic at a drastic scale right there.
    If that is true, then why are you clinging so desperately to the idea that there is a binary choice between Billionaires and everybody else?

    Quote Originally Posted by WI-Tom View Post
    Second, the existence of systems that enable billionaires is arguably incredibly destructive to social justice and equal opportunity for all. The world would probably be better in the long run without such extremes of wealth. So why not eliminate them? Not by killing the ones that already exist--but by removing the failures of the system that allow them to be created at the expense of the common good.
    I'm all for regulating/taxing the Billionaire class for the common good.

    In fact, that is what my little exposition is ALL about.

    You seem to be in denial that there is a set of personality traits/emotional intelligence/mathematical insights combined with opportunity and luck that makes a Billionaire possible.

    Other people are born with the potential to become truly awesome Singer-Songwriters, and you would be all up in arms if someone advocated for eliminating them.

    Quote Originally Posted by WI-Tom View Post
    Originally Posted by oznabrag
    The Day Laborer is co-equal with the Billionaire, before the Law.
    Citizens United proves you wrong there. Our nation as defined by the Constitution and interpreted by the Supreme Court no longer acknowledges equality before the law.
    Not at all. Citizens United merely proves that the Billionaires are pursuing self-actualization unfettered by government. That doesn't make it right, and it doesn't mean that we are not equal before the law, merely that the SCOTUS has been perverted to the will of Big Money.

    Quote Originally Posted by WI-Tom View Post

    Originally Posted by oznabrag
    Billionaires are the engines that drive our economy
    Utter nonsense. Show me one billionaire who would be a billionaire without the cheap labor force he has used (or dare I say exploited) to get there?

    Tom
    First, show me one Billionaire who has not driven massive chunks of the economy.

    You are advocating for oppression in the service of social justice, and I find it a more than a little disturbing that you can not see that.

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    Default Re: B.Sanders & R. Reich Don't Just Want to Tax the Rich, They Want to Abolish Billio

    Quote Originally Posted by Norman Bernstein View Post
    Very true... even Milton Friedman (you know, that commie pinko socialist) said that success in life is largely a matter of luck; the luck to be born to the right parents.
    Exactly. It isn't only luck; it also requires ability and effort and good ideas and all that, and you can't be a lazy drunk, but the difference between being moderately successful and getting absurdly rich is almost always luck. I'm sure there were at least 10,000 software engineers as good as Bill Gates when IBM settled on MS-DOS, but they had reasonably decent careers, and he got lucky.

    When I build my time machine, I'm going back to St. Petersburg in 1913 and buy Alisa Zinov'yevna Rosenbaum's family tickets to New York. Then in our time, no one will have ever heard of Ayn Rand, and the world will be a far, far better place.
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    Default Re: B.Sanders & R. Reich Don't Just Want to Tax the Rich, They Want to Abolish Billio

    Quote Originally Posted by ljb5 View Post
    Once upon a time, Too Little Time said that the only real important measure of wealth is how well one is doing compared to others.

    By that logic, eliminating billionaires would be a great plan.

    I'm sure they would complain, but I'm not obligated to care about them.
    I don't think I said that. And if I did I am sure I said it with a different meaning. I think my intent might have been to chastise those in the 19% below the 1% who think they should be doing better.


    Just as you are not obligated to care about the billionaires, I am not obligated to care for those in the top 20%. I think they should pay a lot more in taxes.
    Life is complex.

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    Default Re: B.Sanders & R. Reich Don't Just Want to Tax the Rich, They Want to Abolish Billio

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    The idea that [the potential to become] billionaire is somehow an immutable genetic thing (born that way, can't help it) is total nonsense.
    OK. I can agree with that as soon as you agree that the potential to become a truly gifted mechanical engineer is somehow an innate quality is also nonsense.

    Are you suffering from the delusion that all humans are created absolutely equal in every way?

    If so, then please disabuse yourself of that notion immediately.

    We are not.


    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    Remember that one major component, maybe THE major component, of becoming a billionaire is pure dumb luck; happening to be in the right place at the right time. Bill Gates is the perfect example; had he been born five years earlier or later, very likely we would have never heard of him; just another clever software guy. Think of it more like winning a lottery, where part of the price of entry is one's clever ideas and hard work and skill, but where hitting a big payoff is more a matter of chance.

    I disagree wholeheartedly. Sure, dumb luck plays a large part of defining which opportunity presents itself to the potential billionaire, but if Keith Wilson were given the same opportunity as Gates, we likely would not have ever heard of Keith Wilson.

    On the other hand, Gates would have been far more likely to have identified and exploited a different opportunity and become wealthy anyway.

    That does not mean that Bill is a better person than Keith, just that Bill has a knack that Keith does not.

    If Bill were to design machines for the mass production of laminate counters, I would bet that he would make a mess of things.



    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    Too much concentration of wealth is bad for almost everybody.
    I could not agree with you more.

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    Default Re: B.Sanders & R. Reich Don't Just Want to Tax the Rich, They Want to Abolish Billio

    ... just another clever software guy.
    More accurately, just another privileged clever lawyer son of a K-street lawyer, who rode Daddy & Mommy's shirt tails and used their money hiring software talent & eventually stiffing (most) of them - while hurting the industry by 15 years. A multitasking w/ gui OS was already available & Billy Boys mommy got IBM to drop that company in support of her widdle spawn of evil's POC (which was according to billy boy's rules for the rest of us, pirated software).

    See how it is that fake news (Re: Gate's supposed prowess & beneficence) runs rampant?

    Better to use Warren Buffet who comes right out and admits his wealth is a luck of born in the right time & place.
    Last edited by Durnik; 12-21-2019 at 12:42 PM. Reason: time table correction (shortly later)

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    Default Re: B.Sanders & R. Reich Don't Just Want to Tax the Rich, They Want to Abolish Billio

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    Exactly. It isn't only luck; it also requires ability and effort and good ideas and all that, and you can't be a lazy drunk, but the difference between being moderately successful and getting absurdly rich is almost always luck. I'm sure there were at least 10,000 software engineers as good as Bill Gates when IBM settled on MS-DOS, but they had reasonably decent careers, and he got lucky.

    When I build my time machine, I'm going back to St. Petersburg in 1913 and buy Alisa Zinov'yevna Rosenbaum's family tickets to New York. Then in our time, no one will have ever heard of Ayn Rand, and the world will be a far, far better place.
    Those other 10,000 software engineers were looking at the same data set Gates was, and he identified the opportunity for what it was, and had the knack for exploiting that opportunity.

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    Default Re: B.Sanders & R. Reich Don't Just Want to Tax the Rich, They Want to Abolish Billio

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    Exactly. It isn't only luck; it also requires ability and effort and good ideas and all that, and you can't be a lazy drunk, but the difference between being moderately successful and getting absurdly rich is almost always luck. I'm sure there were at least 10,000 software engineers as good as Bill Gates when IBM settled on MS-DOS, but they had reasonably decent careers, and he got lucky.
    Fair enough.... but there's another side to it, as well... best expressed by the person who said:

    "Turning $100 into $110 is very difficult.... turning $100 Billion into $110 Billion is inevitable."
    "Reason and facts are sacrificed to opinion and myth. Demonstrable falsehoods are circulated and recycled as fact. Narrow minded opinion refuses to be subjected to thought and analysis. Too many now subject events to a prefabricated set of interpretations, usually provided by a biased media source. The myth is more comfortable than the often difficult search for truth."







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    Default Re: B.Sanders & R. Reich Don't Just Want to Tax the Rich, They Want to Abolish Billio

    Quote Originally Posted by amish rob View Post
    I’m pretty sure I could blow a billion dollars.

    Peace,
    You Get A House, And YOU Get A House...
    I think we could do clean drinking water and vaccinations for a few people; yeah? We could bolster schools and early childhood education, build companies hiring the poor, training them, paying them real living wages, and still probably turn a profit. I could go through Billions.
    In the US this perverted idea of “blood and soil” over “constitutional principles” is the most radical and anti-democratic and anti-Conservative idea I have heard in my lifetime.

    ~C. Ross

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    Default Re: B.Sanders & R. Reich Don't Just Want to Tax the Rich, They Want to Abolish Billio

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    Exactly. It isn't only luck; it also requires ability and effort and good ideas and all that, and you can't be a lazy drunk, but the difference between being moderately successful and getting absurdly rich is almost always luck.
    I don't know what you mean by absurdly rich, but wealth comes to the frugal as well.

    For me absurdly rich is having more income than you are willing to spend. And my kids and I are absurdly rich.
    Life is complex.

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    Default Re: B.Sanders & R. Reich Don't Just Want to Tax the Rich, They Want to Abolish Billio

    Quote Originally Posted by McMike View Post
    I think we could do clean drinking water and vaccinations for a few people; yeah? We could bolster schools and early childhood education, build companies hiring the poor, training them, paying them real living wages, and still probably turn a profit. I could go through Billions.
    You probably have some idea of HOW crazy I’d go with a bottomless exchequer, eh?

    In. Sane.

    Peace,
    Emperor For Life

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    Default Re: B.Sanders & R. Reich Don't Just Want to Tax the Rich, They Want to Abolish Billio

    It is laudable to preserve the individual rights of even the most egregious of us, even while ultimately depriving wrong-doers of theirs with due process.

    It's laudable to recognize the humanity of the person underlying their position of power and privilege, and that such a one is still deserving of their rights protection under the law, even the sociopathic type A CEO.

    Show me an oligarch where the economy and their effect on it would be any different at all if the number for personal income and wealth were never above half a billion. Jeff Bezos would still do everything he does in his personal life and business, and I'm sure with equal tenacity and vigor, if he had to donate or pay in tax, everything above half a billion. Just like a billion dollar hedge fund manager's salary should not be based on the same formula as that of a waiter. Even the most genius and gifted hedge fund manager, capable of dealing with huge accounts to successfully get the company huge revenue, doesn't really need anything more than some number of millions of dollars a year to do the same job of financial analysis for the same profit. Not anymore than paying a star baseball player hundreds of millions for ten year contract to throw a baseball is really necessary to win a game or a season, or a boxer hundreds of millions per bout.
    Last edited by Jim Mahan; 12-21-2019 at 12:22 PM.


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    Default Re: B.Sanders & R. Reich Don't Just Want to Tax the Rich, They Want to Abolish Billio

    Quote Originally Posted by amish rob View Post
    You probably have some idea of HOW crazy I’d go with a bottomless exchequer, eh?

    In. Sane.

    Peace,
    Emperor For Life
    I think we could make it a sport, who could do more. That would be a fun sport to watch!!!
    In the US this perverted idea of “blood and soil” over “constitutional principles” is the most radical and anti-democratic and anti-Conservative idea I have heard in my lifetime.

    ~C. Ross

  27. #62
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    Default Re: B.Sanders & R. Reich Don't Just Want to Tax the Rich, They Want to Abolish Billio

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    It is also possible to be smart and sell a product that costs little to produce but that people are willing to pay a lot for.
    Is that the way you do it? By being smart and overcharging?

  28. #63
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    Default Re: B.Sanders & R. Reich Don't Just Want to Tax the Rich, They Want to Abolish Billio

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoeyawl View Post
    Is that the way you do it? By being smart and overcharging?
    He is the problem, not the solution.
    In the US this perverted idea of “blood and soil” over “constitutional principles” is the most radical and anti-democratic and anti-Conservative idea I have heard in my lifetime.

    ~C. Ross

  29. #64
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    Default Re: B.Sanders & R. Reich Don't Just Want to Tax the Rich, They Want to Abolish Billio

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Mahan View Post
    It is laudable to preserve the individual rights of even the most egregious of us, even while ultimately depriving wrong-doers of theirs with due process.

    It's laudable to recognize the humanity of the person underlying their position of power and privilege, and that such a one is still deserving of their rights protection under the law, even the sociopathic type A CEO.

    Show me an oligarch where the economy and their effect on it would be any different at all if the number for personal income and wealth were never above half a billion. Jeff Bezos would still do everything he does in his personal life and business, and I'm sure with equal tenacity and vigor, if he had to donate or pay in tax, everything above half a billion. Just like a billion dollar hedge fund manager's salary should not be based on the same formula as that of a waiter. Even the most genius and gifted hedge fund manager, capable of dealing with huge accounts to successfully get the company huge revenue, doesn't really need anything more than some number of millions of dollars a year to do the same job of financial analysis for the same profit. Not anymore than paying a star baseball player hundreds of millions for ten year contract to throw a baseball is really necessary to win a game or a season, or a boxer hundreds of millions per bout.
    Exactly!!!!

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    Default Re: B.Sanders & R. Reich Don't Just Want to Tax the Rich, They Want to Abolish Billio

    Originally Posted by Jim Mahan


    ...

    Jeff Bezos would still do everything he does in his personal life and business, and I'm sure with equal tenacity and vigor, if he had to donate or pay in tax, everything above half a billion.
    as confirmed by Warren Buffet, cost of business doesn't stop business.

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    Default Re: B.Sanders & R. Reich Don't Just Want to Tax the Rich, They Want to Abolish Billio

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoeyawl View Post
    Is that the way you do it? By being smart and overcharging?
    I would like to think we have always made my money by being smart. I don't think we have ever overcharged anyone.

    If you think you are being overcharged by anyone, perhaps you should do business elsewhere.
    Life is complex.

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    Default Re: B.Sanders & R. Reich Don't Just Want to Tax the Rich, They Want to Abolish Billio

    Quote Originally Posted by amish rob View Post
    I’m pretty sure I could blow a billion dollars.

    Peace,
    You Get A House, And YOU Get A House...
    what’s a top tier eff one team cost these days?
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  33. #68
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    Default Re: B.Sanders & R. Reich Don't Just Want to Tax the Rich, They Want to Abolish Billio

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    what’s a top tier eff one team cost these days?
    You know me so well.

    Peace,
    Robert

  34. #69
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    Default Re: B.Sanders & R. Reich Don't Just Want to Tax the Rich, They Want to Abolish Billio

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Mahan View Post
    It is laudable to preserve the individual rights of even the most egregious of us, even while ultimately depriving wrong-doers of theirs with due process.

    It's laudable to recognize the humanity of the person underlying their position of power and privilege, and that such a one is still deserving of their rights protection under the law, even the sociopathic type A CEO.

    . . .
    In addition to humanizing the Billionaire variety of person, we must understand that they are somewhat like a nuclear reactor.

    They are capable of creating enormous amounts of economic energy, but if left to run away with themselves they have the potential to destroy everything.

    They are both useful, and dangerous.

    Like poets.

    Last edited by oznabrag; 12-21-2019 at 05:10 PM.

  35. #70
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    Default Re: B.Sanders & R. Reich Don't Just Want to Tax the Rich, They Want to Abolish Billio

    I confess that I am both baffled and amused.

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