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Thread: Some boats don't float

  1. #1
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    Default Some boats don't float

    [IMc - Perhaps the kids would have done better without "adult" supervision.]

    Scouts group rescued in Emery County after 'ill-fated' Green River trip in homemade canoes
    By Jacob Klopfenstein, KSL.com | Posted - Jul 11th, 2019 @ 11:00am

    GREEN RIVER, Emery County — Two Boy Scout troops were rescued unharmed Wednesday after an “ill-fated” river trip in homemade canoes ended just several miles from the boat launch, authorities said.

    The group of more than 20 Scouts and leaders set off from Green River State Park on Wednesday afternoon in mostly homemade canoes that were fashioned out of PVC pipe and wrapped with a plastic tarp material, according to a Facebook post from Emery County Sheriff’s Office.



    The group, which was from Cedar City, planned to go 67 miles from the park to the Mineral Bottoms area just north of Canyonlands National Park, according to the post. However, their trip ended just 4 miles downstream.

    A sheriff’s sergeant responded to a call of a young man who had shown up at a farm distraught and needing assistance, according to the post. The sergeant then launched a sheriff’s department boat that was staged in Green River and headed to the state park boat ramp, where one of the Scout leaders was waiting.

    The Scout leader had sunk his canoe after just a few hundred yards but was able to get out of the river and get back to the boat ramp.

    Shortly after, a man who lives downriver arrived with three more Scouts and one of their leaders who had stopped their trip after having canoe problems, according to the post.

    Several other sheriff’s deputies proceeded down the river to find the rest of the Scouts and leaders. They found one Scout clinging to a tree about a mile downstream from the boat ramp, and he was able to float to the sheriff’s office boat using his life jacket, according to the post.

    Authorities located the rest of the Scouts and leaders further downstream. Sheriff’s officials offloaded the canoes, which were bogged down with gear, from the river, the post states.

    Authorities waited at the Crystal Geyser area several miles south of the state park until all members of the Scout group made it safely to the shore and were driven away from the area. The rescue lasted three hours total.

    Two scout groups were rescued unharmed in Emery County after an “ill-fated” river trip with homemade canoes ended just several miles from the boat launch on Wednesday, July 10, 2019, authorities said. (Photo: Emery County Sheriff's Office)
    Sheriff’s Sgt. Mitch Vetere, who has extensive experience on the Green River, said in the post that the boats had “no business being on the river,” especially because the river is currently flowing swiftly.

    It is running at 11,400 cubic feet per second as of Thursday morning, according to the U.S. Geological Survey WaterWatch. That is a level at which the river might be too high even for some experienced boaters with sturdy canoes, Vetere said in the post.

    Emery County Sheriff Greg Funk reminded people to do adequate research, know their limitations and be prepared while recreating on the rivers of Emery County.

    “We have had numerous river rescues over the years,” Funk said in the Facebook post. “It is fortunate that the canoe problems happened early in this trip where there is access to the river from the banks, rather than farther downstream with sheer canyon walls. The Green River is wide, the water is cold, and hypothermia can set in in a matter of minutes.”

    https://www.ksl.com/article/46592257...x73OgpokfZikpA

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Some boats don't float

    Hmmm — time to ad “prudent” to the Scout Law?

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Some boats don't float

    Hmmm — time to add “prudent” to the Scout Law?

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Some boats don't float

    Quote Originally Posted by moTthediesel View Post
    Hmmm — time to add “prudent” to the Scout Law?
    Nahhh... That's what the "Be Prepared" motto is for.

    I just think they took the "thrifty" part a bit far.
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
    -William A. Ward



  5. #5
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    Default Re: Some boats don't float

    I preferred to make my not-so-seaworthy creations free of adult supervision. Like the labor intensive dug-out that split on getting wet. Turns out that real dug-outs involved very sophisticated manipulation of the wood, much more than chop and launch.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Some boats don't float

    why would you launch any canoe into a river that is running that fast?
    "If you think you are too small to make a difference, try sleeping with a mosquito"

    -Dalai Lama

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Some boats don't float

    I've seen build a boat in 6 hours contests at Georgetown but these guys just paddle around the docks and across the harbor which is about 100 yards wide at this point. The water was still or flowing vary slowly.
    Will

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Some boats don't float

    Around here, they close the rivers, and anyone caught on them gets BUSTED!

    We we have two rivers around here that flow like MAD during snowmelt, and the Sheriffs are constantly training Swift water rescue... and recovery...

    Stay out of fast water.

    Peace,
    Robert

    P.S. Unless, of course, you work to it. And, even then, be careful, and use proper equipment...

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Some boats don't float

    Quote Originally Posted by amish rob View Post
    Around here, they close the rivers, and anyone caught on them gets BUSTED!

    We we have two rivers around here that flow like MAD during snowmelt, and the Sheriffs are constantly training Swift water rescue... and recovery...

    Stay out of fast water.

    Peace,
    Robert

    P.S. Unless, of course, you work to it. And, even then, be careful, and use proper equipment...
    Was out in Colorado a few weeks ago - went whitewater rafting on the Arkansas river. Was having a discussion in the raft with our guide about river conditions as we were unable to run the regular section of the river. In the last few years, the flow rate was 600-800 cubic feet per second. The state closes the regular section through the gorge when flow rates reach 3200 CFS. The flow rate the morning we went out on the water was 4700 CFS. It was wild on the water. The rapids were running Class IV to Class VI and we wound up portaging around the one Class VI rapid on the route. You'd be in a trough before a wave and the top of the next wave would be 2-3 feet above your head as you're sitting on the raft's side tube. Water was seriously COLD even with the wetsuits and booties that the raft guides supplied - some of the water was likely snow that morning. With air temperatures in the high 80's to mid 90's, it wasn't bad, really.

    Those PVC and fabric boats the Scouts built would have been toast from the get-go and really don't look structurally sufficient for even calm water, IMO.
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
    -William A. Ward



  10. #10
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    Default Re: Some boats don't float

    "Fun and adventure in the out of doors" is what the Boy Scouts are all about, and as a l-o-n-g-t-i-m-e former Scout Master who favored water adventure over hiking trail adventure (never having suffered the sort of misadventure described in the OP) I feel qualified to offer a couple of observations. First, the watercraft photographed seem to reflect worthy workmanship, however, I don't even like "tarps" for sails, let alone skin-on-frame hulls. Second, When we used to employ home-made watercraft for creek journeys, the camping gear was transported by road vehicles. Third, some strenuous testing at the launch site might have revealed weak points in the vessels at hand. The fast-flowing river question has already been noted above, however, my Troop once negotiated significant miles of rain-swollen creek (wadable depths) in a variety of watercraft that covered the gamut of 8x4 plywood sheets with several inner tubes lashed underneath to clever arrangements of a great many one-gallon milk jugs secured in-line on slender wooden poles running through the handles, incorporating aluminum and web strap chaise lounges for the rider. No fatalities were recorded. Adventure is always more fun in company with imagination.

    I have two grandkids presently in Scouting and I hope they enjoy plenty of adventure on their trails to Eagle Scout.
    Last edited by Nicholas Scheuer; 07-19-2019 at 12:57 PM.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Some boats don't float

    I went on a similar boy scout trip when young, in production canoes. I had taken the merit badge and knew how to paddle, and how to empty a swamped canoe using your buddy's boat before climbing back in. The wind and chop picked up as we headed out into the lake and the Scout Master of all people proceeded to flip his canoe. All us kids were just fine, but he sputtered and struggled and just could not get his boat righted and empty. We tried to teach him what we had practiced in previous days on the very same lake, but he didn't get it. Eventually he floated into shallow water and dragged his boat up the beach. Trip cancelled.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Some boats don't float

    Our Scout troop did plenty of canoe camping when I was a kid. We did 3-10 day trips depending on where we were in the training for a long trip. At one point, we had a troop project where every Scout made their own canoe paddle. We also ad some cedar strip boats that were hand made by members of troop as well as cedar and canvas canoes that were restored by troop members. We never had trouble with our boats or paddles, but we did experience some difficult weather/wave conditions on various trips. We never had a loaded canoe swamp or flip, but we did do some bailing on occasion. The only time we had a canoe flip, was when my dad and another one of the adults went out for a paddle and the wind came up on Lake George while they were out. In order to make the turn back into the dock, they needed to turn across the wind. When the wind was coming across the beam (and raising a few good sized waves), they flipped the boat. We could see them from shore and headed out in a second canoe were we did a canoe-over-canoe rescue. They chose not to get back into the boat, but swam ashore wearing their life jackets. We towed the canoe back to the dock - nobody the worse for the wear.
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
    -William A. Ward



  13. #13
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    Default Re: Some boats don't float

    I guess the boats were not inspected by the Coast Guard and given a Hull ID number.
    Life is complex.

  14. #14
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    Default

    Quite a few years ago now a bunch of scouts drowned on a local lake. It's a big lake, like 50 miles or so across, and shallow. Gets up a really nasty chop in a blow. Scout group out in canoes got caught in a blow.

    Sent from my CPH1851 using Tapatalk

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    I guess the boats were not inspected by the Coast Guard and given a Hull ID number.
    Yeah, those Hull ID numbers make all the difference when things get a bit gnarly.

    Sent from my CPH1851 using Tapatalk

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Some boats don't float

    Quote Originally Posted by amish rob View Post
    Around here, they close the rivers, and anyone caught on them gets BUSTED!

    We we have two rivers around here that flow like MAD during snowmelt, and the Sheriffs are constantly training Swift water rescue... and recovery...

    Stay out of fast water.

    Peace,
    Robert

    P.S. Unless, of course, you work to it. And, even then, be careful, and use proper equipment...
    Seems rather a shame, fast is where the fun is.



    What happened to that freedom thing?
    Creationists aren't mad - they're possessed of demons.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Some boats don't float

    Quote Originally Posted by P.I. Stazzer-Newt View Post
    Seems rather a shame, fast is where the fun is.



    What happened to that freedom thing?
    Well, 90% of the time, people come from all over TO paddle the fast water here. It’s nice whitewater, I hear.

    But, the 10% of the time when people die, it isn’t a shame to close the river. The flow rates become so high, and the river rises so far, it becomes a different beast.

    It isn’t if, at high water, but when, so officials wisely close them when conditions become too extreme.

    Peace,
    Robert

    Your “freedom” comment? Go stuff that, buddy. I don’t play that crap, so don’t bring it to me, dig?

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Some boats don't float

    Who gets to make the call?


    Not with a bong, but a whimper.
    Creationists aren't mad - they're possessed of demons.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Some boats don't float

    Quote Originally Posted by P.I. Stazzer-Newt View Post
    Who gets to make the call?


    Not with a bong, but a whimper.
    Likely some state agency that monitors the waterways. It is probably based on an arbitrary stream flow rate. In Colorado, the state closed travel on the Arkansas river through Royal Gorge at 3200 cubic feet per second of flow. The river was running at 4700 cubic feet per second.
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
    -William A. Ward



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