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Thread: Taping off varnish in preparation for paint

  1. #1
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    Default Taping off varnish in preparation for paint

    I'm about to tape off about 200 feet of varnish where the rails and house teak meet the deck and roof. The image gives you some idea of my situation.

    I'll be painting with a two-part system like Interlux Perfection. Am I worried the two-part paint will lift any varnish not covered by the tape? Thanks in advance. This site is a gold-mine of information and an invaluable resource.


    sum19h16.jpg

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Taping off varnish in preparation for paint

    In theory, the two part is wholly dependent on the chemical reaction of the two parts together and doesn't require any evaporation of solvents. However, 2 part PUs are known to sometimes include some solvent such as acetone or laquer thinners to improve workability and flow, so there may be minor amounts of that around. Then the thinners offered to be used with those paints are basically those things. If you had it in a sealed environment and were using a lot of thinner to slosh on super wet with rollers or something, then you might be getting your varnish a bit tacky, but with as much ventilation as it looks like you'll have there, IMO it will be fine, spatter is really the only concern.
    2019: returning from being sidelined with medical probs, crossing fingers worst is over, still in "armchair enthusiast" mode for time being.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Taping off varnish in preparation for paint

    When doing similar work I've had no problem with Awlgrip affecting varnish underneath, other brands I dunno for sure. Often have paint right on varnish right at the very edge, as one can get a better tape line by overlapping paint on varnish just a teeny bit. Maybe worth a small test with the materials of your choice?

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Taping off varnish in preparation for paint

    Yes, a test. Testing with what you have is so easy, and so revealing.... why wouldn’t one?

    Jeff

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    I'll probably get beat up for saying this, you could have done the paint first and then varnish,

    But what's done is done.

    Two-part paints have a terrible way of getting under the tape edge, matter what the cost of the tape was.

    Just a suggestion, mix a small batch of paint with the hardener (being sure to get the ratio correct) let it set long as possible, before it kicks. With a fingertip ( gloved or not) use it to seal the edge of the tape.

    Another trick I've used is to make a scratch in the gel coat on or at the edge of the tape,
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

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    Default Re: Taping off varnish in preparation for paint

    To stop the bleed under the tape; I tape down, then varnish over the edge to be painted (so that it is varnish that bleeds under the tape). Let it dry and paint over it.

    I'd be surprised to hear that 2 pack will burn off the varnish - i use the two in close quarters and never noted that effect.

    There was a recent WB Magazine article that relates to this.
    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Taping off varnish in preparation for paint

    Thanks all.

    I thought about paint before varnish, but I wanted to get all that wood sealed and protected from paint splatter (which can be wiped up as it happens).

    I might do a test, as someone suggested, but it might be that the unwanted reactions take time or remain invisible to the eye until later.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Taping off varnish in preparation for paint

    In terms of tidyness it is perfectly logical to varnish before paint. I don't believe something like Perfection will do any harm to something like Flagship, my preferred single part varnish, well cured. You need very little overlap of the paint over the varnish. The tape can be sealed and paint bleed prevented by lightly sanding the tape edge, something like 220 or 320. The dust will fill those tiny voids along the tape. Use quality tape like 3M Painters, or Delicate Surfaces if there is any question about lifting the varnish, or Fineline ($$$). Don't wait forever to pull the tape. Pull away from the paint at a flat angle, sort of pulling the tape back over itself. Take your time.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Taping off varnish in preparation for paint

    I would get my tape from an autobody supply not a box store. we tape two tone paint jobs all the time without paint bleeding in the auto business.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Taping off varnish in preparation for paint

    Buy the green tape that is designed for use with lacquer. Rub the edge down hard with your thumb.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Taping off varnish in preparation for paint

    If you use a one inch soft flat lettering brush you can avoid the drudgery of taping and instead, cut in the line. Just be sure to clean the brush thoroughly when done. The ones made by Mack are much cheaper than those made by Grumbacher. Leave an inch or two away from the varnish and finish with the lettering brush. Much quicker and cheaper than taping!
    Jay
    https://www.amazon.com/Mack-Brush-19.../dp/B0038D5CN6
    Last edited by Jay Greer; 08-07-2019 at 01:35 PM.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Taping off varnish in preparation for paint

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Greer View Post
    If you use a one inch soft flat lettering brush you can avoid the drudgery of taping and instead, cut in the line. Just be sure to clean the brush thoroughly when done. The ones made by Mack are much cheaper than those made by Grumbacher. Leave an inch or two away from the varnish and finish with the lettering brush. Much quicker and cheaper than taping!
    Jay
    https://www.amazon.com/Mack-Brush-19.../dp/B0038D5CN6
    I was thinking that, there might be some squiggles, but will anyone notice if they are riding by on a galloping horse?
    Cheers
    Kent and Skipper
    Small Boat Restoration blog

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Taping off varnish in preparation for paint

    Well galloping horse or not! Taping is time consuming, tedious, expensive and it can be frustrating if you are working alone. All of the yards now have paint crews that are fast as well as dependent on lots of tape! I am always amazed by how fast they work! But it usulally takes two of them or more to tango! A seasoned painter with a good brush and fist can be done before they get started. It takes a bit of time to learn how to drag a straight line! Practice is the way to get to Carnegie Hall!
    Jay

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    Default

    I'm so old that I remember the two tone paint jobs on the cars from the 50s one of my most favorite memories is the aqua color with the cream white color on the 55 56 Chevys the paint line between them was perfect!
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

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    Default Re: Taping off varnish in preparation for paint

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Greer View Post
    Well galloping horse or not! .... A seasoned painter with a good brush and fist can be done before they get started. It takes a bit of time to learn how to drag a straight line! Practice is the way to get to Carnegie Hall!
    Jay
    I'm with you Jay. I'm considering my squiggles, acceptable by my standards. I imagine I could be a bit better with the right tools, maybe when I go to touch up the paint on ST. JACQUES I can give it a go, as I am not too pleased with taping and then finding seepers afterwards. Will I still go sailing anyway, yes. Thanks for listing the brand of brush you like, i'll check them out.

    My Galloping Horse criteria was adopted so that I allow myself to say that sometimes in my hobby world that good enough is good enough, not perfect, as we know only the Great Spirit can make something perfect. Other wise I'd still be trying to make the stem on our Penobscot 14! To that end, I always incorporate a purposeful mistake into my work so appease the Spirits, yes, I'm sure that's why that unexplained screw hole is there or errant saw cut....
    Cheers
    Kent and Skipper
    Small Boat Restoration blog

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Taping off varnish in preparation for paint

    Hey Kent, We do the best we can as long as it is fun!
    Dragging a line is easier if you remember to pull rather than push the brush.
    Jay

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Taping off varnish in preparation for paint

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Greer View Post
    Hey Kent, We do the best we can as long as it is fun!
    Dragging a line is easier if you remember to pull rather than push the brush.
    Jay
    Makes sense. Can't wait to see how tanmaro's project turns out, what worked and what didn't. Looks great already!
    Cheers
    Kent and Skipper
    Small Boat Restoration blog

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Taping off varnish in preparation for paint

    Quote Originally Posted by DeniseO30 View Post
    I'll probably get beat up for saying this, you could have done the paint first and then varnish,

    But what's done is done.

    Two-part paints have a terrible way of getting under the tape edge, matter what the cost of the tape was.

    Just a suggestion, mix a small batch of paint with the hardener (being sure to get the ratio correct) let it set long as possible, before it kicks. With a fingertip ( gloved or not) use it to seal the edge of the tape.

    Another trick I've used is to make a scratch in the gel coat on or at the edge of the tape,
    Beat up? No. But there are several reasons we try and do the varnish first.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Taping off varnish in preparation for paint

    Quote Originally Posted by signalcharlie View Post
    My Galloping Horse criteria was adopted so that I allow myself to say that sometimes in my hobby world that good enough is good enough, not perfect, as we know only the Great Spirit can make something perfect. Other wise I'd still be trying to make the stem on our Penobscot 14! To that end, I always incorporate a purposeful mistake into my work so appease the Spirits, yes, I'm sure that's why that unexplained screw hole is there or errant saw cut....
    I have this tendency towards perfectionism that used to prevent me from ever getting anything finished, because the first 95% took the first 95% of the time, and the next 2.5% the next 95% of the time, and so on, result, that old greek guy's conundrum about going half the distance to a point each move and never getting there. So now I figure my 95% is as good as halfass harry's 120% so stop there and call it done.
    2019: returning from being sidelined with medical probs, crossing fingers worst is over, still in "armchair enthusiast" mode for time being.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Taping off varnish in preparation for paint

    Quote Originally Posted by Plyboy View Post
    I have this tendency towards perfectionism that used to prevent me from ever getting anything finished, because the first 95% took the first 95% of the time, and the next 2.5% the next 95% of the time, and so on, result, that old greek guy's conundrum about going half the distance to a point each move and never getting there. So now I figure my 95% is as good as halfass harry's 120% so stop there and call it done.
    One of the biggest challenges for me - doing it professionally - is doing only the level of work the client wants to pay for. Esp. when it comes to finishes. I justify my 'overdoing' by calling it 'advertising'. I don't really pay for advertising - and 95% of my clients come from referrals... so it must be working at least to some extent. OTOH... I've yet to be able to afford the boat I lust after, OR that villa in the S. of France... so maybe I'm still overdoing it

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