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Thread: Two Books

  1. #1
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    Default Two Books

    are out now on the Nixon Presidency. They don’t contain any of the mythical sourcing employed by Woodward and Bernstein, they are footnoted to official documents, recordings, in person interviews, etc. The Watergate thread revealed the tremendous lack of knowledge concerning the subject, so, for those interested, i am providing links to podcasts with the author. The books are: Nixon’s Gamble, and Haig’s Coup, by Ray Locker.

    Podcast for Nixon’s Gamble: https://midnightwriternews.com/mwn-e...nixons-gamble/

    Part 1 podcast for Haig’s Coup: https://midnightwriternews.com/mwn-e...rgate-part-1/m

    Part 2 podcast for Haig’s Coup: https://midnightwriternews.com/mwn-e...ergate-part-2/
    Ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country. John Fn Kennedy. (D)

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    Default Re: Two Books

    So, "Deep Throat" was a mythical character. I guess he didn't get the memo.Sadly, he's dead so Locker can't send him a copy.

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    Default Re: Two Books

    Quote Originally Posted by twodot View Post
    Water carried from deep in the fever swamp.

    Do not feed.
    Poor mdFnh!

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    Cool Re: Two Books

    Keep calm, persistence beats resistance.

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    Default Re: Two Books

    And again, tell us what you think of the moon landing.

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    Default Re: Two Books

    mdh, I take away from these interviews something completely opposed from your take.

    For some background, I served on a security detail attached to the secret service for Mr Nixon when he passed through NAS North Island in Coronado Cal. I was a member of the US Marine Barracks there as a Nuclear Weapons security detail, my last posting and year in the service.

    I became very interested in what the hell went wrong at that time as I was a rather conservative fellow.

    As I learned more about the whole deal, all branches of the government, the military, the industrial connections, I became quite disillusioned with the whole thing.

    Richard Nixon was a ruthless politician who would do anything to win. It got away from him is true, but he kept all his folks in the dark as to his plans. He basically destroyed the faith in the office.

    The best thing he did was convert me to a pissed off liberal, not necessarily Democrat but as Pless calls himself a Tree hugger.

    The books mentioned are fodder for Right Wing acolytes.
    Last edited by paulf; 08-11-2019 at 08:01 PM.
    PaulF

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    Default Re: Two Books

    Watergate wasn’t that complicated. They broke into the office of the opposition, and recorded themselves talking about it. It’s like today’s dumbass teenager who posts their crime on social media.
    Last edited by CK 17; 08-11-2019 at 08:04 PM.
    __________________________________________________ ________________________

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    Default Re: Two Books

    Published to fill a gap in the market, they'll do well in some circles I expect.

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    Default Re: Two Books

    To add: I see similarities in the current POTUS, but not the intelligence or civility of Nixon.
    PaulF

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    Default Re: Two Books

    Quote Originally Posted by paulf View Post

    The books mentioned are fodder for Right Wing acolytes.
    How do you come to this conclusion? The books, and the discussion in the podcasts present mostly documented occurrences. The few times in the interview when the author asks for an opinion, he is generally reluctant, but definitely obvious. Neither i, nor the author, are Nixon fans, but there is truth, and there is fiction.
    Ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country. John Fn Kennedy. (D)

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    Default Re: Two Books

    Quote Originally Posted by mdh View Post
    How do you come to this conclusion? The books, and the discussion in the podcasts present mostly documented occurrences. The few times in the interview when the author asks for an opinion, he is generally reluctant, but definitely obvious. Neither i, nor the author, are Nixon fans, but there is truth, and there is fiction.
    Documented occurrences are raw materials, documented by whom for whom. For example, we had an OV 10 bronco crash on the approach final at north island, no two accounts matched. I was almost killed by a Sikorsky CH 53 with 35 pacs on board at Khe Sanh I stood on the ground and saw this chopper crash 20 feet away from me, my account differed from several others. We all saw something different.

    Add to this, someone with an ax to grind, someone trying to spin things one way or the other, or someone who wants to make some money on a book. These are things all of us do regardless of how honest we are, we all bend it this way and that...all of us.
    PaulF

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    Cool Re: Two Books

    An opinionated opinion.
    Imagine that.
    Keep calm, persistence beats resistance.

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    Default Re: Two Books

    Quote Originally Posted by Domesticated_Mr. Know It All View Post
    An opinionated opinion.
    Imagine that.
    Ya Imagine.
    PaulF

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    Default Re: Two Books

    Quote Originally Posted by paulf View Post
    Documented occurrences are raw materials, documented by whom for whom.
    The books are footnoted, the podcasts are not. You’ve not been clear on what difference you have with either, though you certainly are convincing that you have them.
    Ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country. John Fn Kennedy. (D)

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    Default Re: Two Books

    Quote Originally Posted by mdh View Post
    The books are footnoted, the podcasts are not. You’ve not been clear on what difference you have with either, though you certainly are convincing that you have them.
    The time spent here to debate is , how do we say, wasted. I will most likely never convince you of of anything and You most likely not convince me likewise.
    If we should meet over a beer, we will surly see we have similar beliefs in places.

    At this moment my grandson is asking me to show him how to forge a stainless spoon. Sorry I have to go.

    P.S. He is way over heating the bar, and forging to long, into cold steel. Hence, over wrought.

    He'll get it!
    PaulF

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    Default Re: Two Books

    Quote Originally Posted by twodot View Post
    Maurice Delano Fn Humphrey
    Eh?
    Creationists aren't mad - they're possessed of demons.

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    Default Re: Two Books

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Longino View Post
    Poor mdFnh!
    Thank you for taking time away from your celebration to contribute.
    Ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country. John Fn Kennedy. (D)

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    Default Re: Two Books

    Why don't you remove that "n" from John F. Kennedy?
    It is disgusting!

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    Quote Originally Posted by twodot View Post
    ^He can't.

    Why?

    Because he was asked to.
    Months ago, maybe a year, when I first noticed that n, I contacted Scot and told him it was a rude affront to me and likely to most members.
    I got no response.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Two Books

    Can you hum the tune to “Offended Tattletale Texan”? I’ll try to work out the lead.
    Ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country. John Fn Kennedy. (D)

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    Quote Originally Posted by mdh View Post
    Can you hum the tune to “Offended Tattletale Texan”? I’ll try to work out the lead.
    You'd have too ask Bobbys about this, he's pushed the button on me already though he denies it of course.

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    Default Re: Two Books

    Quote Originally Posted by mdh View Post
    Can you hum the tune to “Offended Tattletale Texan”? I’ll try to work out the lead.
    Go tell Scot to hum that tune...he's the man who put that little black triangle at the bottom of every post.
    Tell him you don't like that triangle on your posts.

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    Default Re: Two Books

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Longino View Post
    Go tell Scot to hum that tune...he's the man who put that little black triangle at the bottom of every post.
    Tell him you don't like that triangle on your posts.
    Glen he is just jealous because folks told you happy birthday and he aint feelin no love.
    "para todo mal, mezcal, y para todo bien también" (for everything bad, mezcal, and for everything good, as well.)

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    Default Re: Two Books


  25. #25
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    Default Re: Two Books

    Sweet Mother of God reds are Stupid.
    The best statement I've seen from this latest carnage came from a student who lived through it -

    "My generation will not allow this to continue!"

    Remember voting age is 18. Read it and weep reds.

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    Default Re: Two Books

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobby of Tulsa View Post
    Glen he is just jealous because folks told you happy birthday and he aint feelin no love.
    It's purely amazing how even a thread w/ the OP on ignore can turn out to be good..

    Thanks be to great comments!



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    Default Re: Two Books

    I'm really surprised mdh is carrying water for someone to the left of former president Obama.

  28. #28
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    Default Re: Two Books

    .
    Amazon.com review of Nixon's Gamble;

    I'm tempted to give this three stars for "it's okay." But I'll go with four [out of five].

    I've long felt Nixon was a central actor in the 20th century, a man who accomplished great things but whose great faults brought him down. What Locker does nicely is to show how we cannot separate the good Nixon did from the evil. They are all of a piece. He had a clear view of what he wanted to accomplish in diplomacy. But he was convinced that getting that accomplished was only possible if he emasculated the State Department, bottled up the CIA and basically created his own governmental machinery that he could control. Then he broke laws freely and lied to everyone he dealt with. We're not talking about a few broken laws or a few lies.

    To Nixon, this was an acceptable bargain. He was so paranoid and cynical that he assumed he could get nothing accomplished if he respected laws and told the truth. We all know what came of that.

    I wish Locker had written with more felicity. He is clear, and I don't belittle that, but his recitations of bureaucratic infighting became tedious for me. It is possible to write history in a way that is more pleasant to read. I also would have appreciated a more active sense of the terrible cost (above all, to the nation) of Nixon's miserable legacy to us all. But at least I know what he did. I guess I can supply my own moral outrage.
    Amazon.com review of Haig's Coup:

    When General Alexander M. Haig Jr. returned to the White House on May 3, 1973, he found the Nixon administration in worse shape than he had imagined. President Richard Nixon, reelected in an overwhelming landslide just six months earlier, had accepted the resignations of his top aides—the chief of staff H. R. Haldeman and the domestic policy chief John Ehrlichman—just three days earlier.

    Haldeman and Ehrlichman had enforced the president’s will and protected him from his rivals and his worst instincts for four years. Without them, Nixon stood alone, backed by a staff that lacked gravitas and confidence as the Watergate scandal snowballed. Nixon needed a savior, someone who would lift his fortunes while keeping his White House from blowing apart. He hoped that savior would be his deputy national security adviser, Alexander Haig, whom he appointed chief of staff. But Haig’s goal was not to keep Nixon in office—it was to remove him.

    In Haig’s Coup, Ray Locker uses recently declassified documents to tell the true story of how Haig orchestrated Nixon’s demise, resignation, and subsequent pardon. A story of intrigues, cover-ups, and treachery, this incisive history shows how Haig engineered the “soft coup” that ended our long national nightmare and brought Watergate to an end.
    May Richard M. Nixon rot in Hell.
    .
    Last edited by Tom Montgomery; 08-12-2019 at 03:26 PM.
    "Trump's authoritarianism is a feature not a bug." -- Sky Blue





  29. #29
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    Default Re: Two Books

    Quote Originally Posted by paulf View Post
    mdh, I take away from these interviews something completely opposed from your take.

    For some background, I served on a security detail attached to the secret service for Mr Nixon when he passed through NAS North Island in Coronado Cal. I was a member of the US Marine Barracks there as a Nuclear Weapons security detail, my last posting and year in the service.

    I became very interested in what the hell went wrong at that time as I was a rather conservative fellow.

    As I learned more about the whole deal, all branches of the government, the military, the industrial connections, I became quite disillusioned with the whole thing.

    Richard Nixon was a ruthless politician who would do anything to win. It got away from him is true, but he kept all his folks in the dark as to his plans. He basically destroyed the faith in the office.

    The best thing he did was convert me to a pissed off liberal, not necessarily Democrat but as Pless calls himself a Tree hugger.

    The books mentioned are fodder for Right Wing acolytes.
    It was back before Nixon
    lied to us
    All on TV

    -- Merle Haggard, "Are The Good Times Really Over For Good"
    Trust me to defend the Constitution just as soon as I'm sure you're going to vote for me again.

  30. #30
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    Default Re: Two Books

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Montgomery View Post
    .
    Amazon.com review of Nixon's Gamble;



    Amazon.com review of Haig's Coup:



    May Richard M. Nixon rot in Hell.
    .
    Thank you, Tom.

    The first “Nixon’s Gamble” review actually complains about it not being opinionated enough, the review of “Haig’s Coup” attributes it as a factual account of what happened. Just exactly what i was saying. Too bad you didn’t post the reviews earlier, before several other posters had shown their disingenuousness. The books tell the truth about the Nixon administration and differs from Woodward and Bernstein in that respect. Those interested in truth and history will take notice, those who aren’t will either remain silent, or spew nonsense.
    Ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country. John Fn Kennedy. (D)

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    Default Re: Two Books

    And who says it's factual other than you meh?Since you're a Trump fan, you're mentioning fact is umm pretty funny. I mean you think Trump is factual at his rallies and tweets.

  32. #32
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    Default Re: Two Books

    Woodward and Bernstein made up the nixon fiasco?

    "We create our own reality" and holy **** is it weird.
    The best statement I've seen from this latest carnage came from a student who lived through it -

    "My generation will not allow this to continue!"

    Remember voting age is 18. Read it and weep reds.

  33. #33
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    Default Re: Two Books

    i.
    Uh huh.
    "Trump's authoritarianism is a feature not a bug." -- Sky Blue





  34. #34
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    Default Re: Two Books

    MDH wasn't even alive when Nixon was in office Ill bet, I was and in college. I am aware of what went on during that period because I lived it.

  35. #35
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    Default Re: Two Books

    ​.
    Ditto.
    "Trump's authoritarianism is a feature not a bug." -- Sky Blue





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