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Thread: OK - so what do we do? (Political)

  1. #1
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    Default OK - so what do we do? (Political)

    This past weekend has put me over the top. Between the racist-in-chief & the Rep. either lack of response or support, the lies about the border, trying to start a war (not way - correction added) with Iran, the ICE raids, etc. etc. anyone with an ounce of humanity is appalled.

    So - what do we do? Sure - get out the vote - but a whole lotta people are working against that.

    Take the senate. Same as the vote.

    I live in a solidly blue state & will continue to send a Dem & an Independent (Bernie) to the senate & a Dem to the House. The state will (unless something freezes over) go for "anyone but Trump" - but most likely the Dem candidate.

    I've contributed to various campaigns (McGrath, etc.) - but that seems weak. I can't afford to go knock on doors in the swing states.

    Anyone got any great ideas? I'm trying not to get overly dramatic about this, but I feel the future of my country is at stake.
    Last edited by Garret; 07-15-2019 at 06:28 PM. Reason: war - not way
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  2. #2
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    Default Re: OK - so what do we do? (Political)

    If you think the current system in place that sends red or blue's in to power will solve anything, I have some fantastic beachfront property in Arizona for you.

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    Default Re: OK - so what do we do? (Political)

    We recently signed up for Vote Forward: https://votefwd.org

    They have identified critical races in swing districts for local, state, and national elections. Once you have an account (takes 24-48 hours for approval), you can obtain a list of names and addresses of voters in those districts. You download and print a form letter, add a couple of personalized sentences, and put them in the mail a week before the election. It has been shown to increase voter turnout by around 4%. More details on their website. The only cost to you is postage.

    Here are some of the current districts that are available for letter writing:



    This video demonstrated the process. It was for the 2018 campaign, but the process remains the same.


  4. #4
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    Default Re: OK - so what do we do? (Political)

    Quote Originally Posted by SeanM26 View Post
    If you think the current system in place that sends red or blue's in to power will solve anything, I have some fantastic beachfront property in Arizona for you.
    Right.

    So O'Bama is just as bad as Trump.

    Got it.
    Rattling the teacups.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: OK - so what do we do? (Political)

    Swing Left is another "clearing house" that helps people take targeted action: https://swingleft.org

    This video outlines their strategy.


  6. #6
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    Default Re: OK - so what do we do? (Political)

    I smell a sock puppet.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: OK - so what do we do? (Political)

    A little more detail about Swing Left's strategy.


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    Default Re: OK - so what do we do? (Political)

    Could it be the ....squid?
    PaulF

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    Default Re: OK - so what do we do? (Political)

    For your question - I support, and act in concert with, Indivisible --

    https://indivisible.org/

  10. #10
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    Default Re: OK - so what do we do? (Political)

    I dunno, Garret. But while I firmly believe that the last thing needed is specious "thoughts and prayers," I equally firmly believe that actual prayer is the most effective starting place.

    Not vindictive prayers that God smites this or that person/group, or triumphalist prayers that God rides in on some white charger and overturns everything. Among other things - those are only simulated prayers; who I'm really "praying" to when I invoke such retribution.... is myself. My own hurt and malice.

    Genuine prayer is the act of gently removing oneself from the center of the picture, erasing the apparent ultimacy of one's own swirling feelings, and inviting God to use the situation to advance God's agenda.

    The whole "free will" gig means that God simply will not get those transformations underway absent an invitation ... though the other guy has no such scruples. But once invited, God seeps into the cracks in our minds/hearts/attitudes/prejudices ... and in the same crevices in our counterparts on the other side. And we start to see the intrinsic worth in each other. It is, frankly, the only way that durable reconciliation happens.

    In the meantime, we need to police ourselves to only use lawful means to resist evil, and to correct ourselves when we catch ourselves acting/thinking with disrespect. We become what we permit...
    Last edited by TomF; 07-15-2019 at 01:34 PM.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

  11. #11
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    Default Re: OK - so what do we do? (Political)

    Quote Originally Posted by SeanM26 View Post
    If you think the current system in place that sends red or blue's in to power will solve anything, I have some fantastic beachfront property in Arizona for you.
    Ladies and gentlemen, we have here a strong contender for the most fatuous statement in the Bilge yet this year. You really think that if the 'blue team' were in control of the Senate and the presidency, things wouldn't be much different? We'd still have plenty of problems, but we sure wouldn't be putting children in concentration camps. 'They're all alike' is total flaming hogwash, and if you really believe it with our current loathsome festering lump of a president, you're trying to unload that beachfront in Arizona because you sank your life savings into it.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

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    Default Re: OK - so what do we do? (Political)

    Represent US concentrates on diminishing the influence of big money and corporate interests in politics. There are local chapters in most states.


  13. #13
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    Default Re: OK - so what do we do? (Political)

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    Ladies and gentlemen, we have here a strong contender for the most fatuous statement in the Bilge yet this year. You really think that if the 'blue team' were in control of the Senate and the presidency, things wouldn't be much different? We'd still have plenty of problems, but we sure wouldn't be putting children in concentration camps. 'They're all alike' is total flaming hogwash, and if you really believe it with our current loathsome festering lump of a president, you're trying to unload that beachfront in Arizona because you sank your life savings into it.
    You make a lot of assumptions.

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    Default Re: OK - so what do we do? (Political)

    Quote Originally Posted by SeanM26 View Post
    You make a lot of assumptions.
    Assumptions based on rhetoric from the president and hid disciples maybe but, as you seem to be a newbie and behave like a Trump fan, assumptions tend towards being fact. You know, FACTS, something Republicans don't recognize.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: OK - so what do we do? (Political)

    Quote Originally Posted by SeanM26 View Post
    You make a lot of assumptions.
    All we have to go by is the words you said. Keith's reading comprehension level has always been pretty good. Maybe you didn't say precisely what you meant? You might clarify - if you want an actual conversation. If you don't, that's fine, you'll just be written off as not serious, eventually.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: OK - so what do we do? (Political)

    I am a Trump fan? News to me. I think all government is bloated and increasingly incompetent.

    Edit: before anyone thinks I am an anarchist, I believe governments to be a necessary evil. They can only do two things: restrict people's actions, and redistribute wealth. If those cannot be done through people volunteering to cooperate, the are done by force.
    Last edited by SeanM26; 07-15-2019 at 02:09 PM.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: OK - so what do we do? (Political)

    We have in Alabama a new 10 cent tax on gasoline to improve infrastructure that was not even whispered about until after last November's elections, and the photos of our governor high-fiving her fellow Republicans with smiles all around kind of stuck in my craw because it came across as some sort of a secret thing they had planned for before the elections. More recently, those same criminals have decided to pass a bill that will allow a third party to operate and collect tolls on our roads, including interstate highways. There is also a clause in there that this third party can set the penalties for not paying the tolls, including having your license revoked.

    The purpose of this is to help fund a new bridge across Mobile Bay. The proposal was for an $800-900 million dollar bridge, which turned into a 2.1 billion dollar bridge with observation decks, bike and pedestrian lanes, etc. The toll they have proposed is for the trip to cost $6 each way, $12 per round trip across the bay. For those of us who live in one county but work in the other, or say, people living in Pensacola and driving to Austal shipbuilding on the Mobile River, this would amount to over $2500 per year. A preliminary study showed that the net household income in Baldwin County is around $58,000, and this toll would affect you to the tune of around 5% of your income just to drive across the bay, something we do for free now. In the last couple of weeks over 25,000 people have signed up to voice their concern over this obvious money grab.

    If this state needs money why will it not allow a state lottery? Why? Because the Mississppi casinos and the Poarch Creek Indians (their word, not mine) pay lobbyists to make sure it doesn't happen. Thousands of Alabamians spend lottery ticket money in Tennessee, Georgia and Florida every week. And now, crazily enough, Mississippi has passed a lottery bill, plus has sports gambling now.

    We are last in almost every quality of life category, yet we don't need money? Our school teachers work in over-crowded classrooms and buy their own supplies, yet we don't need money? Public servants like fire safety and police who haven't had a decent raise in forever, but we don't need money? And then, to pay for this bridge, we are going to gouge hard working people of their earnings in what has to be one of the most obvious kickback schemes in the history of the country?

    Many times since I have been a member here people have posted stories about stupid laws or behaviors carried out by the lawmakers of this state. Many times I have been embarrassed to the point of humiliation by some of the stuff that goes on here, but it's my home. It's where I was born, where I was raised. It's where I will die, in all probability. But my children all live in other states far away and have no desire to move back here. And that makes me sad. Three very bright, well educated women, who know how to stand up for themselves and for others. Who know what's right and wrong and will do something about it, but they won't ever live in Alabama again because the place is so screwed up.

    I am not sure that our democracy hasn't failed us already. I think it has.

    Mickey Lake
    'A disciple of the Norse god of aesthetically pleasing boats, Johan Anker'

  18. #18
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    Default Re: OK - so what do we do? (Political)

    Let's get back to the OP

    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post
    Anyone got any great ideas? I'm trying not to get overly dramatic about this, but I feel the future of my country is at stake.
    Garret, the state where I live is as red as yours is blue, so I understand the feeling that there is nothing I can do at the local level to make a difference. The Vote Forward campaign seems to be a viable alternative to canvassing in swing states.

    Like you, I believe that the current political situations calls for action and it has prompted me to get out of my comfort zone. We knocked on doors in our neighborhood and invited people to a watch party for the first democratic debate. Half a dozen people whom we didn't know before showed up. All were interested in making a contribution of time and/or resources. We passed out a reference page with links to various organizations, local and national, like those I listed above. We contacted our local Democratic party and volunteered to be precinct captains. We met with our local state legislative representative to learn about which grass roots efforts are effective, and which ones are just spinning our wheels.

    Bottom line is that it's not business as usual, and those of us who may not have been politically active in the past need to step up.

    Organizations like Citizen University help to provide motivation and support for those who want to be agents of change.

    Step one is deciding to get engaged in the process.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: OK - so what do we do? (Political)

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Lesser View Post
    We recently signed up for Vote Forward: https://votefwd.org
    I think ideas like this, and other similar ideas, are quite refreshing.

    Being from a solidly blue state, I wondered what I could do, to help out... without having to necessarily tag myself to a specific candidate during the primary season.... and beyond that, what I might be able to do in the general election.

    One possibility, going down to a state which is in play, and critical, on the day before the election, and volunteering to drive people to the polls. For me, that state would probably be Pennsylvania. The key to winning in 2020, clearly, is in getting out the vote.... so that sort of help would probably be useful.
    "Reason and facts are sacrificed to opinion and myth. Demonstrable falsehoods are circulated and recycled as fact. Narrow minded opinion refuses to be subjected to thought and analysis. Too many now subject events to a prefabricated set of interpretations, usually provided by a biased media source. The myth is more comfortable than the often difficult search for truth."







  20. #20
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    Default Re: OK - so what do we do? (Political)

    Quote Originally Posted by bamamick View Post
    I am not sure that our democracy hasn't failed us already. I think it has.
    One thing history shows us is that democracy fails over and over again. It then picks itself up, patches the damage as well as possible, and tries again, sometimes getting it right, more or less. Much like people, since democracy is the rule of the people. No angels to be found, no saviors on this earth, just us. Democracy still beats all the other alternatives.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

  21. #21
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    Default Re: OK - so what do we do? (Political)

    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post
    This past weekend has put me over the top. Between the racist-in-chief & the Rep. either lack of response or support, the lies about the border, trying to start a way with Iran, the ICE raids, etc. etc. anyone with an ounce of humanity is appalled.

    So - what do we do? Sure - get out the vote - but a whole lotta people are working against that.

    Take the senate. Same as the vote.

    I live in a solidly blue state & will continue to send a Dem & an Independent (Bernie) to the senate & a Dem to the House. The state will (unless something freezes over) go for "anyone but Trump" - but most likely the Dem candidate.

    I've contributed to various campaigns (McGrath, etc.) - but that seems weak. I can't afford to go knock on doors in the swing states.

    Anyone got any great ideas? I'm trying not to get overly dramatic about this, but I feel the future of my country is at stake.
    I wish he would "start a way with Iran"; as in talking through the issues in good faith rather than just shutting them out and backing them into a corner. I think you meant "start a war with Iran" though.
    Will

  22. #22
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    Default Re: OK - so what do we do? (Political)

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    One thing history shows us is that democracy fails over and over again. It then picks itself up, patches the damage as well as possible, and tries again, sometimes getting it right, more or less. Much like people, since democracy is the rule of the people. No angels to be found, no saviors on this earth, just us. Democracy still beats all the other alternatives.
    Quite true.

    History also shows us that empires don't last. And that nations rise and fall.

    It also shows us the mechanism and the pattern for that rise & fall in the U.S.

    So far, we've managed to stop the drift toward dysfunction soon enough that we didn't experience a Weimar Republic scenario. But there are no guarantees that this time won't be the time we let it slide too far.

  23. #23
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    Default Re: OK - so what do we do? (Political)

    No guarantees ever.

    I'm beginning to think we should put up a statue to Carl Weiss, the guy who shot Huey Long. That would make a good alternate history exercise.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

  24. #24
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    Default Re: OK - so what do we do? (Political)

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    Ladies and gentlemen, we have here a strong contender for the most fatuous statement in the Bilge yet this year. You really think that if the 'blue team' were in control of the Senate and the presidency, things wouldn't be much different? We'd still have plenty of problems, but we sure wouldn't be putting children in concentration camps. 'They're all alike' is total flaming hogwash, and if you really believe it with our current loathsome festering lump of a president, you're trying to unload that beachfront in Arizona because you sank your life savings into it.
    Your phrase was "they're all alike." I have used a different phrase: The Republicans work for the 1%. The Democrats work for the 19% below the 1%.

    Since you mention concentration camps, I will simply state that the Obama Democrats had a time period during which they could have solved the immigration problem. Changed all the laws they thought needed to be changed. They did not.

    One of my pet claims is that the ACA could have provided free healthcare for all those below the median. But they did not want that. Another is that the economic boom of the Obama years made the 20% richest much richer than the bottom 80%. Democrats here praise that result. In fact, Norman continually posts a set of statistics that show the Democrats make the rich richer better than the Republicans do.

    I did not loath Obama, but he did no good for the bottom 50%.
    Life is complex.

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    Default Re: OK - so what do we do? (Political)

    as you said, TLT, life is complex. I think you will find that two of the issues you address were actually created by the GOP. The republicans never allowed a vote on a bipartisan bill to reform immigration and then demanded Obama do something, so he did with a executive order and they went ballistic with cries of it being illegal to do so.

    As for the ACA, It was altered from it's original plan to bring more GOP aboard, They all voted against it anyway. They had the votes to do a complete single payer system, but didn't because they wanted it to be bipartisan. They should have never trusted the GOP
    "If you think you are too small to make a difference, try sleeping with a mosquito"

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  26. #26
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    Default Re: OK - so what do we do? (Political)

    Quote Originally Posted by SeanM26
    I think all government is bloated and increasingly incompetent.

    Edit: before anyone thinks I am an anarchist, I believe governments to be a necessary evil. They can only do two things: restrict people's actions, and redistribute wealth. If those cannot be done through people volunteering to cooperate, the are done by force.
    Government can also wage war among other things it can do.

    You seem to have a pretty simple view of governance. Simplicity is seductive. I think it is a large part of Trump's appeal to so many. As H.L Mencken wrote in 1920: "There is always a well-known solution to every human problem—neat, plausible, and wrong."
    "Trump's authoritarianism is a feature not a bug." -- Sky Blue





  27. #27
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    Default Re: OK - so what do we do? (Political)

    A government isn't required to wage war. A government is required to declare war according to rules set by said government.

    My government is really good at redistributing other countries wealth (oil) by force.

  28. #28
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    Default Re: OK - so what do we do? (Political)

    Quote Originally Posted by SeanM26 View Post
    A government isn't required to wage war. A government is required to declare war according to rules set by said government.

    My government is really good at redistributing other countries wealth (oil) by force.
    Since 1941, there haven't been any wars just conflicts. The government's way around the problem. Seems to work!

  29. #29
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    Default Re: OK - so what do we do? (Political)

    Yes, a declared war has to abide by the Geneva Convention…….somewhat inconvenient for institutions like Gitmo………. It's all semi-legal semantics.
    What you 'do about it' is problematic when despite the evidence that whole legislatures are thoroughly corrupted people keep voting for the same parties and people.

    What you walk past you accept.
    Last edited by skuthorp; 07-15-2019 at 06:27 PM.

  30. #30
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    Default Re: OK - so what do we do? (Political)

    Thanks - I'll look into Swing Left & Vote Forward. I already support Represent US (& have since their inception). Represent Us stands for a lot of things that everyone should agree on: getting corruption & money out of politics in particular.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  31. #31
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    Default Re: OK - so what do we do? (Political)

    Quote Originally Posted by willmarsh3 View Post
    I wish he would "start a way with Iran"; as in talking through the issues in good faith rather than just shutting them out and backing them into a corner. I think you meant "start a war with Iran" though.
    I did misspell "war". I too wish he'd start a "way" with them. Actually - I wish he'd stuck with the original agreement - it was working.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  32. #32
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    Default Re: OK - so what do we do? (Political)

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    No guarantees ever.

    I'm beginning to think we should put up a statue to Carl Weiss, the guy who shot Huey Long. That would make a good alternate history exercise.
    Every Man a King

  33. #33
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    Default Re: OK - so what do we do? (Political)

    I don't understand why something hasn't already be done.
    I guess it is because 40% of the population of the USA actively support what Trump is doing, and there is another percentage that don't care what is happening.

    Face it, the USA is in support of this. It is what the majority (that get off their ass and vote) want.

    This is who (as a nation) you are.
    Allan of the Grove
    "never send a ferret to do a weasel's job.."

  34. #34
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    Default Re: OK - so what do we do? (Political)

    I would vote for an Eisenhower Republican in a flash.

  35. #35
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    Default Re: OK - so what do we do? (Political)

    Quote Originally Posted by bamamick View Post
    We have in Alabama a new 10 cent tax on gasoline to improve infrastructure that was not even whispered about until after last November's elections, and the photos of our governor high-fiving her fellow Republicans with smiles all around kind of stuck in my craw because it came across as some sort of a secret thing they had planned for before the elections. More recently, those same criminals have decided to pass a bill that will allow a third party to operate and collect tolls on our roads, including interstate highways. There is also a clause in there that this third party can set the penalties for not paying the tolls, including having your license revoked.

    The purpose of this is to help fund a new bridge across Mobile Bay. The proposal was for an $800-900 million dollar bridge, which turned into a 2.1 billion dollar bridge with observation decks, bike and pedestrian lanes, etc. The toll they have proposed is for the trip to cost $6 each way, $12 per round trip across the bay. For those of us who live in one county but work in the other, or say, people living in Pensacola and driving to Austal shipbuilding on the Mobile River, this would amount to over $2500 per year. A preliminary study showed that the net household income in Baldwin County is around $58,000, and this toll would affect you to the tune of around 5% of your income just to drive across the bay, something we do for free now. In the last couple of weeks over 25,000 people have signed up to voice their concern over this obvious money grab.

    If this state needs money why will it not allow a state lottery? Why? Because the Mississppi casinos and the Poarch Creek Indians (their word, not mine) pay lobbyists to make sure it doesn't happen. Thousands of Alabamians spend lottery ticket money in Tennessee, Georgia and Florida every week. And now, crazily enough, Mississippi has passed a lottery bill, plus has sports gambling now.

    We are last in almost every quality of life category, yet we don't need money? Our school teachers work in over-crowded classrooms and buy their own supplies, yet we don't need money? Public servants like fire safety and police who haven't had a decent raise in forever, but we don't need money? And then, to pay for this bridge, we are going to gouge hard working people of their earnings in what has to be one of the most obvious kickback schemes in the history of the country?

    Many times since I have been a member here people have posted stories about stupid laws or behaviors carried out by the lawmakers of this state. Many times I have been embarrassed to the point of humiliation by some of the stuff that goes on here, but it's my home. It's where I was born, where I was raised. It's where I will die, in all probability. But my children all live in other states far away and have no desire to move back here. And that makes me sad. Three very bright, well educated women, who know how to stand up for themselves and for others. Who know what's right and wrong and will do something about it, but they won't ever live in Alabama again because the place is so screwed up.

    I am not sure that our democracy hasn't failed us already. I think it has.

    Mickey Lake
    Alabama hasn’t raised it’s gas tax since 1992. This 10 effing cent raise will take them from one of the lowest fuel tax states to the middle of the range for the country. The federal gov’t needs to raise fuel taxes 25 cents so as to continue supporting states like Alabama who can’t pay their way.

    https://www.al.com/news/2019/02/10-c...d-to-know.html
    Last edited by LeeG; 07-15-2019 at 08:55 PM.

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