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Thread: Campion Apple 16 Build

  1. #36
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    Default Re: Campion Apple 16 Build

    Sweet! Mr Dunderdale's plans are extremely detailed. He seems like a really nice guy too!

  2. #37
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    Default Re: Campion Apple 16 Build

    Still wondering if anyone has any feedback on the centerboard idea from two posts ago... otherwise, I'll be going ahead with it!

    A little more progress:

    Fill coat on the transom tapes (the whole hull will be glassed, so I'm not being too picky about where they join).



    Then I started on the stem. I realized later that I didn't follow the directions, which only have you glassing the hull to the outer stem (which has been glued to the end grain). I, instead, first glassed the plywood ends first -- oops! Also, to make my life an extra nightmare, I taped it down, as it was pulling away from the plywood creating air bubbles. Getting the tape off later was a lot of fun!



    Then I sanded that all down (to get rid of any tape residue, and create a good bonding surface) and glued the outer stem piece to it.



    Once that had cured fully, I started trimming it -- it is supposed to be narrowed "to a fine edge" for the lower 300mm. Not totally sure what that means, but I did a bit of work to get it at least more towards the curve with the plywood:



    And then spent a long time sanding the chines tapes, which I'd been putting off (I only got through about half of them...)



    Next I'll finish up sanding, then do some fairing with epoxy -- especially near the bow, this is really needed. Then the next step is the keel and skeg, which requires finalizing the centerboard decisions.

  3. #38
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    Default Re: Campion Apple 16 Build

    So as I described in another thread, I ended up really not liking what I had done at the bottom of the outer stem. The plans didn't mention anything about it, and when I asked the designer he said to chamfer the bottom 300mm. Perhaps I did a bad job of that, but anyway, I decided, in the end, to essentially just have it go straight down, rounding the corners. Perhaps I'll lose a fraction of a percent of speed, but I don't really care -- it looks better to me!

    This involved first building the stem back up with thin strips of the same mahogany that I had left over from when I was ripping the plank originally and then planing it square. This will be a fully painted boat (I don't have the skill, or desire, to do work precise enough to varnish!), and thus, this will be undetectable. Then I added glass tape onto the stem, and glass along the keel after flattening a spot where the false keel would glue on:





    And then glued on the keel strip, which is the same roughly 20mm square mahogany. This was probably the riskiest thing I had done in the build so far, but I didn't feel like putting temporary screws into it, so I instead balanced some various heavy things on top: towards the bow, this was a bit nerve wracking:



    (the photo is a little hard to see, but those cinder blocks are probably 6" wide, and balanced in the square top of the keel which is <1" wide). But, it was wide enough, and no earthquakes happened over night, so all was well to plane it down flat the next day. There may have been less planing needed if I was able to screw it down, as the weights didn't put that much pressure and some spots were higher on one side than the other, but there was plenty of epoxy in the joint, so no real harm:



    Then, a fillet along the joint, a bit more fairing epoxy, and the bottom of the boat is pretty much done (minus sanding that stuff down), for now:



    I mentioned earlier I was trying to decide about the centerboard. I did some drawings, and sent the ideas to the designer. He, as it turned out, had some old drawings for a centerboard, and digitized them and sent them to me. They more-or-less matched what I was trying to do, which was use the same sized slot in the bottom of the boat and basically the same sized case as in the daggerboard boat, as that is a long case that allows multiple daggerboard positions for different rigs (which I won't have). So, if you are considering building an Apple, know that there are plans for a centerboard (two options, actually, for slightly different shaped cases), which I'll be using as I go along.

    In the instructions, he has you install the daggerboard case while the hull is upside down and glass the whole boat at this point, but I decided I'd rather flip it over and work on stuff with the boat right side up, and come back to glassing the hull later on, so over it went, quite easily (the hull is still quite light):



    And that's where we are now (92 hours total into the build, if anyone is curious)!

  4. #39
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    Default Re: Campion Apple 16 Build

    Quote Originally Posted by dbp1 View Post
    So as I described in another thread, I ended up really not liking what I had done at the bottom of the outer stem. The plans didn't mention anything about it, and when I asked the designer he said to chamfer the bottom 300mm. Perhaps I did a bad job of that, but anyway, I decided, in the end, to essentially just have it go straight down, rounding the corners. Perhaps I'll lose a fraction of a percent of speed, but I don't really care -- it looks better to me!

    This involved first building the stem back up with thin strips of the same mahogany that I had left over from when I was ripping the plank originally and then planing it square. This will be a fully painted boat (I don't have the skill, or desire, to do work precise enough to varnish!), and thus, this will be undetectable. Then I added glass tape onto the stem, and glass along the keel after flattening a spot where the false keel would glue on:





    And then glued on the keel strip, which is the same roughly 20mm square mahogany. This was probably the riskiest thing I had done in the build so far, but I didn't feel like putting temporary screws into it, so I instead balanced some various heavy things on top: towards the bow, this was a bit nerve wracking:



    (the photo is a little hard to see, but those cinder blocks are probably 6" wide, and balanced in the square top of the keel which is <1" wide). But, it was wide enough, and no earthquakes happened over night, so all was well to plane it down flat the next day. There may have been less planing needed if I was able to screw it down, as the weights didn't put that much pressure and some spots were higher on one side than the other, but there was plenty of epoxy in the joint, so no real harm:



    Then, a fillet along the joint, a bit more fairing epoxy, and the bottom of the boat is pretty much done (minus sanding that stuff down), for now:



    I mentioned earlier I was trying to decide about the centerboard. I did some drawings, and sent the ideas to the designer. He, as it turned out, had some old drawings for a centerboard, and digitized them and sent them to me. They more-or-less matched what I was trying to do, which was use the same sized slot in the bottom of the boat and basically the same sized case as in the daggerboard boat, as that is a long case that allows multiple daggerboard positions for different rigs (which I won't have). So, if you are considering building an Apple, know that there are plans for a centerboard (two options, actually, for slightly different shaped cases), which I'll be using as I go along.

    In the instructions, he has you install the daggerboard case while the hull is upside down and glass the whole boat at this point, but I decided I'd rather flip it over and work on stuff with the boat right side up, and come back to glassing the hull later on, so over it went, quite easily (the hull is still quite light):



    And that's where we are now (92 hours total into the build, if anyone is curious)!
    The boat is coming along nice.

  5. #40
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    Default Re: Campion Apple 16 Build

    Looking good, keep it up!

  6. #41
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    Default Re: Campion Apple 16 Build

    Next were the inner gunwales, which were pretty straightforward -- I already had the strips of eastern white pine from when I was making the outer gunwales (which is good as cutting 16ft strips requires practically rolling my table saw out of the garage!). It was 20mm total (22mm actually, based on what I had cut), but in two strips, but rather than gluing and screwing them separately, I did it in one pass (glue between both layers, of course, but only one set of screws, and much less time overall).



    It ends up being a pretty thick rail, which I guess is good if I'll be hiking out -- 40mm + 6mm + 22mm = 68mm, which in my english brain is over 2.5".

    I then made the breasthook. The plans said to just use 12mm plywood (6mm doubled), set underneath the inner gunwale, but as with the quarter knees, I decided I'd rather have a shapely (to the extent of my abilities) one set at the level of the gunwales. I marked a plywood template, cut and recut until it more-or-less fit, and then cut it out of mahogany:




    But, I _am_ lazy, and am going to paint everything (including the gunwales, breasthook, etc), so I didn't bother to cut bevels -- just made sure it fit in well enough, added plenty of thickened epoxy and put some plastic below so it wouldn't drip out. A belt sander and planer afterwards will clean it up, and all will be well. Also, while we're looking at this, I think I'm going to cut off the nose at around where the "outer breasthook" (i.e., my fix for the outer gunwales not going far enough) goes in and out again. A flat nose seems fine, and I think it'll be a nice shape cut around there.

    Then the next task was to sand all of the inner tape segments, in preparation for full-length seam taping. Mostly, this meant sanding the edges where the tape was sometimes a little bumped up, as the segments are 2" and what is going over them is 3", but I also was cleaning up the places where epoxy dripped if I had too much, and did a tiny bit over the tape in general. I was going into the weave, but I wasn't too worried because these pieces of tape had essentially served their purpose: the tape that is going over is going to be the main structural piece on the inside, so if I weaken it a little it should be fine. This was not fun, but sanding isn't generally, and less so when leaning over.



    And then I started laying out the full-length tapes (more fun!). The plans call for doing two layers of overlapping tape on the keel line and the first chine, and a single layer on the upper two. I've done all of that in the rear of the boat, and gotten the first layer on the keel and chine one in the middle of the boat.


  7. #42
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    Default Re: Campion Apple 16 Build

    Looking great Keep the pictures coming please!

    in regards to your centerboard question. I would go with a high aspect board offset to one side. Next to the seat. If you want it out of the way. I would want the best pointing ability, and I like the idea of the board slot not being in the grounding out section. But your plan of doing a shorter wider board would work. I am not an expert on this, just going with what I have read. I have had very good experiences with long skinny boards though.
    "Yeah, well, that's just, like your opinion man"
    -The Dude-

  8. #43
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    Default Re: Campion Apple 16 Build

    Gut feeling is that this is going to be a very strong boat. As for painting, heck, I dunno. You could paint everything but the rails, breasthook and seat tops and that wouldn't be too much maintenance.

  9. #44
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    Default Re: Campion Apple 16 Build

    I am watching this thread, as I always liked this design....

  10. #45
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    Default Re: Campion Apple 16 Build

    Well, it's been a long time since I've updated this -- mostly because in early April, I became a parent, and as a result, had other things on my mind! But recently, I've been back working on the boat, albeit in very short intervals (which the parts I'm doing now lend themselves to -- luckily no big glassing or painting on the horizon). I left off right before finishing the full-length glass taping, which ended up here:



    And then I cleaned up the breasthook, which I had left proud so that I could have it curve to follow the shear (as the gunwales are not flat but sloping down):



    There are some gaps in the gluing, and I need to decide where to cut the front, and I also realized I shaped the back of the breasthook the opposite way that they are normally shaped, which I may fix (there is no big hurry, though it would have been easier to scribe a curve while it was still flat -- doh!).

    Then I switched to working on the bow tank. First order of business is cutting the bulkhead. The tank is recessed, with little knees on the sides:



    Then I needed to make the mast step structure. This is where I'm diverging from the plans -- I like the mast gate that Iain Oughtred uses, so replicated that, and as a result, decided to put in a full king plank beneath the deck (the Apple plans have a couple options that give structure along these lines, but they aren't continuous with the mast partner, which is instead built out of a combination of ply and timber):



    The rest of the supports were essentially followed according to the plans, though as I've done before, I sometimes substituted timber for ply, e.g., in a knee connecting the king plank to the support going down to the keel:



    I then scribed out the deck tops, which based on use of ply (which I'm trying to keep low!), is in two parts:


  11. #46
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    Default Re: Campion Apple 16 Build

    (Hit the image limit, continuing)

    And cut and fit it, making a "mock mast" to check that the partner seemed to work with the correct 4 degree rake:



    Finally, I cut a hole for a hatch and put in reinforcement for it, and again, to conserve ply, I cut the reinforcement out of four separate pieces (I made a template because there will be a bunch of hatches eventually!):



    Now it is time to start gluing in the framing and coating the tan and top in preparation for painting (it'll get painted white to make it easier to see). I also put in the fiberglass along the inner stem which I hadn't done before because I needed to put in bigger fillets but that's not really visible!



    (the observant eye might notice there is a gap in the top framing... that was a mistake caused by moving fast, the framing is so soft that the screws from the outside from the dry fit made new holes when I attached it after adding the glue, and I didn't notice until the next day. I'll fill it before the tank top goes on, not that it probably matters! The other end was a bigger problem, as it caused an overlap with where the king plank would go, but nothing a multi-tool with saw, a tool _made_ for my style of woodworking, couldn't fix!)


  12. #47
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    Default Re: Campion Apple 16 Build

    Congrats on becoming a father.

    Nice to see an update on your build again.

  13. #48
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    Default Re: Campion Apple 16 Build

    And, the bow tank is sealed up and nearly done (just need to add fillets on the top edge and some reinforcements to the "knees"). I painted the inside (as well as three coats of epoxy) to make it easier to see things that are inside. I'm using System 3 water based paints and their epoxy based primer. It was also a place to start getting used to them in a place that really doesn't matter (reflecting light is pretty much the only thing the finish needs to do!), though the roughness of the epoxy finish did make sanding down, when I had to do it (between paint and primer and when I wasn't able to get back within the recoat window), a pain. Overall, I like the paint a lot: it dries quickly, flows nicely, and develops a pretty nice finish without much effort (the inside of the tank is a worse example than the tops, which aren't pictured!)

    I glued in the king plank before painting, as I was worried about the bonding surface, though it was probably a mistake, as it made it more of a pain to paint towards the bow (and painting the underside was a nightmare, done with a mirror. Also, this photo (which shows the primer) needs some explanation: the little bumped out bit is because I haven't yet decided on deck hardware: if I go with a normal big cleat (8" or so), then its not necessary, but if I use a 4" bollard instead (i.e., a fake samson post), then the king plank isn't wide enough (oops -- shouldn't have cut it so narrow!), so to allow for either decision I added that side piece.



    I put 2 coats of primer and 3 coats of paint on the tops, which were smooth, and 4 coats of paint inside the boat, which was rougher and so didn't take the paint quite as well.



    And then a lot of thickened epoxy on all the bearing surfaces and a bunch of weights (and some screws to pull it down) and it's permanently attached.


    I've started working on the centerboard case, where the first task was to make a mock version of the centerboard (to make sure all the dimensions of the case were right, and it would swing through, as Tom drew up the dimensions for me from some old sketches!).



    This way, I can check the sizes of the side of the case before I make any cuts. It's also important because I'm again slightly deviating from the plans, as I want a centerboard that drops in from the top and pivots in slots of either side of the case, and, among other changes, this means a slightly larger gauge pivot pin (perhaps unnecessary, but I thought it best to follow the gauge used by a centerboard of this design, Vivier's ILUR, which is ~1/2", rather than specified by Tom, ~3/8"). I also spent a little bit of time working on templates for the stern tanks/seat (no pictures), though I think I'm going to finish the centercase (and perhaps thwarts that go with it) before actually building it.

  14. #49
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    Default Re: Campion Apple 16 Build

    A brief exciting aside: a while back in the build, I build a pair of low rolling saw horses, and the boat has been on them ever since. It's convenient to be able to push the boat back and forth, as my "boat shop" is not that large! But, the bottom of the boat is not flat, and the tops of the saw horses are, which is a bit of a problem. At some point, I cut a few 2x4s to match the transom profile and shoved them on the rear saw horse, and more-or-less forgot about it. Until a few weeks ago, when, during one of my pushing the boat back sessions, the back of the boat fell off the saw horse and crashed to the (concrete) floor. The two-foot fall did no damage, which is nice reassurance, as it means the glassed seams are quite strong! And the boat is only going to get stronger (with more bulkheads, floors, knees, and a full layer of glass on the outside). But, I didn't really like the experience, so spent a little bit of time transforming the saw horses into slightly more proper cradles. I should have done this in the first place, but oh well!




    As to the actual progress, I ended up taking a detour from the centerboard trunk (that I'm still on) towards the stern, and have been working on the rear tanks. Before I did that, I did cut out the holes and cut the profile on the central bulkhead (the centerboard trunk will butt against this on the front, and a thwart will go across behind it; side tanks will run from it to the rear, hence the cutouts ending halfway):



    Back to the stern; since this is a lug yawl, there is a mizzen. The plans are, as usual, somewhat overlapping and confusing, but from some comments and extrapolations, I think what I'm doing is sensible: essentially, there are two rear tanks that are sealed, and an open channel between them. That channel forms both the transom knees and also contains, at the bottom, the mizzen step, so it can drain into the bilge, and at the top, the mast partner. The whole thing is covered by the stern seat. I've cut the plywood for all of this, and most of the framing, and I've started on the step and partner. I've done all the patterning with cardboard, which seems to work well enough. I scribe individual pieces and tape them to larger pieces to get precise (enough) templates for places like this. Some places no taping is necessary (essentially if multiple sides are open).



    This photo shows tho channel where the mizzen mast will go and water can drain out:



    And with the seat on (missing the hole of course):


  15. #50
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    Default Re: Campion Apple 16 Build

    One thing that wasn't on the plans was the actual position of the step and the rake (which determines the position of the partner), but quick consultation with the designer gave the answer (125mm from transom and 5.75 degrees). I wanted to be sure about the size of the hole in the step, but I decided, from the beginning, that I would do the minimum necessary to get to a rowboat first, which means not making masts! So, instead I made a mock mast stub. I also used this as an opportunity to practice cutting and gluing birdsmouth pieces, which I've never done before. The stub is 500mm, which is tall enough to get past the gunwales (and thus well through the partner), and it has a protruding plug, as I plan the actual mast to have, where the step should have a hole for that plug. The one I made is from a scrap of construction grade 2x4, which is obviously not what I'm intending to use, but it came out surprisingly well even so (I guess it's almost a composite construction!). I'm waiting on my "leathering" (I'm planning on using gaff tape), so I can get the thickness more-or-less right before cutting the partner holes, and then I can finish the partner, step, and then start dry-fitting the whole stern assembly.

    Obviously this is totally standard, but still fun to do! I used the duckworks calculator, using 60mm as outside, 48mm as inside (so 20% wall thickness, as specified), and 8 sides (to get 45mm angles so I could cut them on the table saw) -- these are the dimensions specified for the mizzenmast. Then, to check that I could do a taper, I tweaked the settings to get the same width of piece (as thinning them over the length would be hard), but have an outer diameter of 50mm (which is what the top of the mizzenmast should be). This resulted in ~20mm rather than ~24mm, all other dimensions unchanged. It results in a slightly thicker wall (~25%) but still plenty lighter, and it's easy to do the thinning (as I can clamp all the pieces with the birdthsmouth down, draw the taper on the edge and plane the backs down). I tested the taper over my 500mm, which would obviously be much less gradual than will actually be needed, but it all worked.





    The two issues that I noticed is that I didn't use quite enough epoxy (I sort of noticed this but, given it was a prototype, wanted to see if the amount I had was enough), so some of the joints were a little loose, and having the mast be straight as it tapers will be a little tricky -- as I need whatever surface it is on to match the taper, as otherwise it will likely slant towards the way it was leaning as it dried.

  16. #51
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    Default Re: Campion Apple 16 Build

    Nice progress and posts, keep them coming.
    "Yeah, well, that's just, like your opinion man"
    -The Dude-

  17. #52
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    Default Re: Campion Apple 16 Build

    So I realize it's been a while since I've posted any non-detail shots! So, here are two that give a sense of what the overall boat is looking like, with bow tank installed and rear tank mocked out (the oars, btw, are much too small -- I had clamped extensions to them to test out storage locations but took them off as they were in the way!):





    I haven't made a ton of progress -- mostly been working on the mizzen step and partner, which I've roughly cut (aside from the hole in the tank top, but want to place that with a router once everything else has been glued down permanently). I need to file it all down to fit precisely (at the correct right angle -- the ruler marks where the center of the mizzen should go), and then start gluing the whole stern assembly.



    I also cut the breasthook to the right shape, and cut the nose of the boat! It needs a little bit of fine tuning, but this is essentially finished!



    And that's all for now!

  18. #53
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    Default Re: Campion Apple 16 Build

    Today marks 150 hours into the build. In some ways, it feels like a lot, but in others, it's not that much given how much of the boat seems done!

    I broke down the log and, roughly (I didn't categorize a couple hours), this went into:

    Hull: 62 hours
    Gunwales / quarter knees: 27.75
    Outer stem / front of keel: 12.75
    Bow tank / mast partner: 27
    Centercase (not finished yet): 6
    Stern tank / mizzen step & partner (not finished yet): 13

    Of that, there were at least 5 hours completely wasted on the gunwales due to poor wood selection, but otherwise all of the hours represent forward progress on the build. Obviously everyone works at different speeds, has different tools, and _most importantly_, has different standards in terms of perfection!

    Part of the recent time was spent on cutting out the centercase and framing for it -- none of it is glued, but having it clamped together allowed me to put mock thwarts in and get a sense, for the first time, of what the interior layout might look like. I eventually decided that I think I want to have thwarts wrapping around the rear, but nothing ahead of the mid-ship bulkhead, and instead to have floorboards (which I've been thinking about for a while); that'll allow sitting on the sole comfortably, better storage up front, happier options for kids or pets who might not want to be up on a thwart, etc. Here are a few photos, which also give a sense of the centercase:






    The other thing I've been working on is the stern mizzen assembly. I finally got a curved rasp, which was critical to cut the rake into the mast step and partner. I took the angle off of the boat, using the measurements for offsets given by the designer (he gave an offset at half a meter up), cut a measuring piece, and used that as a guide for using the rasp.



    I also started gluing on stringers and epoxy coating the mizzen step, partner, transom, etc. It's obviously easier to do as much coating as possible before things go onto the boat. With the stiffeners and stringers on and a single coat on the transom, it looks like (the reason why the middle of the upper stringer is thicker is I initially planned on an open rear, and that was the only stiffener that would be needed in that case. Given the reinforcement that the stern tanks will give, I figured the smaller stringers would be fine to extend to the corners):


  19. #54
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    Default Re: Campion Apple 16 Build

    I've continued working mostly on the stern tank / mizzen partner&step, with a little bit on the centerboard case when there is slack time. I wanted to leave room for both floorboards and the possibility of rear side tanks in the future, and so put the rear tank hatches as far into the upper-inner corners as possible, but in doing so made a bit of a mistake: I didn't account for the 20mm framing that will be along both edges. I realized this as I was measuring to fit the reinforcement rings. I don't really have extra ply, or any desire to redo these, and it's not actually a problem, as the hatches (Armstrong) have a single arm that presses against the ring on the inside, pressurizing the sealing ring on the outside. That means that there just has to be a 180 degree place for the arms to reach, which there is (two actually) -- which makes putting the hatches in a little more finicky than it should have been, but oh well!



    Then I put three coats of epoxy on everything in the stern (just the "inside" -- i.e., surfaces that won't be accessible once the tank is glued together) and started painting. I've now put two coats of primer on:





    And have started with the paint:



    There are a few places I'll need to sand back for gluing, but I taped off the easy spots.

    While that was happening, I also cut the pin slot in the centercase sides:



    And added a plywood doubler:



    (Mizzen step getting glued together also). The general design comes from Vivier (though I think I saw somewhere that it was used by Atkin? Or some other classic designer...), and the boat I know the most about it being used on is the Ilur, which uses 3/8" ply I believe, so I thought it would be better to give the pin more bearing surface than 1/4". I'm also planning on glassing the inside of the slot (not sure if any Ilur owners are around to chime in whether that is part of the design, or if just epoxy over wood has been enough? Obviously this is not a place I want to get back into), and then once it is all set, adding a hardwood outer cap. The pin, again following Vivier, is 1/2" silicon bronze.

  20. #55
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    Default Re: Campion Apple 16 Build

    I've been silently following along.
    Things are looking great!
    I was born on a wooden boat that I built myself.

  21. #56
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    Default Re: Campion Apple 16 Build

    Thanks!

    It really is a neat design — I’m constantly surprised that more people haven’t built them (or at least, and written about it!) — seems to be right in the sweet spot with a lot of more popular boats (GIS, Phoenix III, CIY, Argie 15, etc) — two sheets of plywood long, but still simple enough to not cost too much or take too long to build, never mind weigh too much to make hauling around a pain! And the design is older than the GIS.

    Maybe Tom needs to spend a little more time marketing! (or at least, make his website less of a scavenger hunt).

  22. #57
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    Default Re: Campion Apple 16 Build

    At this point, I've finished the stern tank / mizzen step&partner assembly (current hour count: 176.5).

    That involved gluing/filleting in the tank sides and top support beams (beams are just epoxy coated, while the faces are also painted to make it easier to see inside):



    Then gluing in the mizzen partner (which is multiple layers; solid wood and plywood, with the raked hole cut in it), and building and gluing & screwing the rudder post. The rudder post is put in before the mizzen partner, and before the tank top goes in, because putting the screws in from the inside would be a lot harder once access is only through the channel between the tanks! Tom advised using the vertical rudder based on the centerboard, hence the angled rudder post (to compensate for the raked transom), which is also what Matt Bowser (another builder) suggested (based on having it pop off entirely when hitting the bottom, rather than flipping up).



    Then the tank top and faces went on (with plenty of screws to hold in down):



    And then I cut the hole, using a router on one side (where the flush trim bit would follow the partner), and a keyhole saw + rasp for everything else:



    I also finished up the centerboard case, gluing on all the external framing:



    As a somewhat aside, this week I'm on the water for a week (so no work on the Apple), so I pulled out the PDR I built a couple years ago. Since I knew I would be rowing it a bit (with a centerboard in, it's a surprisingly decent rowboat!), I build a proper drop-in rowing seat for it: 8.5" below and 13" behind the oarlocks. This photo was when I mocked it at deck level, which was way too high (hence looking up guidance and finding the 8.5" suggestion), but it's fun to see them side-by-side.


  23. #58
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Zbigit
    Posts
    2,204

    Default Re: Campion Apple 16 Build

    Great progress, and 150 hours? That seems fast to me. NICE!

  24. #59
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Posts
    95

    Default Re: Campion Apple 16 Build

    So I got a bit distracted -- spent several months cutting up the aforementioned PDR and laminating the cut up hull into frames to build this:



    (Long story short: it's too heavy --120lbs-- to easily go on top of the car, and if I'm going to use a trailer, it's going to be for _this_ boat, so it eventually seemed pointless to have. I really don't like wasting things, so the idea of just cutting it up and throwing it out seemed terrible, and it's also not such a nice boat that I thought anyone would actually want it, so... re-use. Kind of). I also made a timelapse of the entire building process, which was fun:



    Back to the Apple. I'm up to 196 hours, so a bit has happened. I put in the centerboard case, which is done in a different way than I think is typical -- the slot is cut and then the case is dropped clear through -- then the overlap will be trimmed below the boat later. the gap between the case and the slot is filled with thickened epoxy, and filler pieces ensure that the case is kept wide enough through this process. From the top, it looks pretty normal, aside from the stiffeners screwed into the hull to support cutting the slot, etc:



    Then I started working on frame 7, which goes along to meet the front of the case. It can be made up of multiple pieces of plywood, which is good because at this point I'm running out of large pieces and don't really want to go through the trouble of getting more. It'll eventually be multiple layers, with some hardwood reinforcement, but starts out with a cardboard template!



    After building that frame, I started working on the floors. By this time, I decided, finally, that I wanted to put in floorboards, so would have evenly spaced (at all stations) floors that have level tops. I first thought they would only go out to chine 1, but realized once I put them in that this didn't make sense. I considered, briefly, attaching extensions, but realized that this was _not_ a place to compromise strength. The final pieces, also in white oak, are still to be built.



    Along side that I was figuring out floorboard layout. The floorboards are ipe, which is very heavy, but it seems like really nice wood for the purpose, and the weight is pretty low so hopefully it'll be okay (I'm certainly not trying to save weight overall -- one remaining thing to figure out is how exactly I'm going to add ballast, which I need to the tune of 100-200lbs).



    And, concurrent, I've been working on the thwarts. There won't be any forward of the main thwart, but rear, they will run along the sides. As you can also see in the main thwart, my large pieces of plywood were mostly out, but, wanting to conserve, I realized I had plenty if I carefully layed out what I had and then butt joined with glass (2 layers each side, 3" over 2", just like the hull strakes). It'll all get sanded down and painted, and should be as strong as the 1/4" plywood.



    That more-or-less gets us up to current. Various work on supporting knees, stringers, etc, goes along with the rest. It seems to be in the second "fast" period where it is rapidly starting to look finished (the first fast period was the hull going together) -- with all the furniture in there, I can really picture what it's going to feel like. Interestingly, I had given up on the idea of someone being able to sleep on the boat, but since I wanted to use boat rollers as floatation underneath the rear thwarts, I extended the cutout underneath the main thwart all the way to the edge, and that gives a 7' flat space on the floorboards that is plenty wide enough, albeit with a thwart on top in the middle (though there are ~4' behind it, which might by comfortable? Remains to be seen).

  25. #60
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    omaha, ne. usa
    Posts
    67

    Default Re: Campion Apple 16 Build

    Looks realiy good. I am new here and really appreciate your posting. Hope to be posting pics of my project soon.

  26. #61
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Posts
    95

    Default Re: Campion Apple 16 Build

    Thanks — I look forward to it! I find this forum so useful (aside from a few books and occasionally asking questions of the designer, my main way of making decisions is searching through old threads!).

  27. #62
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Charleston, SC
    Posts
    273

    Default Re: Campion Apple 16 Build

    Lookin good! I didn't know this boat was ballasted. Thought it was a lightweight planing dinghy...

  28. #63
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Posts
    95

    Default Re: Campion Apple 16 Build

    Not external ballast (it still has a dinghy hull shape) — something inside — sand, lead pigs, water bags? The designer specs it as 75-125Kg, which may be more than I end up doing, but we will see — the floorboards, while not ideally located, already add at least 30Kg.

    But its all optional — basically, the boat will sail well either with or without the ballast — without, it certainly will be easier to get to plane, but comes with the corresponding excitement sailing (and he gives some warnings about sailing solo without any ballast). My general preference is a little more relaxed (if I don’t have to spend all my time on the rails, I’d be happy). Especially with others who aren’t sailors on board...

  29. #64
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Charleston, SC
    Posts
    273

    Default Re: Campion Apple 16 Build

    Got it. They sell some very heavy bags filled with lead/ammo for boats that want adjustable trim (such as for wake boarding) They are nice because they are nylon with handles so not too hard to move around. Friend of mine used them in bow of a contender and gave me some extras. Lead takes up the least amount of space but water is nice for obvious reasons- the biggest one maybe that when capsized it's weight is cancelled.

  30. #65
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Posts
    95

    Default Re: Campion Apple 16 Build

    Work progresses. I recut the floors out of white oak. Per the designers specs, they are 18mm (he said 15-18mm).



    Then, in order to make sure that the tops were totally level (as, unlike many parts of this boat, this is not a place where epoxy can hide mistakes, as the floorboards will be either screwed or held down with toggles -- not glued!), I cut out the rest of the floorboards and set them in. The outside corner of the frontmost ones will need to be cut so they can move forward a bit, which I haven't done yet, but the overall shape is there. There will be some gaps around the edges, especially towards the rear, but I'm not too worried -- the intent was to make a level platform, not to prevent anything from slipping below. (and, if it really annoys me, I can add more floorboards -- but this uses all the stock I have! I always overbuy, but this time, I seriously underestimated what I would need!).



    I then planed, sanded, and glued in all the floors, as well as frame 7 (pictured below), which connects near the front of the centercase (right ahead of where the pivot point is, so maximum load point). The latter I essentially just tacked in, gluing at the top and bottom, and all of them will need filleting later. I used most of the floorboards, with cinderblocks, etc, on top of the frames as weights, to hold them down while they cured, and butted them against frame 7 to be sure it was on the right plane.




    One complication towards the stern. I had planned, for various reasons, to have open rear side thwarts, and to put inflatable beach rollers underneath. This would serve both as floatation, but also they could be removed and used to roll the boat up onto a beach, when needed (or, rocky shore, as the case is more often around here). But, I was careless and had thought I measured the size of them, but definitely didn't, as they extend _past_ frame 4, which is the natural end of the rear side thwarts. They end before the end of the main thwart, however, so by widening the cutout in frame 4, the roller fits underneath, more-or-less, and doesn't extend into the front area of the boat:



    However, they really are quite large, and as a result, in order to fit under the thwart, the thwart knees need to be pretty skinny, _and_ the floorboards are somewhat of a problem. Behind frame 4 (the rear of the main thwart), that's not a problem, as the floorboards don't extend that far abeam, but I have a floorboard that goes from the front and butts against frame 4 -- and there isn't a good other option for it. I think that it will fit, but it's going to be not quite the neat, simple solution that I was hoping for, and so I think I'm going to eventually just ditch them and seal in the rear side thwarts into tanks. I'll need to get some more plywood for the rudder case anyway, so I'll probably just get enough to close those up at the same time. That'll resolve the much more nerve wracking thing, which is that I'm really not confident about these knees:



    They will be doubled, so 12mm, and there are two (one that overlaps with each floor), and I also put an almost 1" square douglas fir stringer under the front edge (set back 1/4" anticipating closing it in later):



    And, finally, I'm going to put a knee coming down from the inwale in the middle, again 12mm. So, I hope it will be fine (at least for the couple month duration when I'm using the boat as a rowboat), but we'll see -- I'm certainly not qualified to be making these decisions, so I'll be happy when it is all sealed in (and, the upside is what when that happens, the knees being very small will be a good thing, as they won't obscure resulting tanks as much!

  31. #66
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Posts
    95

    Default Re: Campion Apple 16 Build

    Progress continues... trying to _slightly_ pick up the pace, as I'm aiming to splash the boat (as a rowboat, but fully painted, etc) the second week of June... I glued all the knees together for the rear side thwarts.

    There are two below the thwart (running from the thwart down to slightly overlap with the floor), and the two on the right are above the middle of the thwart coming down from the gunwale.



    I glued the bottom ones into the boat, along with knees / support beams for the main thwart, and did a lot of filleting on the floors (there is still one half of one floor to fillet):



    Then I started working on finishing the undersides of the thwarts. Epoxying & painting the underside of surfaces is no fun, so I marked out where the bearing surfaces are (using sharpie rather than my usual pencil -- a big improvement!), and I've gotten three coats of epoxy, two coats of primer (System 3 WR-LPU primer), and now two coats of paint (System 3 WR-LPU) on. I may need to do another coat of paint -- we'll see once it dries (it certainly doesn't need it for protection, it would just be for looks). This photo is after the first coat of paint, I think...



    Then, I switched to working on the mast step. I'm going to delay putting in the two (or three?) layers of 6mm ply that have the 60mm hole for the mast end until I have the mast, as I want to ensure that the rake is correct and more importantly, that it is definitely straight (I have a mock stub that's a few feet long, but...), but am putting in the structural parts below. I cut triangles out of oak that fit the hull (which becomes deeper the farther forward), making cardboard templates. Then on top of that stack of 10 pieces of oak (each were 15 or 20 mm thick), I put a flat piece of oak. This all got bedded with a _lot_ of epoxy, and it'll get filleted and completely coated. I'll paint it now, and then later I'll just sand off the top to glue on the plywood pieces that'll catch the mast end.



    Finally, I added reinforcement stringers along the side of the centercase. These are called out in the plans, but in my case, they will also serve to help hold down the innermost floorboards, which will not be screwed in (I thought about trying to just tuck them under these stringers but that seemed like it would be too tight of a fit, so I'm going to have toggles on the side of the beams that turn down to hold the floorboards, which are about a half inch below the stringers). It would be nice to have clamps with larger arms, but, oh well!


  32. #67
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Posts
    95

    Default Re: Campion Apple 16 Build

    One thing I forgot to mention -- as I was mocking up the mast, I became a little worried that the rake meant that the mast gate that I had made out of wood might not fit (a raked mast, of course, requires a wider slot than a vertical one!). The mast partner is part of a single piece of wood that continues under the foredeck as a king-plank of sorts, so it's not easy to replace, but I realized that a simple solution (simple is good!) is to instead put pins on either side and use some sort of cord across the front. This will probably support the raked mast well. So I wanted to fill in the little cutouts that I had (you can see the details of this in #48), and then, because it seemed like that might weaken things a little, and the partner was set below the foredeck anyway, I put a plywood cap on top. Here's a photo of gluing that together -- I then just ran a router with a trim bit around the inside to cut out the hole, and when I complete the mast step I'll decide where the pins should go:



    Then I glued in the side thwarts and main thwarts, clamping at the outboard edge and attaching with temporary screws at the inboard (into the stringers that support the thwarts). I also stuck the upper thwart knees on top:



    Once those cured, I ran small fillets around the edges -- not so much structural (though of course they help), since they are sitting on stringers, to prevent water. I also took the opportunity (before filleting) to hop in the boat, and was really happy to find that the side thwarts felt very secure -- not even the least bit of flexing.



    This is kind of a fun moment, because aside from glass on the outside, and to some extent the floorboards, there is nothing more structural that will be added to the boat, so the stiffness if feels inside is good! -- it's almost all finishing from now until it hits the water in oars-only version (slight exaggeration, since there are some outer keel and skeg pieces to go on as well). The boat does feel very solid, and I am very curious how much it weighs! Certainly it'll be above the designers weight (because of the oak floors, and even more, the floorboards), but I wonder if it'll be above 300lbs (as it was spec'ed and ~200lbs to original no solid wood).

    Finally, on advice from this forum, I'm planning on running a line just below the rails on the inside, to attach things to. I put holes through the frames / knees that exist to test, and found that the curve of the hull forward, and the fact that there isn't a vertical piece of plywood running up to the rail past the middle of the side thwart meant that I needed to add a few little tabs to get the line to run close to the rails and all the way to the stern:


  33. #68
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Bainbridge Island WA
    Posts
    3,862

    Default Re: Campion Apple 16 Build

    You’re doing a lovely job. I suggest circling back to ballast before too long. Search for James McMullen’s Rowan, he did a nice job bolting lead pigs into her bilge. You don’t want lose ballast moving around in a small boat like this when things get lively.
    Steve

    If you would have a good boat, be a good guy when you build her - honest, careful, patient, strong.
    H.A. Calahan

  34. #69
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Bainbridge Island WA
    Posts
    3,862

    Default Re: Campion Apple 16 Build

    You’re doing a lovely job. I suggest circling back to ballast before too long. Search for James McMullen’s Rowan, he did a nice job bolting lead pigs into her bilge. You don’t want lose ballast moving around in a small boat like this when things get lively.
    Steve

    If you would have a good boat, be a good guy when you build her - honest, careful, patient, strong.
    H.A. Calahan

  35. #70
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Posts
    95

    Default Re: Campion Apple 16 Build

    Thanks! Yeah -- I'm going to see what water bags beneath the floorboards along the centercase feels like (they'll be certainly trapped, as the floorboards won't be loose, and the floors on either side will keep them from moving any other direction) -- but may just not be enough weight, at which point figuring out a solution with lead is probably the next option (having recently paid money to have our house lead abated, the idea of _buying_ and then processing lead is a little unappealing, though I know encapsulated it is quite safe -- and indeed that is all the abatement is anyway! Just wish I could source those nice PVC encapsulated dive weights in 25 or 50 pound sizes!).

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