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Thread: You Will Make A Difference

  1. #1
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    Default You Will Make A Difference

    You can't avoid it. It's up to you how you will impact the world, and what sort of difference you'll make. If you make conscious choices about it... you're more liable to reach the end of your life... and look back with satisfaction.


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    Default Re: You Will Make A Difference

    Hmm. Pasta or rice tonight..?

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    Default Re: You Will Make A Difference



    Peace,
    Robert

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    Default Re: You Will Make A Difference

    The lyrics --

    Music: Geddy Lee and Alex Lifeson
    Lyrics: Neil Peart

    There are those who think that life
    Has nothing left to chance
    With a host of holy horrors
    To direct our aimless dance

    A planet of playthings
    We dance on the strings
    Of powers we cannot perceive
    “The stars aren’t aligned –
    Or the gods are malign”
    Blame is better to give than receive
    You can choose a ready guide
    In some celestial voice
    If you choose not to decide
    You still have made a choice
    You can choose from phantom fears
    And kindness that can kill
    I will choose a path that’s clear
    I will choose free will.
    There are those who think that
    They were dealt a losing hand
    The cards were stacked against them
    They weren’t born in Lotus-Land.

    All pre-ordained
    A prisoner in chains
    A victim of venomous fate
    Kicked in the face
    You can’t pray for a place
    In Heaven’s unearthly estate
    Each of us
    A cell of awareness
    Imperfect and incomplete
    Genetic blends
    With uncertain ends
    On a fortune hunt
    That’s far too fleet…

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    Default Re: You Will Make A Difference

    Oh, yes, David! I was not in any way teasing. I have long loved that song.

    Peace,
    Robert

    This one too...

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    Default Re: You Will Make A Difference

    Caution, F bombs.


  7. #7
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    Default Re: You Will Make A Difference

    Quote Originally Posted by lupussonic View Post
    Caution, F bombs.
    Are you uncomfortable with the topic?

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    Default Re: You Will Make A Difference


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    Default Re: You Will Make A Difference

    Serve Somebody

    I change the chorus a bit when I sing it... as I'm not all that churchy --


    'It may be some Fascist, or the memory of RFK

    But you're gonna have to serve somebody...'


    'It might be some racist, or the ghost of MLK

    But you're gonna have to serve somebody...'


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    Default Re: You Will Make A Difference

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    Are you uncomfortable with the topic?
    No, I have no problem with over generalised kinder-garden philosophy at all.

    Would you like to have a discussion about free will, or destiny?

    Personally I like Salman Rushdie's writing on the subject, from Midnights Children, which I read aged 15.

    "I am the sum total of everything that went before me, of all I have been seen done, of everything done-to-me. I am everyone everything whose being-in-the-world affected was affected by mine. I am anything that happens after I'm gone which would not have happened if I had not come.....to understand me, you will have to swallow a whole world.."



  11. #11
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    Default Re: You Will Make A Difference

    Quote Originally Posted by lupussonic View Post
    No, I have no problem with over generalised kinder-garden philosophy at all.

    Would you like to have a discussion about free will, or destiny?

    Personally I like Salman Rushdie's writing on the subject, from Midnights Children, which I read aged 15.

    "I am the sum total of everything that went before me, of all I have been seen done, of everything done-to-me. I am everyone everything whose being-in-the-world affected was affected by mine. I am anything that happens after I'm gone which would not have happened if I had not come.....to understand me, you will have to swallow a whole world.."
    If you view Jane Goodall as a 'kindergarten' level thinker... this should be interesting.

    So... you take issue with her notion that we all impact the world every day? Or my addendum that we should recognize that fact and act upon it intentionally?

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    Default Re: You Will Make A Difference

    I don't refute or take issue with any of that David. It's patently obvious.

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    Default Re: You Will Make A Difference

    Quote Originally Posted by amish rob View Post


    Peace,
    Robert
    Love that. Excellent choice, Emperor Rob. They've put out some of the most amazing and interesting music throughout their career.

    "Time Stand Still" is one that has some great meaning for me.
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
    -William A. Ward



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    Default Re: You Will Make A Difference

    30,000 years of human history says that hedonism is philosophically correct. A little short sightedness therefore could be forgiven.

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    Default Re: You Will Make A Difference

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    If you view Jane Goodall as a 'kindergarten' level thinker... this should be interesting.

    So... you take issue with her notion that we all impact the world every day? Or my addendum that we should recognize that fact and act upon it intentionally?
    Dr. Goodall is definitely not a "'kindergarten' level thinker".

    Do we all impact the world every day? Well, maybe not. Some days, yeah, others not so much.

    I've done some things in my past which I know have impacted the wider world - either by the number of people who experienced my work, or through the actions of a small number of people who have used what I've made in very important situations. Right now, I'm working on some stuff that might save the world - literally. I'm only a part of the team that is doing this, but the ramifications of what we're doing could be earthshaking and might mold the conversation on the topic that we're dealing with for years to come. Some days it's hard to be the one wearing the "super-suit". Both the responsibility and the stress can be awesome.
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
    -William A. Ward



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    Default Re: You Will Make A Difference

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoez View Post
    Dr. Goodall is definitely not a "'kindergarten' level thinker".

    Do we all impact the world every day? Well, maybe not. Some days, yeah, others not so much.

    I've done some things in my past which I know have impacted the wider world - either by the number of people who experienced my work, or through the actions of a small number of people who have used what I've made in very important situations. Right now, I'm working on some stuff that might save the world - literally. I'm only a part of the team that is doing this, but the ramifications of what we're doing could be earthshaking and might mold the conversation on the topic that we're dealing with for years to come. Some days it's hard to be the one wearing the "super-suit". Both the responsibility and the stress can be awesome.
    Well... I wish you the very best of luck with your work.

    But... you can't say 'maybe not'. Lupussonic has already pronounced Ms. Goodall's aphorism (and my addition) 'patently obvious'. Really no room for discussion or nuance, eh? <G>

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    Default Re: You Will Make A Difference

    Quote Originally Posted by lupussonic View Post
    I don't refute or take issue with any of that David. It's patently obvious.
    So why the seeming attempts at deflection?

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    Default Re: You Will Make A Difference

    Do you believe you have free will David?

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    Default Re: You Will Make A Difference

    Quote Originally Posted by lupussonic View Post
    Do you believe you have free will David?
    Do you believe that is the primary topic of this thread? I'm not so sure, but you could have a relevant point. Why would you say that?

    Oh, and yes, I do (with some important caveats). Did you really need to ask, or were you just making double-danged-sure?

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    Default Re: You Will Make A Difference

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    Well... I wish you the very best of luck with your work.
    Thanks. You should - it will matter to us all whether we want to "believe" or not. Anywho - I'm just a cog in the whole machine on this one.

    Quote Originally Posted by McMike View Post
    Man I wish I applied myself in school when I was a kid. . . I'd much rather be doing whatever it is you're doing rather than building furniture. We need to have a beer sometime if you're up for it.
    In some respects, it is never too late.

    I'm sure your work has had a more lasting impact on people's lives than some of my work. Relish that thought. People see your work every day in their lives.

    Yeah. I could go for some restorative beverages, as Greg Rössel says. Perhaps we could drag Figgy out, too.
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
    -William A. Ward



  21. #21
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    Default Re: You Will Make A Difference

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    Why would you say that?
    Because this thread is about choice, and impact on the world, is it not?

    You and I are not unique and individual snowflakes. We are the product or our history before us, as quoted by Rushdie ^^. We are many things also, for example the things that we will or have changed, that would not have changed if we had not come. But anyway...

    You and I and were formed thousands of years ago. We arrived here at this point in time because of small nuanced choices made by our forebears stretching back to the beginning, arguably of life itself, although for the sake of an easy discussion we could just say around 30,000 years when early hominids were around. To go there, to do this, to have experiences that changed the world subtly, in microcosmic ways that ultimately led to you and I being here on this forum having this discussion. This point that I am making is not really a debatable topic, it is solid fact. You were born into a set of circumstances; geography, time, etc, that were not choices made by you. So already, you had no free will when or where or to whom you were born.

    So now that you are an adult, do you think you have free will?

    Let's discuss what that term might mean to start with.

    I think it might be useful to start by suggesting that we are bound by the laws of physics...a good starting point. You nor I can flap our wings and fly around the lily pads as a dragonfly might, or dematerialise and emerge in a distant part of the universe whenever we feel like it. So there's that.

    If we can accept that, we might also then accept that we must swim through the time and cultures that we live in, including the cultural and legal 'laws' that may pertain to us. You can of course break those laws, as long as you are prepared to suffer the consequences. Some do, and they break those laws because they can, and society either shuns them or punishes them, because it can. So, further constraints there too.

    One can of course move in the middle, for example, live unconventional, solitary, law breaking lives in private, should one so wish, as long as no other person, or any other part of the world is impacted aversley. Most people however find the ramifications of that kind of life tiresome after a while, and so return having got those experiments out of their system to a more conventional type of living, because, specialising ones skills and bartering them for currency, having friends, gaining new experiences etc is the way most human beings are wired.

    Quite constrictive in terms of free will though isn't it?

    What is this free will you believe in, and are your caveats as above? If not, what are they? The free will to do what exactly? Because a person born into impoverished circumstances, whether of time or geography would say they have none; they are slaves to their misfortune, so any notion of free will must be subjective only to the fortunate, not a global objective idea that exists for everyone.

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    Default Re: You Will Make A Difference

    lupu - I think we agree. Free Will is not the same as omnipotence, and functions within the conditions and constraints each individual finds themselves in.

    I'm not sure how you see that impacting the points made in the OP...

  23. #23
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    Default Re: You Will Make A Difference

    Yep.

    We are all one, too.

    Peace,
    Me, You? Hahahahaha

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    Default Re: You Will Make A Difference

    So, what is the OP trying to tell us? Be nice because it's nice to be nice? How is that any different from the Golden Rule? Or any other teaching that most children get at an early age?

    I'm trying to grasp the depth here...

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    Default Re: You Will Make A Difference

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    You can't avoid it. It's up to you how you will impact the world, and what sort of difference you'll make. If you make conscious choices about it... you're more liable to reach the end of your life... and look back with satisfaction.

    .

    Heavy dude, course most every lib here loved the philosophy of a form member telling me to go ...... myself, o well one small change at a time in a lib world makes for coexisting.

  26. #26
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    Default Re: You Will Make A Difference

    Please stop that lib talk. You are boring everyone.

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    Default Re: You Will Make A Difference

    The case for free will is, at best, vastly overstated... and it may be utterly unsupportable.

    This has interesting implications.

    What are you doing about it?




  28. #28
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    Default Re: You Will Make A Difference

    Quote Originally Posted by lupussonic View Post
    So, what is the OP trying to tell us? Be nice because it's nice to be nice? How is that any different from the Golden Rule? Or any other teaching that most children get at an early age?

    I'm trying to grasp the depth here...
    'Be nice'? No, not precisely, I'd think.

    The way I read her words - they are suggesting that we all wake up to the notion that every individual, every day, has an impact on the world. Maybe in ways we don't notice. Maybe in ways we don't intend. Maybe in ways we'd regret if we gave it some thought. Maybe in ways that would delight us if we considered them. Of course, we don't think about such issues a ton. But she's urging us all to think about it more.

    And my words are intended to urge people in the same direction... by actively considering what those impacts might be, and making deliberate choices about them. Not because we're perfect - or should be - but because we can all improve. [yes... EVEN me <G>]

    But perhaps such thoughts are already so well-integrated within your psyche that it's second nature to do so... and this thread is not useful for you. Or not... that's for you to decide. Maybe it's way the other way. Maybe you are far from being ready to address such issues... and therefore this thread is not useful to you. That's for you to consider.

  29. #29
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    Default Re: You Will Make A Difference

    Once when I was ten, I shot a small yellow frog in the back with a slingshot at 20 yards, a hell of a shot, but afterwards I was remorseful for the frog, ashamed of my shortsightedness, and I realised I had changed the universe forever.

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    Default Re: You Will Make A Difference

    Quote Originally Posted by lupussonic View Post
    Once when I was ten, I shot a small yellow frog in the back with a slingshot at 20 yards, a hell of a shot, but afterwards I was remorseful for the frog, ashamed of my shortsightedness, and I realised I had changed the universe forever.
    30 posts in - and you still seem to be having trouble expressing your thoughts clearly, concisely, and forthrightly. Maybe you should stop? Or try harder?

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    Default Re: You Will Make A Difference

    Why are you seemingly incapable of connecting the dots David?

    Do you seriously not see the connection between the OP and my anecdote?

    Forget it, I'm done here.

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    Default Re: You Will Make A Difference

    Is it just me, or is mr g being a stinker?
    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

  33. #33
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    Default Re: You Will Make A Difference

    Quote Originally Posted by lupussonic View Post
    Why are you seemingly incapable of connecting the dots David?

    Do you seriously not see the connection between the OP and my anecdote?

    Forget it, I'm done here.
    Quote Originally Posted by George Jung View Post
    Is it just me, or is mr g being a stinker?
    There's many will gladly tell you... I'm thick as a brick at times.

    lupu - if you were making a relevant point... it eludes me. If you were doing so earnestly, honestly, and on-point... my sincerest apologies for suggesting otherwise.

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    Default Re: You Will Make A Difference

    Quote Originally Posted by George Jung View Post
    Is it just me, or is mr g being a stinker?
    Oh come now... THAT would be entirely unheard of... no? <sigh>

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    Default Re: You Will Make A Difference

    Quote Originally Posted by lupussonic View Post
    Please stop that lib talk. You are boring everyone.
    Yep, pasta w/puttanesca sauce with some zucchini parm on the side. garden is loaded.

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