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Thread: Losing friends in divisive times.

  1. #106
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    Default Re: Losing friends in divisive times.

    Maybe make the sale of rifles and pistols capable of being fitted with high capacity magazines illegal, including the sale or transfer of this type of weapons already owned, with stiff penalties. Seems like most of these shooters have bought new, despite the enormous amount in circulation.

    About the second amendment, what happened to the well regulated part? Seems like the whole thing is subject to interpretation.

  2. #107
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    Default Re: Losing friends in divisive times.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Wright View Post
    We have a relative who always carries, including at family gatherings, it's visible if you are observant. Most people aren't. It's not something I do, or ever desire to do, but I've known him since he was a kid, I like him and I don't consider him a threat. He has never gotten out of line with relatives or strangers. He's also a Trump supporter, the only one in our extended family. I seldom discuss politics with him. He has other qualities that I feel outweigh these two factors. If you ever needed assistance in almost any way he would provide it, relative or not. He's pleasant and interesting to be around. What could I possibly gain losing him as a friend / relative? Part of the socialization process is getting along and functioning cooperatively with all sorts of people. I have no reason to think ill of him.
    Tell him you need his help getting rid of 300 million murder weapons.

    Quote Originally Posted by SeanM26 View Post
    I am not being ridiculous. It is the only way to get the guns away from millions of Americans.

    The terms "Molon Labe", "cold dead hands"," and "3%" are not catch phrases. They are straight up threats from citizens to the government.
    So, those who support such phrases are traitors. Just like Jefferson Davis.

    Quote Originally Posted by BrianW View Post
    If a friend 'unfriended me' over gun control, I'd simply assume they were never really a good friend.
    . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by SeanM26 View Post
    I'll be your Huckleberry.

    All gun control is unconstitutional. The founding fathers wanted the citizens to have access to the same armament the government does.

    Repeal the National Firearms Act of 1934.

    An armed society is a polite society.
    Bullspit. The FF wanted to be able to raise a well-trained army on a moment's notice.

    If we could raise the lot of them from the grave and inform them as to what is going on now, the lot of them would laugh in your face . . . at the very least. Quite a number of them may regard you as a blood enemy of Liberty, and treat you accordingly.

    Quote Originally Posted by SeanM26 View Post
    Right. I remember the Branch Davidians in Waco pretty well. How many children did thr government kill rying to seize their firearms?
    The Govt handling of the entire incident was wrong-headed, I'll give you that, but the US Constitution does not contain a self-destruct clause.

    Just because a pack of Morons decides they have tyhe right to overthrow my duly-Constituted Government does not mean it's true. They can believe in Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy and the Easter Bunny, too, but that doesn't make them real.

    Quote Originally Posted by SeanM26 View Post
    So you guys are not against gun violence if it is state sponsored against people you disagree with. Got it.
    Wrong, AND wrong-headed. "People who disagree" with the fact that the US government is the duly-Constituted Law of the Land need to pack up and move to Somalia. Their efforts to transform my beautiful country into a civil-war-torn, third-world spithole are NOT appreciated, and durn-well SHOULD be opposed with force.

    Quote Originally Posted by SeanM26 View Post
    The militia was every able bodied man between the ages of 16 and 60. With equality being what it is today, everyone in this country is part of the militia.

    And with over 100 million firearm owners carrying 400+ million guns, if they killed everyone they hated there would be no one left.
    Wrong again. The "well-regulated militia" no longer exists.

    It is a fiction, a pipe dream.

    A lie.

    Quote Originally Posted by SeanM26 View Post
    Gun control is racist.
    [REDACTED]



    Quote Originally Posted by Robbie 2 View Post
    Didn't want to post but feel I must.
    We constantly hear from NRA and pro-gun people that the 2nd amendment gives them the right to own their guns.
    Also....it is too hard/can't be done to change the 2nd amendment.
    Therefore, DON'T change the 2nd amendment. ENACT it.
    CALL UP THE MILITIA.........have them report to whatever military base is closest on a given day.
    Any gun owner who doesn't report is immediately illegal and commits a felony by holding onto their firearms.
    The NRA/gun owners should have no complaint as the 2nd amendment requires them to be part of a well trained Militia.
    When they realise that they have to report/train periodically and are
    likely to be the 1st off the rank whenever needed for deployment to the USA's next military adventure,
    the desire to hold onto their firearms will diminish very quickly.
    Not bad.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hallam View Post
    ......In depth analysis?
    In-depth analysis would require a certain depth on the part of the analyzer, yes?



    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Mahan View Post
    . . .

    I used to shoot. I gave it up for a variety of personal reasons before I was thirty. I sold my twenty-two and twelve guage and model ninety-four when I became a dad at eighteen. I have fond memories of all that. It makes me sick that the situation is what it has become. The only adult and civilized thing to do in the dire urgent national situation is act like adults and put away the toys, the things of our youth.

    . . .

    Hear, hear!
    Rattling the teacups.

  3. #108
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    Default Re: Losing friends in divisive times.

    Quote Originally Posted by hightop View Post
    Maybe make the sale of rifles and pistols capable of being fitted with high capacity magazines illegal, including the sale or transfer of this type of weapons already owned, with stiff penalties. Seems like most of these shooters have bought new, despite the enormous amount in circulation.

    About the second amendment, what happened to the well regulated part? Seems like the whole thing is subject to interpretation.
    I have been listening to a lot of coverage of this on NPR, and they have gotten most of it right, I think.

    Statistically, mass murderers are rare as hen's teeth, but the great majority of them obtain their weapons legally.

    Guns used by the run-of-the-mill criminals are typically stolen, or are bought from acquaintances or 'on the street'.

    The statistical divide is very real and completely overwhelming.

    That makes any solution difficult even to discuss, because the problems themselves are so completely different.
    Rattling the teacups.

  4. #109
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    Default Re: Losing friends in divisive times.

    Quote Originally Posted by SeanM26 View Post
    Banning assault rifles will never work. There are too many of them. There are more being bought and built every day. Every time a tragedy happens and emotions get strong there is a huge surge in buying.
    First of all, the term "assault rifle" is misleading. Most folks own a semi-automatic rifle with a large capacity magazine and maybe some other features that put it in a particular group.

    Second - Bullsquat. We've never tried, so I don't know if it would work and neither do you.

    Quote Originally Posted by SeanM26 View Post
    If bans are placed, and confiscation is ordered, there will be bloodshed. The police are also citizens and members of the communities they serve. Do you honestly believe that all of them will follow orders to go against friends and family? I do not.
    Again, Bullsquat. Most of the population follows the law - a larger number than do not. Are there going to be a few of the "cold dead hands" mentality? Yeah, sure. Will the majority turn the firearms in and take the payout to avoid being criminals? Yes.

    I'm not so naiive as to believe that there will be total compliance, but it will take a while to figure out who the scofflaws are and deal with them. Penalties after a certain date should be severe - large fines, felony conviction, jail time.

    People don't like change, but they go along - a good example is all the plastic bag and bottle bans that are starting to crop up. They're for the good of everyone. People adjust.
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
    -William A. Ward



  5. #110
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    Default Re: Losing friends in divisive times.

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoez View Post
    First of all, the term "assault rifle" is misleading. Most folks own a semi-automatic rifle with a large capacity magazine and maybe some other features that put it in a particular group.

    Second - Bullsquat. We've never tried, so I don't know if it would work and neither do you.



    Again, Bullsquat. Most of the population follows the law - a larger number than do not. Are there going to be a few of the "cold dead hands" mentality? Yeah, sure. Will the majority turn the firearms in and take the payout to avoid being criminals? Yes.

    I'm not so naiive as to believe that there will be total compliance, but it will take a while to figure out who the scofflaws are and deal with them. Penalties after a certain date should be severe - large fines, felony conviction, jail time.

    People don't like change, but they go along - a good example is all the plastic bag and bottle bans that are starting to crop up. They're for the good of everyone. People adjust.
    THREAD DRIFT ALERT!!!

    A reusable shopping bag has the environmental footprint of 300 plastic bags.
    Rattling the teacups.

  6. #111
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    Default Re: Losing friends in divisive times.

    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post
    THREAD DRIFT ALERT!!!

    A reusable shopping bag has the environmental footprint of 300 plastic bags.
    Years ago, when Quad was young, we knew a lady who made reusable shopping bags from old tee shirts. She called them Tee Bags, and never knew why we chuckled so.

    They were neat bags, but tee shirt material ain’t all in it for bags.

    Peace,
    Drifty McGee

  7. #112
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    Default Re: Losing friends in divisive times.

    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post
    THREAD DRIFT ALERT!!!

    A reusable shopping bag has the environmental footprint of 300 plastic bags.
    Ok, Mr. Beany Drifter - where I'm from, lots of shopping bags are either from recycled materials or from natural materials. Granted, they have a slightly greater footprint than 3 mil plastic, but they sure do last a lot longer and you don't see them in trees by the side of the road or river.
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
    -William A. Ward



  8. #113
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    Default Re: Losing friends in divisive times.

    Back to the topic at hand:

    I have often wondered if the divisive nature of this issue is being fanned into a flame by outside actors.

    To wit: The NRA has had some serious money issues and likely would have had to either reduce their mission, or fold entirely. They haven't. They've had some capital influx from folks in Russia and Eastern Europe. Are they supporting the NRA financially to keep the wedge in our discussion of firearms in this country and to make change and legislation for change slow to non-existent?

    Food for thought, says I.
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
    -William A. Ward



  9. #114
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    Default Re: Losing friends in divisive times.

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoez View Post
    First of all, the term "assault rifle" is misleading. Most folks own a semi-automatic rifle with a large capacity magazine and maybe some other features that put it in a particular group.

    Second - Bullsquat. We've never tried, so I don't know if it would work and neither do you.



    Again, Bullsquat. Most of the population follows the law - a larger number than do not. Are there going to be a few of the "cold dead hands" mentality? Yeah, sure. Will the majority turn the firearms in and take the payout to avoid being criminals? Yes.

    I'm not so naiive as to believe that there will be total compliance, but it will take a while to figure out who the scofflaws are and deal with them. Penalties after a certain date should be severe - large fines, felony conviction, jail time.
    The problem is giving the government the power to create criminals with a stroke of a pen. If something is purchased completely legally, the government can't turn around and just say, "Oh hey! You never did anything that broke the law but now we have decided you are a criminal because you have that!"

    It is part of the "slippery slope" argument. If you give them an inch, they take a mile.

  10. #115
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    Default Re: Losing friends in divisive times.

    Quote Originally Posted by SeanM26 View Post
    The problem is giving the government the power to create criminals with a stroke of a pen. If something is purchased completely legally, the government can't turn around and just say, "Oh hey! You never did anything that broke the law but now we have decided you are a criminal because you have that!"

    It is part of the "slippery slope" argument. If you give them an inch, they take a mile.
    Laughable.

    The PURPOSE of government is to institute LAW.

    The slippery slope you are so rapidly sliding down ends in anarchy, violence, famine and slavery.
    Rattling the teacups.

  11. #116
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    Default Re: Losing friends in divisive times.

    Quote Originally Posted by SeanM26 View Post
    The problem is giving the government the power to create criminals with a stroke of a pen. If something is purchased completely legally, the government can't turn around and just say, "Oh hey! You never did anything that broke the law but now we have decided you are a criminal because you have that!"
    Oh no you don't. That's another HUGE bullsquat argument. The Government didn't create the criminals. The government - our representatives - make a law. If you choose not to obey it, you are choosing to behave in a criminal manner - you're making yourself the criminal.

    They've done it already, anyway - bump stocks, anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by SeanM26 View Post
    It is part of the "slippery slope" argument. If you give them an inch, they take a mile.
    Again. Bullsquat.
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
    -William A. Ward



  12. #117
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    Default Re: Losing friends in divisive times.

    Quote Originally Posted by SeanM26 View Post
    The problem is giving the government the power to create criminals with a stroke of a pen. If something is purchased completely legally, the government can't turn around and just say, "Oh hey! You never did anything that broke the law but now we have decided you are a criminal because you have that!"

    It is part of the "slippery slope" argument. If you give them an inch, they take a mile.
    They did with bumpstocks. Haven’t seen that civil war yet.
    Fight Entropy, build a wooden boat!

  13. #118
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    Default Re: Losing friends in divisive times.

    Reynard,

    Re: OP

    I lost a really good friend over an argument about removing the Lee Statue from the town square in Charlottesville. He lived a block away on the same street as the statue and we would walk past it to go downtown. Our argument happened over a few beers and became overheated. It was 5 months prior to that violent day, Heather Heyer lost her live.

    Despite all that has happened I still miss John's friendship and he will always have a place in my heart. I would speak to him again but I doubt his pride would ever allow it. My attempts to communicate with him have gone unanswered and at this point, I doubt I'll try again.


    good luck,
    Skip

    ---This post is delivered with righteous passion and with a solemn southern directness --
    ...........fighting against the deliberate polarization of politics...

  14. #119
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    Default Re: Losing friends in divisive times.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reynard38 View Post
    They did with bumpstocks. Haven’t seen that civil war yet.
    Prezactly.
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
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  15. #120
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    Default Re: Losing friends in divisive times.

    They did it with heroin and marijuana. There were good people on both sides. With a stroke of the pen they made one side criminals.
    Hope for the best, but plan for the worst.

  16. #121
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    Default Re: Losing friends in divisive times.

    Quote Originally Posted by mmd View Post
    They did it with heroin and marijuana. There were good people on both sides. With a stroke of the pen they made one side criminals.
    Cocaine, too, I believe.
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
    -William A. Ward



  17. #122
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    Default Re: Losing friends in divisive times.

    If, at any time prior to about twenty years ago, I read the posts I've just written this morning, I would've laughed at the arsehole who wrote it for being over the top and pungently stupid. Things change, some things don't that should. Humanity is suffering; it's what we're good at, making ourselves suffer.


  18. #123
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    Default Re: Losing friends in divisive times.

    I have not lost any friends here, sure there have been a few squabbles and pies thrown but I still love all of youse!

  19. #124
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    Default Re: Losing friends in divisive times.

    It's ill taking the breeks aff a wild Highlandman
    Creationists aren't mad - they're possessed of demons.

  20. #125
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    Default Re: Losing friends in divisive times.

    Quote Originally Posted by Robbie 2 View Post
    Didn't want to post but feel I must.
    We constantly hear from NRA and pro-gun people that the 2nd amendment gives them the right to own their guns.
    Also....it is too hard/can't be done to change the 2nd amendment.
    Therefore, DON'T change the 2nd amendment. ENACT it.
    CALL UP THE MILITIA.........have them report to whatever military base is closest on a given day.
    Any gun owner who doesn't report is immediately illegal and commits a felony by holding onto their firearms.
    The NRA/gun owners should have no complaint as the 2nd amendment requires them to be part of a well trained Militia.
    When they realise that they have to report/train periodically and are
    likely to be the 1st off the rank whenever needed for deployment to the USA's next military adventure,
    the desire to hold onto their firearms will diminish very quickly.
    This seems like much the best idea.

    A reasonable standard of physical fitness, as well as discipline, would seem to be envisaged by the words "well regulated".
    IMAGINES VEL NON FUERINT

  21. #126
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    Default Re: Losing friends in divisive times.

    They haven't tried to confiscate any bump stocks, yet.

  22. #127
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    Default Re: Losing friends in divisive times.

    I'd noticed that. Cowards.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

  23. #128
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    Default Re: Losing friends in divisive times.

    Quote Originally Posted by SeanM26 View Post
    They haven't tried to confiscate any bump stocks, yet.
    Are you sure? Really? Unequivocably?

    I'm sure some have likely been found and taken in traffic stops or home searches where firearms are involved. I believe there were a few incidents with the Red Flag rule in MA in the past few months.

    From what I understand, there was some compliance with the law and folks turned them in, but I don't think the distribution was widespread - anyone who knows anything about firearms knows that a really high rate of fire takes a toll on barrels and other components, so I'm sure the popularity was limited.

    Eventually when they make an appearance, any remaining bump stocks in circulation will be confiscated.
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
    -William A. Ward



  24. #129
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    Default Re: Losing friends in divisive times.

    Quote Originally Posted by Robbie 2 View Post
    Didn't want to post but feel I must.
    We constantly hear from NRA and pro-gun people that the 2nd amendment gives them the right to own their guns.
    Also....it is too hard/can't be done to change the 2nd amendment.
    Therefore, DON'T change the 2nd amendment. ENACT it.
    CALL UP THE MILITIA.........have them report to whatever military base is closest on a given day.
    Any gun owner who doesn't report is immediately illegal and commits a felony by holding onto their firearms.
    The NRA/gun owners should have no complaint as the 2nd amendment requires them to be part of a well trained Militia.
    When they realise that they have to report/train periodically and are
    likely to be the 1st off the rank whenever needed for deployment to the USA's next military adventure,
    the desire to hold onto their firearms will diminish very quickly.
    I like this one. No one in DC would ever have the guts to do it, but...
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  25. #130
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    Default Re: Losing friends in divisive times.

    We don't need to ban guns, we could solve most of this problem with regulation and licensing.

    The idea that there is no solution is a murderous lie which people often tell themselves. Another lie is that we need to ban guns or take them away.

    Simple steps like banning online purchases would help a lot. They would also help the neighborhood gun dealer, but I don't think the NRA actually cares about that guy.

    Require training and licenses.

    Background checks. The only influential people in American politics opposed to this are Vladimir Putin and Mitch McConnell.

    There is a long list of things that would help.
    Yachting, the only sport where you get to be a mechanic, electrician, plumber and carpenter

  26. #131
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    Default Re: Losing friends in divisive times.

    Quote Originally Posted by mmd View Post
    They did it with heroin and marijuana. There were good people on both sides. With a stroke of the pen they made one side criminals.
    Age for alcohol purchases went from 18 to 21 , no civil war.

  27. #132
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    Default Re: Losing friends in divisive times.

    Quote Originally Posted by SKIP KILPATRICK View Post
    Reynard,

    Re: OP

    I lost a really good friend over an argument about removing the Lee Statue from the town square in Charlottesville. He lived a block away on the same street as the statue and we would walk past it to go downtown. Our argument happened over a few beers and became overheated. It was 5 months prior to that violent day, Heather Heyer lost her live.

    Despite all that has happened I still miss John's friendship and he will always have a place in my heart. I would speak to him again but I doubt his pride would ever allow it. My attempts to communicate with him have gone unanswered and at this point, I doubt I'll try again.


    good luck,
    I have pub friends. One fellow was charming and fun to be around. After Trump was in he started goading me with racist comments and humor. When I said cut that chit out he responded with “Oh don’t be so sensitive”. Funny what has bubbled up to the surface.

  28. #133
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    Default Re: Losing friends in divisive times.

    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    https://www.facebook.com/HarborWoodworks/

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

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    Default Re: Losing friends in divisive times.

    Quote Originally Posted by SeanM26 View Post
    They haven't tried to confiscate any bump stocks, yet.
    As the bump stocks become apparant they will take them and fine the owner.
    If you are engaged in something illegal and are in possession of a bump stock - you'll get a harder sentence.

    Because something is illegal doesn't mean the police are going to raid every house in the USA. Laws work over time, not instantly.
    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

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    Default Re: Losing friends in divisive times.

    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post
    Laughable.

    The PURPOSE of government is to institute LAW.

    The slippery slope you are so rapidly sliding down ends in anarchy, violence, famine and slavery.
    Like sanctuary city laws are lawful?

    How about sanctuary gun citys.?

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    Default Re: Losing friends in divisive times.

    Quote Originally Posted by LeeG View Post
    I have pub friends. One fellow was charming and fun to be around. After Trump was in he started goading me with racist comments and humor. When I said cut that chit out he responded with “Oh don’t be so sensitive”. Funny what has bubbled up to the surface.
    Every lib here has a story about their wayward Republican uncle, neighbor, co worker., it's just we have never heard from any of these mythical people yet.

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    Default Re: Losing friends in divisive times.

    Quote Originally Posted by bobbys View Post
    Like sanctuary city laws are lawful?

    How about sanctuary gun citys.?
    You keep yammering about sanctuary cities but donít know what they are.

    Peace,
    Robert

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    Default Re: Losing friends in divisive times.

    Quote Originally Posted by SeanM26 View Post
    They haven't tried to confiscate any bump stocks, yet.
    Do not fret, Mueller has 29 armed agents ready to storm the front door. Notice they all had automatic weapons to catch Rodger and his wife in their PJs. CNN was somehow mysteriously just driving by when they saw it.

  34. #139
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    Default Re: Losing friends in divisive times.

    "Do not fret, Mueller has 29 armed agents ready to storm the front door. Notice they all had automatic weapons to catch Rodger and his wife in their PJs. CNN was somehow mysteriously just driving by when they saw it."
    Now you really do sound off your rocker...

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    Default Re: Losing friends in divisive times.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Hunter View Post
    We don't need to ban guns, we could solve most of this problem with regulation and licensing.

    The idea that there is no solution is a murderous lie which people often tell themselves. Another lie is that we need to ban guns or take them away.

    Simple steps like banning online purchases would help a lot. They would also help the neighborhood gun dealer, but I don't think the NRA actually cares about that guy.

    Require training and licenses.

    Background checks. The only influential people in American politics opposed to this are Vladimir Putin and Mitch McConnell.

    There is a long list of things that would help.
    When is the last time you purchased a gun online? Or shipped one?

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