Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 123 ... LastLast
Results 36 to 70 of 107

Thread: What is statistically linked to mass shootings?

  1. #36
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Walney, near Cumbria UK
    Posts
    45,887

    Default Re: What is statistically linked to mass shootings?

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    The bottom line is,
    "There have been 255 mass shootings in the US in 2019, and 8,936 people have died from gun violence, according to the Gun Violence Archive." and it's only August.



    and 39,773 in 2017.

    That's the bottom line. There's a lot of obsfurcation going on in this thread and others. And in American society as a whole., but I do not expect anything of substance to be done, the NRA owns the legislatures, and now likely the courts.
    Whilst the citizenry as a whole are content to allow the killing to continue. The did naff all after Sandy Hook, and have done nowt of substance since.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

    The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web
    The weakness of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web.

  2. #37
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    26,155

    Default Re: What is statistically linked to mass shootings?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    How does that work?
    Your settlers were peaceable Europeans trying to escape oppression. I am descended from the same people that you are descended from, am I not?
    I certainly might be wrong. Take a look at the chart Dryfoot posted. It looks like Britain is as crime infested as America, the difference is that there are fewer gun death because there are fewer guns. After all, my post was based on murder rates, not violent crimes. If you assault someone with your fists, you are a lot less likely to kill them than if you assault them with a gun. Here's a chart of gun ownership by country:



    Clearly, Switzerland, Sweden, and Finland are not in our league.

    Here's a map of the murder rate:



    https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F...icide_rate.svg
    English: Map of the world by homicide rate according to latest UNODC data. See List of countries by intentional homicide rate.

    As you can see, guns aren't the only issue, there's also the question of rule of law. Mexico has an awful problem with violent crime, and has passed laws intended to restrict the ownership of weapons as a result, but endemic corruption means that the people most likely to kill someone enjoy impunity from the enforcement of those laws against them.
    Last edited by johnw; 08-10-2019 at 04:59 PM.

  3. #38
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Do you have a warrant?
    Posts
    5,136

    Default Re: What is statistically linked to mass shootings?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan McCosh View Post
    That's a poor assumption. I think most of the "mass shooters" had a history of relatively quiet alienation.
    +! (!)

    Social Isolation.

    A great movie, Taxi Driver (1976) is a work of fiction, but with strong threads of reality. Some feel the story reflects a former soldier with PTSD. I disagree, from what I have seen of PTSD (he's too calm and calculating). I think it accurately depicts someone who is socially isolated, and the effects. EDIT: And with self-esteem issues.
    Last edited by Bob (oh, THAT Bob); 08-10-2019 at 05:07 PM.
    When you can take the pebble from my hand, it will be time for you to leave.

  4. #39
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Do you have a warrant?
    Posts
    5,136

    Default Re: What is statistically linked to mass shootings?

    ^^johnw: Respect! "He learns."

    Fist assaults: Yeah, much less likely to kill. But still have tremendous traumatic effect on people that can last a lifetime. So does childhood bullying. I'm not satisfied with just stopping gun deaths. I am truly sincere when I say this alone is a low bar, and that we can do much better. Other countries with gun ownership do. Why can't we? I'll tell ya why, because the greedy have learned how to USE the gun issue to perpetuate their greed via political power grabs. Even a little more taxes to help save the nation in the long term? Nope. They only care about their personal wealth, now. And the less public education is funded, the more stupid people become, and the more easily they are manipulated.
    When you can take the pebble from my hand, it will be time for you to leave.

  5. #40
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Nebraska
    Posts
    22,170

    Default Re: What is statistically linked to mass shootings?

    I think you’re wrong- but maybe? Only way you get gun legislation is if voters want it. To accomplish this depends on how they vote. Republicans don’t really oppose restrictions- they want the issue, for the votes. Power. Rather like abortion. Where are the votes?
    But there are several factors wrt violence. Go after them all. All it requires is responsible adults.
    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

  6. #41
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Walney, near Cumbria UK
    Posts
    45,887

    Default Re: What is statistically linked to mass shootings?

    Quote Originally Posted by johnw View Post
    I certainly might be wrong. Take a look at the chart Dryfoot posted. It looks like Britain is as crime infested as America, the difference is that there are fewer gun death because there are fewer guns. After all, my post was based on murder rates, not violent crimes. If you assault someone with your fists, you are a lot less likely to kill them than if you assault them with a gun. Here's a chart of gun ownership by country:



    Clearly, Switzerland, Sweden, and Finland are not in our league.

    Here's a map of the murder rate:



    https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F...icide_rate.svg
    English: Map of the world by homicide rate according to latest UNODC data. See List of countries by intentional homicide rate.

    As you can see, guns aren't the only issue, there's also the question of rule of law. Mexico has an awful problem with violent crime, and has passed laws intended to restrict the ownership of weapons as a result, but endemic corruption means that the people most likely to kill someone enjoy impunity from the enforcement of those laws against them.
    Yes, you are in a league of your own.
    1 United States 120.5
    2 Falkland Islands 62.1
    3 Yemen 52.8
    That is guns per 100 people. Yes you have 20% more guns than people.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

    The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web
    The weakness of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web.

  7. #42
    Join Date
    Jan 2000
    Location
    Portland, Maine
    Posts
    18,210

    Default Re: What is statistically linked to mass shootings?

    Quote Originally Posted by wizbang 13 View Post


    I’m not saying these drugs aren’t a part of the problem but they are prescribed in other countries and those countries don’t have the mass shooting problems that we have.

  8. #43
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    26,155

    Default Re: What is statistically linked to mass shootings?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob (oh, THAT Bob) View Post
    I think you're all missing my point.

    Let's say that gun control is implemented today and all the shootings stop (which they won't, but let us say they do). That's a low bar! There are monstrous amounts of other violence happening in this country. Addressing the root causes of violence "runs the table" on ALL of that violence! And injustices! Which meshes perfectly with the societal goals of liberals like me.

    Further, if gun control is implemented, it will totally backfire. You think it was easy for Trump to win last time? Holy Hell. Gun control legislation is EXACTLY what conservatives WANT. They pretend not, but true. Because it would sweep into power, even more hyper-conservatives. And then they simply REPEAL any and all of the gun control restrictions, to massive applause from their base. Zero accomplished against violence and equity, more hyper-conservatives in power. More corruption and craziness.

    If the leading Democratic presidential and congressional candidates come out in favor of more stringent gun control measures, game over, we're screwed.

    Tell me I'm wrong.

    Discuss!
    I think you missed post 29. Here's the chart Old Dryfoot posted:


    7) America is an outlier when it comes to gun deaths, but not overall crime


    It would be one thing if the US happened to have more crime than other nations, but the existing data shows that not to be the case. America is only an outlier when it comes to homicides and, specifically, gun violence, according to data from Jeffrey Swanson at Duke University.

    As Zack Beauchamp explained for Vox, a breakthrough analysis in the 1990s by UC Berkeleyís Franklin Zimring and Gordon Hawkins found that the US does not, contrary to the old conventional wisdom, have more crime in general than other Western industrial nations. Instead, the US appears to have more lethal violence ó and thatís driven in large part by the prevalence of guns.

    ďA series of specific comparisons of the death rates from property crime and assault in New York City and London show how enormous differences in death risk can be explained even while general patterns are similar,Ē Zimring and Hawkins wrote. ďA preference for crimes of personal force and the willingness and ability to use guns in robbery make similar levels of property crime 54 times as deadly in New York City as in London.Ē

    This is in many ways intuitive: People of every country get into arguments and fights with friends, family, and peers. But in the US, itís much more likely that someone will get angry at an argument and be able to pull out a gun and kill someone.



    Source
    https://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...cs-maps-charts
    According to this, violent crime is more prevalent in the UK than here, yet their homicide rate is much lower. How do you explain this?

  9. #44
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Do you have a warrant?
    Posts
    5,136

    Default Re: What is statistically linked to mass shootings?

    Quote Originally Posted by johnw View Post
    Clearly, Switzerland, Sweden, and Finland are not in our league.
    That's only because of the total number of guns owned by many Americans, including myself; I used to shoot in competition, the number of guns was not unlike the number of golf clubs in a set, each with a competitive purpose. And I hunted. And I have my dad's guns. And I collected vintage firearms. And I used to have a dealer license and have half a dozen guns left from when I folded the business. (And by the way, all are locked away in heavy safes, the ammo locked away separately.)

    But it only takes one gun to kill. The countries you mentioned have a high rate of gun ownership, based on one or more guns in the household. You only need one.

    Also, guns are way more expensive over there. So are cars. Which tends to bias ownership of both toward those with higher education. Which is saying a lot, because all of the people in those nations, on average, have far more advanced education than the average in the USA. They also have free college I think. And free medical and mental health care.
    When you can take the pebble from my hand, it will be time for you to leave.

  10. #45
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    26,155

    Default Re: What is statistically linked to mass shootings?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan McCosh View Post
    That's a poor assumption. I think most of the "mass shooters" had a history of relatively quiet alienation.
    I think many of them did not. From the link in the OP:

    The men who carried out the shootings at the Pulse nightclub in Orlando, Florida; a social-services center in San Bernardino, California; a Baptist church in Sutherland Springs, Texas; and a country-music festival in Las Vegas had all stalked or abused women before.
    Connor Betts, who carried out the shooting in Dayton, Ohio, has been described as having a two-column "hit list" in high school: a "kill list" for boys and a "rape list" for girls, one of Betts' former classmates told CNN. Another classmate said Betts would often use harsh language about women. On Sunday, Betts shot and killed his own sister.
    A 2018 analysis published by Everytown, a nonprofit dedicated to reducing US gun violence, indicated that in at least 54% of mass shootings the perpetrator also shot a current or former intimate partner or family member.

  11. #46
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Tacoma, WA
    Posts
    12,632

    Default Re: What is statistically linked to mass shootings?

    The right wing trope about prescribed medications was created out of thin air by infowars types.
    Show us the published medical records or med examiner reports.
    Stop repeating ****e that can not be sourced.
    Ask me! I've got my Leatherman!

  12. #47
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    26,155

    Default Re: What is statistically linked to mass shootings?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob (oh, THAT Bob) View Post
    That's only because of the total number of guns owned by many Americans, including myself; I used to shoot in competition, the number of guns was not unlike the number of golf clubs in a set, each with a competitive purpose. And I hunted. And I have my dad's guns. And I collected vintage firearms. And I used to have a dealer license and have half a dozen guns left from when I folded the business. (And by the way, all are locked away in heavy safes, the ammo locked away separately.)

    But it only takes one gun to kill. The countries you mentioned have a high rate of gun ownership, based on one or more guns in the household. You only need one.

    Also, guns are way more expensive over there. So are cars. Which tends to bias ownership of both toward those with higher education. Which is saying a lot, because all of the people in those nations, on average, have far more advanced education than the average in the USA. They also have free college I think. And free medical and mental health care.
    We do have a strange pattern, with a small and declining number of people who own an increasingly large number of guns each. But how do you explain the pattern noted in post #44?

  13. #48
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Walney, near Cumbria UK
    Posts
    45,887

    Default Re: What is statistically linked to mass shootings?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob (oh, THAT Bob) View Post
    That's only because of the total number of guns owned by many Americans, including myself; I used to shoot in competition, the number of guns was not unlike the number of golf clubs in a set, each with a competitive purpose. And I hunted. And I have my dad's guns. And I collected vintage firearms. And I used to have a dealer license and have half a dozen guns left from when I folded the business. (And by the way, all are locked away in heavy safes, the ammo locked away separately.)

    But it only takes one gun to kill. The countries you mentioned have a high rate of gun ownership, based on one or more guns in the household. You only need one.

    Also, guns are way more expensive over there. So are cars. Which tends to bias ownership of both toward those with higher education. Which is saying a lot, because all of the people in those nations, on average, have far more advanced education than the average in the USA. They also have free college I think. And free medical and mental health care.
    Mistaken assumptions in several areas.
    University education is no longer free, it is financed by loans that have to be repaid. Very attractive arrangement but no longer free. Your biggest error is about those who hunt.
    I belong to an association that has a wild fowling section, one of several in the area, there is also a rifle range. All will have members from all strata of society. Hunting is also very popular in many European nations, specifically amongst the rural population who will not be in the wealthiest strata of their society.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

    The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web
    The weakness of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web.

  14. #49
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Uki, NSW, Australia
    Posts
    29,564

    Default Re: What is statistically linked to mass shootings?

    These threads keep dancing around the fact the mass killings are carried out using semi automatic weapons.
    Itís like you have a thorn in your hand but rather than pull it out you keep wanting to dull the pain.
    To do something good
    with no
    Because.

  15. #50
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    26,155

    Default Re: What is statistically linked to mass shootings?

    Quote Originally Posted by WX View Post
    These threads keep dancing around the fact the mass killings are carried out using semi automatic weapons.
    It’s like you have a thorn in your hand but rather than pull it out you keep wanting to dull the pain.
    You apparently did not read the link in the OP. Access to guns, according to that article, is one of the keys.

  16. #51
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Walney, near Cumbria UK
    Posts
    45,887

    Default Re: What is statistically linked to mass shootings?

    Quote Originally Posted by johnw View Post
    You apparently did not read the link in the OP. Access to guns, according to that article, is one of the keys.
    Yep, and
    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    Easy access to guns = four shootings a day.
    Easy access to big capacity magazines and rapid fire weapons = multiple mass shootings with dozens of victims each time every year.
    Get rid of guns designed and manufactured to kill people and the shootings all but stop.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

    The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web
    The weakness of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web.

  17. #52
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Do you have a warrant?
    Posts
    5,136

    Default Re: What is statistically linked to mass shootings?

    Quote Originally Posted by johnw View Post
    We do have a strange pattern, with a small and declining number of people who own an increasingly large number of guns each. But how do you explain the pattern noted in post #44?
    Agree with first sentence. I do not know if they are accumulating many of the same gun for the apocalypse, or resale when prices go up, or like me, different guns for different purposes. But again, it should not matter, because it only takes one gun to kill; Therefore, the emotional state of a gun owner is more important than the number of guns. AND, the number of guns is not an indication of emotional state. All the time I see news reports of a guy arrested, they do a search, and they say he "had an arsenal of guns! and thousands of rounds of ammunition!". For like 10 guns. I have something like 30 guns. When I shot competition, I would burn up 200 rounds a weekend (and that would take all day, two days of the National Match Course), more in the week of the National Matches, so would reload over the winter to stockpile (reloading high power is very time consuming). Due to shipping costs and bulk discounts, I usually bought .22 caliber ammo in cases of 10 "bricks", equal to 5000 rounds. I probably have... I dunno... 10,000 once-fired empty shell casings in .30-06, saved from match competition where I was issued ammo; Those cases are valuable as .30-06 is no longer a US military cartridge and commercial cartridges are expensive. Those would allow me to make reloads for friend's hunting rifles, cheaper, and the load "tuned" to their specific rifle.

    Pattern: Yes, guns are more lethal than knives. So are explosives and truck-attacks. We are a creative lot. Take something away, people will find substitutes. And knife attacks are on the rise in the UK. Again, a) I want to greatly reduce all violence, and this could actually be a golden opportunity for the government to address the root causes, having tremendous positive impact on the nation, and b) gun control will vastly help Trump and his lot in the next election, and then get repealed soon thereafter. Please remember, I am very, very liberal on social, financial, environmental issues, et al. But I still get the American Rifleman (NRA life member, needed for competition, and it was uber-cheap as a minor) and I see the craziness in the pages each month. Trump and the NRA are joined at the hip. Please trust me; Gun control passes, things are going to go real bad in November 2020. Heck, against the advice of the NRA, I voted for Barack Obama. Twice. And Hillary (the lesser of evils). But late in Obama's second term, when he merely suggested gun control legislation, I knew the Dems were going to be in deep trouble in 2016. I think my words at the time were, "You idiot. It's what the Rs want."
    Last edited by Bob (oh, THAT Bob); 08-10-2019 at 06:28 PM.
    When you can take the pebble from my hand, it will be time for you to leave.

  18. #53
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Do you have a warrant?
    Posts
    5,136

    Default Re: What is statistically linked to mass shootings?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    Mistaken assumptions in several areas.
    University education is no longer free, it is financed by loans that have to be repaid. Very attractive arrangement but no longer free. Your biggest error is about those who hunt.
    I belong to an association that has a wild fowling section, one of several in the area, there is also a rifle range. All will have members from all strata of society. Hunting is also very popular in many European nations, specifically amongst the rural population who will not be in the wealthiest strata of their society.
    Sincere thanks for your corrections.
    When you can take the pebble from my hand, it will be time for you to leave.

  19. #54
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Do you have a warrant?
    Posts
    5,136

    Default Re: What is statistically linked to mass shootings?

    Quote Originally Posted by WX View Post
    These threads keep dancing around the fact the mass killings are carried out using semi automatic weapons.
    Itís like you have a thorn in your hand but rather than pull it out you keep wanting to dull the pain.
    I'd be looking to figure out how I got that thorn in my hand. Otherwise I pull it out, and another appears soon after.
    When you can take the pebble from my hand, it will be time for you to leave.

  20. #55
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Uki, NSW, Australia
    Posts
    29,564

    Default Re: What is statistically linked to mass shootings?

    Quote Originally Posted by johnw View Post
    You apparently did not read the link in the OP. Access to guns, according to that article, is one of the keys.
    Access to semi automatic weapons is the main problem as i see it...to start with.
    To do something good
    with no
    Because.

  21. #56
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Do you have a warrant?
    Posts
    5,136

    Default Re: What is statistically linked to mass shootings?

    Quote Originally Posted by WX View Post
    Access to semi automatic weapons is the main problem as i see it...to start with.
    When I shot in competition at the state and national level, what rifle did I use? A semi-automatic. Why? Because it was a "service rifle". Why? Because the state gave me a free (WWII surplus) rifle and surplus ammunition to do so, plus travel TDY. Why? Because (never stated but assumed) it would make me more useful in a time of war. Which is why I was also required to attend the Small Arms Firing School at the National Matches, taught by the U.S. Army Marksmanship Unit, and teaching the operation and firing of the (current issue) M-16 rifle (with safety tabs affixed to prevent full-automatic fire).

    Don't blame me. I'm just doing what I was encouraged and trained to do by the government. See how that works?
    Last edited by Bob (oh, THAT Bob); 08-10-2019 at 06:59 PM.
    When you can take the pebble from my hand, it will be time for you to leave.

  22. #57
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    26,155

    Default Re: What is statistically linked to mass shootings?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob (oh, THAT Bob) View Post
    Agree with first sentence. I do not know if they are accumulating many of the same gun for the apocalypse, or resale when prices go up, or like me, different guns for different purposes. But again, it should not matter, because it only takes one gun to kill; Therefore, the emotional state of a gun owner is more important than the number of guns. AND, the number of guns is not an indication of emotional state. All the time I see news reports of a guy arrested, they do a search, and they say he "had an arsenal of guns! and thousands of rounds of ammunition!". For like 10 guns. I have something like 30 guns. When I shot competition, I would burn up 200 rounds a weekend (and that would take all day, two days of the National Match Course), more in the week of the National Matches, so would reload over the winter to stockpile (reloading high power is very time consuming). Due to shipping costs and bulk discounts, I usually bought .22 caliber ammo in cases of 10 "bricks", equal to 5000 rounds. I probably have... I dunno... 10,000 once-fired empty shell casings in .30-06, saved from match competition where I was issued ammo; Those cases are valuable as .30-06 is no longer a US military cartridge and commercial cartridges are expensive. Those would allow me to make reloads for friend's hunting rifles, cheaper, and the load "tuned" to their specific rifle.

    Pattern: Yes, guns are more lethal than knives. So are explosives and truck-attacks. We are a creative lot. Take something away, people will find substitutes. And knife attacks are on the rise in the UK. Again, a) I want to greatly reduce all violence, and this could actually be a golden opportunity for the government to address the root causes, having tremendous positive impact on the nation, and b) gun control will vastly help Trump and his lot in the next election, and then get repealed soon thereafter. Please remember, I am very, very liberal on social, financial, environmental issues, et al. But I still get the American Rifleman (NRA life member, needed for competition, and it was uber-cheap as a minor) and I see the craziness in the pages each month. Trump and the NRA are joined at the hip. Please trust me; Gun control passes, things are going to go real bad in November 2020. Heck, against the advice of the NRA, I voted for Barack Obama. Twice. And Hillary (the lesser of evils). But late in Obama's second term, when he merely suggested gun control legislation, I knew the Dems were going to be in deep trouble in 2016. I think my words at the time were, "You idiot. It's what the Rs want."
    Well, it's a thorny problem.

    Most of my friends who owned guns did so not because they needed them, but because they liked them. I don't mind that. But when I covered the police beat as a journalist, it was pretty shocking how often burglaries resulted in guns being stolen.

    I don't think we'll be able to pass legislation that takes away people's guns the way Australia did. I do think we'd have a lot fewer gun deaths if we had a licensing system like Sweden's, and found some way to get people to lock up their guns the way you do.

    One thing that really irks me is that for years, we banned any research into the causes of gun deaths by the CDC, and even now we don't allow it if it promotes gun control. This sounds like the CDC isn't allowed to consider most of the obvious legislation that would reduce the number of gun deaths. And I see no justification for the law that protects gun manufacturers from being sued for what their product does.

    https://lawcenter.giffords.org/gun-l...stry-immunity/

  23. #58
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    26,155

    Default Re: What is statistically linked to mass shootings?

    Quote Originally Posted by WX View Post
    Access to semi automatic weapons is the main problem as i see it...to start with.
    And since that was stated in the article we're discussing, and has been discussed on this thread, how are we dancing around that fact?

  24. #59
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Do you have a warrant?
    Posts
    5,136

    Default Re: What is statistically linked to mass shootings?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    If that is your view of your nation, if I were you I would emigrate.
    Quoting my father:"But they would take my guns away."

    My dad, a very educated man, believes in social justice, voted for Trump.
    me: "I thought you said Trump was crazy?!"
    him: "He is crazy. But Hillary wants to take my guns away."
    me: *facepalm*

    Mark my words, more gun control passes, the republicans will have a field day in 2020.

    By the way, regarding mental health screening: Be careful what you wish for. The ACLU might rightfully have a problem with this, as it could result in widespread discrimination for everything from employment to housing to insurance. It currently happens with those released from prison. Or with past, transient mental issues; If you have ever been diagnosed with depression or anxiety in the past, try to get long-term disability or life insurance. Even if exclusions for mental health or suicide, they'll tell you, "depressed people have more accidents".

    Second, imagine the following scenario:

    Someone comes home from military service overseas. They have bad PTSD and want to get treatment. But they have guns, used to hunt with their parent, want to do so in the future. So they are afraid of seeking help if that means mandatory confiscation of their firearms (something being proposed). This is already happening as during the Obama administration, they implemented rules that anyone receiving military or social security benefits to a "designated payee" automatically implied mental deficiency, putting them on a gun-ban list. Even the ACLU jumped in and said that was a slippery slope, and some had a designated payee just because a relative was better at managing their finances. One of those bans is still in place because it was implemented more than a year before Trump took office, but the other he was able to kill because it was implemented in the closing months of Obama's term, and to huge applause and kudos from folks affected. That was a freebie for Trump.

    If you want someone to do something (seek mental health treatment), don't penalize them for doing so (take away their guns and place them on a gun-ban list).
    Last edited by Bob (oh, THAT Bob); 08-10-2019 at 07:07 PM.
    When you can take the pebble from my hand, it will be time for you to leave.

  25. #60
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Nebraska
    Posts
    22,170

    Default Re: What is statistically linked to mass shootings?

    A small point- “
    Pattern: Yes, guns are more lethal than knives. So are explosives and truck-attacks. We are a creative lot. Take something away, people will find substitutes.”- yes, we do. It’s just a lot more difficult to arrange a truck and fertilizer/ bomb, than to buy an AR-15 and ammo.

    Carry on.

    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

  26. #61
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Do you have a warrant?
    Posts
    5,136

    Default Re: What is statistically linked to mass shootings?

    Quote Originally Posted by johnw View Post
    But when I covered the police beat as a journalist, it was pretty shocking how often burglaries resulted in guns being stolen.
    Agree. I think there should be a safe in every house or apartment. Won't stop a pro with a lot of time, but will stop common thieves. Good, strong ones are very difficult to move, but I would like if every home had a safe, so you move, you leave the one in your home, and your new home has one. Would also reduce the theft of other valuables.

    During the great recession, I proposed gearing up depressed manufacturers to produce gun safes (it's not rocket surgery) and distribute them to the public at cost. Would have been a win-win. Nobody listens to me.
    When you can take the pebble from my hand, it will be time for you to leave.

  27. #62
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Do you have a warrant?
    Posts
    5,136

    Default Re: What is statistically linked to mass shootings?

    Quote Originally Posted by George Jung View Post
    A small point- “
    Pattern: Yes, guns are more lethal than knives. So are explosives and truck-attacks. We are a creative lot. Take something away, people will find substitutes.”- yes, we do. It’s just a lot more difficult to arrange a truck and fertilizer/ bomb, than to buy an AR-15 and ammo.

    Carry on.

    The waiting period is shorter.
    When you can take the pebble from my hand, it will be time for you to leave.

  28. #63
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Nebraska
    Posts
    22,170

    Default Re: What is statistically linked to mass shootings?

    Yes, but 1) not everyone can drive a truck 2) not everyone knows how to buy a butt load of fertilizer. 3) not everyone knows how to make it go boom. Go for good, over perfection .
    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

  29. #64
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Victoria BC
    Posts
    11,973

    Default Re: What is statistically linked to mass shootings?

    Quote Originally Posted by George Jung View Post
    Yes, but 1) not everyone can drive a truck 2) not everyone knows how to buy a butt load of fertilizer. 3) not everyone knows how to make it go boom. Go for good, over perfection .
    Just eliminating open and concealed carry would have a huge impact. No more dead people because of a parking lot argument. No more dead kids because they found a purse gun or dads hiding spot under the car seat. Those are real results. Attainable results.
    Nosce te ipsum

  30. #65
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Do you have a warrant?
    Posts
    5,136

    Default Re: What is statistically linked to mass shootings?

    Quote Originally Posted by Old Dryfoot View Post
    Just eliminating open and concealed carry would have a huge impact. No more dead people because of a parking lot argument. No more dead kids because they found a purse gun or dads hiding spot under the car seat. Those are real results. Attainable results.
    Statistics on people killed by open and concealed carry holders?

    Don't get me wrong, I think better training should be mandated. Like ownership in the other thread, I would propose that anyone carrying a gun in public must have the same level of training for use and competency. Police, security guards, private citizens, anyone.

    But numbers matter. People are proposing solutions that would not have stopped these shooters, so what's the point?
    When you can take the pebble from my hand, it will be time for you to leave.

  31. #66
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Saint Helena Island, SC
    Posts
    9,904

    Default Re: What is statistically linked to mass shootings?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Montgomery View Post
    .
    How many mass shooting perpetrators have been female?

    Don't females have just as easy access to firearms as males? Aren't females just as prone to mental illness?
    Testosterone then.
    Fight Entropy, build a wooden boat!

  32. #67
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Victoria BC
    Posts
    11,973

    Default Re: What is statistically linked to mass shootings?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob (oh, THAT Bob) View Post
    People are proposing solutions that would not have stopped these shooters, so what's the point?
    Seriously? What's the point?

    It would have stopped two-year-old Kayden Stuber from shooting himself with grandmas gun after he found it in her purse.



    How many children die from accidental shootings each year? Are they not worth thinking about too? Or does it only matter if ALL forms of gun violence can be magically ended while allowing everyone to keep their guns?
    Nosce te ipsum

  33. #68
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Nebraska
    Posts
    22,170

    Default Re: What is statistically linked to mass shootings?

    Surprised, bob- you really gonna hold out for ‘one perfect action ‘? Guns really that important?
    Last edited by George Jung; 08-10-2019 at 09:56 PM.
    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

  34. #69
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Uki, NSW, Australia
    Posts
    29,564

    Default Re: What is statistically linked to mass shootings?

    Quote Originally Posted by johnw View Post
    And since that was stated in the article we're discussing, and has been discussed on this thread, how are we dancing around that fact?
    Look at what people are saying in their comments. Better and more secure storage will not stop the legal gun owner from going on a killing spree. Removing semi automatic weapons from the public will not result in a truck bomb spree. Removing open carry and concealed weapons will reduce the number of deaths due to acts of stupidity.
    To do something good
    with no
    Because.

  35. #70
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    26,155

    Default Re: What is statistically linked to mass shootings?

    Quote Originally Posted by WX View Post
    Look at what people are saying in their comments. Better and more secure storage will not stop the legal gun owner from going on a killing spree. Removing semi automatic weapons from the public will not result in a truck bomb spree. Removing open carry and concealed weapons will reduce the number of deaths due to acts of stupidity.
    The kind of licensing they have in Switzerland usually works. Better and more secure storage will prevent many accidental deaths, and keep many guns out of the hands of criminals.

    Mass casualty events are not the only problem. A whole lot more people die of suicide. We need to deal with the whole gun violence problem, and no one policy is likely to fix things.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •