Page 1 of 4 12 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 35 of 108

Thread: What is statistically linked to mass shootings?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    26,167

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    United States of Stupid
    Posts
    11,730

    Default Re: What is statistically linked to mass shootings?

    Video games were never the problem.
    In the US this perverted idea of “blood and soil” over “constitutional principles” is the most radical and anti-democratic and anti-Conservative idea I have heard in my lifetime.

    ~C. Ross

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Posts
    56,375

    Default Re: What is statistically linked to mass shootings?

    You could have at least warned us you were going to spoiler the punchline.

    And here I was going to guess LavaLamps...
    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    https://www.facebook.com/HarborWoodworks/

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    seattle
    Posts
    16,558

    Default Re: What is statistically linked to mass shootings?

    I talked to a long time friend yesterday who happens to be Republican and a Trump voter (yes it has strained our friendship but we’ve mostly learned to avoid some subjects). But hard to avoid the subject of the mass shootings the last few days. But as we briefly touched on it I noticed his initial comment was that violent video games are the cause. This now seems to be the Fox/Republican standard line in spite of overwhelming evidence to the contrary. The El Paso shooter admitted he was targeting Mexicans. He didn’t get that from a video game. Yet Walmart has pulled video games but continues to sell guns.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    South Puget Sound/summer Eastern carib./winter
    Posts
    16,387

    Default Re: What is statistically linked to mass shootings?


  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Grosse Pointe, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    14,422

    Default Re: What is statistically linked to mass shootings?

    Being statistically linked is not a cause, or even demonstration of a propensity.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 1999
    Location
    Louisville, Kentucky
    Posts
    28,431

    Default Re: What is statistically linked to mass shootings?

    .
    How many mass shooting perpetrators have been female?

    Don't females have just as easy access to firearms as males? Aren't females just as prone to mental illness?
    "Trump's authoritarianism is a feature not a bug." -- Sky Blue





  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Walney, near Cumbria UK
    Posts
    45,884

    Default Re: What is statistically linked to mass shootings?

    Quote Originally Posted by wizbang 13 View Post
    I am sure that there are hundreds of young men on Prozac and similar prescription meds in the UK. Now find me the stats on UK's mass killings please.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

    The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web
    The weakness of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    South Puget Sound/summer Eastern carib./winter
    Posts
    16,387

    Default Re: What is statistically linked to mass shootings?

    I'm sure there are millions of people who were in kayaks yesterday without PFD's that did not drown too.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    26,167

    Default Re: What is statistically linked to mass shootings?

    From the link:

    Following the shootings in Dayton and El Paso, Trump blamed the violence on "mentally ill monsters." He called for improvements to mental-health treatment and, "when necessary, involuntary confinement" of mentally ill people.
    But people with mental illness are far more likely to be victims of violent crime than perpetrators.
    A 2016 study from the American Psychiatric Association found that "mass shootings by people with serious mental illness represent less than 1% of all yearly gun-related homicides." Overall, people with mental illness contribute to only about 3% of violent crimes, the study found.
    "Routinely blaming mass shootings on mental illness is unfounded and stigmatizing," the American Psychological Association's president, Rosie Phillips Davis, said in a statement on Monday. "The rates of mental illness are roughly the same around the world, yet other countries are not experiencing these traumatic events as often as we face them."

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    26,167

    Default Re: What is statistically linked to mass shootings?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan McCosh View Post
    Being statistically linked is not a cause, or even demonstration of a propensity.
    A propensity for one thing to be linked to another is precisely what statistic links show.

    And if you want to get into the nature of causation, I can recommend David Hume:

    https://www.iep.utm.edu/hume-cau/
    Hume shows that experience does not tell us much. Of two events, A and B, we say that A causes B when the two always occur together, that is, are constantly conjoined. Whenever we find A, we also find B, and we have a certainty that this conjunction will continue to happen. Once we realize that “A must bring about B” is tantamount merely to “Due to their constant conjunction, we are psychologically certain that B will follow A”, then we are left with a very weak notion of necessity. This tenuous grasp on causal efficacy helps give rise to the Problem of Induction--that we are not reasonably justified in making any inductive inference about the world. Among Hume scholars it is a matter of debate how seriously Hume means us to take this conclusion and whether causation consists wholly in constant conjunction.
    Do you have a philosophy of causation that solves this problem?

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Walney, near Cumbria UK
    Posts
    45,884

    Default Re: What is statistically linked to mass shootings?

    Quote Originally Posted by wizbang 13 View Post
    I'm sure there are millions of people who were in kayaks yesterday without PFD's that did not drown too.
    Do you reserve being silly for Saturdays?

    Is it a natural skill or do you have to work at it?
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

    The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web
    The weakness of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Grosse Pointe, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    14,422

    Default Re: What is statistically linked to mass shootings?

    It ought to be obvious the all shootings are linked to a gun. That doesn't explain the motive.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Walney, near Cumbria UK
    Posts
    45,884

    Default Re: What is statistically linked to mass shootings?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan McCosh View Post
    It ought to be obvious the all shootings are linked to a gun. That doesn't explain the motive.
    Motive? There will always be motives. Johns link talked of Domestic Abuse. There will always be domestic abuse, it tends to run in families as learned behaviour passed down the generations. That cannot be fixed quick or easily. Easy access to big magazine rapid fire weapons can be fixed.

    Work on the possible. hen go after the next easiest fix.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

    The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web
    The weakness of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Grosse Pointe, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    14,422

    Default Re: What is statistically linked to mass shootings?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    Motive? There will always be motives. Johns link talked of Domestic Abuse. There will always be domestic abuse, it tends to run in families as learned behaviour passed down the generations. That cannot be fixed quick or easily. Easy access to big magazine rapid fire weapons can be fixed.

    Work on the possible. hen go after the next easiest fix.
    I live in an area where there are roughly four shootings a day, one of which results in death. Most are handguns. I do think military arms should be highly regulated, but the mass shootings are an expression of something far more pervasive than the type of gun used.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Ballard
    Posts
    8,305

    Default Re: What is statistically linked to mass shootings?

    Men are the common thread in mass shootings.
    Quote Originally Posted by James McMullen View Post
    Yeadon is right, of course.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Do you have a warrant?
    Posts
    5,149

    Default Re: What is statistically linked to mass shootings?

    Quote Originally Posted by johnw View Post
    Access to guns, yes, video games, no.
    https://www.businessinsider.com/thin...science-2019-8
    Not consistently. Finland, Switzerland, et al, have high gun ownership rates (and in the case of Switzerland, automatic service weapons), but low rates of violence. That means that guns are not the root cause.

    When you look across the board at countries with low rates of violence (whether they have guns or not), the common threads are: Good universal standard of living, great education, less disparity in income, good quality socialized medicine and mental health care, good family support and social communities, and not celebrating violence in general.

    What does correlate to gun violence? High rates of ALL violence as a whole. Shootings. Stabbings. Fist assaults. Road rage. Spousal abuse. Bullying. Sanctioned bare knuckle cage fights. Celebrating violence in the media ("Bring it on.") And those are due to lack of all of the above.

    A rare exception was the attacks in New Zealand, perpetrated by foreign citizens. That's a terrorist attack by individuals. If it was sanctioned by a foreign power, an act of war. The shooting in Norway by a domestic citizen with very high casualties (77 killed), extremely unusual for the country. And what was the perpetrator's sentence? 21 years, with ability to continue if still judged mentally ill; That sentence speaks to the compassion of the nation, which is why violence is so rare there. And the killer's weapon? A Ruger Mini-14, in production since 1973. Not much different from semi-auto designs around for 100 years. If that was the cause, we'd have had mass shootings much earlier. What has changed? Certainly not the gun designs.

    Where guns are tougher to get, like France, bombs, truck attacks into crowds. But even there, attacks with guns are not unheard of. Guns are as controllable as illicit narcotics; You reduce abuse by reducing demand, supply is nearly impossible if high demand.
    When you can take the pebble from my hand, it will be time for you to leave.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Walney, near Cumbria UK
    Posts
    45,884

    Default Re: What is statistically linked to mass shootings?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan McCosh View Post
    I live in an area where there are roughly four shootings a day, one of which results in death. Most are handguns. I do think military arms should be highly regulated, but the mass shootings are an expression of something far more pervasive than the type of gun used.
    Easy access to guns = four shootings a day.
    Easy access to big capacity magazines and rapid fire weapons = multiple mass shootings with dozens of victims each time every year.
    Get rid of guns designed and manufactured to kill people and the shootings all but stop.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

    The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web
    The weakness of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Do you have a warrant?
    Posts
    5,149

    Default Re: What is statistically linked to mass shootings?

    Quote Originally Posted by johnw View Post
    A propensity for one thing to be linked to another is precisely what statistic links show.

    And if you want to get into the nature of causation, I can recommend David Hume:

    https://www.iep.utm.edu/hume-cau/

    Do you have a philosophy of causation that solves this problem?
    One has to take off the blinders, look at other issues, and identify the true root cause(s).

    The space shuttle almost always launched during the day when the sky was blue. It also has a US flag on the outside. Without looking objectively at the causes of the fatal mission failures, one could conclude that those factors were at cause.

    Root cause analysis. When you have the true root cause, you can turn the problem on and off like a light switch.

    The UK, Switzerland, both have low rates of gun violence. The UK has low rates of gun ownership. Switzerland has HIGH rates of gun ownership. Therefore, guns are not the root cause, by scientific definition. By the way, stabbings are on the rise in the UK. That's because violence as a whole is increasing, not because there is an excess of knives. Knives have been around a long time.
    When you can take the pebble from my hand, it will be time for you to leave.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Walney, near Cumbria UK
    Posts
    45,884

    Default Re: What is statistically linked to mass shootings?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob (oh, THAT Bob) View Post
    Not consistently. Finland, Switzerland, et al, have high gun ownership rates (and in the case of Switzerland, automatic service weapons), but low rates of violence. That means that guns are not the root cause.

    When you look across the board at countries with low rates of violence (whether they have guns or not), the common threads are: Good universal standard of living, great education, less disparity in income, good quality socialized medicine and mental health care, good family support and social communities, and not celebrating violence in general.

    What does correlate to gun violence? High rates of ALL violence as a whole. Shootings. Stabbings. Fist assaults. Road rage. Spousal abuse. Bullying. Sanctioned bare knuckle cage fights. Celebrating violence in the media ("Bring it on.") And those are due to lack of all of the above.

    A rare exception was the attacks in New Zealand, perpetrated by foreign citizens. That's a terrorist attack by individuals. If it was sanctioned by a foreign power, an act of war. The shooting in Norway by a domestic citizen with very high casualties (77 killed), extremely unusual for the country. And what was the perpetrator's sentence? 21 years, with ability to continue if still judged mentally ill; That sentence speaks to the compassion of the nation, which is why violence is so rare there. And the killer's weapon? A Ruger Mini-14, in production since 1973. Not much different from semi-auto designs around for 100 years. If that was the cause, we'd have had mass shootings much earlier. What has changed? Certainly not the gun designs.

    Where guns are tougher to get, like France, bombs, truck attacks into crowds. But even there, attacks with guns are not unheard of. Guns are as controllable as illicit narcotics; You reduce abuse by reducing demand, supply is nearly impossible if high demand.
    Did you miss this in Johns link
    By contrast, Switzerland, which has high gun ownership but hasn't seen a mass shooting in 18 years, has strict gun policies including rigorous licensing procedures (including training) and restrictions on who can buy guns.
    Their policies also include regulations on storage et all.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

    The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web
    The weakness of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web.

  21. #21
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Posts
    2,953

    Default Re: What is statistically linked to mass shootings?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob (oh, THAT Bob) View Post
    What does correlate to gun violence? High rates of ALL violence as a whole. Shootings. Stabbings. Fist assaults. Road rage. Spousal abuse. Bullying. Sanctioned bare knuckle cage fights. Celebrating violence in the media ("Bring it on.") And those are due to lack of all of the above.
    Yep. Few things would send me into a homicidal rage like Kirsten Dunst.



    Maybe Gabrielle Union.
    \"A little too tall, coulda used a few pounds...\"

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Nebraska
    Posts
    22,248

    Default Re: What is statistically linked to mass shootings?

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/10/u...gtype=Homepage


    The motivations of men who commit mass shootings are often muddled, complex or unknown. But one common thread that connects many of them — other than access to powerful firearms — is a history of hating women, assaulting wives, girlfriends and female family members, or sharing misogynistic views online, researchers say.”
    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Do you have a warrant?
    Posts
    5,149

    Default Re: What is statistically linked to mass shootings?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    Did you miss this in Johns link
    Their policies also include regulations on storage et all.
    Window dressing. The Las Vegas shooter could have easily passed any of those restrictions. He was professional, successful, completely normal-seeming. Except for sociopathy.

    By contrast, the citizens of Switzerland are for the most part, pretty happy people.

    This is like that moment in Bowling for Columbine when Michael Moore says (and I'm summarizing), "Canada has tons of guns; Why so little gun violence?" EXACTLY. Except then he doesn't investigate that. It's because Canada has low rates of violence as whole. Because of all the social factors I mentioned.
    When you can take the pebble from my hand, it will be time for you to leave.

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    26,167

    Default Re: What is statistically linked to mass shootings?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob (oh, THAT Bob) View Post
    Not consistently. Finland, Switzerland, et al, have high gun ownership rates (and in the case of Switzerland, automatic service weapons), but low rates of violence. That means that guns are not the root cause.

    When you look across the board at countries with low rates of violence (whether they have guns or not), the common threads are: Good universal standard of living, great education, less disparity in income, good quality socialized medicine and mental health care, good family support and social communities, and not celebrating violence in general.

    What does correlate to gun violence? High rates of ALL violence as a whole. Shootings. Stabbings. Fist assaults. Road rage. Spousal abuse. Bullying. Sanctioned bare knuckle cage fights. Celebrating violence in the media ("Bring it on.") And those are due to lack of all of the above.

    A rare exception was the attacks in New Zealand, perpetrated by foreign citizens. That's a terrorist attack by individuals. If it was sanctioned by a foreign power, an act of war. The shooting in Norway by a domestic citizen with very high casualties (77 killed), extremely unusual for the country. And what was the perpetrator's sentence? 21 years, with ability to continue if still judged mentally ill; That sentence speaks to the compassion of the nation, which is why violence is so rare there. And the killer's weapon? A Ruger Mini-14, in production since 1973. Not much different from semi-auto designs around for 100 years. If that was the cause, we'd have had mass shootings much earlier. What has changed? Certainly not the gun designs.

    Where guns are tougher to get, like France, bombs, truck attacks into crowds. But even there, attacks with guns are not unheard of. Guns are as controllable as illicit narcotics; You reduce abuse by reducing demand, supply is nearly impossible if high demand.
    Such a defeatist!

    The laws in the countries you named are a lot different than ours, and while Switzerland has made their's tougher in response to an increase in crime, they still have one of the highest rates of gun deaths in Europe.

    As for Sweden:

    https://www.sweden.org.za/gun-laws-in-sweden.html
    It is illegal for a civilian in Sweden to carry a firearm, unless for a specific, legal purpose;such as hunting or attending shooting ranges. To transport firearms, there are rules to adhere to;the general regulations are that the gun must be unloaded, hidden and transported in a safe and secure way under supervision.
    All of the countries you mentioned have strict licensing laws about who may own a gun.

    That said, our society has a lot to do with the level of violence. I laid out my theory about this in my blog:

    http://booksellersvsbestsellers.blog...o-violent.html

    Basically, new world societies retain some of the characteristics of the settlers at the time of their settlement. I think we are violent, in part, because we are anachronistic.

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Grosse Pointe, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    14,422

    Default Re: What is statistically linked to mass shootings?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    Easy access to guns = four shootings a day.
    Easy access to big capacity magazines and rapid fire weapons = multiple mass shootings with dozens of victims each time every year.
    Get rid of guns designed and manufactured to kill people and the shootings all but stop.
    Actually, I used own a gun that I bought in a hardware store in Ontario, when I was 14 years old. No questions asked. Windsor, Ontario, appears to be the safest city on the planet, with one homicide in two years. It is across the river from Detroit, which is averaging one homicide a day, with more stringent gun controls, albeit most are acquired via the anarchy of the streets. So-called "access" to guns is not such an easy thing to control.

  26. #26
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Nebraska
    Posts
    22,248

    Default Re: What is statistically linked to mass shootings?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob (oh, THAT Bob) View Post
    Not consistently. Finland, Switzerland, et al, have high gun ownership rates (and in the case of Switzerland, automatic service weapons), but low rates of violence. That means that guns are not the root cause.

    When you look across the board at countries with low rates of violence (whether they have guns or not), the common threads are: Good universal standard of living, great education, less disparity in income, good quality socialized medicine and mental health care, good family support and social communities, and not celebrating violence in general.

    What does correlate to gun violence? High rates of ALL violence as a whole. Shootings. Stabbings. Fist assaults. Road rage. Spousal abuse. Bullying. Sanctioned bare knuckle cage fights. Celebrating violence in the media ("Bring it on.") And those are due to lack of all of the above.

    A rare exception was the attacks in New Zealand, perpetrated by foreign citizens. That's a terrorist attack by individuals. If it was sanctioned by a foreign power, an act of war. The shooting in Norway by a domestic citizen with very high casualties (77 killed), extremely unusual for the country. And what was the perpetrator's sentence? 21 years, with ability to continue if still judged mentally ill; That sentence speaks to the compassion of the nation, which is why violence is so rare there. And the killer's weapon? A Ruger Mini-14, in production since 1973. Not much different from semi-auto designs around for 100 years. If that was the cause, we'd have had mass shootings much earlier. What has changed? Certainly not the gun designs.

    Where guns are tougher to get, like France, bombs, truck attacks into crowds. But even there, attacks with guns are not unheard of. Guns are as controllable as illicit narcotics; You reduce abuse by reducing demand, supply is nearly impossible if high demand.
    you make some good points here- but don’t minimize the effect of such easy access to high capacity weapons. Plus, you make the classic mistake of letting ‘perfect ‘ be the enemy of good. Change doesn’t require perfection in one swell swoop, to be effective.
    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

  27. #27
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Do you have a warrant?
    Posts
    5,149

    Default Re: What is statistically linked to mass shootings?

    Quote Originally Posted by George Jung View Post
    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/10/u...gtype=Homepage


    The motivations of men who commit mass shootings are often muddled, complex or unknown. But one common thread that connects many of them — other than access to powerful firearms — is a history of hating women, assaulting wives, girlfriends and female family members, or sharing misogynistic views online, researchers say.”
    +1. The US has a huge amount of work to do there, starting from a young age. Self esteem issues and personality expectations among men, more compassion and acceptance in relationships (and in making/response to romantic overtures) from both men and women.

    I'm in a new relationship beginning just over a year ago, best ever. She doesn't expect me to be macho. She understands that underneath my tough double-front Carhartts (tm) I have a soft gooey center, and need to sometimes express vulnerability, and she accepts and wants that. It's extremely comforting to my fragile male ego. And she rubs my tummy. Seriously, this is a big deal.
    When you can take the pebble from my hand, it will be time for you to leave.

  28. #28
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Walney, near Cumbria UK
    Posts
    45,884

    Default Re: What is statistically linked to mass shootings?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan McCosh View Post
    So-called "access" to guns is not such an easy thing to control.
    It just requires a consistent set of regulations consistently enforced across all of the US of A. No exceptions, no driving across the city limits to avoid restrictions, consistency agreed and promulgated from the top down.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

    The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web
    The weakness of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web.

  29. #29
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Victoria BC
    Posts
    11,981

    Default Re: What is statistically linked to mass shootings?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob (oh, THAT Bob) View Post
    Window dressing. The Las Vegas shooter could have easily passed any of those restrictions. He was professional, successful, completely normal-seeming. Except for sociopathy.

    By contrast, the citizens of Switzerland are for the most part, pretty happy people.

    This is like that moment in Bowling for Columbine when Michael Moore says (and I'm summarizing), "Canada has tons of guns; Why so little gun violence?" EXACTLY. Except then he doesn't investigate that. It's because Canada has low rates of violence as whole. Because of all the social factors I mentioned.
    When an argument breaks out in another country over a parking space, nobody dies. In America, you take your life in your hands. . .



    7) America is an outlier when it comes to gun deaths, but not overall crime


    It would be one thing if the US happened to have more crime than other nations, but the existing data shows that not to be the case. America is only an outlier when it comes to homicides and, specifically, gun violence, according to data from Jeffrey Swanson at Duke University.

    As Zack Beauchamp explained for Vox, a breakthrough analysis in the 1990s by UC Berkeley’s Franklin Zimring and Gordon Hawkins found that the US does not, contrary to the old conventional wisdom, have more crime in general than other Western industrial nations. Instead, the US appears to have more lethal violence — and that’s driven in large part by the prevalence of guns.

    “A series of specific comparisons of the death rates from property crime and assault in New York City and London show how enormous differences in death risk can be explained even while general patterns are similar,” Zimring and Hawkins wrote. “A preference for crimes of personal force and the willingness and ability to use guns in robbery make similar levels of property crime 54 times as deadly in New York City as in London.”

    This is in many ways intuitive: People of every country get into arguments and fights with friends, family, and peers. But in the US, it’s much more likely that someone will get angry at an argument and be able to pull out a gun and kill someone.
    Source
    https://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...cs-maps-charts
    Last edited by Old Dryfoot; 08-10-2019 at 04:25 PM.
    Nosce te ipsum

  30. #30
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Do you have a warrant?
    Posts
    5,149

    Default Re: What is statistically linked to mass shootings?

    Quote Originally Posted by George Jung View Post
    you make some good points here- but don’t minimize the effect of such easy access to high capacity weapons. Plus, you make the classic mistake of letting ‘perfect ‘ be the enemy of good. Change doesn’t require perfection in one swell swoop, to be effective.
    I think you're all missing my point.

    Let's say that gun control is implemented today and all the shootings stop (which they won't, but let us say they do). That's a low bar! There are monstrous amounts of other violence happening in this country. Addressing the root causes of violence "runs the table" on ALL of that violence! And injustices! Which meshes perfectly with the societal goals of liberals like me.

    Further, if gun control is implemented, it will totally backfire. You think it was easy for Trump to win last time? Holy Hell. Gun control legislation is EXACTLY what conservatives WANT. They pretend not, but true. Because it would sweep into power, even more hyper-conservatives. And then they simply REPEAL any and all of the gun control restrictions, to massive applause from their base. Zero accomplished against violence and equity, more hyper-conservatives in power. More corruption and craziness.

    If the leading Democratic presidential and congressional candidates come out in favor of more stringent gun control measures, game over, we're screwed.

    Tell me I'm wrong.

    Discuss!
    Last edited by Bob (oh, THAT Bob); 08-10-2019 at 04:26 PM.
    When you can take the pebble from my hand, it will be time for you to leave.

  31. #31
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Walney, near Cumbria UK
    Posts
    45,884

    Default Re: What is statistically linked to mass shootings?

    Quote Originally Posted by johnw View Post


    Basically, new world societies retain some of the characteristics of the settlers at the time of their settlement. I think we are violent, in part, because we are anachronistic.
    How does that work?
    Your settlers were peaceable Europeans trying to escape oppression. I am descended from the same people that you are descended from, am I not?
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

    The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web
    The weakness of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web.

  32. #32
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Walney, near Cumbria UK
    Posts
    45,884

    Default Re: What is statistically linked to mass shootings?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob (oh, THAT Bob) View Post
    I think you're all missing my point.

    Let's say that gun control is implemented today and all the shootings stop (which they won't, but let us say they do). That's a low bar! There are monstrous amounts of other violence happening in this country. Addressing the root causes of violence "runs the table" on ALL of that violence! And injustices! Which meshes perfectly with the societal goals of liberals like me.

    Further, if gun control is implemented, it will totally backfire. You think it was easy for Trump to win last time? Holy Hell. Gun control legislation is EXACTLY what conservatives WANT. They pretend not, but true. Because it would sweep into power, even more hyper-conservatives. And then they simply REPEAL any and all of the gun control restrictions, to massive applause from their base. Zero accomplished against violence and equity, more hyper-conservatives in power. More corruption and craziness.

    Tell me I'm wrong.

    Discuss!
    If that is your view of your nation, if I were you I would emigrate.

    As to your first paragraph. Reducing the mayhem to the level that we have to live with is going to be a win for the USA. Not perfect but sooooo much better than the crap your nation is happy to put up with now.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

    The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web
    The weakness of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web.

  33. #33
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Bradford, VT
    Posts
    7,483

    Default Re: What is statistically linked to mass shootings?

    A lot of the Business Insider article is based on an abstract of an article, sloppy in itself. The methodology outlined in the abstract uses a very heterogeneous set of subjects, rendering their analysis highly suspect.
    Violence seems a common thread. The US seems to be a violent place, although that may also be patchily distributed by cultural differences.
    I would suspect that for almost all shooters, mass and otherwise, the shooting was not their first violent act.

  34. #34
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Grosse Pointe, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    14,422

    Default Re: What is statistically linked to mass shootings?

    Quote Originally Posted by David W Pratt View Post
    A lot of the Business Insider article is based on an abstract of an article, sloppy in itself. The methodology outlined in the abstract uses a very heterogeneous set of subjects, rendering their analysis highly suspect.
    Violence seems a common thread. The US seems to be a violent place, although that may also be patchily distributed by cultural differences.
    I would suspect that for almost all shooters, mass and otherwise, the shooting was not their first violent act.
    That's a poor assumption. I think most of the "mass shooters" had a history of relatively quiet alienation.

  35. #35
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Walney, near Cumbria UK
    Posts
    45,884

    Default Re: What is statistically linked to mass shootings?

    Quote Originally Posted by David W Pratt View Post
    A lot of the Business Insider article is based on an abstract of an article, sloppy in itself. The methodology outlined in the abstract uses a very heterogeneous set of subjects, rendering their analysis highly suspect.
    Violence seems a common thread. The US seems to be a violent place, although that may also be patchily distributed by cultural differences.
    I would suspect that for almost all shooters, mass and otherwise, the shooting was not their first violent act.
    However smacking their partners about, or a drunken brawl at chucking out time is not normally lethal. In the US with so many guns in so many households . . . ?
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

    The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web
    The weakness of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •