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Thread: Misstating the facts

  1. #1
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    Default Misstating the facts

    I caught a bit of Meet the Press yesterday, and a Republican made a comment Todd failed to correct.

    He claimed all these people in cages came here illegally. Todd failed to correct him.

    Coming here and asking for Asylum IS NOT ILLEGAL. They have broken NO law by coming here and asking for asylum.

    They are entitled to humane processing, and they may or may not be granted asylum.
    How do we form a mutiny? Our new captain is navigating poorly.

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    Default Re: Misstating the facts

    Trump says it's illegal and Trump is always right!

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    Default Re: Misstating the facts

    But, saying people came illegally is how you get people whose grandparents came her illegally, too, to get mad. Or is that just my family?

    It’s like high school.

    There is ALWAYS someone downhill for everyone else to pick on. You don’t have to be at the top to be okay. As long as you’re not on the bottom, and the kids on top know you by sight...

    Peace,
    American Idol

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    Default Re: Misstating the facts

    The armbands come next, right?


    Stephen King
    @StephenKing

    First, you stoke hatred and fear of minorities. Then you round them up and put them in camps. Next, you send out raiding parties to get those who have been driven into hiding. The armbands come next right?


    98.6K

    12:32 PM - Jul 14, 2019

    David G
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    Default Re: Misstating the facts

    It's not a misstatement. It's a blatant lie Republicans have repeated over and over to normalize their behavior. Misstatements are errors made in good faith. We all screw up. The "they are all illegal" is a blatant lie they repeat over and over. And it works because the base believes they are all illegal now.

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    Default Re: Misstating the facts

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Conway View Post
    It's not a misstatement. It's a blatant lie Republicans have repeated over and over to normalize their behavior. Misstatements are errors made in good faith. We all screw up. The "they are all illegal" is a blatant lie they repeat over and over. And it works because the base believes they are all illegal now.
    This is true. And if we "ALL" don't rise up and squash this "WE" are "ALL" guilty! Because we are "ALL" immigrants here from one Exodus or another.
    PaulF

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    Default Re: Misstating the facts

    Quote Originally Posted by John Smith View Post
    I caught a bit of Meet the Press yesterday, and a Republican made a comment Todd failed to correct.
    My wife and I watch the Sunday morning news shows. Perhaps if the news shows had people who told the truth, rather than people who do not.

    A simple comment by Todd at the beginning: We had a Republican (insert name) scheduled to appear, but he just told lies (list lies). So we will have a different speaker.

    Tape the shows an hour early.
    Life is complex.

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    Default Re: Misstating the facts

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    The armbands come next, right?


    Stephen King
    @StephenKing

    First, you stoke hatred and fear of minorities. Then you round them up and put them in camps. Next, you send out raiding parties to get those who have been driven into hiding. The armbands come next right?


    98.6K

    12:32 PM - Jul 14, 2019

    they have red MAGA hats
    "If you think you are too small to make a difference, try sleeping with a mosquito"

    -Dalai Lama

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    Default Re: Misstating the facts

    ^
    This.

    Armbands are passé. They are replaced today by logos on ball caps and t-shirts.
    "I trust it [Russia Today] more that many elements of the Western media, which has demonstrated a much greater incentive to lie, or censor.'" -- Sky Blue, 03/27/20

    "I don't take responsibility at all." -- Donald F. Trump, 03/13/20







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    Default Re: Misstating the facts

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    My wife and I watch the Sunday morning news shows. Perhaps if the news shows had people who told the truth, rather than people who do not.

    A simple comment by Todd at the beginning: We had a Republican (insert name) scheduled to appear, but he just told lies (list lies). So we will have a different speaker.

    Tape the shows an hour early.
    "news" shows have a checkered history, and I'm not sure what qualifies these days as a news show.

    You may remember the Swift Boat ads. For many weeks we had 'news' shows where a moderator sat between a Republican who told us the ads were true and a Democrat who told us they were not true.

    I wrote several networks and told them it was THERE JOB to tell us if those ads were true or not.

    Todd is a professional journalist. He could have, and should have, pointed out that asking for asylum is not a crime.

    John Stewart, on the Daily Show, on COMEDY CENTRAL, correct Gingrich when he made the shoe bomber an American citizen (he was British) in order to support a position that could only be supported if the shoe bomber was an American citizen.

    If the comedy show can do this, the real 'news' shows can.
    How do we form a mutiny? Our new captain is navigating poorly.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Misstating the facts

    Republicans lie, that's really all you need to know.

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    Default Re: Misstating the facts

    Republicans lie, that's really all you need to know.
    Yep, they do.

    And, here is what Politifact has to say about some prominent Democrats.

    Screen Shot 2019-07-15 at 9.46.14 PM.jpgScreen Shot 2019-07-15 at 9.46.41 PM.jpgScreen Shot 2019-07-15 at 9.47.01 PM.jpg

    All politicians lie. They are professional liars, in fact.

    Kevin

    Edit: President Trump's score:

    Screen Shot 2019-07-15 at 9.51.37 PM.jpg

    Kevin
    There are two kinds of boaters: those who have run aground, and those who lie about it.

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    Default Re: Misstating the facts

    ^
    So 49% of Trump's statements have been flat-out false. As opposed to 28% of Pelosi's statements, 26% of Schumer's statements, and 13% of Obama's statements.

    Add in the "mostly false" statements and Trump's total balloons to 70% while Pelosi's goes to 49%, Schumer's to 42%, an Obama's to 25%.

    Of course, compared to the two U.S. presidents, Pelosi's and Schumer's are relatively small sample sizes.

    I'd say Trump leads by a large margin.
    "I trust it [Russia Today] more that many elements of the Western media, which has demonstrated a much greater incentive to lie, or censor.'" -- Sky Blue, 03/27/20

    "I don't take responsibility at all." -- Donald F. Trump, 03/13/20







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    Default Re: Misstating the facts

    Guys, don’t shoot, I’m an Aussie.

    To enter a country and to claim asylum are distinct acts, at least in the rest of the world. So, one can enter lawfully, then claim asylum, or one can enter unlawfully and then claim asylum. I myself have entered the USA lawfully four times. I am yet to claim asylum.

    So, if one avoids the official ports of entry and sneaks into the country, is that not a violation of US law? This is obviously a distinct question from whether one claims, or intends to claim, asylum.

    What am I missing?

    Regards,
    John.
    http://fairmaid.blogspot.com.au/

    "It's dawning on me that I should have worked out the tumbler details more in advance, rather than rely on bluster and over confidence. But that's just silly." Jim Ledger.

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    Default Re: Misstating the facts

    People crossing the border are coming for work not asylum. We all sympathize and understand their reasons. Claiming asylum for most is a lie for a great majority, everyone knows it. As soon as their cross into Mexico, these Latin Americans can ask for asylum but choose not to. As soon as they make their asylum claim, most drift into the shadows and find work, life and love. Rooting out false asylum claims is like the much publicized ICE raids, they never come. That is the big lie everyone understands.
    Last edited by Ted Hoppe; 07-16-2019 at 09:09 AM.
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    Default Re: Misstating the facts

    ^
    So 49% of Trump's statements have been flat-out false. As opposed to 28% of Pelosi's statements, 26% of Schumer's statements, and 13% of Obama's statements.

    Add in the "mostly false" statements and Trump's total balloons to 70% while Pelosi's goes to 49%, Schumer's to 42%, an Obama's to 25%.

    Of course, compared to the two U.S. presidents, Pelosi's and Schumer's are relatively small sample sizes.

    I'd say Trump leads by a large margin.
    Just details, Tom.

    Someone lies to me, I no longer trust anything they say. In special circumstances, I may grant a second chance. May. But, mostly , once lied to, I no longer trust that person.

    The numbers above show a pattern of continuous lying. None of those people can be trusted, in my view.

    Kevin
    There are two kinds of boaters: those who have run aground, and those who lie about it.

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    Default Re: Misstating the facts

    ....

    Quote Originally Posted by Aquinian View Post
    Guys, don’t shoot, I’m an Aussie.

    If you don't want to get shot, I'd be careful about publicly admitting such a thing. There are some folks who are ignorant enough to suspect that might mean your some sort of Hispanic...

    To enter a country and to claim asylum are distinct acts, at least in the rest of the world. So, one can enter lawfully, then claim asylum, or one can enter unlawfully and then claim asylum. I myself have entered the USA lawfully four times. I am yet to claim asylum.

    OK

    So, if one avoids the official ports of entry and sneaks into the country, is that not a violation of US law? This is obviously a distinct question from whether one claims, or intends to claim, asylum.

    What am I missing?

    Do you want a list... or would a few samples do? Here... start with the Immigration Law that you could easily have Googled. The first article I came across --

    https://www.alllaw.com/articles/nolo...et-asylum.html

    Regards,
    John.
    David G
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    Default Re: Misstating the facts

    Quote Originally Posted by Breakaway View Post
    Just details, Tom.

    Someone lies to me, I no longer trust anything they say. In special circumstances, I may grant a second chance. May. But, mostly , once lied to, I no longer trust that person.

    The numbers above show a pattern of continuous lying. None of those people can be trusted, in my view.

    Kevin
    Well... THAT is stringent.

    And silly. Humans lie. Probably every person you know has lied to you. Do you trust No One??

    https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/b...ir-daily-lives

    The question is not reliable/not reliable. The question is HOW reliable. A relative question... not an absolute. It's further complicated by the nature of the lies told. One example: which is the worse lie... 'Yes, that hat looks good on you', or 'The Chinese have instigated a cyber-attack necessitating a nuclear launch'?

    So... given the structure and reality of politics today (maybe always?) all the incentives are for politicians to lie even more than you or your auntie. That is reflected in the graphs you presented.

    But the question then becomes... how MUCH do they lie. Do they lie about the big stuff? Do I trust her more... or less... than her opponent in the primary?
    David G
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    Default Re: Misstating the facts

    David, that article calls them illegals, it says that they have broken a law, or perhaps laws.

    It seems to be an explanation of relevant US law for “illegals” to aid them to apply for asylum, and offers to link them up with immigration attorneys.

    This thread appears to be predicated on the notion that calling them “illegal immigrants” is a lie. Again, what am I missing?

    Regards,
    John.
    http://fairmaid.blogspot.com.au/

    "It's dawning on me that I should have worked out the tumbler details more in advance, rather than rely on bluster and over confidence. But that's just silly." Jim Ledger.

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    Default Re: Misstating the facts

    Quote Originally Posted by Aquinian View Post
    David, that article calls them illegals, it says that they have broken a law, or perhaps laws.

    It seems to be an explanation of relevant US law for “illegals” to aid them to apply for asylum, and offers to link them up with immigration attorneys.

    This thread appears to be predicated on the notion that calling them “illegal immigrants” is a lie. Again, what am I missing?

    Regards,
    John.
    A distinction. And you're not the only one.

    As I understand it... crossing legally or illegally is not all that relevant to the process of asking for asylum. As the article points out, and you seem to have skimmed over, one can cross our border legally, then apply for asylum. Or cross illegally then apply. Or over-stay one's visa, then apply. All perfectly legit - when it comes to the asylum process.

    It's the president's arguments and mis-statements that set this whole thing up. By insisting on calling all asylum-seekers 'illegal'... he muddles things, and uses freighted language to smear them... inaccurately. It's not even, iirc, the folks who walk across the border (legally or illegally) who compromise the bulk of asylum-seekers. It's folks who come with visas - probably arrive by air - then apply, because they fear returning. And since neither crossing illegally, nor over-staying a visa, precludes then applying for asylum... some do.

    Are such folks 'illegal'? Yes, they are. As regards their immigration status. Are they allowed by law to then apply for asylum with no penalty? Yes, they are. So, no, they are not, as regards their asylum status. Because, by applying, they enter a legal status that is outside whatever immigration status they had prior to application. It holds their 'illegal immigration' status in abeyance until they asylum status is settled.

    Make sense?
    David G
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    Default Re: Misstating the facts

    Quote Originally Posted by Aquinian View Post
    Again, what am I missing?
    "crossing the border illegally" is a different crime than "being in the US illegally". Anyone can be guilty of the former if they "sneak into the country", the latter has various nuances. And the mango moron doesn't like nuance so he bs'es that asylum applicants are illegals.

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    Default Re: Misstating the facts

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    Well... THAT is stringent.

    And silly. Humans lie. Probably every person you know has lied to you. Do you trust No One??

    https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/b...ir-daily-lives

    The question is not reliable/not reliable. The question is HOW reliable. A relative question... not an absolute. It's further complicated by the nature of the lies told. One example: which is the worse lie... 'Yes, that hat looks good on you', or 'The Chinese have instigated a cyber-attack necessitating a nuclear launch'?

    So... given the structure and reality of politics today (maybe always?) all the incentives are for politicians to lie even more than you or your auntie. That is reflected in the graphs you presented.

    But the question then becomes... how MUCH do they lie. Do they lie about the big stuff? Do I trust her more... or less... than her opponent in the primary?
    All true, BUT when one in office, one running for office, or one working for either states somethings as FACT, we are entitled to it being one. The fact that we accept them lying is destroying our nation.
    How do we form a mutiny? Our new captain is navigating poorly.

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    Default Re: Misstating the facts

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Conway View Post
    "crossing the border illegally" is a different crime than "being in the US illegally". Anyone can be guilty of the former if they "sneak into the country", the latter has various nuances. And the mango moron doesn't like nuance so he bs'es that asylum applicants are illegals.
    We're dealing with a lot of people who didn't sneak in, but came in and looked for border patrol.
    How do we form a mutiny? Our new captain is navigating poorly.

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    Default Re: Misstating the facts

    Chuck Todd is lame
    If he ever drinks the brew of 10 tanna leaves, he will become a monster the likes of which the world has never seen



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    Default Re: Misstating the facts

    ^
    This.
    "I trust it [Russia Today] more that many elements of the Western media, which has demonstrated a much greater incentive to lie, or censor.'" -- Sky Blue, 03/27/20

    "I don't take responsibility at all." -- Donald F. Trump, 03/13/20







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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    Well... THAT is stringent.

    And silly. Humans lie. Probably every person you know has lied to you. Do you trust No One??

    https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/b...ir-daily-lives

    The question is not reliable/not reliable. The question is HOW reliable. A relative question... not an absolute. It's further complicated by the nature of the lies told. One example: which is the worse lie... 'Yes, that hat looks good on you', or 'The Chinese have instigated a cyber-attack necessitating a nuclear launch'?

    So... given the structure and reality of politics today (maybe always?) all the incentives are for politicians to lie even more than you or your auntie. That is reflected in the graphs you presented.

    But the question then becomes... how MUCH do they lie. Do they lie about the big stuff? Do I trust her more... or less... than her opponent in the primary?


    Dishonesty is like pregnancy: one either is or isn't.

    Kevin


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    There are two kinds of boaters: those who have run aground, and those who lie about it.

  27. #27
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    Default Re: Misstating the facts

    Everyone has told a lie at least once in their lifetime. Therefore everyone is dishonest. Because one either is or isn't.

    Simplicity is bliss.
    "I trust it [Russia Today] more that many elements of the Western media, which has demonstrated a much greater incentive to lie, or censor.'" -- Sky Blue, 03/27/20

    "I don't take responsibility at all." -- Donald F. Trump, 03/13/20







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    Default Re: Misstating the facts

    Quote Originally Posted by Breakaway View Post
    Dishonesty is like pregnancy: one either is or isn't.

    Kevin


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    Sure. Have it your way. Then, as I said, all humans are liars. Even Mother Teresa admitted to lying. So, as I asked before, you then trust No One?
    David G
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    Default Re: Misstating the facts

    I’m pretty sure Tump has lied at LEAST as many times as HRC.

    Peace,
    Bad Metric

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    Default Re: Misstating the facts

    I heard a rumor that even Rob lied on his application to purchase those SharpieGadgets... Said he'd never grow a beard.

    Oh... wait... <G>
    David G
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    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

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    Default Re: Misstating the facts

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    I heard a rumor that even Rob lied on his application to purchase those SharpieGadgets... Said he'd never grow a beard.

    Oh... wait... <G>
    Oh, no. I kicked and screamed for a few days.

    I hated the stupid thing.

    Until I tried it.

    Oh, crap. Look out, everyone, allegorical teaching moment! Duck, quick.

    Peace,
    Am Not!

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    Default Re: Misstating the facts

    Quote Originally Posted by John Smith View Post
    Todd is a professional journalist. He could have, and should have, pointed out that asking for asylum is not a crime.
    I think I agreed with that. I also suggested not putting lies on the air.
    Life is complex.

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    Default Re: Misstating the facts

    Quote Originally Posted by John Smith View Post
    I caught a bit of Meet the Press yesterday, and a Republican made a comment Todd failed to correct.

    He claimed all these people in cages came here illegally. Todd failed to correct him.

    Coming here and asking for Asylum IS NOT ILLEGAL. They have broken NO law by coming here and asking for asylum.

    They are entitled to humane processing, and they may or may not be granted asylum.
    Meanwhile today...

    Play the opening like a book, the middle game like a magician, and the endgame like a machine. – Rudolph Spielmann

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    Default Re: Misstating the facts

    Quote Originally Posted by Breakaway View Post
    Dishonesty is like pregnancy: one either is or isn't.

    Kevin


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    sounds like a variation of ‘there were good people on both sides ‘.
    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

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    Default Re: Misstating the facts

    Quote Originally Posted by George Jung View Post
    sounds like a variation of ‘there were good people on both sides ‘.
    Yes. Yes it does.
    David G
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