Page 1 of 4 12 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 35 of 113

Thread: Thinking about my immigrant ancestors.....

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Sharon, MA
    Posts
    22,870

    Default Thinking about my immigrant ancestors.....

    My great grandparents, and their 9 children, emigrated to America around the turn of the century, like millions of eastern European Jews. They settled in New York, Montreal, Toronto, and Portland ME.

    Every one of them was dirt poor, coming to America with nothing Not a one of them spoke English. Like immigrants both then and now, they were initially taken in by 'landztmen', or neigbors or friends from the old country that preceeded them.

    Every single one of them prospered, supported themselves, created small businesses, and sent their kids to school. In Montreal, 3 of them opened news stands on the corners in the center of the city. The one in Portland peddled housewares door to door. My grandfather (one of the New Yorkers) painted the petroleum storage tanks at Cities Service (later known as Citgo), in Linden, NJ.

    The children of the nine prospered as well... all finished high school, and some actually went to college. They all became businessmen, lawyers, doctors, accountants... many served our country in WWII, including my own father.

    The grandchildren of the nine? MANY doctors, Lawyers, engineers, accountants, and businessmen of all stripes. I know all their names, know many of these relatives, and as far as I can tell, not a one of them, or their parents, EVER was dependent on handouts from the government.......

    ... so it grieves me to think about it; who knows how many generations of productive contributors to society might we lose, with an immigration policy that basically weeds out poor people (perhaps more because of their brown skin, than their poverty, per se) while we admit those who have already 'made it' elsewhere, and are coming in with money?

    What's the value of a poor immigrant? My great grandparents and their nine children came here with nothing, and MADE something: they contributed to American society in ways too numerous to count.

    Now there are 460 descendants of those great grandparents... who may never have existed, save for the woman who lifted her lamp beside the golden door.
    "Reason and facts are sacrificed to opinion and myth. Demonstrable falsehoods are circulated and recycled as fact. Narrow minded opinion refuses to be subjected to thought and analysis. Too many now subject events to a prefabricated set of interpretations, usually provided by a biased media source. The myth is more comfortable than the often difficult search for truth."







  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    victoria, australia. (1 address now)
    Posts
    57,252

    Default Re: Thinking about my immigrant ancestors.....

    Well said Norma, your ancestors were amongst the best and bravest, they made the country.
    Only the brave and the desperate leave their own lands, family and ancestors and cast themselves on the shores of a strange and unknown land. The US needs these immigrants more than they need the US. They are your future.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    oklahoma
    Posts
    5,504

    Default Re: Thinking about my immigrant ancestors.....

    Did they get welfare, food stamps, housing, enroll in ESL classes at the public school?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Sharon, MA
    Posts
    22,870

    Default Re: Thinking about my immigrant ancestors.....

    Quote Originally Posted by mdh View Post
    Did they get welfare, food stamps, housing, enroll in ESL classes at the public school?
    No... but who knows? If they DID get all those things, who knows how much more successful they might have become... and how much MORE they would have contributed to America?
    "Reason and facts are sacrificed to opinion and myth. Demonstrable falsehoods are circulated and recycled as fact. Narrow minded opinion refuses to be subjected to thought and analysis. Too many now subject events to a prefabricated set of interpretations, usually provided by a biased media source. The myth is more comfortable than the often difficult search for truth."







  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    MD
    Posts
    53,057

    Default Re: Thinking about my immigrant ancestors.....

    My great grandfather came from Germany at 14 and worked with his older brother running mercantile stores associated with the railroads.

    five years ago when my brother and I collected dad from LA. It was apparent the Latino children of the folks who rode the bus in LA when I was a kid were now driving Lexus’. In the pizza biz in the 80’s I met young Chinese and Vietnamese immigrants who started at minimum wage at 18 and were running their own restaurants by 30.

    What makes America great trump desecrates.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    oklahoma
    Posts
    5,504

    Default Re: Thinking about my immigrant ancestors.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Norman Bernstein View Post
    No... but who knows? If they DID get all those things, who knows how much more successful they might have become... and how much MORE they would have contributed to America?
    What happens more often is they avoid gainful employment to keep from losing their benefits.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 1999
    Location
    Hyannis, MA, USA
    Posts
    47,918

    Default Re: Thinking about my immigrant ancestors.....

    I am personally more welcoming of the traditional immigrant - poor, oppressed in the homeland, brave, and clever-cunning-determined enough to get here. When I was with the DPU we often fielded consumer v utility credit problems where the voice of the consumer was a 12 year old. The parents were working but did not speak English. The immigrant generation are energetic and valuable. Their children are the real break outs.

    There is nothing wrong with highly educated immigrants. My physician got his MD from Dow Medical College in Karachi and his childhood language is Urdu. But I don't value immigrants who exploited great wealth from their homeland and are moving here for a bigger market to exploit.

    I don't have a program or answers but one need not be certain of the right way to know we're going the wrong way.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    oklahoma
    Posts
    5,504

    Default Re: Thinking about my immigrant ancestors.....

    First they break up the family, telling the mother that if she divorces the husband they’ll give her what she needs to raise the kids, fatherless. Then they hound the father for child support for the kids who live where he can’t. He counters by doing what he can for cash. It’s a miserable, intentional scheme to keep the poor poor. It’s a waste of money and lives. You can see the results in the dimocrat havens all over this country like Chicago, Baltimore, and St. Louis, and more. And the dimocrat answer to repairing the damage is more wasted money for a failed program. SMOGRAS

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2000
    Location
    Portland, Maine
    Posts
    18,526

    Default Re: Thinking about my immigrant ancestors.....

    Where did your family come from mdh? Or are you Native American?

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Kitty Hawk, NC
    Posts
    8,522

    Default Re: Thinking about my immigrant ancestors.....

    We never hear the stories of immigrants coming here who fail. I think that is called selection bias.

    My wife's grandparents were poor. My were also. A few generations later and a lot of their descendants are rich. I attribute it to hard work. A lot of people think luck and white privilege were more important.

    I am sure that there are many immigrants who do not have success stories. Lack of luck and privilege, maybe.
    Life is complex.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Gulf Islands B.C.
    Posts
    884

    Default Re: Thinking about my immigrant ancestors.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    We never hear the stories of immigrants coming here who fail. I think that is called selection bias.

    My wife's grandparents were poor. My were also. A few generations later and a lot of their descendants are rich. I attribute it to hard work. A lot of people think luck and white privilege were more important.

    I am sure that there are many immigrants who do not have success stories. Lack of luck and privilege, maybe.
    Sadly, hard work only benefits if luck puts you in a position to take advantage of it.
    Luck is being in the right time at the right place with the right skills.
    Smarts is jumping on a chance.
    Hard work is following through.

    All the ducks have to be in a row.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Central Coast, Ca
    Posts
    24,814

    Default Re: Thinking about my immigrant ancestors.....

    My family has a history of helping imigrants or more correctly refugees.

    In the late 60's it was Cambodians as that was a very dangerous place to be, then El Salvadorians, Guatemalans and Mexicans today.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Burlington, Newfoundland and Labrador, Canada.
    Posts
    7,433

    Default Re: Thinking about my immigrant ancestors.....

    Quote Originally Posted by mdh View Post
    Did they get welfare, food stamps, housing, enroll in ESL classes at the public school?
    Your constant ignorant racial drivel makes me want to throw up. You are a prime example of why I have not renewed my passport and stopped visiting the US for business or pleasure.
    Stay calm, be brave....wait for the signs. Possibly precariously prevaricating.
    .

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    26,594

    Default Re: Thinking about my immigrant ancestors.....

    Quote Originally Posted by mdh View Post
    Did they get welfare, food stamps, housing, enroll in ESL classes at the public school?
    You don't want immigrants to learn English?

    Remarkable.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Apr 1999
    Location
    Hyannis, MA, USA
    Posts
    47,918

    Default Re: Thinking about my immigrant ancestors.....

    "We never hear the stories of immigrants coming here who fail." [#11]

    Maybe you didn't. Growing up near NYC, seeing tenements in the '50s and the crowded ethnic enclaves of Charlestown MA in the '90s, I have. Or for that matter, the families I worked with in northern New Hampshire (makes "The Beans of Egypt County Maine" look like success) and on Cape Cod, if you work among and for the poor, you know something about failure, abuse, dependency, and grossly bad health. Our tattered "safety net" is every bit as Darwinian savage as nature, red in tooth and claw.

    Poverty in America is not uniquely an immigrant problem. Too many families have passed on 'social-economic looser' genes since the nineteenth century.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    victoria, australia. (1 address now)
    Posts
    57,252

    Default Re: Thinking about my immigrant ancestors.....

    Middle America, like middle Victorian England, prospered on the graves of the poor and destitute.
    And that's not so far from the truth still. Poverty wages, redundant industries and unsustainable lifestyles. The poor are discarded or work themselves to death. The ghost of the cotton fields is still not far away.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Entry Level
    Posts
    19,867

    Default Re: Thinking about my immigrant ancestors.....

    When there was one guy in the boat, he couldn't row very fast. With two, it was better. With four, it was amazing. With ten, they capsized.
    Trust me to defend the Constitution just as soon as I'm sure you're going to vote for me again.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    26,594

    Default Re: Thinking about my immigrant ancestors.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian McColgin View Post
    I am personally more welcoming of the traditional immigrant - poor, oppressed in the homeland, brave, and clever-cunning-determined enough to get here. When I was with the DPU we often fielded consumer v utility credit problems where the voice of the consumer was a 12 year old. The parents were working but did not speak English. The immigrant generation are energetic and valuable. Their children are the real break outs.

    There is nothing wrong with highly educated immigrants. My physician got his MD from Dow Medical College in Karachi and his childhood language is Urdu. But I don't value immigrants who exploited great wealth from their homeland and are moving here for a bigger market to exploit.

    I don't have a program or answers but one need not be certain of the right way to know we're going the wrong way.
    Seems like the same people who say the immigrants are taking their jobs are claiming they are lazy bums sucking us dry with welfare. Facts just don't seem to matter.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Sitka, AK
    Posts
    27,307

    Default Re: Thinking about my immigrant ancestors.....

    Sounds like a great example of immigrants to the USA. They immigrated legally, eventual adapted to the American way of life, capitalized on it, and made their lives better.

    Apparently they didn't set up their own neighborhood system of laws based on their religion (not so say a home-schooled version is bad) and they quickly became Americans, and not Jewish-Americans.

    Glad you're here Norman.
    "Simple minds discuss people, Average minds discuss things, and Great minds discuss ideas".

  20. #20
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    St. Paul, MN Mississippi River Milepost 840.2
    Posts
    10,991

    Default Re: Thinking about my immigrant ancestors.....

    Quote Originally Posted by mdh View Post
    Did they get welfare, food stamps, housing, enroll in ESL classes at the public school?
    We've done this one already. They got MUCH better, including free land. My Swedish ancestors were given large landholdings in Nebraska just by showing up. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homestead_Acts

  21. #21
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    St. Paul, MN Mississippi River Milepost 840.2
    Posts
    10,991

    Default Re: Thinking about my immigrant ancestors.....

    Quote Originally Posted by mdh View Post
    First they break up the family, telling the mother that if she divorces the husband they’ll give her what she needs to raise the kids, fatherless. Then they hound the father for child support for the kids who live where he can’t. He counters by doing what he can for cash. It’s a miserable, intentional scheme to keep the poor poor. It’s a waste of money and lives. You can see the results in the dimocrat havens all over this country like Chicago, Baltimore, and St. Louis, and more. And the dimocrat answer to repairing the damage is more wasted money for a failed program. SMOGRAS
    You have absolutely no proof for this Trumpist wet dream. If you do, put up. If you don’t, shut up.

    More racist drooling about Scary Brown People in Chicago, Baltimore and St. Louis from a guy who’s probably never set foot in any of those cities. Sheesh.

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    downward bound
    Posts
    3,570

    Default Re: Thinking about my immigrant ancestors.....

    It's damn sad the emotional garbage Trumpists post as truth about what immigration "was". Because it's rooted in hate and ignorance and a poor figleaf for their racist nationalism.

  23. #23
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    St. Paul, MN Mississippi River Milepost 840.2
    Posts
    10,991

    Default Re: Thinking about my immigrant ancestors.....

    Quote Originally Posted by BrianW View Post
    Sounds like a great example of immigrants to the USA. They immigrated legally, eventual adapted to the American way of life, capitalized on it, and made their lives better.

    Apparently they didn't set up their own neighborhood system of laws based on their religion (not so say a home-schooled version is bad) and they quickly became Americans, and not Jewish-Americans.

    Glad you're here Norman.
    If Norman’s ancestors came at the turn of the century, there was no legal or illegal immigration. It was open to all.

    My ancestors did set up their own neighborhood (more county-wide) system of clubs and churches where most spoke Swedish instead of English. My French ancestors married English heritage people but spoke mostly French through their whole adult lives.

    Your core idea is right. Most immigrants become Americans pretty quickly. Some take a generation. Hasn’t seemed to hurt us much.

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    downward bound
    Posts
    3,570

    Default Re: Thinking about my immigrant ancestors.....

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Ross View Post
    If Norman’s ancestors came at the turn of the century, there was no legal or illegal immigration. It was open to all.
    Incorrect. We'd already established racist exclusion for Chinese immigrants - the Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882.

    Now there's some interesting history around immigration. Apparently many of the restrictions were state based, not federal. And a number of states restricted immigration of "paupers" even requiring bonds from ship captains for landing paupers. Now these weren't necessarily well enforced, but they were still law. So those "penniless" immigrants from Europe? Many were likely illegal. Including, perhaps, Normans relatives.

    Most immigrants contributed who they were to the vast richness of the USA. They didn't, and their children didn't, forget everything. That's why there's a Swedish Institute and Ingebretson's does a booming holiday trade in the twin cities. And there's still cultural links. The Czechs and eastern europeans, the Hmong and the Somalis, the Latinos have all added to the twin citys.

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    central cal
    Posts
    20,137

    Default Re: Thinking about my immigrant ancestors.....

    My immigrant ancestor is my grandpa.

    People who slur and smear immigrants suck.

    Peace,
    Robert

  26. #26
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    The Garden State
    Posts
    5,184

    Default Re: Thinking about my immigrant ancestors.....

    two of my Great Grandparents came from either Russia or the Land between Poland and Russia. My Great Grandmother was from Russia, she was sent over all alone as a child to protect her from the revolution as her parents were well to do teachers. My Great Grandfather was also sent over from Poland to keep him from being conscripted into the Russian Army.

    Did they do well? Not by any standard I know of. They settled with family friends in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan where he became an Iron Ore Minor and she raised 6 boys and a girl in a house with too few bedrooms.
    "If you think you are too small to make a difference, try sleeping with a mosquito"

    -Dalai Lama

  27. #27
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    St. Paul, MN Mississippi River Milepost 840.2
    Posts
    10,991

    Default Re: Thinking about my immigrant ancestors.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Conway View Post
    Incorrect. We'd already established racist exclusion for Chinese immigrants - the Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882.

    Now there's some interesting history around immigration. Apparently many of the restrictions were state based, not federal. And a number of states restricted immigration of "paupers" even requiring bonds from ship captains for landing paupers. Now these weren't necessarily well enforced, but they were still law. So those "penniless" immigrants from Europe? Many were likely illegal.
    You're absolutely right about the Chinese Exclusion Act. My mistake.

    Norman’s ancestors weren’t Chinese, so my reference was to the Immigration Act of 1924 which established broad quotas on immigration. Before those acts, there was no such thing as an illegal immigrant from Europe.

  28. #28
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Sitka, AK
    Posts
    27,307

    Default Re: Thinking about my immigrant ancestors.....

    Quote Originally Posted by amish rob View Post
    My immigrant ancestor is my grandpa.

    People who slur and smear immigrants suck.

    Peace,
    Robert
    Any immigrant… as in all immigrants are immune to slur and smear?

    Because in any segment of a population, there are people who suck. To deny this basic fact, is denial at its best.
    "Simple minds discuss people, Average minds discuss things, and Great minds discuss ideas".

  29. #29
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    downward bound
    Posts
    3,570

    Default Re: Thinking about my immigrant ancestors.....

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Ross View Post
    Norman’s ancestors weren’t Chinese, so my reference was to the Immigration Act of 1924 which established broad quotas on immigration. Before those acts, there was no such thing as an illegal immigrant from Europe.
    It's really sad no reporter asked Mr. Cuccinelli his opinion on the 1924 and 1921 immigration acts designed to restrict Italian immigration, among other "undesirables".

  30. #30
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    downward bound
    Posts
    3,570

    Default Re: Thinking about my immigrant ancestors.....

    Quote Originally Posted by BrianW View Post
    Any immigrant… as in all immigrants are immune to slur and smear?

    Because in any segment of a population, there are people who suck. To deny this basic fact, is denial at its best.
    Immigrants are harder working, more entrepreneurial, less likely to commit crimes then the standard US population.

    Who's the problem here?
    Last edited by Hugh Conway; 08-13-2019 at 11:24 PM.

  31. #31
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    central cal
    Posts
    20,137

    Default Re: Thinking about my immigrant ancestors.....

    Quote Originally Posted by BrianW View Post
    Any immigrantÖ as in all immigrants are immune to slur and smear?

    Because in any segment of a population, there are people who suck. To deny this basic fact, is denial at its best.
    Donít be coy.

    And certainly donít accuse ME of being in denial.

    Peace,
    Robert

  32. #32
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Tacoma, WA
    Posts
    13,240

    Default Re: Thinking about my immigrant ancestors.....

    Quote Originally Posted by mdh View Post
    Did they get welfare, food stamps, housing, enroll in ESL classes at the public school?
    All those were available through relatives, churches, ethnic communities, and charities.

    My friend Khalid came when he was 6. In 1976. His parents were taken in by the mosque and given 6 months housing. The Mormon church ran an outfit like Goodwill where mom and dad got some training and aculturation. Seattle Public Schools had free language classes, even though both had a British style grade school education.
    Dad got a job as a janitor cleaning offices. Moved to the U of W where he began as a janitor, mover on to operating engineer, and ended his career as the manager of two of the largest dormitories on a 30,000 student campus.
    Last edited by Jim Bow; 08-13-2019 at 11:43 PM.
    Ask me! I've got my Leatherman!

  33. #33
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    downward bound
    Posts
    3,570

    Default Re: Thinking about my immigrant ancestors.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Bow View Post
    All those were available through relatives, churches, ethnic communities, and charities.
    English was available at the public school. Foreign language studys were available in some public schools too. Foreign culture study - and adding them to University - was a source of political power.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knute_Nelson
    As a result of the 1880 census, the United States Congress decided to allocate one new congressional seat to the Upper Country, creating the Fifth Minnesota District. Nelson entered the race for this seat quietly. First he secured a seat on the Board of Regents at the University of Minnesota, where he managed to establish a Department of Scandinavian Studies.
    Knute was born a bastard, immigrated with his mother young, worked his butt off - including "degenerate" behavior like cursing and fighting because that's what it took to be a paperboy in Chicago. He later served in the legislature, the military and did this country proud.

    Stop being stupid Republicans.

  34. #34
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Central Coast, Ca
    Posts
    24,814

    Default Re: Thinking about my immigrant ancestors.....

    Quote Originally Posted by BrianW View Post
    Any immigrant… as in all immigrants are immune to slur and smear?

    Because in any segment of a population, there are people who suck. To deny this basic fact, is denial at its best.
    Whataboutery

  35. #35
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    oklahoma
    Posts
    5,504

    Default Re: Thinking about my immigrant ancestors.....

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Ross View Post
    You have absolutely no proof for this Trumpist wet dream. If you do, put up. If you donít, shut up.

    More racist drooling about Scary Brown People in Chicago, Baltimore and St. Louis from a guy whoís probably never set foot in any of those cities. Sheesh.
    More of your race baiting. If you canít see it, youíre blind. If you need an explanation, try reading some Dr. Carson, Thomas Sowell, Clarence Thomas, or Walter Williams.

    My Scottish ancestors came here in the 1700ís, married into the Cherokee tribe, and fought for the British. My French ancestor came to Indian Territory in the 1800ís and married a Cherokee after having fought for the Union. My English ancestors were here in the early 1700ís. My Cherokee ancestors were here first.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •