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Thread: All Roads Lead To Putin

  1. #36
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    Default Re: All Roads Lead To Putin

    Quote Originally Posted by ljb5 View Post
    You should read the article you just linked to.

    It says that Hillary called Gabbard “a favorite of the Russians.”

    Just like I said.
    That makes it intentional.

    "She's the favorite of the Russians, they have a bunch of sites and bots and other ways of supporting her so far, and - that's assuming Jill Stein will give it up, which she might not, because she is also a Russian asset — yeah, she's a Russian asset! I mean totally!" Clinton continued.

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/hillary...tic-candidate/
    Last edited by mdh; 10-21-2019 at 05:10 PM.

  2. #37
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    Default Re: All Roads Lead To Putin

    Let's get back to Putin's puppet the Donald, by stepping away from Syria he got a lot of people killed already, more to come, and basically have any leverage the US had in the area away. So it looks more like he acted in Putin's interest than ours, Erdogan also got a bunch of stuff for nothing. The art of the deal, Trump style.

  3. #38
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    Default All Roads Lead To Putin

    As I pointed out yesterday.... Trump's (at best) not just weak. He's a sucker. A chump. A patsy. The dupe. A fish. Dead money.

    At worst, he's a traitor in every sense of the word.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/19/o...key-syria.html

    Trump Is a Weak Man in a Strongman's World
    Without his bodyguard of generals, the president is becoming the overseas arsonist his 2016 critics feared.

    For a long time in arguments about the perils posed by the Trump presidency, my watchword has been: Trump is weaker than you think. Too weak to pass legislation. Too weak to get his hacks appointed to Federal Reserve seats. Too weak to use the bully pulpit, or any instrument, to boost his approval ratings above roughly 42 percent. Too weak to prevent leaks or maintain staff loyalty; too weak to plot dirty tricks without their swiftly being publicized; certainly too weak to hold on to power via extralegal means.

    But if Trump’s weakness makes him less of a threat to the constitutional order (such as it is) than some critics imagine, in foreign policy it’s a different matter. There, a weak and flailing chief executive can do as much damage as a ruthless and aggressive one. A domestic weakness that produces gridlock and inertia, scandal and impeachment, is unfortunate but not necessarily disastrous. A weakness on the global stage that tempts other powers toward military aggression risks much more significant disasters.

    Before he took office this was one of my major fears for Trump — that his erratic, feckless qualities would inspire ambitious foreign leaders to test him in ways that made Jimmy Carter's presidency look like easy sailing. Trump "need only be himself," I wrote, "in order to bring an extended period of risk upon the world."

    As with my other major fears (domestic unrest on a late-1960s scale and a stock market plunge), the worst-case scenario did not initially materialize. Trump's foreign policy was hardly Metternichian, but filtered through a bodyguard of generals his various impulses produced something that almost seemed strategic: near-victory over ISIS, de-escalation in the Koreas, a reasonable focus on containing China. And the world under Trump was in certain respects more tranquil than the world of Barack Obama’s second term.

    I gave the administration some credit for this. I hoped it would last once the generals departed.

    It isn't lasting. Trump's betrayal of the Syrian Kurds over the past week is a moral travesty, but the Kurds have been betrayed by America before. What distinguishes this fiasco is its utter thoughtlessness, its disconnect from any strategic purpose, the sheer obviousness with which Trump allowed himself to be rolled by Recep Tayyip Erdogan and the inability of his advisers to salvage the situation before it led to war.

    The constituent elements of the debacle - the blunder itself, the bluster and excuse-making afterward, our pretend-strongman president's transparent admiration for the foreign tough guy - were all exactly what Trump's campaign style led one to expect. So were the dead bodies, the refugees, the anger from allies, the glee from rivals. So was the message sent to those allies and rivals, to Riyadh and New Delhi and Jerusalem no less than Moscow and Beijing: that this American president can be easily hoodwinked and flattered and bullied, and the only repercussions will be Mike Pence showing up at your doorstep looking like a disappointed owl.
    . . .
    You would not enjoy Nietzsche, sir. He is fundamentally unsound. — P.G. Wodehouse (Carry On, Jeeves)

  4. #39
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    Default Re: All Roads Lead To Putin

    Quote Originally Posted by skaraborgcraft View Post
    ...and lots of name calling......funny, reminds me of Trumps behaviour. LMFAO.
    Quote Originally Posted by skaraborgcraft View Post
    Hysterically funny coming from Mr Boycott himself
    For those of you watching at home, in case you weren’t paying attention. Those were two successive sentences!

    Honestly, you can’t make this sh!t up.

    ...well you know, unless you’re on Team Red.
    \"A little too tall, coulda used a few pounds...\"

  5. #40
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    Default Re: All Roads Lead To Putin

    Quote Originally Posted by Beowolf View Post
    For those of you watching at home, in case you weren’t paying attention. Those were two successive sentences!

    Honestly, you can’t make this sh!t up.

    ...well you know, unless you’re on Team Red.
    I warned ya back in post # 5, this entity will bend, twist, contort, whatever to further the Rus Bot agenda, that has also become the Red agenda...LMFAO indeed.
    PaulF

  6. #41
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    Default Re: All Roads Lead To Putin

    Quote Originally Posted by paulf View Post
    I warned ya back in post # 5, this entity will bend, twist, contort, whatever to further the Rus Bot agenda, that has also become the Red agenda...LMFAO indeed.
    Please, the continuous laughter you cause hurts my ribs, im actually starting to think you believe what you say, but maybe you read too many LeCarre novels?

  7. #42
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    Default Re: All Roads Lead To Putin

    Quote Originally Posted by SKIP KILPATRICK View Post
    Okay, okay! So, you aren't a paid agent of the Kremlin. Fine, I was wrong!

    All I'm saying is, as hard as you work for Putin's agenda, you should be paid! You too mdh, go get you some rubles!
    Thats a start. Its a pity you refute one part of your statement, but then go on to make another false assertion. Why does everyone have the need to "pigeon hole" anyone with a different point of view?

  8. #43
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    Default Re: All Roads Lead To Putin

    Quote Originally Posted by skaraborgcraft View Post
    Thats a start. Its a pity you refute one part of your statement, but then go on to make another false assertion. Why does everyone have the need to "pigeon hole" anyone with a different point of view?
    You are so thin-skinned it actually makes it difficult to figure out what you're upset about half the time.

    Welcome to the internet, where people have opinions... and where people are permitted to say things like 'boycott the trolls.'

    If this bothers you so much, you might not be cut out for it.

    Personally, I don't believe you're a Russian bot controlled by Putin. But, frankly, you act enough like a Russian bot controlled by Putin that it makes for an apt comparison. If that bothers you, either learn to accept it, or else change your behavior.

  9. #44
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    Default Re: All Roads Lead To Putin

    ^^ LOL.... Thin skinned? Ha, the sad thing about the internet is you cant see me laughing at the people making fools of themselves. That being said, why should anyone, including you, have to accept false assertions being said about them? Would you be ok if someone suggested you are a pedophile, eveyone can have an opinion right? Im quite sure you would expect, and quite rightly, that the person making outragous claims, should at least and does have the obligation to back up their claims if they want to be taken seriously, no? Seems that obligation of proof falls onto the accused down here.

    And you think i should change MY behaviour? LMFAO.

  10. #45
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    Default Re: All Roads Lead To Putin

    Oh....and how many Russian bots controlled by Putin have you actually conversed with online to come to your conclusion?

  11. #46
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    Default Re: All Roads Lead To Putin

    Quote Originally Posted by skaraborgcraft View Post
    Would you be ok if someone suggested you are a pedophile, eveyone can have an opinion right? Im quite sure you would expect, and quite rightly, that the person making outragous claims, should at least and does have the obligation to back up their claims if they want to be taken seriously, no?
    Not really. No one could credibly make such a claim against me. If anyone did, they'd bee seen as ridiculous. It's not a problem for me if someone else makes themselves look ridiculous.

    Let's not delve into really monstrous hyperbole like that.

    I'll just say this: The accusations made against you, that you are a Russian bot, did not arrive out of the blue. They are based on your own posts here.

    Now, as I have said, I don't really believe that you're a Russian bot.... but it is clear, by your own actions that you act enough like a Russian bot that the comparison is at least a bit apt.

    If this bothers you, remember, the root of this is your own posts.

    If you check out that article on 'Whataboutism' which I just posted, you'll see this:

    [whataboutism] in the United States is particularly associated with Soviet and Russian propaganda.
    Now, again, I'm not saying you are a Russian bot.... but you can't expect people not to notice that one of your favorite argumentative tactics which you post on this forum is known to be 'associated with Russian propaganda.'

    If you walk around speaking French, don't act offended when people think you might be French. If you walk around with a bag full of gulf clubs, don't act surprised if people think you play golf.

    It is in how you present yourself. That doesn't depend on anyone other than you.
    Last edited by ljb5; 10-22-2019 at 10:55 AM.

  12. #47
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    Default Re: All Roads Lead To Putin

    ^ I do not disagree with anything you say, but to suggest i should have to possibly change "an opinion" in order to avoid childish name calling does not produce anything other than a whole heap of people all agreeing on the same thing , is this how people are suppose to exchange ideas , that some will just call you names and make false assertions until you agree with them?.

    Whatever, it was never a big deal anyway, just somewhat amusing, until some decided my right to free speech was not worth as much as theirs, but that says more about them and how two faced and dishonest they really are.

    But thanks for pointing out my behaviour, and no its not going to change......i need the vodka coupons.....

  13. #48
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    Default Re: All Roads Lead To Putin

    It is in how you present yourself.
    Expecting introspection and him taking responsibility for his actions is asking a bit much, don't you think?

    LAMO

  14. #49
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    Default Re: All Roads Lead To Putin

    ^Ask you friend Keith about taking responsibilty for his actions. Just another "do as i say, not what i do".....ha ha ha.....sad.

  15. #50
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    Default Re: All Roads Lead To Putin

    Quote Originally Posted by SKIP KILPATRICK View Post
    Okay, okay! So, you aren't a paid agent of the Kremlin.
    Ask him if he has any proof he isn't? He's very good at proving fallacies, this should be a piece of cake for him. Let's see a pay stub from a legit job !
    One of the most enduring qualities of an old wooden boat is the smell it imparts to your clothing.

  16. #51
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    Default Re: All Roads Lead To Putin

    Wonder why the rooskies keep ol' skary on the payroll here; he/she/it's been outed, and is terribly ineffective. Seems a waste of... well, everything.

    ljb5 seems tanned and rested. This next year should be entertaining.
    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

  17. #52
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    Default Re: All Roads Lead To Putin

    Quote Originally Posted by George Jung View Post
    Wonder why the rooskies keep ol' skary on the payroll here; he/she/it's been outed, and is terribly ineffective. Seems a waste of... well, everything.

    ljb5 seems tanned and rested. This next year should be entertaining.

    Because your still talking about me i guess.......maybe someone thinks that is worth paying for? Thanks for the beer!

  18. #53
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    Default Re: All Roads Lead To Putin

    Quote Originally Posted by Lew Barrett View Post
    Ask him if he has any proof he isn't? He's very good at proving fallacies, this should be a piece of cake for him. Let's see a pay stub from a legit job !
    The burden of proof is always on the party making the claim, and extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. If an extraordinary claim is made with no evidence at all, the party making that claim should be promptly shamed and dismissed.
    I wont hold my breath........

  19. #54
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    Default Re: All Roads Lead To Putin

    Quote Originally Posted by skaraborgcraft View Post
    I expect it to show that both the DNC and some alphabet groups have been up to their necks in Ukraine. Trumps no innocent, but i dont see anyone talking about Clintons Uranium 1 deal, and hubby being paid $500,000 for one speech. BOTH SIDES are as bad as the other, and i think delusional to think otherwise. Divide and rule in action, this place is proof...
    Seems to me the Clinton Uranium thing has been proven a hoax, just like Ben Ghazi, etc.
    How do we form a mutiny? Our new captain is navigating poorly.

  20. #55
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    Default Re: All Roads Lead To Putin

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoez View Post
    Wish people would stop using the word 'meddle'. They interfered, and will do so again.
    How do we form a mutiny? Our new captain is navigating poorly.

  21. #56
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    Default Re: All Roads Lead To Putin

    Quote Originally Posted by skaraborgcraft View Post
    Do try to think, or at least read the news....

    Pete Buttigieg has criticised Hillary Clinton over controversial remarks about Tulsi Gabbard, one of his competitors for the Democratic presidential nomination, saying the former nominee should have provided evidence for her claim Gabbard is “a Russian asset”.

    If you want to take Hillarys word that she has a farmload of russbots supporting her.... with no evidence to back it up, then you are just the person she wants voting for her, ask no questions and blind loyalty......
    Hillary said Powell advised her on email use. Powell denied it. Then an email of him doing just that surfaced.

    I tend to doubt Hillary would have made a statement she won't be able to back up if/when has to.
    How do we form a mutiny? Our new captain is navigating poorly.

  22. #57
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    Default Re: All Roads Lead To Putin

    Quote Originally Posted by mdh View Post
    Hiliary’s connection to Steele and the fake, Russian dossier is the only connection to Russia that’s been established.
    Republicans began that dossier. Not Clinton.
    How do we form a mutiny? Our new captain is navigating poorly.

  23. #58
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    Default Re: All Roads Lead To Putin

    Anyone think Geng is a Russian agent? :-)

  24. #59
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    Default Re: All Roads Lead To Putin

    I find it amazing that so many forget: Clinton had asked congress for more money for more security at that consulate. Republicans denied the request. Then they blame her for the tragedy.
    How do we form a mutiny? Our new captain is navigating poorly.

  25. #60
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    Default Re: All Roads Lead To Putin

    He’s the reddest of the reds right up there with skara and mdh.
    "No matter which faction of the party with which you identify, whether left, center left, centrist, blind partisan, social justice warrior, Dem leaning Indie, or Never-Trumper, job one is defeating these Republicans badly enough that they will BACK THE F OFF.

    If that doesn't happen, there will be no climate change fix, no inequality fix, no better health care, jobs, .... no future. It is vital to stop them now and do it decisively." -- sonofswen



  26. #61
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    Default Re: All Roads Lead To Putin

    Quote Originally Posted by skaraborgcraft View Post
    The burden of proof is always on the party making the claim, and extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. If an extraordinary claim is made with no evidence at all, the party making that claim should be promptly shamed and dismissed.
    I wont hold my breath........
    In our country there is an old expression, “if it walks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck..... it’s probably a duck!”.
    Skip

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  27. #62
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    Default Re: All Roads Lead To Putin

    Quote Originally Posted by John Smith
    I find it amazing that so many forget: Clinton had asked congress for more money for more security at that consulate. Republicans denied the request. Then they blame her for the tragedy.
    Many do not want to be confused by inconvenient facts that challenge their ideology and agenda.
    "No matter which faction of the party with which you identify, whether left, center left, centrist, blind partisan, social justice warrior, Dem leaning Indie, or Never-Trumper, job one is defeating these Republicans badly enough that they will BACK THE F OFF.

    If that doesn't happen, there will be no climate change fix, no inequality fix, no better health care, jobs, .... no future. It is vital to stop them now and do it decisively." -- sonofswen



  28. #63
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    Default Re: All Roads Lead To Putin

    Quote Originally Posted by birlinn View Post
    Anyone think Geng is a Russian agent? :-)
    No a quisling!
    Skip

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    ...........fighting against the deliberate polarization of politics...

  29. #64
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    Default Re: All Roads Lead To Putin

    Lots of quacking going on here, and there seem to be some feathers lying around . . ..

    One more brick on the load. (Source)

    We Used to Oppose the Rise of Authoritarianism in Europe
    by Martin Longman, October 22, 2019

    In our June/July/August 2015 issue, we published an article by Eleni Kounalakis, our United States ambassador to Hungary during much of the Obama administration. The piece explored Secretary of State Hillary Clinton’s response to the 2010 election of Viktor Orbán. It was a story about how Clinton and her diplomats rallied to keep authoritarianism at bay in eastern Europe. Their successes in Hungary were partial and quite fragile. As the Washington Post explains, they couldn’t survive the election of Donald Trump. The United States now sides with the authoritarians.

    " Trump’s conversations with Putin, Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban and others reinforced his perception of Ukraine as a hopelessly corrupt country — one that Trump now also appears to believe sought to undermine him in the 2016 U.S. election, the officials said . . . their disparaging depictions of Ukraine reinforced Trump’s perceptions of the country and fed a dysfunctional dynamic in which White House officials struggled to persuade Trump to support the fledgling government in Kyiv instead of exploiting it for political purposes, officials said."

    The government, very much including Trump’s own national security staff, has been powerless to stop this reversal.

    " The efforts to poison Trump’s views toward [Ukrainian President] Zelensky were anticipated by national security officials at the White House, officials said. But the voices of Putin and Orban took on added significance this year because of the departure or declining influence of those who had sought to blunt the influence of Putin and other authoritarian leaders over Trump . . . “Over time you just see a wearing down of the defenses,” a former White House official said, describing the struggle to contest the influence of Giuliani, Putin and Orban . . . American policy has for years been “built around containing malign Russian influence” in Eastern Europe, a U.S. official said. Trump’s apparent susceptibility to the arguments he hears from Putin and Orban is “an example of the president himself under malign influence — being steered by it.”

    Most significantly, there was much resistance to granting a visit to Orbán, but that resistance eventually crumbled:

    "The May conversation with Putin coincided with a White House visit by Orban that many in the administration had opposed because of the Hungarian leader’s moves to undercut democratic institutions in that country and his combative relations with U.S. allies in Europe . . . White House and State Department officials had sought to block an Orban visit since the start of Trump’s presidency, concerned that it would legitimize a leader often ostracized in Europe. They also worried about Orban’s influence on the U.S. president. “Basically, everyone agreed — no Orban meeting,” said a former White House official involved in internal discussions. “We were against it because [we] knew there was a good chance that Trump and Orban would bond and get along.”

    Apparently, acting chief of staff Mick Mulvaney overruled the consensus of national security figures and green lighted the Orbán visit.

    "The effort to keep distance between Trump and Orban began to fray earlier this year with the departures of senior officials and the emergence of new voices around the president. Among the most important was Mulvaney, who became acting chief of staff in January and was seen as sympathetic to Orban’s hard-right views and skepticism of European institutions. In Congress, Mulvaney’s former Freedom Caucus colleagues last year backed Orban’s efforts to kill a small U.S. grant designed to nurture independent media outlets in Hungary. Mulvaney’s involvement in approving the Orban visit was one of several instances in which he overruled national security officials, officials said."

    It’s odd that the “Freedom” Caucus in Congress is opposed to a free press in Hungary, but I’m not sure they were the driving force here. Mulvaney is ultimately in charge of translating the president’s wishes into policy. If Trump wants dirt on Joe Biden, he’s going to facilitate that. If he wants a meeting with Orbán, then it doesn’t matter how many people at the State Department or the National Security Council object.

    The key point is that Trump takes direction from Vladimir Putin and his quislings. Putin bad-mouths Ukraine and so Trump withholds military aid and translates a legal obligation to provide it into something that can benefit his political prospects.

    As Nancy Pelosi said to his face in a recent White House meeting, with Trump, all roads lead to Putin. Every controversial decision he makes seems to benefit Russia. The decision to host Orbán is just one more piece of evidence in support of this observation.
    Last edited by Keith Wilson; 10-22-2019 at 12:43 PM.
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  30. #65
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    Default Re: All Roads Lead To Putin

    Quote Originally Posted by skaraborgcraft View Post
    The burden of proof is always on the party making the claim, and extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. If an extraordinary claim is made with no evidence at all, the party making that claim should be promptly shamed and dismissed.
    I wont hold my breath........
    No, please do.
    PaulF

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    Default Re: All Roads Lead To Putin

    I'd pay good money to see that....

    might be the best thing ol' skary has done! (Go for the record... only 10 minutes more!)
    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

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    Default Re: All Roads Lead To Putin

    Quote Originally Posted by birlinn View Post
    Anyone think Geng is a Russian agent? :-)
    If he is, he'd be the last to know it.

    During the last election, lots of people found themselves parroting Russian talking points and re-posting Russian-generated propaganda. They didn't know where the stuff came from. They just saw it, and liked it, believed it and reposted it because they thought it helped them.

    Only later did they realize they were being used.

    This is one of Trump's big problems. He knows that Russia helped him. To his way of thinking, this is good for him and bad for the Democrats. I honestly don't think he ever stopped to wonder why Russia would help him or what they would get out of it.

    The bill comes due after you've eaten the meal.

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    Default Re: All Roads Lead To Putin

    Quote Originally Posted by skaraborgcraft View Post
    The burden of proof is always on the party making the claim, and extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. If an extraordinary claim is made with no evidence at all, the party making that claim should be promptly shamed and dismissed.
    I wont hold my breath........
    This is the internet, not the proceedings of the Royal Philosophical Society.

    You might be too thin-skinned to hang out here.

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    Default Re: All Roads Lead To Putin

    Quote Originally Posted by ljb5 View Post
    This is the internet, not the proceedings of the Royal Philosophical Society.

    You might be too thin-skinned to hang out here.
    Like i said, you cant see the grin on my face. Water off a ducks back......

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    Default Re: All Roads Lead To Putin

    Quote Originally Posted by SKIP KILPATRICK View Post
    In our country there is an old expression, “if it walks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck..... it’s probably a duck!”.
    Hence the lack of critical thinking around here......take the easy route.....

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