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Thread: Question on the 2nd amendment

  1. #1
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    Default Question on the 2nd amendment

    Is there a constitutional right to own a tank? A fully-armed combat aircraft? A Thomson submachine gun? Is there a line somewhere, and what is it? Who gets to set it?

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    Default Question on the 2nd amendment

    Yes, apparently, and unfortunately, in my opinion. Probably not an armed jet, but plenty of old fighter jets out there. All it takes is money. Lots of it.

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    Default Re: Question on the 2nd amendment

    Quote Originally Posted by The Gentleman Sawyer View Post
    Yes, apparently, and unfortunately, in my opinion. Probably not an armed jet, but plenty of old fighter jets out there. All it takes is money. Lots of it.

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    The question was an armed combat aircraft. Say a P-51 with operational guns.

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    Default Re: Question on the 2nd amendment

    Quote Originally Posted by The Gentleman Sawyer View Post
    Yes, apparently, and unfortunately, in my opinion. Probably not an armed jet, but plenty of old fighter jets out there. All it takes is money. Lots of it.

    Ken


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    The guy who played 'Worf' on the Star Trek: Next Generation series owns and flies an old jet fighter, something from the 1950's, I believe.
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    Default Re: Question on the 2nd amendment

    OP: It is fuzzy.

    Military fights other military.

    I feel that private citizens should have the right to any weapon possessed by domestic police agencies, because defensive needs are the same. If the police say, "You don't need a semi-auto rifle", my response would be, "Then neither do you." See how that works?

    Don't agree? Look up Ruby Ridge. The guy was a racist. But he didn't deserve to have his wife shot dead from hundreds of yards away by the FBI when she was no threat to the officers. This followed the killing of their 14 year old son, and family dog, by US Marshals.
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    Default Re: Question on the 2nd amendment

    I’m in. Can I get 19 more bilgerats to buy in with me! This would make a fun toy.

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    Default Re: Question on the 2nd amendment

    It depends upon who is interpreting the 2nd Amendment. The words in the actual second amendment are 'keep' and 'arms'. "keep" does not mean 'own' "arms' would include all weaponry.

    The first clause in the 2nd amendment says this amendment is written because of the need of a well regulated militia.

    THAT MILITIA, in article 1 sec. 8 was to be armed and trained BY THE GOVERNMENT, and to be called up to enforce laws, repel invasions, and suppress uprisings.

    That describes our military, National guard, and police. All armed and trained by the government, and all called upon to do those things.

    Unless one believes the 2nd gives one the right to have nuclear weapons, one must believe a line is to be drawn

    More importantly, if one put it in context, those who joined the militia got to keep all the arms the government supplied, which would have meant muskets, canons, possibly horses to pull the canons, etc.

    As far as owning weaponry, the constitution is actually silent. Sadly the Supreme Court did some linguistic gymnastics to interpret 'keep' as own. Then again the Supreme Court decided corporations are people and gave us Citizens United.

    They may get to interpret all of this, but they do make mistakes.
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    Default Re: Question on the 2nd amendment

    There was a story on 60 minutes or similar program a number of years ago about a privately owned Apache helicopter. As I recall, the guy went to military surplus auctions and bought all the parts he needed to assemble a complete helicopter. He was using it in his logging business. It wasn't armed, but the story left the impression that someone buying stuff from these auctions could easily do so. I have no idea whether this is true, but it would certainly be the slant I would expect from 60 minutes.

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    Default Re: Question on the 2nd amendment

    Again, the second amendment is a crap document. It can (has been, and is) be interpreted to mean almost anything. It’s useless.

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    Default Re: Question on the 2nd amendment

    Quote Originally Posted by Fonzoga View Post
    There was a story on 60 minutes or similar program a number of years ago about a privately owned Apache helicopter. As I recall, the guy went to military surplus auctions and bought all the parts he needed to assemble a complete helicopter. He was using it in his logging business. It wasn't armed, but the story left the impression that someone buying stuff from these auctions could easily do so. I have no idea whether this is true, but it would certainly be the slant I would expect from 60 minutes.
    Highly unlikely. Aside from the fact that the Apache is a $20+ million dollar bird, I really doubt the Pentagon is selling spare parts and airframes at auction.
    Was this program an Alex Jones podcast perhaps?
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    Default Re: Question on the 2nd amendment

    It is absolutely legal to own a tank or a military aircraft. However, anything that is classified as a Class III weapon (full auto, like a Thompson gun) or a destructive device (grenades, bombs, artillery shells, etc.) is highly regulated and generally not legal to own. So while it is legal to own a tank, it is not legal to own a functional main gun or machine gun on said tank. Same with aircraft. So Michael Dorn can fly his _unarmed_ MiG around all he likes as long as he can pay to run it. There are several hundred WWII aircraft still flying around the world but I doubt you'd find many with the original weaponry intact.

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    Default Re: Question on the 2nd amendment

    I’d like a type 1 phaser

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    Quote Originally Posted by Garth Jones View Post
    It is absolutely legal to own a tank or a military aircraft. However, anything that is classified as a Class III weapon (full auto, like a Thompson gun) or a destructive device (grenades, bombs, artillery shells, etc.) is highly regulated and generally not legal to own. So while it is legal to own a tank, it is not legal to own a functional main gun or machine gun on said tank. Same with aircraft. So Michael Dorn can fly his _unarmed_ MiG around all he likes as long as he can pay to run it. There are several hundred WWII aircraft still flying around the world but I doubt you'd find many with the original weaponry intact.


    Machine guns are relatively easy to buy. Find a class 3 dealer and take a fat wallet with you. Lots of paperwork if I recall from some years ago but it may be less now.

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    Default Re: Question on the 2nd amendment

    Quote Originally Posted by Reynard38 View Post
    I’m in. Can I get 19 more bilgerats to buy in with me! This would make a fun toy.

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    Default Re: Question on the 2nd amendment

    The constitution doesn't give citizens rights. Those rights are inherent to all mankind. The constitution tells the government what it cannot do.

    "Shall not be infringed."

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    Default Re: Question on the 2nd amendment

    Quote Originally Posted by Old Dryfoot View Post
    Highly unlikely. Aside from the fact that the Apache is a $20+ million dollar bird, I really doubt the Pentagon is selling spare parts and airframes at auction.
    Was this program an Alex Jones podcast perhaps?
    Not sure about Apaches, but the government does in fact sell off old aircraft...

    https://gsaauctions.gov/gsaauctions/...91QSCI19088601
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    Default Re: Question on the 2nd amendment

    Quote Originally Posted by BrianW View Post
    Not sure about Apaches, but the government does in fact sell off old aircraft...

    https://gsaauctions.gov/gsaauctions/...91QSCI19088601
    I never meant to imply that they didn't, I just don't see them sell off any Apaches for the next 20 years.
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    Default Re: Question on the 2nd amendment

    Assuming bear means carry, maybe if you can not lift it, it is not covered by the second amendment.

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    Default Re: Question on the 2nd amendment

    Quote Originally Posted by SeanM26 View Post
    The constitution doesn't give citizens rights. Those rights are inherent to all mankind. The constitution tells the government what it cannot do.

    "Shall not be infringed."
    The gov’t already infringes on your “right” to bear automatic weapons. This isn’t 1791. Present day “arms” didn’t exist then.

    The 2nd is an anachronism and irrelevant in todays world.

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    Default Re: Question on the 2nd amendment

    Quote Originally Posted by SeanM26 View Post
    The constitution doesn't give citizens rights. Those rights are inherent to all mankind. The constitution tells the government what it cannot do.

    "Shall not be infringed."
    Rights are not inherent. Rights are what your society says they are, as expressed through legislation.

    If they are inherent, show me where they are written down by any one other than any government agencies.
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    Default Re: Question on the 2nd amendment

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    Rights are not inherent. Rights are what your society says they are, as expressed through legislation.

    If they are inherent, show me where they are written down by any one other than any government agencies.
    If there were no government who would deprive you of your rights? Where does government get these rights you say they can give? Can you give an example of a right that is given by the government?
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    Default Re: Question on the 2nd amendment

    Quote Originally Posted by SeanM26 View Post
    The constitution doesn't give citizens rights. Those rights are inherent to all mankind. The constitution tells the government what it cannot do.

    "Shall not be infringed."
    Refers to the militia, where does the 2nd Amendment say ALL citizens are included. And the well regulated militia to protect their local community from Hostiles foreign and internal On top of that, flintlocks were the choice of guns in 1789, not AR 15s.

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    Default Re: Question on the 2nd amendment

    Lots of drift here, but I hadn't heard of a "Class III weapon". Who decides what is in this category?

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    Default Re: Question on the 2nd amendment

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan McCosh View Post
    Lots of drift here, but I hadn't heard of a "Class III weapon". Who decides what is in this category?
    The legislature.
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    Default Re: Question on the 2nd amendment

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan McCosh View Post
    Lots of drift here. . .
    lol
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    Default Re: Question on the 2nd amendment

    Might as well toss in one more: Given the right to bear arms in the Constitution, how could the US Army prevent Blacks from serving in the military, and maintain segregated combat units?

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    Default Re: Question on the 2nd amendment

    Quote Originally Posted by SeanM26 View Post
    The constitution doesn't give citizens rights. Those rights are inherent to all mankind. The constitution tells the government what it cannot do.

    "Shall not be infringed."
    Oh sh!t. We’ve got another one.
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    Default Re: Question on the 2nd amendment

    If one reads the 2nd Amendment carefully snout, it refers strictly to a well regulated militia, when it speaks about not to be infringed, it refers to that well regulated militia. It doesn't refer to anyone but, this group; it doesn't mention citizens but, it does mention militia.

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    Default Re: Question on the 2nd amendment

    Question for the right, what is your definition of well regulated militia? I'm asking because I doubt this who scream the loudest are not part of any well regulated militia.Minutemen, later called militia practiced on the Green at certain times. The drilled, marched, learned to load and fire weapons as rapidly as possible. They had Captains, and me in charge.

    At Lexiungton?Concord they were minutemen, same function, they were under the command of a man named Captain Parker showing that there was a chain of command and NOT just men running around shooting at anything they saw. It was regulated. Bundy was not a militia just a bunch of men, mostly relatives with guns.
    Last edited by S.V. Airlie; 08-11-2019 at 03:23 PM.

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    Default Re: Question on the 2nd amendment

    Quote Originally Posted by Old Dryfoot View Post
    I never meant to imply that they didn't, I just don't see them sell off any Apaches for the next 20 years.
    The Apache has been around for a long time. The same amount of time that the Blackhawk in the link has been around. They are also selling Chinooks from the same era.

    They “de-militarize” those airframes before selling them. Mostly involving certain electronics. There is nothing inherently different on an Apache from a Blackhawk that would prevent them from being sold off. In fact Boeing makes them now, as well as the Chinook. Boeing told the government they won’t upgrade the older Chinooks anymore, that they will only sell them new ones. Which is why you can buy a Chinook from GSA. So it’s no stretch to believe they’ll do the same with Apaches.

    Perhaps they could be further stripped down and turned into longline (firefighting/construction) birds?

    I’ve pulled out all the extra wiring and misc. brackets, etc out of Blackhawks, and that stuff adds up to hundreds of pounds quite easily.
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    Default Re: Question on the 2nd amendment

    Ron.

    I believe the firearm act of 1968 is the source of most current gun laws.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_Control_Act_of_1968
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    Default Re: Question on the 2nd amendment

    "Simple minds discuss people, Average minds discuss things, and Great minds discuss ideas".

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    Default Re: Question on the 2nd amendment

    This post is temporary and my disappear at the discretion of the managment

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    Default Re: Question on the 2nd amendment

    Quote Originally Posted by BrianW View Post
    The Apache has been around for a long time. The same amount of time that the Blackhawk in the link has been around. They are also selling Chinooks from the same era.

    They “de-militarize” those airframes before selling them. Mostly involving certain electronics. There is nothing inherently different on an Apache from a Blackhawk that would prevent them from being sold off. In fact Boeing makes them now, as well as the Chinook. Boeing told the government they won’t upgrade the older Chinooks anymore, that they will only sell them new ones. Which is why you can buy a Chinook from GSA. So it’s no stretch to believe they’ll do the same with Apaches.

    Perhaps they could be further stripped down and turned into longline (firefighting/construction) birds?

    I’ve pulled out all the extra wiring and misc. brackets, etc out of Blackhawks, and that stuff adds up to hundreds of pounds quite easily.
    They will sell to anyone..except JOP!
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    Default Re: Question on the 2nd amendment

    Quote Originally Posted by paulf View Post
    They will sell to anyone..except JOP!


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