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Thread: Access to showers denied for people stationed in the Boatyard

  1. #1
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    Default Access to showers denied for people stationed in the Boatyard

    Hi all,

    we've got a bit of a weird situation here right now and before doing something I might regret later I thought I better ask you about your opinions first.

    For since this port was completed in 1983, the Boatyard and the Marina were in the same hands and people on the boatyard (those on yachts, living aboard while here) were using the same showerblock.

    End of July the Marina changed hands and became part of a private Yachtclub on the northern side of the port (the Marina is on the southern side, as is the showerblock we were using).

    The day the takeover took place the locks on the shower-(and toilet-)block were changed and we people of the boatyard were denied access. Of course this happened a few minutes after office-hours, so no possibility to sort out anything over the weekend.

    Monday came, my first instinct after the takeover was to write a complaint but got talked out of it by the director of the boatyard in trying to convince me by showing me the regulations which mention in Article 20 the use of infrastructure, showers in this case. Paragraph 1 says that for each use of the showers in the port of Peniche (we are not in Peniche but in Nazare, which is owned by the same company) a fee of 2.04 Euro has to be paid. In Paragraph 1.1. is noted that this fee is not payable for the people of the Marina as it's included in the price.

    As mentioned, this concerns explicitly Peniche and there is no mentioning of Nazare.

    After several complaints of the boatyard-people to the old owner, the private Yacht-Club was nice enough to allow us access to showers in a building on the other side for 1.50 Euro each, making it clear that this is only for the people who have been on the boatyard before the takeover happened and not for those going on the boatyard in the future.

    As more and more information trickles in, I got told yesterday that this situation is a compromise that will end at the end of this year for all of us. I also got told that the director of the private Yachtclub had asked the people owning the Marina before, if the boatyard-people had a right to use the showers, and got told we have no such right.

    Someone clearly has done a poor job for his customers, but blame has never solved any problems. Although we have the possibility for the next months to use showers it's a very poor situation which is even worse for foreign people who don't have their house around the corner.

    So, the question remains: do we have a right to use the showers? Or was it just because of friendliness we were allowed to use them all these years?
    Last edited by Dody; 08-17-2019 at 09:01 AM.
    fair winds, Dody
    "They did not know it was impossible so they did it" - Mark Twain

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Access to showers denied for people stationed in the Boatyard

    "I also got told that the director of the private Yachtclub had asked the people owning the Marina before, if the boatyard-people had a right to use the showers, and got told we have no such right."

    Sound like that's your answer and the allowance to use the showers was informal, subject to change.

  3. #3
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    Yard have water elec plumbing? Short-term, get some black plastic tubing, plastic curtains make some solar showers!
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Access to showers denied for people stationed in the Boatyard

    I've never been in a boatyard that didn't have these facilities and I lived on a boat full time for about ten years.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Access to showers denied for people stationed in the Boatyard

    Heat a pot of water and sponge bath?

    I'm guessing the simplest thing is to charge everyone for a shower. The charge should cover the cost of the water, upkeep and cleaning. I went to a campground in Maine that charged for the showers. There was a box that one had to feed quarters in to get water.
    Will

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Access to showers denied for people stationed in the Boatyard

    It's not a matter of rights but of a change in ownership and contract. So long as you can obtain water, shower on board.

    I've lived at a marina that had shore showers and also cruised to places (Vineyard Haven for example) that have excellent public showers. Nice on a warm day. But in winter, I much preferred to shower aboard rather than totter through the snow down the dock, and then back with wet hair trying to freeze.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Access to showers denied for people stationed in the Boatyard

    Boatyards are the funkiest places I hang out.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Access to showers denied for people stationed in the Boatyard

    If because of these changes the boatyard becomes unpopular, even unfinancial, will the Marina gain an extension, cheap? And is this all in the original plan at the time of sale, but unstated?

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Access to showers denied for people stationed in the Boatyard

    There is some great comments and ideas here, thank you heaps already for taking the time!

    Quote Originally Posted by rbgarr View Post
    "I also got told that the director of the private Yachtclub had asked the people owning the Marina before, if the boatyard-people had a right to use the showers, and got told we have no such right."

    Sound like that's your answer and the allowance to use the showers was informal, subject to change.
    Well, yes, if that's so, fair enough. I have more the idea it's made up. Especially after the director of the port showed me as his only proof the regulations which clearly mention Peniche and no word about Nazaré. And not a word in there that the Marina-users in Nazaré have the right to use the showers in Nazaré, so, if they have the right without someone saying so, how can they claim we boatyard-people don't have the right? And actually, what would a Marina or a Boatyard without showers be?

    Quote Originally Posted by DeniseO30 View Post
    Yard have water elec plumbing? Short-term, get some black plastic tubing, plastic curtains make some solar showers!
    Thank you Denise, we might have to do something like this as long as the temperatures are still bearable.

    Quote Originally Posted by S.V. Airlie View Post
    I've never been in a boatyard that didn't have these facilities and I lived on a boat full time for about ten years.
    Neither have I, owning my boat for 23 years and liveaboard since 17 years. Nor have I noticed any boatyard without a shower in my extended travels over land to all kind of countries (seems I've got a habit with boatyards ... ). That's what made me suspicious in the first place. And honestly, who wouldn't have the wish to use a shower after a dusty workday on the boat in the boatyard? The sudden lack of a toilet outside office hours is a case of human rights violation, but a shower is something different, unfortunately - or so I guess.

    Quote Originally Posted by willmarsh3 View Post
    Heat a pot of water and sponge bath?

    I'm guessing the simplest thing is to charge everyone for a shower. The charge should cover the cost of the water, upkeep and cleaning. I went to a campground in Maine that charged for the showers. There was a box that one had to feed quarters in to get water.
    I agree with you. Under the condition that it is valid for all boatyard-people, not only the ones who were in the yard at the moment of the takeover. The driver of our travellift was on holiday for 2 weeks and will be back on Monday (who has ever heard of a travellift-driver going on holiday for 2 weeks and not even a replacement for emergencies??? Never mind... it was a first). Meanwhile 4 Yachts I know of are queing up to be lifted out on Monday for extensive repairs. Foreigners on passage all of them. As it is they won't have the right to use any shower, the solution for us is not extended to them, even if they were happy to pay. Yes, of course, I could (and probably should) just turn around and walk away, not caring about anything because at the moment my situation is "sorted". But that's not how it works and that's not how we should treat our fellow cruising-sailors. If we want this, we should go back to where we came from and not even bother to be part of this little community. Apart from this, 1st of January we are all in the same situation ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian McColgin View Post
    It's not a matter of rights but of a change in ownership and contract. So long as you can obtain water, shower on board.

    I've lived at a marina that had shore showers and also cruised to places (Vineyard Haven for example) that have excellent public showers. Nice on a warm day. But in winter, I much preferred to shower aboard rather than totter through the snow down the dock, and then back with wet hair trying to freeze.
    Showers on board are a nice thing to have, I totally agree with you Ian. Unfortunately some of us (me included) live in an empty hull to be able to do the extended works we are busy with.

    Quote Originally Posted by wizbang 13 View Post
    Boatyards are the funkiest places I hang out.
    Nicely said!

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    If because of these changes the boatyard becomes unpopular, even unfinancial, will the Marina gain an extension, cheap? And is this all in the original plan at the time of sale, but unstated?
    Good question. In theory no. None of this can be bought, it's all about lease, or better: rent, from the company who owns the port, which is the same one who was running the Marina before and is still running the boatyard. Also, we share the boatyard with the fishermen. Actually, now that you mention this, a conversation I had with the secretary of the Yachtclub and the head of the Fishermen's Association some time ago comes back to me (Secretary not in the sense of the girl who's sitting behind the desk typing letters, but the secretary of the Club which is second of the director). At the time the Club had plans to build a new boatyard for storage on the land between the Marina and the Shower-and Toilet-block, and they had plans to take over the travellift. The head of the Fishermen's Association, wanted to talk him into taking over the working-boatyard as well but he wouldn't want to hear of it. Guess I've got to put more thinking into this scenario ...
    fair winds, Dody
    "They did not know it was impossible so they did it" - Mark Twain

  10. #10
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    If I understand right these are 2 properties which used to be owned or leased or operated by a single organisation. Now the marina with showers has gone into other hands. You have no right to use the marina facilities. Sorry. You probably need to lobby the boatyard operator to put in shower facilities. Preferably before the end of the year.

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  11. #11
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    Probably not worth the effort to try and trap them on class discrimination; Yacht club people versus working-class boatyard people ( pretty & pretentious vs smart & smelly) 😱 but you might be able to trick them into saying something that could be used with the local authorities.
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

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    Default Re: Access to showers denied for people stationed in the Boatyard

    Quote Originally Posted by DeniseO30 View Post
    Probably not worth the effort to try and trap them on class discrimination; Yacht club people versus working-class boatyard people ( pretty & pretentious vs smart & smelly) �� but you might be able to trick them into saying something that could be used with the local authorities.
    Obviously you have not lived in Portugal Doesn't work like that...

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    Default Re: Access to showers denied for people stationed in the Boatyard

    Sounds like you all may need to shower aboard your own vessels. If that is problematic or you want stand-up showers, band together and see if it's feasible to put together a flat barge with shower facilities, should not take a lot of length, and strategize where to put it, either an open berth or at the next open berth from someone leaving, and split the cost of the moorage and barge amongst yourselves.
    When you can take the pebble from my hand, it will be time for you to leave.

  14. #14
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    Guys, the yard is hard stand. Dry land. Dody is rebuilding her boat in a major way while living aboard. I wouldn't even call it a bare hull right now. But it will be soon. Ain't no place to shower on board, even if there was a place for grey water to run to.

    Sent from my CPH1851 using Tapatalk

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    Default Re: Access to showers denied for people stationed in the Boatyard

    Andrew, Humor, humorous, funny I was trying to be
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

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    Default Re: Access to showers denied for people stationed in the Boatyard

    Hi Denise
    Bringing things like class & descrimination tend to cloud the waters.. I lived there for 30 yrs and there were huge gaps between the the yacht owners and the rest.
    Bit like Spain, where yacht clubs were upmarket social clubs, where visiting sailers, if not dressed correctly, would not be welcome in the bar.
    Humour would help, but might be missed in the cercs..
    A2
    Having said that. When a brit, who was living on a small classic 6 mtr in Vilamoura, had a spinal prob and no med insurance, a German friend got the yacht club organised and he was treated for free. One of the members was an orthopedic guy, who did the surgery and the rest bunged in the funds for the other costs. The bloke concerned, who played a very good banjo, should have taken better care and been a bit more responsible. But nice to see that the community antied up when he was in pain.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Access to showers denied for people stationed in the Boatyard

    Quote Originally Posted by DeniseO30 View Post
    Probably not worth the effort to try and trap them on class discrimination; Yacht club people versus working-class boatyard people ( pretty & pretentious vs smart & smelly)  but you might be able to trick them into saying something that could be used with the local authorities.
    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew2 View Post
    Obviously you have not lived in Portugal Doesn't work like that...
    Quote Originally Posted by DeniseO30 View Post
    Andrew, Humor, humorous, funny I was trying to be
    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew2 View Post
    Hi Denise
    Bringing things like class & descrimination tend to cloud the waters.. I lived there for 30 yrs and there were huge gaps between the the yacht owners and the rest.
    Bit like Spain, where yacht clubs were upmarket social clubs, where visiting sailers, if not dressed correctly, would not be welcome in the bar.
    Humour would help, but might be missed in the cercs..
    A2
    Having said that. When a brit, who was living on a small classic 6 mtr in Vilamoura, had a spinal prob and no med insurance, a German friend got the yacht club organised and he was treated for free. One of the members was an orthopedic guy, who did the surgery and the rest bunged in the funds for the other costs. The bloke concerned, who played a very good banjo, should have taken better care and been a bit more responsible. But nice to see that the community antied up when he was in pain.
    Nice story Andrew, there are some awesome people around!

    Denise, Andrew is right with what he's saying. You can't win anything by complaining about class-differences in a country where maybe 90 % of the population is earning minimum wages, and where it hardly ever happens that someone would stand up and fight for his rights, even a bar-fight would be something extraordinary (not talking about the behavior of tourists).

    On the other hand, if this situation would turn up in a local newspaper, you could be pretty sure the next day people would be queuing up to invite us for a shower in their house and a meal and whatnot, feeling ashamed about the situation and wanting to help and make us feel better in their country. Which is awesome and wonderful and super-nice, but it doesn't change matters for the future and it won't change anything in the attitude of the people of the company owning and (still) running the boatyard.
    fair winds, Dody
    "They did not know it was impossible so they did it" - Mark Twain

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Access to showers denied for people stationed in the Boatyard

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Y View Post
    If I understand right these are 2 properties which used to be owned or leased or operated by a single organisation. Now the marina with showers has gone into other hands. You have no right to use the marina facilities. Sorry. You probably need to lobby the boatyard operator to put in shower facilities. Preferably before the end of the year.

    Sent from my CPH1851 using Tapatalk
    Phil, correct would be: Marina, Boatyard and Showerblock was owned and operated by the same company (= the one owning the whole port). The owner has not changed for any of it, its still the same company. Only the operating-part of the Marina was given away. And they claimed, after asking and getting the strange reply that we Boatyard-people have no right (will have a chat with the director of the port tomorrow to find out where that came from), the shower-block for them exclusively as well.

    I really like your approach with lobbying the boatyard owner and operator (= the company running the port) to put in shower facilities. If only I had an idea how to get them there when I'm not even able to establish if we had (= have now) a right for showers or not. The immediate reply will be "oh, but we've got no money and you know that the headoffice in Lisbon won't authorize anything" and the director will be close to tears again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Y View Post
    Guys, the yard is hard stand. Dry land. Dody is rebuilding her boat in a major way while living aboard. I wouldn't even call it a bare hull right now. But it will be soon. Ain't no place to shower on board, even if there was a place for grey water to run to.

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    Thank you Phil!!!
    fair winds, Dody
    "They did not know it was impossible so they did it" - Mark Twain

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Access to showers denied for people stationed in the Boatyard

    Somehow and probably because smileys and emoticons don't show up when I post it was taken serious, when it was to
    meant to be funny. (in other words don't even try or don't even think about trying for class discriminatio) yee gads!
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Access to showers denied for people stationed in the Boatyard

    can you go do some protest showers on the yacht club docks?

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Access to showers denied for people stationed in the Boatyard

    Go a few days without a shower then stop in and ask if they've reconsidered the policy.

    On field exercises in the Army we'd jury-rig a shower by spraying a garden hose on the roof of anything handy - a tent in a pinch, a building if one was handy - and showering in the warm runoff. A bunch of naked guys joking about dropping the soap is probably not something you'd be into though.

  22. #22
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    Default Re: Access to showers denied for people stationed in the Boatyard

    Quote Originally Posted by AlanMc View Post
    can you go do some protest showers on the yacht club docks?
    Awesome, love that ! Unfortunately electronic-key-access only ...
    fair winds, Dody
    "They did not know it was impossible so they did it" - Mark Twain

  23. #23
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    This worked when it was warm and sunny

    PS: what Phil is referring to is the whole stern and the deck aft of the cockpit (centre-cockpit ketch) which is open. Inside there is only my bunk, everything else is gone including my engine, electrics, skinfittings removed etc.. What you see from the hull here in these pictures still has to come off so I can bang in new nails from the planks into the frames etc. etc. The Caravan was sent down by my dad and serves as office and galley and has a little fridge, too tiny for a shower.



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    Last edited by Dody; 08-19-2019 at 07:18 PM.
    fair winds, Dody
    "They did not know it was impossible so they did it" - Mark Twain

  24. #24
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    Default Re: Access to showers denied for people stationed in the Boatyard

    Quote Originally Posted by John of Phoenix View Post
    Go a few days without a shower then stop in and ask if they've reconsidered the policy.

    On field exercises in the Army we'd jury-rig a shower by spraying a garden hose on the roof of anything handy - a tent in a pinch, a building if one was handy - and showering in the warm runoff. A bunch of naked guys joking about dropping the soap is probably not something you'd be into though.
    Phhhmmmmmhhhhhh, I don't care as long as it's not me who lost the soap !

    Gosh, nice if that would work ... living outdoors in freedom with plenty of "Nortada" - the Portuguese North-wind that kind of never stops - it's next to impossible to get smelly!
    fair winds, Dody
    "They did not know it was impossible so they did it" - Mark Twain

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Access to showers denied for people stationed in the Boatyard

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Y View Post
    Guys, the yard is hard stand. Dry land. Dody is rebuilding her boat in a major way while living aboard. I wouldn't even call it a bare hull right now. But it will be soon. Ain't no place to shower on board, even if there was a place for grey water to run to.

    Sent from my CPH1851 using Tapatalk
    OH. I did not grok. OK, here is what ya do. Seriously, I did this when traveling in a small wagon converted to micro-camper:

    Get a brand-new 3 gallon plastic fuel jug (or larger if you want; depends if you want to leave water in it or fill it each time with warm water). (A used jug will make the water smell like gasoline.)

    Leave the pouring nozzle facing inward into the outside.

    Get some rubber tubing that is a tight fit through the nozzle. Cut the end of the tube in a double bevel, 45 degrees each side, so that even when against the bottom of the jug, water will still flow through. Jam that end through the nozzle from the outside until it reaches the inside bottom of the jug. Leave enough tubing length on the outside to loop toward the jug handle on top, cut the tubing there.

    Find a "high-flow" 12 volt fuel pump or such, preferably with corrosion resistant innards. Attach pump to top handle with zip ties. Attach the tubing to the pump inlet with a hose clamp.

    Buy a sink sprayer, the kind with a thumb trigger switch, probably the longest they sell, at least long enough to reach from the ground to over your head. Cut off the end fitting and attach the hose to the pump outlet with a hose clamp.

    Obtain either a cigarette lighter 12V male plug (if powering from auto interior) or two alligator clips (if directly to a 12V battery), one red, one back.

    Use audio speaker wire or similar, and wire up the pump with soldered or crimped connections, negative wire running to the power plug negative or black clip, positive wire spiraling around the sprayer tubing to a switch under the sprayer thumb trigger (I had no switch so made one from an aluminum sardine can lid), then to the power plug positive or red clip.

    Fill it up with warm or cold water, hook up the power, and you're good to go, just press the trigger. Volume flow will depend on pump chosen. This will not be constant flow but instead navy showers; wet down, soap up, rinse.

    For safety, I would not do this with power that is high voltage or AC.

    Or you can just poke holes in a 2 liter bottle, fill, use it as a sprayer.

    Where I used to reside, had no showers, I had an old large (commercial size) electric coffee pot with no brewing innards, I would use it to heat up shower water, then just use a jug to dispense water about 1/3 full, then thinning with cold water to desired temperature, and just pour over me. Because I was in a building, I stood inside a large plastic storage container on wheels, when done, I just wheeled it to the door and dumped it out.

    But since you all don't need to shower at once, I think it would be efficient to pool resources to build one shower. There is a homeless camp near here, they put together a trailer with washer and dryer in the front, and two showers in back, with a water heater for both, designed to hook up to power and water. It made a huge difference in the quality of life of residents. Time signup sheet for both washer and shower.
    When you can take the pebble from my hand, it will be time for you to leave.

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