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Thread: Losing friends in divisive times.

  1. #141
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    Default Re: Losing friends in divisive times.

    Quote Originally Posted by mdh View Post
    When is the last time you purchased a gun online? Or shipped one?
    In Canada, I've purchased almost all of my guns on line, both from businesses and individuals. All arrived through Canada post.

  2. #142
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    Default Re: Losing friends in divisive times.

    Quote Originally Posted by Decourcy View Post
    In Canada, I've purchased almost all of my guns on line, both from businesses and individuals. All arrived through Canada post.
    I don’t know the laws in Canada. Does it come directly to your house?

  3. #143
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    Default Re: Losing friends in divisive times.

    Quote Originally Posted by mdh View Post
    I don’t know the laws in Canada. Does it come directly to your house?
    It would if I had direct mail delivery. Some places do. Here, I drive to the post office to pick up. In the case of a handgun, both the buyer and seller have to contact a government office to transfer registration. In the case of rifles or shotguns, they are unregistered, so the individual seller is tasked with making sure the buyer is a legal purchaser.

  4. #144
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    Default Re: Losing friends in divisive times.

    Here, and where Mr. Hunter lives, anything that goes through the mail has to be handled by an FFL dealer, with the exception of antique and black powder firearms. That means the FFL does a background check on the buyer before handing the firearm over to him. The FFL charges for this. If you want to buy more than one gun, you have to do a background check for each one. Sales between two private individuals in person don’t require background checks. It’s difficult to advertise so most of those are word of mouth, like coworkers, sometimes there’ll be a table or two at gunshows selling ‘private collections’. Usually not much for quantity or quality. To be honest, i’ve never met anybody who wanted to sell guns to a crook. And of all the mass shootings covered in the news, i don’t recall one that a background check was an issue.

  5. #145
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    Default Re: Losing friends in divisive times.

    Quote Originally Posted by mdh View Post
    Here, and where Mr. Hunter lives, anything that goes through the mail has to be handled by an FFL dealer, with the exception of antique and black powder firearms. That means the FFL does a background check on the buyer before handing the firearm over to him. The FFL charges for this. If you want to buy more than one gun, you have to do a background check for each one. Sales between two private individuals in person don’t require background checks. It’s difficult to advertise so most of those are word of mouth, like coworkers, sometimes there’ll be a table or two at gunshows selling ‘private collections’. Usually not much for quantity or quality. To be honest, i’ve never met anybody who wanted to sell guns to a crook. And of all the mass shootings covered in the news, i don’t recall one that a background check was an issue.
    Close… It's a matter of intrastate and interstate. You could mail a rifle intrastate without an FFL because you both live in the same State, and interstate commerce (the Feds) is not involved. Conversely, if an 'in person' transactions occurs between two people who live in different States, an FFL still needs to be involved.

    Those are the Federal laws. There are State laws which could add restrictions.
    "Simple minds discuss people, Average minds discuss things, and Great minds discuss ideas".

  6. #146
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    Default Re: Losing friends in divisive times.

    Interesting differences. I have purchased handguns from Nova Scotia, and once the government check was done on my license, the seller popped it into the mail and away it went, to arrive at my mail box a week later. Not long ago, to actually pick the pistol up, I had to contact the government office again to obtain an "ATT" (authorization to transport) which was a one way permit to allow me to transport my handgun home from the post office. My standard "ATT" to which I had to add every handgun I purchased, allowed me to transport from my home, to a range, a gunsmith, or the border. The Harper government of recent past did away with that, and now my standard "ATT" allows me to pick up from the post office as well.
    With long guns, no ATT required, and the only security in the sale is the seller checking to me sure my license is valid. Which every seller has. I have never actually heard of any long gun sale where the buyer was unlicensed. BP falls under the same catagory as handgun or long gun dependent on barrel or overall length.
    I shoukd note that when I say "handgun" I actually mean "restricted" which includes some short barrelled long guns (under 18"), and some long guns by name alone, including any AR.
    Antiques are completely unregulated as they are not firearms under law.
    There are large online forums of gun enthusiasts where much buying and selling is done. One of the big ones here is "Canadian Gun Nutz". I suspect there are similar sites in your country.

  7. #147
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    Default Re: Losing friends in divisive times.

    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    https://www.facebook.com/HarborWoodworks/

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  8. #148
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    Default Re: Losing friends in divisive times.

    image.jpg

    Is this an "assault weapon"?
    Because it's unrestricted in Canada. I can use it to hunt if I choose, and yet we don't kill each other with them.

  9. #149
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    Default Re: Losing friends in divisive times.

    Just a reminder... picking flyspecks outta the pepper is NOT argument. It's deflection.
    David G
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    https://www.facebook.com/HarborWoodworks/

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  10. #150
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    Default Re: Losing friends in divisive times.

    Quote Originally Posted by Decourcy View Post
    image.jpg

    Is this an "assault weapon"?
    Because it's unrestricted in Canada. I can use it to hunt if I choose, and yet we don't kill each other with them.
    An assault weapon is a high capacity semi auto. Or full auto.

    Period.

    More than 15 rounds and semi auto? Probably an assault weapon.

    Rifle ammo? 15+ rounds of semi auto rifle ammo cannot be seen as anything EXCEPT a weapon for assault. Whatever it looks like.

    Now, for human assault, or an assault on a pack of wild boars is certainly a distinction of purpose made by the user, but the weapon itself? Something that can throw 50 rounds of 7.62 in 30 seconds?

    Bullpup or no, it’s an assault weapon, and should be HIGHLY regulated. Strict, strict licensing and training for that.

    Peace,
    Robert

  11. #151
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    Default Re: Losing friends in divisive times.

    I have not lost any friends here what wit me been a trumpeter. Why theres whole threads of folks that still
    Love me. AND why not?

  12. #152
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    Default Re: Losing friends in divisive times.

    Quote Originally Posted by Decourcy View Post
    image.jpg

    Is this an "assault weapon"?
    Because it's unrestricted in Canada. I can use it to hunt if I choose, and yet we don't kill each other with them.
    Back to the big picture. The US has about four times per capita gun ownership than Canada. Maybe that is a more important factor than type of weapon.

  13. #153
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    Default Re: Losing friends in divisive times.

    Quote Originally Posted by Decourcy View Post
    I can use it to hunt if I choose
    It would be a monumentally stupid choice of hunting firearm, but I rather doubt any of the compensatory characters who buy this sort of thing would ever use it for hunting.

    What are you doing about it?




  14. #154
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    Default Re: Losing friends in divisive times.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Orca View Post
    It would be a monumentally stupid choice of hunting firearm...
    Why?

  15. #155
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    Default Re: Losing friends in divisive times.

    ^Same reason shotguns with slugs aren't really good deer-hunting weapons, I'd guess.
    Hope for the best, but plan for the worst.

  16. #156
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    Default Re: Losing friends in divisive times.

    If you need more than 1-2 shots to bring down a deer, you probably shouldn't be hunting.

    It's not rocket science.
    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

  17. #157
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    Default Re: Losing friends in divisive times.

    Quote Originally Posted by George Jung View Post
    If you need more than 1-2 shots to bring down a deer, you probably shouldn't be hunting.

    It's not rocket science.
    But what if it was a herd of attack deer about to invade your home?

  18. #158
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    Default Re: Losing friends in divisive times.

    Zombie deer? Flame thrower.
    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

  19. #159
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    Default Re: Losing friends in divisive times.

    Quote Originally Posted by George Jung View Post
    If you need more than 1-2 shots to bring down a deer, you probably shouldn't be hunting..
    Fewer if you're drinking Chernobyl's finest vodka...
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

  20. #160
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    Default Re: Losing friends in divisive times.

    Wonder if the deer can see ya coming, if'n you're drinking that stuff?
    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

  21. #161
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    Default Re: Losing friends in divisive times.

    Radioactive pit lamping.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

  22. #162
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    Default Re: Losing friends in divisive times.

    Quote Originally Posted by amish rob View Post
    An assault weapon is a high capacity semi auto. Or full auto.

    Period.

    More than 15 rounds and semi auto? Probably an assault weapon.

    Rifle ammo? 15+ rounds of semi auto rifle ammo cannot be seen as anything EXCEPT a weapon for assault. Whatever it looks like.

    Now, for human assault, or an assault on a pack of wild boars is certainly a distinction of purpose made by the user, but the weapon itself? Something that can throw 50 rounds of 7.62 in 30 seconds?

    Bullpup or no, it’s an assault weapon, and should be HIGHLY regulated. Strict, strict licensing and training for that.

    Peace,
    Robert
    Actual definition is select fire to be an assault rifle, but it doesn't really matter, since the term has come to mean something else, not easily defined. Partially that fluid definition could be based on function, but could be looks, capacity, or caliber.

    Which was partially my point. Assault weapons are banned in Canada, but manufacturers and retailers will find work-arounds, or loopholes in language.

    If I had one of these things, I could only legally have a 5 round magazine. But I can buy 20 or more round magazines with nothing making it 5 other than a rivet. In fact, the 100 round drums are here too.

    So is it not an assault weapon because I can only have a 5 round magazine? But becomes one if I use a pair of pliers to pull a rivet out of a magazines? Things get fuzzy.

    Not disagreeing with what you are saying. Just trying to point out how hard it can be to legislate this stuff.

    I can can also buy a Tavor here, which is the gun used by the Israili military. Civilian versions are not select fire, but it's the same gun otherwise.

  23. #163
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    Default Re: Losing friends in divisive times.

    Quote Originally Posted by LeeG View Post
    Back to the big picture. The US has about four times per capita gun ownership than Canada. Maybe that is a more important factor than type of weapon.
    I agree that the numbers are a huge problem. In fact the main problem when it comes to enforcing legislation. But the point of my post was why don't we have 1/10 your shootings, since we have 1/10 the population, and are much the same people? Why don't we want to shoot each other, and why do you? We have the weapons available if someone decided to. And we do have mass shootings, just nowhere near your number.

  24. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Orca View Post
    It would be a monumentally stupid choice of hunting firearm, but I rather doubt any of the compensatory characters who buy this sort of thing would ever use it for hunting.
    I would use it for varmint and paper and nothing else. Yes, semi is usefull for coyotes.
    Although I do have friends who hunt deer with .223, I don't think it's ethical.

  25. #165
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    That's true - there are any number of ways that sellers and buyers can subvert a law's intended results. But the point is, such folks have to take additional risks to do that subversion - they have to drill out that rivet, or purchase the specific part which is needed to convert a semi-auto to full-auto (purchases which are likely observed, eh?). Each such risk-taking juncture peels off some portion of the population which would have bought the object of their fantasy, had it been fully legal. So sure, some of those things are out there in Canada ... but fewer per capita than if there'd been no rules to disobey. No laws to contravene, with all the ongoing legal risk that involves. Which is a long way of saying - sure, things are "fuzzy," but not so much as one might think. And the intent behind legal prohibitions isn't "fuzzy." It's about reducing the risk of events like happened last weekend.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

  26. #166
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    Default Re: Losing friends in divisive times.

    Quote Originally Posted by Decourcy View Post
    I agree that the numbers are a huge problem. In fact the main problem when it comes to enforcing legislation. But the point of my post was why don't we have 1/10 your shootings, since we have 1/10 the population, and are much the same people? Why don't we want to shoot each other, and why do you? We have the weapons available if someone decided to. And we do have mass shootings, just nowhere near your number.
    You have 1/6 the per capita death rate than the US with 1/4 the per capita ownership. Maybe you have a better outlook on life, social services and better idea what guns are for?

  27. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by TomF View Post
    That's true - there are any number of ways that sellers and buyers can subvert a law's intended results. But the point is, such folks have to take additional risks to do that subversion - they have to drill out that rivet, or purchase the specific part which is needed to convert a semi-auto to full-auto (purchases which are likely observed, eh?). Each such risk-taking juncture peels off some portion of the population which would have bought the object of their fantasy, had it been fully legal. So sure, some of those things are out there in Canada ... but fewer per capita than if there'd been no rules to disobey. No laws to contravene, with all the ongoing legal risk that involves. Which is a long way of saying - sure, things are "fuzzy," but not so much as one might think. And the intent behind legal prohibitions isn't "fuzzy." It's about reducing the risk of events like happened last weekend.
    Again, not disagreeing here. But let's just take a POS like in Dayton. Place him in Canada. How hard is it for him to do the exact same thing?
    Id say not hard at all. He did legally own those guns there, and with little effort, could own the same guns (and magazine) here. I gather that he had "hit lists" written up when younger, so he obviously had something like this in the back of his mind for some time.
    Are there people like that here? Of course. The process of getting a rifle licence here is not onerous. If someone is obsessed with being famous as a killer, there isn't much to stop that happening. But it really doesn't. Or hasn't much, at least not yet. So again, why is that?

    Im not talking here about gang shootings, suicides, or accidental shootings etc, but specifically mass shootings of random individuals. What is the driver behind that mentality. In my opinion, until that driver is addressed, the shootings will continue unless some magic rust compound is created to destroy all guns at once. Even with regulations, the guns will still be there, the drive will still be there.

    As an aside, another example of "fuzzy". I have several over capacity AR magazines which are totally legal. They are chambered for .50 Beowulf, of which they will take 5, but 10 .223 rounds fit just fine. LAR magazines also do the same.

  28. #168
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    Default Re: Losing friends in divisive times.

    Quote Originally Posted by George Jung View Post
    If you need more than 1-2 shots to bring down a deer, you probably shouldn't be hunting.

    It's not rocket science.
    VT has a max of a 6 rd clip/mag when hunting.

    And as of last year max 15 rifle/18 handgun the rest of the time.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  29. #169
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    Default Re: Losing friends in divisive times.

    Quote Originally Posted by Decourcy View Post
    I would use it for varmint and paper and nothing else. Yes, semi is usefull for coyotes.
    Although I do have friends who hunt deer with .223, I don't think it's ethical.
    They hunt deer with dogs also.
    Ethical, what does that have to do with it?

  30. #170
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    Our gun culture mythos is almost entirely based on identification with The North, and being out in The Woods. Guns as hunting tools, and only for self-defence against 4-footed predators. Where America is based on individuals daring themselves with "Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness," Canada is based on a much more communitarian-oriented "Peace, Order and Good Government." That difference isn't just reflected in our different political cultures, but our different gun cultures.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

  31. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeeG View Post
    You have 1/6 the per capita death rate than the US with 1/4 the per capita ownership. Maybe you have a better outlook on life, social services and better idea what guns are for?
    And this is what I would argue needs to be addressed. Until the US joins the first world, by not using its citizens as grist in the mill, the problems will remain. Universal health care, universal decent education, universal programs to care for the aged. Perhaps not having 25% of the worldwide prison population in a for-profit prison system.

  32. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by Decourcy View Post
    I agree that the numbers are a huge problem. In fact the main problem when it comes to enforcing legislation. But the point of my post was why don't we have 1/10 your shootings, since we have 1/10 the population, and are much the same people? Why don't we want to shoot each other, and why do you? We have the weapons available if someone decided to. And we do have mass shootings, just nowhere near your number.
    A saner culture, a gov't that isn't constantly feeding fear (which started well before Trump), media that isn't doing the same feeding (at least to the same level), and finally far less in the way of xenophobia.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  33. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by TomF View Post
    Our gun culture mythos is almost entirely based on identification with The North, and being out in The Woods. Guns as hunting tools, and only for self-defence against 4-footed predators. Where America is based on individuals daring themselves with "Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness," Canada is based on a much more communitarian-oriented "Peace, Order and Good Government." That difference isn't just reflected in our different political cultures, but our different gun cultures.
    Exactlly. And that is the "cultural problem" which I think is the core issue with the US gun problem. That problem needs addressing.

  34. #174
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    Default Re: Losing friends in divisive times.

    Quote Originally Posted by Decourcy View Post
    Actual definition is select fire to be an assault rifle, but it doesn't really matter, since the term has come to mean something else, not easily defined. Partially that fluid definition could be based on function, but could be looks, capacity, or caliber.

    Which was partially my point. Assault weapons are banned in Canada, but manufacturers and retailers will find work-arounds, or loopholes in language.

    If I had one of these things, I could only legally have a 5 round magazine. But I can buy 20 or more round magazines with nothing making it 5 other than a rivet. In fact, the 100 round drums are here too.

    So is it not an assault weapon because I can only have a 5 round magazine? But becomes one if I use a pair of pliers to pull a rivet out of a magazines? Things get fuzzy.

    Not disagreeing with what you are saying. Just trying to point out how hard it can be to legislate this stuff.

    I can can also buy a Tavor here, which is the gun used by the Israili military. Civilian versions are not select fire, but it's the same gun otherwise.
    This subject is far too close to home for me to engage any further on this forum about it.

    Peace,
    Sees Ghosts

  35. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by Decourcy View Post
    Exactlly. And that is the "cultural problem" which I think is the core issue with the US gun problem. That problem needs addressing.
    But we're exceptional!

    [not always a good thing, eh?]
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

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