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  1. #1
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    Default Jenny/ Big Jenny Website?

    Hi, I came across mentions of these boats in discussions of LFH's carpenter. There WAS a website given, but it doesn't seem to be active any more. Does anyone know of its replacement, if any, or other sources for the plans/info on them?
    Thanks,
    Chris

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Jenny/ Big Jenny Website?

    There was a WoodenBoat magazine article on this and a slight modification.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Jenny/ Big Jenny Website?

    Thanks, Ian. I’ll dig up the article.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Jenny/ Big Jenny Website?

    Any other leads, folks?

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Jenny/ Big Jenny Website?

    The "Carpenter" by L. Francis Herreshoff, is the tender to the ocean cruiser "Walrus". Both designs can be found in Sensible Crusing
    Designs by L. Francish Herreshoff. Mystic Seaport plans dept may have drawings.
    Jay

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Jenny/ Big Jenny Website?

    Yep, I've got that, Jay
    I'm interested in more info on Jenny/Big Jenny to see what's different, are there 'improvement' changes in construction etc.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Jenny/ Big Jenny Website?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Greer View Post
    The "Carpenter" by L. Francis Herreshoff, is the tender to the ocean cruiser "Walrus". Both designs can be found in Sensible Crusing
    Designs by L. Francish Herreshoff. Mystic Seaport plans dept may have drawings.
    Jay
    A brief highjack: Roger Taylor's recent LFH biography relates a curious story about Walrus's Carpenter. It was undertow (by the stern post for some reason) overnight across a rough, cold Massachusetts Bay. In the morning all that was left at the end of the painter was the sternpost, the boat having capsized or somehow filled with water and broken up. It was later found washed up on the tip of Cape Cod, from which it was returned and rebuilt. A talk was given by a speaker here in Maine who sails a Sea Pearl, based upon the Carpenter model, and his capsized and completely turned turtle (under sail) faster than he could react.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Jenny/ Big Jenny Website?

    I believe the Jenny boats were featured in the annual Small Boats issue a few years back.

    There was another thread here a while back: http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...pedition-Boats

    Tom
    You don't have to be prepared as long as you're willing to suffer the consequences.

    www.tompamperin.com

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Jenny/ Big Jenny Website?

    Yep, seen that thread, thanks, Tom - it was one of the threads which got me interested. I'm really after a replacement website, if one exists!

    Chris

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Jenny/ Big Jenny Website?

    Now that is interesting. I wonder if any of the mods made for Jenny/Big Jenny were made with this info in mind?

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Jenny/ Big Jenny Website?

    My Pappy always advocated towing our dinghy from a leward cleat just in reach of the forward end of the cockpit with the bow of the tow riding a bit high on the second or third wave aft of the stern. This kept the dinghy towing easy and not wagging its tail.
    Jay

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Jenny/ Big Jenny Website?

    Hi Guys- I have been interested in the idea of the Walrus's tender Carpenter for years and was aware of the design of LFH from Sensible Cruising Designs. My first James Caird replica we build in MonteVideo for the Shackleton movies and was reminiscent of Carpenter with her turtleback ends but bigger, about 24ft. The James Caird was not originally built to sail but later "adapted" as the story goes but needed ballast. As such she performed well for the movie and did what she was supposed to but in the end, after successfully finishing the day and all the filming at Elephant Island (that Elephant Island) we had to tow the small boats because the big ship was getting pressed by ice and swells making it impossible to hoist them aboard just then. We towed them in tandem around the island that night but the going was rough and some overfalls near the NE corner of Elephant Island swamped one of the boats and the big load parted the tow. I marked where we lost them and in daylight got back. The stem face of the JamesCaird had ripped off. She was half swamped and ballasted. One of the other boats was capsized and the third was OK but under the conditions and the temperatures and the lack of enough real boatmen, the decision was made to not try to recover. Later I build another James Caird replica and got to sail it more, even at S.Georgia. She actually sailed pretty well but you had to sort of trick her into tacking but otherwise she went along pretty well. but I digress: Earlier I lived for many years on a small island at Cape Cod from which I commuted to work most days. My most reliable transport was a Gloucester GUll but I tried other experiments.
    Alan Vaitses had built a long thin dory type (although double ended)boat similar to Carpenter with the decked ends and all but no rig. It had an outboard well which took at 10HP Johnson. She absolutely needed ballast though and had several flat pigs about 25# each in her shallow and narrow bilge. She went along nicely but having no rocker she required about 3000 ft to do a 180. She (The Eel) has ended up as a lawn ornament at a popular Cape Cod restaurant.
    But back to the Carpenter: she definitely would need that ballast, moveable or screwed to the bottom in a sheet. For all those who might want to know there is actually a film of the Walrus and the Carpenter at sea with a couple of guys rowing the Carpenter. It is not hard to imagine that if you towed the Carpenter astern of the Walrus on a roughish night that she might get swamped and so doing you could pull the stem out of her. She was owned and operated Billy Strawbridge, I think and operated out of Edgartown (Marthas Vineyard) on the swordfish chase. That film is stashed away some where within the Vineyard Gazette archives. I have seen it. Happy New Year/ JC

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Jenny/ Big Jenny Website?

    The film of the Walrus and Carpenter is here: https://vineyardgazette.com/news/201...tte-initiative

    Seems to go right along under oars.
    Or who shut up the sea with doors, when it brake forth, as if it had issued out of the womb?
    When I made the cloud the garment thereof, and thick darkness a swaddlingband for it,
    And brake up for it my decreed place, and set bars and doors,
    And said, Hitherto shalt thou come, but no further: and here shall thy proud waves be stayed?
    Job 38: 8-11

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Jenny/ Big Jenny Website?

    To the best of my knowledge, Buck Ayres who owned Lido Shipyard once owned both the "Walrus" and the "Carpenter" which was her tender at one time. However I think "Walrus" carried the name "Vagabundo" at the time he owned it or, it may have been a sister ship. My understanding was that the "Carpenter" was just basically a shore boat to transfer passengers to and from the "Walrus". Buck loved both of those boats and kept them ship shape and in Bristol Fashion! "Walrus" also served as a picket boat in the Catalina Channel during WWII. She had many service flags and chevrons painted, in miniature, on her varnished teak deck house on both sides near the weather deck entry doors. I believe that the boats also once belonged to Mr. William J. Bartholome at one time. He also owned the beautiful fifty three foot black hulled cutter "Senta" that was a show piece and then some! Every morning the crew would slosh down "Sentas" decks with salt water followed by a dusting of citric acid which turned her decks snow white!
    Ther would then be a fresh water rinse to get rid of the citric acid. When all the cleaning and brass polishing was done, one of the crew would lay a folded pale blue Terry cloth towel on the Taff rail to sheild the transom varnish from the sun! Mr. Bartholome was a very meticulous yachtsman!
    Jay
    Last edited by Jay Greer; 12-29-2019 at 06:17 PM.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Jenny/ Big Jenny Website?

    Hi Jay- referring to my #12 above: My mistake on owner of Walrus and Carpenter-it was another LFH friend and patron C.A. (Charlie) Welch who had commissioned a number of LFH designs. He owned a farm at Chappaquidick, Marthas Vineyard and sailed out of Edgartown. The film I mentioned is still in MV Gazette archives. Can be found in Vineyard Gazette Archives, look for "Walrus goes Swordfishing". I don't know about "Vagabundo" but will search a bit. If your man, Buck Ayres had another Walrus built there may be some correspondence in LFH letters. There was another built more recently, I believe , at Covey Island Works in Novas Scotia. Cheers/ JC

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Jenny/ Big Jenny Website?







    I assume this is a Carpenter/ Jenny. It looks like the mast is one piece above. It looks to me like LFH drew the gunter per plan, with a long yard, so it all still fits between the fore and aft bulkheads for rowing. Something not possible with a full length bermudan mast. She has a nice hull, similar to an Oughtred double ender, though narrower at 4'6" beam than Iain's usual 5'2"/4" sail and oar. An Alaska is about Carpenters beam, though it has a transom to fall onto, if only a high Whitehall one. She will be very easily driven, good under oar no doubt, though there is an argument for fixed seat rowing ergonomics at an inter oar span of 5'2" for a normal sized male. Because she's easily driven LFH probably can get away with the conservative sail area. A consequnce of the necessary short spars. At 69sqft it's relatively under powered to some for it's length. A 12ft/ 5 beam dinghy sail area really. Split between two masts it will lower the center of effort, but the efficiency of the package, the aft sail is pretty small it will have a high drag to lift ratio, something like a Ness Yawl/ Sooty Tern is likely a better boat for most people and has similar lines. It's a Herreshoff though, and that counts. It would be a nice sail and oar boat in the true sense, edging towards oar and aux. sail. The flat bottom an historical dory legacy, it's in effect evolving back to round bilge, like with LFH's rowboat. The turtle back will help storage and inverted recovery. The flare, decking and low wavemaking resistance should make for a dry boat.



    Last edited by Edward Pearson; 12-30-2019 at 07:51 AM.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Jenny/ Big Jenny Website?

    Edward, you are correct—that is a Carpenter, owned by Dennis Wang. He sailed her along the Maine coast for many years, including a good bit of dinghy cruising. Dennis relocated to the Pacific Northwest a few years ago; not sure if he took the boat with him. Having sailed in company with that boat in large and varied fleets during a number of Small Reach gatherings, I think your performance assessment is generally accurate.
    Last edited by John hartmann; 12-30-2019 at 08:16 AM. Reason: Punctuation

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Jenny/ Big Jenny Website?

    Quote Originally Posted by John hartmann View Post
    Edward, you are correct—that is a Carpenter, owned by Dennis Wang. He sailed her along the Maine coast for many years, including a good bit of dinghy cruising. Dennis relocated to the Pacific Northwest a few years ago; not sure if he took the boat with him. Having sailed in company with that boat in large and varied fleets during a number of Small Reach gatherings, I think your performance assessment is generally accurate.
    Compared to your Ilur, was he generally better under oar and you better sailing in a breeze John?

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Jenny/ Big Jenny Website?

    Carry water ballast and some air tanks in place of '3 passengers for a black tie dinner' and she'd probably be self righting with that narrow beam and those raised turtle backs, just like an ocean rower if you wanted to and still probably only be at her design displacement. You'd then need more motive power, but it would probably be doable even if you had to pull it out to 20ft to create more spar length between the bulkheads. If you wanted a self righting sail and oar boat still with ultra shallow draft, it would look like Carpenter.
    Last edited by Edward Pearson; 12-30-2019 at 08:36 AM.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Jenny/ Big Jenny Website?

    Michael Conger built this one glue lap. North West School Wooden Boatbuilding.

    [IMG]IMG_0464 - Port Townsend WA - 2010 Wooden Boat Festival - Herreshoff-designed CARPENTER by Old Salt, on Flickr[/IMG]

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Jenny/ Big Jenny Website?

    Just so, Edward. The Carpenter is much narrower, and has an almost three foot longer waterline, so she is easy to motivate. Ilur is a very burdensome hull, but I do not find her a chore to row. The ample rig will get her going in very little wind, and her bilges are firm enough to keep her on her feet as it breezes up. Here is another image of Dennis’ Carpenter:
    8C032FC2-EA8A-4366-B8B0-916168F6DD36.jpg

  22. #22
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    Default Re: Jenny/ Big Jenny Website?

    All that beauty is almost too much to view at one sitting!
    Nice boats guys!
    Jay

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Jenny/ Big Jenny Website?

    Just a little prod to get this topic back near the top still looking for website info!

  24. #24
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    Default Re: Jenny/ Big Jenny Website?

    What I would do. If the website is gone, is get ahold of the Woodenboat magazine article it’s good, if you don’t have it already. The. I would track done the principle people and contact them directly.
    "Yeah, well, that's just, like your opinion man"
    -The Dude-

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