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Thread: Losing friends in divisive times.

  1. #211
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    Default Re: Losing friends in divisive times.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Orca View Post
    My apologies, I hadn't realized one of your parents had used that ludicrous bullpup affair for hunting.

    If you can find insult in anything else I've said, you're trying a wee bit too hard.
    Your attitude could use adjustment. But I doubt very much that you are sufficiently introspective to achieve that.

  2. #212
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    Default Re: Losing friends in divisive times.

    Quote Originally Posted by BrianW View Post
    You do realize that under the ban rules, you could still buy a brand new an AR15 with detachable magazines (able to use high capacity magazines.) Then of course, every AR15 prior to the ban was grandfathered and legal to own.

    So despite the studies, which I'm sure are statistically accurate, there was nothing physically different on the ban era rifles that would slow down a mass shooter compared to pre-ban or post-ban rifles.
    Sales of assault rifles were booming as the ban approached, as well. One of my employees bought hers during that period. So, to what do we attribute the period when there were few mass killings? Is it possible that mass killing shooters prefer the convenience of going into a gun dealer and buying new?

  3. #213
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    Default Re: Losing friends in divisive times.

    Quote Originally Posted by johnw View Post
    So, to what do we attribute the period when there were few mass killings? Is it possible that mass killing shooters prefer the convenience of going into a gun dealer and buying new?
    As I mentioned, during the ban period said masskillershooter could still walk into a gun shop and buy an AR15 that accepted detachable magazines. As long as it didn't have a flash suppressor, bayonet lug, folding/telescoping stock, or grenade launcher. That list is a reminder of just how stupid our political leaders can be.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federa...lt_Weapons_Ban

    Under the Assault Weapons Ban of 1994, the definition of "semiautomatic weapon" included specific semi-automatic firearm models by name, and other semi-automatic firearms that possessed two or more from a set certain features:[13]


    Semi-automatic rifles able to accept detachable magazines and two or more of the following:

    Semi-automatic pistols with detachable magazines and two or more of the following:
    • Magazine that attaches outside the pistol grip
    • Threaded barrel to attach barrel extender, flash suppressor, handgrip, or suppressor
    • Barrel shroud safety feature that prevents burns to the operator
    • Unloaded weight of 50 oz (1.4 kg) or more
    • A semi-automatic version of a fully automatic firearm.

    Semi-automatic shotguns with two or more of the following:
    • Folding or telescoping stock
    • Pistol grip
    • Detachable magazine.
    "Simple minds discuss people, Average minds discuss things, and Great minds discuss ideas".

  4. #214
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    Default Re: Losing friends in divisive times.

    You forgot to include the ten round limit on magazine capacity.
    Skip

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  5. #215
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    Default Re: Losing friends in divisive times.

    Quote Originally Posted by BrianW View Post
    As I mentioned, during the ban period said masskillershooter could still walk into a gun shop and buy an AR15 that accepted detachable magazines. As long as it didn't have a flash suppressor, bayonet lug, folding/telescoping stock, or grenade launcher. That list is a reminder of just how stupid our political leaders can be.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federa...lt_Weapons_Ban
    Our new rules outlaw all of that, pretty much anything that departs from bolt or pump action, 5 round magazine, hunting rifles or single shot target rifles are out.
    The vast majority of our population strongly support that.

    John Welsford
    An expert is but a beginner with experience.

  6. #216
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    Default Re: Losing friends in divisive times.

    Quote Originally Posted by johnw View Post
    Sales of assault rifles were booming as the ban approached, as well. One of my employees bought hers during that period. So, to what do we attribute the period when there were few mass killings? Is it possible that mass killing shooters prefer the convenience of going into a gun dealer and buying new?
    That would suggest that in at least some cases the decision to become a "mass shooter" is almost an impulse thing, so they, once they've made their mind up, then have to go out and get the wherewithal to do the job.

    John Welsford
    An expert is but a beginner with experience.

  7. #217
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    Default Re: Losing friends in divisive times.

    Quote Originally Posted by Decourcy View Post
    Your attitude could use adjustment. But I doubt very much that you are sufficiently introspective to achieve that.

    You are out of your league.

  8. #218
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    Default Re: Losing friends in divisive times.

    Quote Originally Posted by john welsford View Post
    Our new rules outlaw all of that, pretty much anything that departs from bolt or pump action, 5 round magazine, hunting rifles or single shot target rifles are out.
    The vast majority of our population strongly support that.

    John Welsford
    Makes all the sense in the world.

  9. #219
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    Default Re: Losing friends in divisive times.

    Quote Originally Posted by john welsford View Post
    That would suggest that in at least some cases the decision to become a "mass shooter" is almost an impulse thing, so they, once they've made their mind up, then have to go out and get the wherewithal to do the job.

    John Welsford
    I wonder if it's because so many are loners, not likely to join a gun club or somewhere where another member may be looking to sell a used one, so maybe a ban would help.

    The 1994 ban was a joke though, resulting in the manufacture of post-ban AR-15's, just as capable of being used for mass murder without the banned items, and large capacity magazines and drums were still available.

    I'm thinking now maybe a ban on magazines for rifles and pistols with over say 10 round capacity, with a buyback and prison sentence for possession afterwards might help.

    Nothing is going to fix the problem right away, but that doesn't mean we should do nothing.

  10. #220
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    Default Re: Losing friends in divisive times.

    Quote Originally Posted by BrianW View Post
    As I mentioned, during the ban period said masskillershooter could still walk into a gun shop and buy an AR15 that accepted detachable magazines. As long as it didn't have a flash suppressor, bayonet lug, folding/telescoping stock, or grenade launcher. That list is a reminder of just how stupid our political leaders can be.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federa...lt_Weapons_Ban
    Having been part of the process a few times... it's not that they are necessarily dumb. It's that no one legislator knows everything about everything. So they rely on experts. And smart young staffers to do flash-research and assemble the info coming in from all the sources. Some experts volunteer information... but a legislator has to be tapped into a network of experts. If you don't have an expert on a topic - one falls back on 'paid experts' from the industries involved. AKA lobbyists.

    Sometimes they manage to assemble all the correct information, make the right conclusions, and the right decision won't offend the party elders or large donors too bad... so they vote that way. Brilliant!!

    But not always. And such a failure involves a lot more than 'stupid political leaders'.
    Last edited by David G; 08-09-2019 at 10:27 AM.
    David G
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  11. #221
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    Default Re: Losing friends in divisive times.

    I have advocated a fix that respects the Second Amendment ( as much as I think it is entirely anachronistic and should go away ) and basically solves the problem:

    Other than the military and law enforcement, any firearm must be single shot only. Period.

    O, the ammosexuals wouldn't get their orgasms going, poor babies, but at least we'd have a nation of sharpshooters.
    Gerard>
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  12. #222
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    Default Re: Losing friends in divisive times.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gerarddm View Post
    I have advocated a fix that respects the Second Amendment ( as much as I think it is entirely anachronistic and should go away ) and basically solves the problem:

    Other than the military and law enforcement, any firearm must be single shot only. Period.

    O, the ammosexuals wouldn't get their orgasms going, poor babies, but at least we'd have a nation of sharpshooters.
    Sorry, no. Ain't going hunting with a single-shot rifle.
    David G
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    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  13. #223
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    Default Re: Losing friends in divisive times.

    Quote Originally Posted by LeeG View Post
    You are out of your league.
    Perhaps. But I'm waiting for my opinion towards FO to be demonstrated incorrect. The next post should be a good indicator.

  14. #224
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    Default Re: Losing friends in divisive times.

    Let's cut to the chase here with libs. Most all gun owners are law abiding citizens of which s majority lean Republican , the more laws made the more chances one can be guilty of a felony and cannot vote, as a 2 fer libs can link bad apples to good citizens..

    The people that endorse abortion have no moral authority on anything..

    I have a trump sign front and back on my yard , dont wanna come here turn around.

    Dont like it here, go out and win a few elections like Obama said.

  15. #225
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    Default Re: Losing friends in divisive times.

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    Sorry, no. Ain't going hunting with a single-shot rifle.
    Hell, militias were armed with single shot rifles!
    I guess it depends on what you are hunting.

  16. #226
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    Default Re: Losing friends in divisive times.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Orca View Post
    My apologies, I hadn't realized one of your parents had used that ludicrous bullpup affair for hunting.

    If you can find insult in anything else I've said, you're trying a wee bit too hard.
    Hey! He was referring to his Model '94 - that was given to him by his dad on his 16th birthday - not the other one. Reread the post - his dad used his own '94 for hunting.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  17. #227
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    Default Re: Losing friends in divisive times.

    Quote Originally Posted by LeeG View Post
    You are out of your league.
    Sorry Lee - but this is the kind of "piling on" I see around here. FO got it completely wrong & then you added to that.

    Let's play fair & nice, OK?

    Here's what FO replied to & got wrong (bold mine):

    Meh yourself. My '94 was given to me on my 16th birthday by my father, who hunted with and fed both his parental family and his wife and kids with his own '94 for many years. This was not choice in the early years, but necessity. It was my first deer rifle, and still my most successful. Bolts have their place, but not for me where I hunt in the bush here. I have a variety of bolts I use elsewhere.
    A 94' was the only gun my father knew until I bought him a bolt with a scope a number of years back.
    I like '99's as well, but I don't insult your choices, or those of your parents. I would ask the same of you.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  18. #228
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    Default Re: Losing friends in divisive times.

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    Sorry, no. Ain't going hunting with a single-shot rifle.
    You could carry a spear for back up.

  19. #229
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    Default Re: Losing friends in divisive times.

    Quote Originally Posted by SKIP KILPATRICK View Post
    You forgot to include the ten round limit on magazine capacity.
    How many tens of thousands of 20 and 30 round magazines were still available for those few years?

    The Act also prohibited the manufacture of "large capacity ammunition feeding devices" (LCAFDs) except for sale to government, law enforcement or military, though magazines made before the effective date ("pre-ban" magazines) were legal to possess & transfer.
    "Simple minds discuss people, Average minds discuss things, and Great minds discuss ideas".

  20. #230
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    Default Re: Losing friends in divisive times.

    Quote Originally Posted by BrianW View Post
    How many tens of thousands of 20 and 30 round magazines were still available for those few years?
    Out of curiosity, were the post ban magazines manufactured as 10 round (as some of our handgun magazines are), or was existing design pinned to 10 legal? And if new and pinned was legal and old higher was legal, what would stop unpinning and claiming old?

  21. #231
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    Default Re: Losing friends in divisive times.

    Quote Originally Posted by Decourcy View Post
    Out of curiosity, were the post ban magazines manufactured as 10 round (as some of our handgun magazines are), or was existing design pinned to 10 legal? And if new and pinned was legal and old higher was legal, what would stop unpinning and claiming old?
    I honestly don't know.
    "Simple minds discuss people, Average minds discuss things, and Great minds discuss ideas".

  22. #232
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    Default Re: Losing friends in divisive times.

    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post
    Hey! He was referring to his Model '94 - that was given to him by his dad on his 16th birthday - not the other one. Reread the post - his dad used his own '94 for hunting.
    I'm well aware of that. He also seems to think that my "meh" opinion of the 94 is some sort of insult, which is a nose-stretcher of epic proportions. He's welcome to his opinion, but that doesn't mean I can't have my own.

    I would say something snarky about introspection, but I'm, you know, above that sort of thing.

    What are you doing about it?




  23. #233
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    Default Re: Losing friends in divisive times.

    Quote Originally Posted by Decourcy View Post
    Out of curiosity, were the post ban magazines manufactured as 10 round (as some of our handgun magazines are), or was existing design pinned to 10 legal? And if new and pinned was legal and old higher was legal, what would stop unpinning and claiming old?
    All of the polymer magazines I have owned have a date of manufacture stamped in to them in a way that isn't easily modifiable.

  24. #234
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    Default Re: Losing friends in divisive times.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Orca View Post
    I'm well aware of that. He also seems to think that my "meh" opinion of the 94 is some sort of insult, which is a nose-stretcher of epic proportions. He's welcome to his opinion, but that doesn't mean I can't have my own.

    I would say something snarky about introspection, but I'm, you know, above that sort of thing.
    I was going to stay out of this, but I just can't.
    Your "meh" was not an insult to the '94 or to me, but was an insult to my father, who chose it for me as the best that he knew and could afford.
    There was no way for you to know that back story, but beginning your post without the "meh" and simply stating your preference for the savage would have avoided any potential pitfall.
    That, it seems, requires a level of introspection which you lack.
    You posted with the intention of getting a jab in.
    If you wish to take a jab at me, I couldn't care less.
    But my father is out of bounds.

  25. #235
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    Default Re: Losing friends in divisive times.

    Quote Originally Posted by SeanM26 View Post
    All of the polymer magazines I have owned have a date of manufacture stamped in to them in a way that isn't easily modifiable.
    Truthfully, I've never looked. Metal as well?

  26. #236
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    Default Re: Losing friends in divisive times.

    Quote Originally Posted by Decourcy View Post
    Truthfully, I've never looked. Metal as well?
    My metal ones had no date stamp, but also no rivet hole drilled in to them.

    Edit: not all post-ban mags used the rivet method. Some had an elongated follower, so there would be nothing to indicate when it was manufactured.

  27. #237
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    Default Re: Losing friends in divisive times.

    It's almost as if this thread has drifted into an impromptu memorial to PA!

    Man he would have been all over this puppy, like stink on a pig.
    "Unrepentant Reprobate"
    Lew Barrett



  28. #238
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    Default Re: Losing friends in divisive times.

    Hey, if your pigs stink then you either need to have a vrt check them out or move their pen to some clean dirt.

  29. #239
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    Default Re: Losing friends in divisive times.

    Quote Originally Posted by Decourcy View Post
    I was going to stay out of this, but I just can't.
    Oh, dude. That's kind of funny, given that this is all about your determination to read insult where it was neither intended nor implied.

    Quote Originally Posted by Decourcy View Post
    Your "meh" (...) was an insult to my father
    That is an utterly ludicrous claim. My "meh" was nothing more nor less than an offhand expression of indifference to the purported charms of the Model 94. You like the 94? Great, shoot it until the cows come home, and then shoot the cows.

    Quote Originally Posted by Decourcy View Post
    You posted with the intention of getting a jab in.
    In fact, no jab was intended or deliberately implied, your determination to impute one notwithstanding. My jabs are reserved for dumb ideas, like the idea that a bullpup "assault rifle" in, what is it, .223? would be good for hunting. If you're capable of mentally and emotionally transmogrifying lighthearted banter about the relative charms of various lever-action hunting rifles into some kind of mortifying insult to your great and noble sire, a treatment more effective than mere introspection may be indicated. As for your father, I'm happy to leave him be, other than to observe that he has my sympathies.

    What are you doing about it?




  30. #240
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    Default Re: Losing friends in divisive times.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Orca View Post
    Oh, dude. That's kind of funny, given that this is all about your determination to read insult where it was neither intended nor implied.



    That is an utterly ludicrous claim. My "meh" was nothing more nor less than an offhand expression of indifference to the purported charms of the Model 94. You like the 94? Great, shoot it until the cows come home, and then shoot the cows.



    In fact, no jab was intended or deliberately implied, your determination to impute one notwithstanding. My jabs are reserved for dumb ideas, like the idea that a bullpup "assault rifle" in, what is it, .223? would be good for hunting. If you're capable of mentally and emotionally transmogrifying lighthearted banter about the relative charms of various lever-action hunting rifles into some kind of mortifying insult to your great and noble sire, a treatment more effective than mere introspection may be indicated. As for your father, I'm happy to leave him be, other than to observe that he has my sympathies.

    When you walk into a room after buying a Ford, and start a conversation with GMC being "meh", that is a loaded statement. There is a risk with any "scattergun insult" which you see to not be aware of. Your attempts to deflect from the fact that knowingly, or more likely after interacting with you, unknowingly, you intended to insult rather than simply state a preference, is more ludicrous.
    This post is an excellent example of foot in mouth as you double down.

  31. #241
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    Default Re: Losing friends in divisive times.

    Looks an awful lot like a ham-handed attempt to put FO on the defensive. Understandable - you've nothing else. Common tactic with *some*.
    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

  32. #242
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    Default Re: Losing friends in divisive times.

    Quote Originally Posted by George Jung View Post
    Looks an awful lot like a ham-handed attempt to put FO on the defensive. Understandable - you've nothing else. Common tactic with *some*.
    Or perhaps it simply started with a simple back story explanation as to why I found the "meh" offensive. A moment spent reflecting on another's point of view when receiving a comment would have ended differently.

  33. #243
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    Default Re: Losing friends in divisive times.

    The only thing I asked my brother from my dad's estate was his 32 special model 94 1949 or so, he was a hunting guide in Maine, he went up every year for a month, the barrel is wore out..

    I wanted it for his grandson..

    Dad won a bamboo fly rod in 1940 and he gave that to my son..

    My brother got the other fly rods and guns, he got the flag from the funeral but he needed it the most..
    Nice of my brother to send me the Winchester..

    My son guided in new Mexico but it would not be very useful there or here in eastern Oregon for hunting.

  34. #244
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    Default Re: Losing friends in divisive times.

    Quote Originally Posted by Decourcy View Post
    I was going to stay out of this, but I just can't.
    Your "meh" was not an insult to the '94 or to me, but was an insult to my father, who chose it for me as the best that he knew and could afford.
    There was no way for you to know that back story, but beginning your post without the "meh" and simply stating your preference for the savage would have avoided any potential pitfall.
    That, it seems, requires a level of introspection which you lack.
    You posted with the intention of getting a jab in.
    If you wish to take a jab at me, I couldn't care less.
    But my father is out of bounds.

    D, i don't think the 'meh' was meant to be insulting. i "meh' stuff all the time. i type it in there to flavor a response as if we were talking in person. i guess it could have been meant as an insult, but that's not a cross i'd be willing to die on.

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    Default Re: Losing friends in divisive times.

    Quote Originally Posted by AlanMc View Post
    D, i don't think the 'meh' was meant to be insulting. i "meh' stuff all the time. i type it in there to flavor a response as if we were talking in person. i guess it could have been meant as an insult, but that's not a cross i'd be willing to die on.
    Some people have chips on both shoulders
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