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Thread: Original formula For Marine Glue

  1. #1
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    Default Original formula For Marine Glue

    As of 1897 this is the formula for Jefferies Marine Glue as was used by the Brittish Navy it its original form.
    "This composition is said to be composed of 1 part India-rubber, 12 mineral naphtha or coal tar heated gently, and 20 parts of shellac mixed with it. The manufacturer of this marine glue is Mr. Jeffery, Limhouse."

    This information was taken from the 1897 Treatus of Yacht Architecture by Dixon Kemp.
    I am sure that the india rubber, spoken of, was supplied gum form. Gum rubber or "cacoutchouc" is its original name. Since Jefferies Marine Glue is still being made, I think that the ingredients can still be found. However, I should think that buying a block of the good stuff is a simpler way of getting it.
    Jay
    Last edited by Jay Greer; 08-10-2019 at 01:08 PM.

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    Default Re: Original formula For Marine Glue

    Ghastly and wonderful, all at the same time...

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    I know this is an old thread, but is seems like 12 mineral naptha might be an out of use term for crude oil rather than what we'd call naptha today. This would make sense if it was used interchangeablely with coal tar.

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    Default Re: Original formula For Marine Glue

    I found the India Rubber Lady;
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1zhzeFMLz5A

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    Default Re: Original formula For Marine Glue

    Since I have never tried to mix this marine seam compound from scratch, I can't comment from a practical point of mixing it up. I am just the messenger on this one. Jefferies Marine Glue can still be purchased from Davie & Co. rather than having to mix it from scratch. For those of you who do not know about it, this seam compound for the paying deck seams, is still much better than any of the rubber compounds in a tube that are currently being offered to the unsuspecting boating public that later complains about separating and leaking deck seams. If Jefferies should crack in cold weather, all that is needed is to run a hot iron over the void and it will melt back into place. If it gets too soft in the summer, sloshing a bucket of cool sea water will set it right!

    I do think that Naptha is a key component of this compound and so, I would try to find it by hook or crook before resorting from another kind of thinner. Lighter fluid was once made of naphtha. It might still be.
    Jay

    https://rwrope.com/classic-boat-supp...k-marine-glue/
    Last edited by Jay Greer; 11-08-2019 at 01:11 PM.

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    Default Re: Original formula For Marine Glue

    I reheated the seams on my decks in January. Then lagged the deck planks in boat soup. I agree with you Jay that there is a huge advantage in being able to reheat if a seam becomes loose, ad-infinitum.

    IMG_20190403_115111_8.jpg

    IMG_20190331_170027_4.jpg

    IMG_20190329_123346_4.jpg

    It was the devils own goo to lay down in tight areas such as my covering boards though. It does not stay fluid for long, as it cools rapidly to solidify quickly. A job best done with 2 people... one to prepare on the heater, one to pay.

    IMG_20190330_120837_1CS.jpg

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    Default Re: Original formula For Marine Glue

    This set up...

    IMG_20190329_135003_7.jpg

    ....quickly became this God awful mess, because I was doing it on my own.

    IMG_20190329_204804_6.jpg

    For the full story of my demise, see here. The Jeffry's Glue sessions start on page 23.

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    Default Re: Original formula For Marine Glue

    Its the law of sticky stuff that even when coming from a tube like Sika-Flex, the crap still gets on everything and everywhere. Nice ladel, friend of mine used an old kettle, good for keeping the heat in, and did quite well at pouring into seams. Jefferies is good stuff.

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    Default Re: Original formula For Marine Glue

    Ive still got my pouring ladle. It's a thick cast one that retains the heat to keep the glue liquid. Preheating is advised.

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    Default Re: Original formula For Marine Glue

    Quote Originally Posted by artif View Post
    Preheating is advised.
    IMG_20190331_183744_6.jpg

    Hmmm.

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    Default Re: Original formula For Marine Glue

    Ooopps, not the handle

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    Default Re: Original formula For Marine Glue

    It is a bit messy to pour I admit but, the results are no leaks and peace of mind once the job is. done!
    Jay

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    Default Re: Original formula For Marine Glue

    Expandite (Fosroc) used to do a compound called Colpor. A two pack bitumous mixed in the 2.5 litre tin. You then poured it or gunned it into joints. I used to do petrol station forecourts and many other jobs with it. Good flexibility. Used thousands of tins of Thioflex as well. No mess and taped joints.

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    Default Re: Original formula For Marine Glue

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony Z View Post
    I know this is an old thread, but is seems like 12 mineral naptha might be an out of use term for crude oil rather than what we'd call naptha today. This would make sense if it was used interchangeablely with coal tar.
    It may be a very old typo(1883) and repeated by Dixon Kemp in 1897. I think that the original intent was:
    "This composition is said to be composed of 1 part India-rubber, 12 parts of mineral naphtha or coal tar heated gently, and 20 parts of shellac mixed with it."
    Annotation 2019-11-09 111845.jpg



    ANother iteration:
    http://www.thecheappages.com/kemp/dictM.html
    DIXON KEMP
    Manual of Yacht and Boat Sailing and Architecture
    (11th and final edition, 1913)
    Marine Glue.--
    This composition is said to be composed of 1 part indiarubber, 12 mineral naphtha or coal tar heated gently, and 20 parts of shellac, mixed with it.
    I tried to find "12 mineral naptha" and fond that naphtha used to be called naft
    https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics...ering/naphthas
    3.1 Naphtha


    Naphtha (often referred to as naft in the older literature) is a generic term applied to refined, partly refined, or an unrefined low-to-medium boiling petroleum distillate fraction. Naphtha resembles gasoline in terms of boiling range and carbon number, being a precursor to gasoline. In the strictest sense of the term, not less than 10% of the naphtha should distill below 175C (345F) and not less than 95% of the material should distill below 240C (465F) under standardized distillation conditions (ASTM D86). The main uses of petroleum naphtha fall into the general areas of (1) precursor to gasoline and other liquid fuels, (2) solvents (diluents) for paints, (3) dry-cleaning solvents, (4) solvents for cutback asphalts, (5) solvents in rubber industry, and (6) solvents for industrial extraction processes. Turpentine, the older and more conventional solvent for paints has now been almost completely replaced by the cheaper and more abundant petroleum naphtha.

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    Default Re: Original formula For Marine Glue

    I think the formula, may have called for Naptha because of its rapid and clean drying ability. This was the same fluid that was used for dry cleaning up until a few years ago. My grandmother called kerosine "coal tar" when I was a kid.
    Jay

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    Default Re: Original formula For Marine Glue

    Attachment 71872

    I was tortured. Why is it "Jeffery's No. 2 Marine Glue", instead of "Jeffery's Marine Glue"? This implies there was at least one other type, to wit, No.1.

    From the 1920s ad clipping above, there were a bunch of types. No. 1 Extra Quality, No. 2 First Quality, No. 3 Navy, No. 7 Soft; a "Waterproof Liquid" and a Special Canoe Marine Glue.

    What the ad also indicated was that there was a booklet you could get, entitled "Marine Glue - What to use and how to use it", specifically referencing the Jeffery's product line.

    After some poking around, I have managed to locate a copy of that booklet and it is now on order! I will be happy to share the content of that booklet with the forum, once received. Is there any interest?

    As to how to apply No. 2 at 190C on the Hollow Hawaiian Surfboard? Full stop. I do not think, at this moment, that is what Tom Blake did. It seems unlikely given that it would cool long before the deck could be applied. The booklet should provide some clarity. Right now, I expect he used the No. 7 Soft, which does not appear to require high heat.

    Brad

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    Default Re: Original formula For Marine Glue

    Why ask Kemp, when the exact formula is in Jeffery's patent!

    The patent enrollment date is October 15, 1842. Granted to one Alfred Jeffery, of Lloyd's Street, Pentonville.

    The patent states that he calls the formulation "Jeffery's Marine Glue".

    He begins with "caoutchouc", giving preference to East India caoutchouc, in the proportions of one pound of caoutchouc to four gallons of "naptha" [SIC, should be naphtha]. He cuts the caoutchouc into thin shreds before he uses it. Stir the mixture of caoutchouc and naphtha, occasionally, until the caoutchouc is dissolved so as to bring the mixture to the same thickness as "thick cream". He finds the mixture is sufficiently dissolved in 10 to 12 days. He then mixes, by proportion 1 part of the caoutchouc solution to 2 parts, by weight, of "shell lac" [SIC, should be shellac].

    This is then heated in a large vessel for the amalgamation of the materials, stirring occasionally. It is poured onto slabs to cool and then cut into pieces for use.

    -------------

    What can be inferred from this?

    1) The caoutchouc must be somewhat soldified. It is "cut into shreds". That couldn't happen if it was a liquid.
    2) The shellac must be in flake form, as the proportion is given by weight, not by liquid volume.

    ------------

    Caoutchouc is India or Natural Rubber. CAS 9006-04-6.

    ------------

    So where in the heck is the Bitumen? The MSDS for Jefferies No. 2 Marine Glue states the product is >60% bitumen.

    I can only infer that the patent recipe is for Jeffery's No. 1 Marine Glue. IE> the first one!

    I've encountered a Jeffery's price list that obviously predates the 1929 brochure, because the prices are much lower and it includes references to Marine Glues No. 4, No. 5 and No. 6; which are clearly missing from the 1929 catalog. When was this earlier brochure published? There are no numerical values which could be inferred as a date so your guess is as good as mine.
    Page8.jpg
    What I notice about this list is that No. 1 merely states "Marine Glue", while No. 2 states "Marine Glue Pitch", the same as No. 3 and No. 5: "Marine Glue Pitch". In other words, the inclusion of "pitch" is specified as part of the formulation, whereas No. 1 does not include "pitch".

    A quick check of "pitch" defines it to be tar, bitumen, asphalt.

    Therefore, Jeffery's No 2 Marine Glue contains pitch (aka bitumen), making it consistent with the MSDS.


    Brad

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    Default Re: Original formula For Marine Glue

    As a commercial product, there is no doubt reason to bulk it out with low cost solids and this is obviously where the bitumen comes in. India rubber and shellac flakes are the costly ingredients that make the difference from a basic tar/ bitumen and solvent mix. Even bitumen products of more recent times are bulked out with finely shredded waste or recycled plastic. Jeffry's basic formula probably has just enough shellac and rubber to effect viscosity and surface setting properties, with bitumen as a modifier in the other grades.

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    Default Re: Original formula For Marine Glue

    Brilliant investigating. Thanks

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    Default Re: Original formula For Marine Glue

    Quote Originally Posted by Lugalong View Post
    As a commercial product, there is no doubt reason to bulk it out with low cost solids
    The 1929 brochure specifically points out the superiority of the marine glue to just pitch. Apparently, deck seams were paid with pure pitch but, as Jeffery and Co. point out the pure pitch seams only last a bit while the marine glue'd seams last 4X longer.

    You are spot on about the shellac too! I priced out the materials in the patent recipe and the shellac comes to $1069.50, the one pound of India Rubber at $48.00 and the Naphtha at $92.

    Brad

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    Default Re: Original formula For Marine Glue

    You need to keep in mind that commercial names have changed in the last 100+ years. Caoutchouc, India rubber, etc. is now called natural latex rubber and the grade you are looking for is probably cup lump, pitch is crude oil, and the nearest you can come to it is heavy fuel oil or natural bitumen, coal tar is presently unobtanium. Naphtha changed meaning a lot, from crude oil to lighter distillates of it and can be assimilated to everything from basic gasoline to mineral spirits.
    A marine glue made with this ingredients relies in part on the vulcanised rubber (the sulfur in the crude oil vulcanises the latex) and in part on the sticky nature of crude oil, bitumen or tar.

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    Default Re: Original formula For Marine Glue

    Quote Originally Posted by Rumars View Post
    You need to keep in mind that commercial names have changed in the last 100+ years. Caoutchouc, India rubber, etc. is now called natural latex rubber and the grade you are looking for is probably cup lump, pitch is crude oil, and the nearest you can come to it is heavy fuel oil or natural bitumen, coal tar is presently unobtanium. Naphtha changed meaning a lot, from crude oil to lighter distillates of it and can be assimilated to everything from basic gasoline to mineral spirits.
    A marine glue made with this ingredients relies in part on the vulcanised rubber (the sulfur in the crude oil vulcanises the latex) and in part on the sticky nature of crude oil, bitumen or tar.

    Hello Rumars!

    Let me preface my remarks with the following: (1) during my Engineering career, I learned that I can be wrong, sometimes dreadfully so. When new data arrives that contradicts earlier assessments, I will change my assessment without rancor. (2) I know precious little about boatbuilding, even less so when it comes to historical practices. My interest in Jeffery’s has to do with the specification provided in the plans I am following, dated 1937, for a Hollow Hawaiian Surfboard. This board is a very small wooden boat and thus, you now know exactly why I am here. All that said, my goal is understanding, even at the expense of “being right”.

    Rumars, you raised the issue of vulcanization. If we examine the 1929 Jeffery's Brochure http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...to-Use-It-quot Post # 4, brochure page 3, it is clear that vulcanized rubber would be required to meet the criteria of figures 1 and 2. To meet such extremities of configuration, all while retaining longevity, the rubber should be or must be vulcanized. I have no issue with such an assessment.

    Yet there is a chronological issue with vulcanization with regards to Original Marine Glue. Jeffery’s patent is dated 1842 (and research indicates that it was offered to the Royal Navy well before that). Yet Goodyear did not patent vulcanization until 1844 in the US. The British patents regarding vulcanization are similarly dated but were disputed by Goodyear says the internet. Since it is unlikely that Jeffery had a time machine, the original marine glue could not depend on vulcanization. Jeffery does not describe any addition of sulfur (or other accelerators) in his patent, which we might think somewhat relevant, should vulcanization be a part of the particulars of patent.

    Your point regarding materials is very well founded. We are in agreement that names and description of materials change over time. Spar varnish 100 years ago is clearly not spar varnish today. Naphtha similarly changes definition over time.

    Let us review the formula from a simple chemistry standpoint. Jeffery takes natural rubber (CAS 9006-04-6) and wants to dissolve it. He selects a light hydrocarbon because light hydrocarbons are a known solvent for CAS 9006-04-6. The precise composition of what he calls naphtha is unknown. For the purposes of what he is doing, I’m not sure it is particularly important. Jeffery wants a solution of latex (natural) rubber and obtains it with some hydrocarbon because that is a solvent. So for the purposes of understanding the composition ratios, I will use the modern definition of naphtha (CAS 64742-88-7), with a specific gravity of 0.667. This permits us to assign a weight to the naphtha in his recipe. Jeffery states 4 gallons, which provides us with a weight for the naphtha = 22.25 pounds.

    The third material Jeffery specifies is shellac (CAS 9000-59-3). Shellac is NOT soluble in hydrocarbons. In order to create the amalgamation, the marine glue must be heated to at least 75 degrees C, the melting point of shellac. The solution of rubber is then stirred with the melted shellac and allowed to cool. Interestingly, naphtha has a boiling point anywhere from 30 degrees to 200 degrees C, depending upon grade. I, for one have no intention of heating and stirring 4 gallons of naphtha, no matter the specific grade, to 75 degrees C without some very serious PPE.

    Be that as it may, this permits us to assign the ratios of the original formulation, by weight, as defined by Jeffery

    1 Part Natural Latex
    22.25 Parts Naphtha
    46.5 Parts Shellac

    The recipe creates 69.75 pounds of Original Marine Glue, under the assumption that no light hydrocarbons are boiled off (hahahahaha, yeah sure).

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    The following bit of mental gymnastics appealed to me. I searched for these materials (referencing the CAS number) and obtained prices. Once complete, I find that the price for the original formula Marine Glue is $17.06/pound. I then examined the US price per pound for Jeffery’s No. 2 Marine Glue, $5.45/pound. Under the assumption that the base of No. 2 marine glue is the original recipe and we must add sufficient bitumen to obtain the same price per pound, then some algebra will show us that 181.97 pounds of asphalt are added to the original formula to achieve the same unit price. That is, take 69.75 pounds of original formula marine glue at $17.06/pound, add 181.97 pounds of bitumen (CAS 64742-93-4) at $1.00/pound, to obtain 251.72 pounds of something like No.2 Marine Glue, at a unit price of $5.45/pound.

    We then have
    0.4% Natural Rubber (CAS 9004-04-6)
    8.8% Naphtha (CAS 64742-88-7)
    18.5% Shellac (CAS 9000-59-3)
    72.3% Asphalt (CAS 64742-93-4)

    Remarkably, the MSDS for Jeffery’s No. 2 Marine Glue specifies >70% Bitumen (CAS 64742-93-4). It appears that rosin (CAS 8050-09-7) has been substituted for the shellac, as it is 40% the raw material cost. The MSDS for Jeffery's No. 2 Marine Glue states rosin (CAS 8050-09-7) is >1%. These values are in agreement with the algebraically determined numbers above. Rubber need not be disclosed, as it is less than 1% of the content and, in general, does not represent a hazard.

    The major issue with this analysis is that the percentage of naphtha algebraically determined is greater than the statutory 1% disclosure requirement and naphtha is not listed on the MSDS. Natural rubber is typically kept in solution these days with ammonia. At the algebraically determined values, ammonia should be on the MSDS. If it were me, I would use ammonia instead of naphtha, as it represents a lesser health hazard.

    The second issue with the analysis is that I used the unit price for shellac and not the unit price for rosin, which would result in a small but meaningful reduction in asphalt/bitumen.

    The modern formulation of Jeffery’s No. 2 Marine Glue is >>>NOT<<< my intention. It is 100% clear that material substitutions have been made since the 1842 patent and that in 180 years, Jeffery’s has adapted a thing or two or three as the science evolved.

    My intention IS to find the formulation of the material specified by Tom Blake in the 1930’s, no longer commercially available. More on that will be discussed on the “Progress on the Tom Blake Hollow Hawaiian Surfboard”

    Thanks Rumars, for prodding this conversation along!

    Brad
    Last edited by Tom Blake Surfboard; 11-15-2020 at 07:08 PM.
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    Default Re: Original formula For Marine Glue

    They did not know about vulcanisation back then, and did not understand what actually happened, but we know now. Crude oil (and coal tar also) contains sulfur and by heating and mixing part of the rubber got partially vulcanised. Nobody would heat modern naphta in a kettle like they did, it is just to dangerous, and modern naphta would dissolve rubber at ambient temperature anyway.
    Asphalt and bitumen are the modern substitute of that crude oil, you need to remember that when they invented this, crude oil was taken with a bucket from wells and used as a lubricant for carriage wheels. Depending on the source it can be anywhere from highly viscous (very thick honey, barely moving) to pretty runny (motoroil).
    By 1937 you can be sure that the "original" formula would have not been used anymore. Crude oil as a base would have been to expensive by then and they would have used asphalt/bitumen, either from a natural source or as a waste product from crude refining. Coal tar is another possibility, from all the gasification plants. Latex and shellac were used as filler and viscosity adjustment, rosin can do both things at once and is probably cheaper. Rubber would also have increased in value by then. It is possible that the formula got adjusted after the second world war to reflect the new economic realities, but I really doubt that the modern product behaves differently. Unless you find an actual example of surfboard and have the glue analyzed using modern Jeffrey's is the best you can do.

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    Default Re: Original formula For Marine Glue

    I would not assume that "pitch" in this application is asphalt based. To me it seems more likely to be wood based, i.e. "pine tar" which can be made from other wood than pine. A quick search indicates a " high temperature" coal tar, which perhaps was used for the lesser grades of "Jefferies" reccomended for paying larger deck seams
    Pitch derived from wood for a traditional marine sealant has been in constant use for centuries. (I can attest to deck seams payed with asphalt becoming a sticky mess on a hot day, definitely not "yacht" grade. It will make a mess of bleached and pipe clayed white cloth, not to mention cotton sails. I suspect the more expensive "yacht grade" of "Jefferies" was conconcocted to be stable at higher temperatures.
    https://maritime.org/conf/conf-kaye-tar.htm

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    Default Re: Original formula For Marine Glue

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoeyawl View Post
    I would not assume that "pitch" in this application is asphalt based. To me it seems more likely to be wood based, i.e. "pine tar" which can be made from other wood than pine. A quick search indicates a " high temperature" coal tar, which perhaps was used for the lesser grades of "Jefferies" reccomended for paying larger deck seams
    Pitch derived from wood for a traditional marine sealant has been in constant use for centuries. (I can attest to deck seams payed with asphalt becoming a sticky mess on a hot day, definitely not "yacht" grade. It will make a mess of bleached and pipe clayed white cloth, not to mention cotton sails. I suspect the more expensive "yacht grade" of "Jefferies" was conconcocted to be stable at higher temperatures.
    https://maritime.org/conf/conf-kaye-tar.htm
    The primary reason I used bitumen/asphalt in the post is because that is precisely what Jeffery & Co are using today, by the MSDS. (Although I think Davey & Co owns them now).

    You are likely correct! Pine Pitch would have been readily available 100 years ago. I would like to distinguish though, between pine tar and pine pitch.

    I'm using genuine Stockholm Pine Tar on my build (solventfreepaint.com). In no way shape or form would that not run out of the bottom of a seam in a layed deck, caulking or not. The viscosity is very low. Like cold maple syrup. Apply it to the top of the seam and those below best should seek shelter from the rain of tar!

    Pine Pitch is noted as having the liquids removed, so the viscosity must be much higher. I cannot find a genuine commercial outlet for this. Perhaps I could boil off the liquids from the tar to make the pitch.

    Brad
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    Patented by Tom Blake in 1932

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    Default Re: Original formula For Marine Glue

    Pine pitch... pitch black, in texture it is between toffee and taffy, for lack of a better description. I have some chunks of it around here somewhere and although "technically" not it is basically a solid. If you drop it or hit it with a hammer it will shatter into pieces. I have heated it and poured (or payed) it into voids in a bilge that would trap water, could not be limbered and would never drain. (When heated it smells like pine tar and works for that application very well). It does move over time if the craft is stored off it's lines. See pitch drop experiment: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pitch_drop_experiment

    I think I noted that one of the ingredients of the original Jefferies formulas was latex or gutta-percha among other things. Perhaps that made it stable and viable as an adhesive?
    It is fun to speculate on these old ways. A lot of knowledge has been lost.

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    Default Re: Original formula For Marine Glue

    I am familiar with that somewhat famous experiment but failed to think of it in this context. Thanks for that!

    Yes, one of the original ingredients was latex (natural rubber) as noted above. Its my understanding that it was included for elasticity, as the deck planks changed dimension due to moisture content and temperature, the gap between the planks changed; requiring a seam filler that would squeeze and stretch without fatigue. None of the other materials in the original formula would provide that elasticity.
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    Default Re: Original formula For Marine Glue

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Blake Surfboard View Post
    Perhaps I could boil off the liquids from the tar to make the pitch.

    Brad
    Don't try that at home. The volatile vapours will be highly flammable, you could get flashovers or even an explosion.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Original formula For Marine Glue

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    Don't try that at home. The volatile vapours will be highly flammable, you could get flashovers or even an explosion.
    Hahahaha! What could possibly go wrong!?

    Okay, point well taken. No pine tar boiling for me
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    Love this thread, really interesting discussion.
    I'm still convinced that the original ingredient "naptha" is in reference to crude oil (see the etemyology section of naptha's Wikipedia page). In several references posted above there is mention to the gental heating of the mixture, which I suspect yielded heavier petroleum distillates like asphalt and bitumen. This would also explain why the modern MSDS lists 60% bitumen, since our modern jargon includes a term for each range of petroleum distilate that they wouldn't have had the vocabulary for in the 19th century.
    I think we also have to admit that the glue (probably) can't be 60% naphtha/white gas (as we would call it today) because that would pose a pretty big fire risk, since when the glue is heated that would vaporize very readily. I also suspect it wouldn't be a solid brick of material if that where the case either.

    I'm hung up on this because I think this is really the crux of the issue. As mentioned pitch (from pine or petroleum) was often used to pay wooden decks, but it's melting point is low enough to become gummy on hot days. I suspect that the innovation was the addition of latex and resin (originally shellac, now apparently rosin) was to complement the already somewhat elastomeric properties of pitch.

    Sent from my ONEPLUS A6003 using Tapatalk
    16'5" Welsford Walkabout

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    Default Re: Original formula For Marine Glue

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony Z View Post
    In several references posted above there is mention to the gentle heating of the mixture, which I suspect yielded heavier petroleum distillates like asphalt and bitumen.
    Hi Anthony

    If you like the thread, you will love Alfred Jeffery's actual patent!

    Jeffery specifically states that the "naphtha" is to put the rubber into solution. Jeffery also states that he gently heats the shellac so as to be able to create an "amalgamation" or blend of the shellac/dissolved rubber. This directly out of the patent, not my interpretation.

    Why heated? My interpretation: Shellac flake is a solid until about 75C AND petroleum distillates are not a solvent for shellac. It must be melted to mix in with the rubber.

    You are spot on about the India Rubber. It was introduced to Europe in the late 1700's. McIntosh is credited with using it in 1818. Alfred Jeffery's patent is dated 1842, but his use of rubber predates that by a minimum of 2 years. Call it 1840. So it really was a novel addition to marine seams!! Yet to mix it with the shellac, it had to be dissolved. The exact distillate to cause that dissolution is naturally ill defined, given the industrial practices vis chemistry at the time. Was it a heavier distillate? Sure, it could be!

    All of the above in this missive is discussion revolving around (what I think to be) Jeffery's No. 1 Marine Glue.

    Brad

    I too, find this fascinating. If wooden boats are your thing, and most here are, then knowing what they did at the very apex of wooden boat building becomes important to understanding materials and practices for today.

    Brad
    Building the July 1937 Popular Mechanics
    Hollow Hawaiian Surfboard
    Patented by Tom Blake in 1932

    www.instagram.com/tomblakesurfboard

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    Brad, do you have a link to the patent text? My google skills have failed me.

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    Default Re: Original formula For Marine Glue

    Building the July 1937 Popular Mechanics
    Hollow Hawaiian Surfboard
    Patented by Tom Blake in 1932

    www.instagram.com/tomblakesurfboard

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    Default Re: Original formula For Marine Glue

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Blake Surfboard View Post
    Attachment 71872

    I was tortured. Why is it "Jeffery's No. 2 Marine Glue", instead of "Jeffery's Marine Glue"? This implies there was at least one other type, to wit, No.1.

    From the 1920s ad clipping above, there were a bunch of types. No. 1 Extra Quality, No. 2 First Quality, No. 3 Navy, No. 7 Soft; a "Waterproof Liquid" and a Special Canoe Marine Glue.

    What the ad also indicated was that there was a booklet you could get, entitled "Marine Glue - What to use and how to use it", specifically referencing the Jeffery's product line.

    After some poking around, I have managed to locate a copy of that booklet and it is now on order! I will be happy to share the content of that booklet with the forum, once received. Is there any interest?

    As to how to apply No. 2 at 190C on the Hollow Hawaiian Surfboard? Full stop. I do not think, at this moment, that is what Tom Blake did. It seems unlikely given that it would cool long before the deck could be applied. The booklet should provide some clarity. Right now, I expect he used the No. 7 Soft, which does not appear to require high heat.

    Brad
    #1 Jefferys was for yachts that sail in hot climates and was another 60% more expensive than #2. I used #2 a few years ago in Key West, Florida and the tackiness of the Jefferys was a problem. There's a chandlery in England that makes their own and is supposed to be better in hot climates as far as tackiness goes.
    Jefferys Canoe Glue was for patching small holes in canvas canoes. The directions were " ...only a candle is needed for heating. Dig out (of the can) a piece of glue as large as required. Mould it in the hands after greasing them with a candle. Melt the face of the glue and apply to the hole."
    Rob

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