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  1. #1
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    Default Evil socialised medical care

    So, after a couple of days of niggly chest pain, and feeling a bit light headed today as well, Dr Google told me not to be an arse, and get it checked out. F**k, f**k, f**k, f**k!
    Anyway, three hours, an ECG, the most comprehensive blood test I've ever had, and assorted other tests - the doc was confidently able to tell me that it definitely wasn't a cardiac problem.
    Cost me $90, at an after-hours clinic. Damn that socialised health care!

    Pete
    Last edited by epoxyboy; 07-13-2019 at 04:56 AM.
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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Evil socialised medical care

    Big fan of socialized medicine! Two open heart surgeries in May last year. Cost to me was zero. I have macular degeneration so I have injections every two months. The drugs cost 3K but I pay $ 12.22 plus an admin fee of $ 50.00. A friend in Florida went blind from the same condition because she couldn’t afford treatment.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Evil socialised medical care

    Quote Originally Posted by epoxyboy View Post
    Cost me $90, at an after-hours clinic. Damn that socialised health care!

    Pete
    meh, a similar visit would have cost me about twenty bucks; of course Kat and I have an insurance policy between the two of us valued at about $8K per year. . .


    the above was meant to be sarcastic

    Good to know youíre doing fine. I had one of those scares not long ago due to a post surgery complication. Trouble breathing, weak, tightness in chest, mega headache. went to a trauma center, I had never been to one before it was crazy. Docís asking me questions, nurse checking my bp; nurse turns to doc says, ď200 over 180Ē. Doc says, ď that explains the headache ď

    thanks
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

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    Default Re: Evil socialised medical care

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    meh, a similar visit would have cost me about twenty bucks; of course Kat and I have an insurance policy between the two of us valued at about $8K per year.
    Try more like $10K. I donít have my pay stub in front of me, but, if memory serves, I pay around $170 per a month in before tax dollars to cover us. The company pays several times that.
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    Default Re: Evil socialised medical care

    200 over 180 sounds a bit scary. I have been checking my bp daily since I got out of the Heart Institute and I freak out if it is above 135. This morning it is 111/65.

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    Default Re: Evil socialised medical care

    Would have cost me zero, but I pay $310 a month in premiums to get to that state. Medicare is not cheap, but given that my medical bills last year were $200,000+ I am OK with the premiums.

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    Default Re: Evil socialised medical care

    mine is normally in the 130/80 range
    that day sure got my attention though
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

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    Default Re: Evil socialised medical care

    The cost/return on my health insurance and Medicare so far have been WAY WAY out of whack. Of course at age 75, that could change tomorrow. But to this point I have been subsidizing the rest of you sickos all my life.

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    Default Re: Evil socialised medical care

    End to end oscopy in March and top end oscopy this week, they had the nerve to charge me five bucks a pop for parking.

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    Default

    Would have cost me hundreds, that's after a $1450/month insurance premium.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Evil socialised medical care

    That 90 bucks was it, we spend zip on health insurance.

    Pete
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    Default Re: Evil socialised medical care

    Did I ever tell you about when I broke my femur.
    Hospital stay, X-rays, Surgery, physio, ambulances back and forth, medication.
    Cost? All covered by the NHS, nothing to pay at point of delivery. If I could not find street parking near the hospital I might have paid £1.50 to park in the hospital car park.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Evil socialised medical care

    Peters biggest cost for his brain surgery was the parking, or so I remember he posted.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bob winter View Post
    Big fan of socialized medicine! Two open heart surgeries in May last year. Cost to me was zero. I have macular degeneration so I have injections every two months. The drugs cost 3K but I pay $ 12.22 plus an admin fee of $ 50.00. A friend in Florida went blind from the same condition because she couldn’t afford treatment.
    That's more than sad. It's inhumane. Health care for the wealthy/employed. Nice to know all the rich white guys here have good cover. Makes me feel all warm and soft inside.

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    Default Re: Evil socialised medical care

    2016, had a heart attack and my only cost was $900.00 for 35 min. $14000 helicopter ride.

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    Default Re: Evil socialised medical care

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Y View Post
    That's more than sad. It's inhumane. Health care for the wealthy/employed. Nice to know all the rich white guys here have good cover. Makes me feel all warm and soft inside.

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    Bob’s Canadian, so is entitled to the same care whether rich, poor, blue or green.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Evil socialised medical care

    We pay an ambulance premium of under $A100 a year which covers all ambulance matters, including aircraft and boats.

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    Default Re: Evil socialised medical care

    Quote Originally Posted by epoxyboy View Post
    So, after a couple of days of niggly chest pain, and feeling a bit light headed today as well, Dr Google told me not to be an arse, and get it checked out. F**k, f**k, f**k, f**k!
    Anyway, three hours, an ECG, the most comprehensive blood test I've ever had, and assorted other tests - the doc was confidently able to tell me that it definitely wasn't a cardiac problem.
    Cost me $90, at an after-hours clinic. Damn that socialised health care!
    The evil part is you think it cost you $90.

    In January or February I ad 2 strokes. One in my sleep left me with a blind spot in my vision. The one the next night caused me to call 911 for a ride to the hospital. 2 days and 2 nights of care. They did not find the cause. (They did find some minor damage in my brain from the strokes, but it is all now resolved.)

    I paid a couple hundred dollars. Medicare paid $30K. Medicare was able to pay because I and many others paid premiums to allow Medicare to have the money to do so.

    Had I not had insurance, I would not have gone to the hospital and the outcome would have been the same. One might say that the $30K was wasted.
    Life is complex.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Evil socialised medical care

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    The evil part is you think it cost you $90.

    In January or February I ad 2 strokes. One in my sleep left me with a blind spot in my vision. The one the next night caused me to call 911 for a ride to the hospital. 2 days and 2 nights of care. They did not find the cause. (They did find some minor damage in my brain from the strokes, but it is all now resolved.)

    I paid a couple hundred dollars. Medicare paid $30K. Medicare was able to pay because I and many others paid premiums to allow Medicare to have the money to do so.

    Had I not had insurance, I would not have gone to the hospital and the outcome would have been the same. One might say that the $30K was wasted.

    hippie socialism

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Evil socialised medical care

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    The evil part is you think it cost you $90.

    In January or February I ad 2 strokes. One in my sleep left me with a blind spot in my vision. The one the next night caused me to call 911 for a ride to the hospital. 2 days and 2 nights of care. They did not find the cause. (They did find some minor damage in my brain from the strokes, but it is all now resolved.)

    I paid a couple hundred dollars. Medicare paid $30K. Medicare was able to pay because I and many others paid premiums to allow Medicare to have the money to do so.

    Had I not had insurance, I would not have gone to the hospital and the outcome would have been the same. One might say that the $30K was wasted.
    Oh, I know full well that my taxes payed the bulk of the true cost. I could have gone to the hospital A&E, and then my out of pocket would have been zero, and the entire cost would have been picked up by the taxpayer.
    That option is open to anyone in NZ, whether they pay taxes or not. Here, we don't have make the horrid decision that seeking medical help is simply not an affordable option, due to the lack of insurance. That people in the US consider this healthcare model to be a bad thing is beyond bizarre.

    Pete
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  21. #21
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    Default Re: Evil socialised medical care

    Quote Originally Posted by epoxyboy View Post
    Oh, I know full well that my taxes payed the bulk of the true cost.

    That option is open to anyone in NZ, whether they pay taxes or not. Here, we don't have make the horrid decision that seeking medical help is simply not an affordable option, due to the lack of insurance. That people in the US consider this healthcare model to be a bad thing is beyond bizarre.
    Bundling healthcare into the general taxes hides who is actually pays for healthcare. I would like those in the bottom 50% to get healthcare paid for by those in the top 50%.

    I think you have the common view of why people don't get healthcare. I think it is often different. For many going without a couple days pay due to getting healthcare is an economically difficult choice.
    Life is complex.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    Bundling healthcare into the general taxes hides who is actually pays for healthcare. I would like those in the bottom 50% to get healthcare paid for by those in the top 50%.

    I think you have the common view of why people don't get healthcare. I think it is often different. For many going without a couple days pay due to getting healthcare is an economically difficult choice.
    Around here, those close to the bottom DO have their healthcare paid by those close to the top.

    For people in most jobs here, going without a couple of days pay due to getting healthcare is not a problem, because they have paid sick leave. Sadly, it is no longer an almost universal benefit.

    By the way, I've spent most of my life self-employed in one way or the other so I've effectively been subsidising those who had paid sick leave, even when I was earning very little. That's cool, the fact that I missed out is no reason for them to miss out. The high GDP per capita, low national debt and good national health stats show that it can work. And I find that going to places without socialised medicine creeps me out; I gladly pay more to see fewer people struggling with their life.
    Last edited by Chris249; 07-16-2019 at 05:59 AM.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris249 View Post
    Around here, those close to the bottom DO have their healthcare paid by those close to the top.

    For people in most jobs here, going without a couple of days pay due to getting healthcare is not a problem, because they have paid sick leave. Sadly, it is no longer an almost universal benefit.
    It is not clear where "around here" is. Also, near the bottom is not the same as those in the bottom 50%.

    For people with low paying jobs, even missing one day may cause financial difficulties.
    Life is complex.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    It is not clear where "around here" is. Also, near the bottom is not the same as those in the bottom 50%.

    For people with low paying jobs, even missing one day may cause financial difficulties.
    Fair call, but both of us have been around here long enough I thought we'd have a fair knowledge of where most regulars live.

    "Around here" is Australia.

    There seems to be no reason why exactly 50% should be the mark that divides those who are subsidised from those who pay the subsidy. There seems to be no reason why those in, say, the middle 40% should basically break even while the top 20% (or 30%, or 11.9895734623895% or whatever) pay for the bottom X percent.

    Yes, we know that some people don't have paid sick leave but as I noted, the point is that you can have societies in which paid sick leave is the norm.

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Evil socialised medical care

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris249 View Post
    There seems to be no reason why exactly 50% should be the mark that divides those who are subsidised from those who pay the subsidy. There seems to be no reason why those in, say, the middle 40% should basically break even while the top 20% (or 30%, or 11.9895734623895% or whatever) pay for the bottom X percent.
    Actually there are good reasons. Certainly arbitrary reasons. Economists make broad distinctions among the poor, middle class, and rich. Their divisions between between the economic classes vary widely. I simply took the most "liberal" of their rages. Placing as many in the poor group - those below the median, as possible and the fewest in the rich group - those above twice the median. And I include unrealized gains and other adjustments to income that many ignore. I am even willing to adjust for age.

    I don't know who you think should pay for government provided services, but I will offer my view. If the consensus is that people at or below the median (or whatever level they choose) have enough income to pay for government services, then those above that level should not complain when their income above that level is taxed at 100%.

    In any case, your comment about "near the bottom" seems to be a bit conservative for most people in the US who think those with incomes well above the median have economic problems and need help with their medical costs.
    Life is complex.

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    Default Re: Evil socialised medical care

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    It is not clear where "around here" is. Also, near the bottom is not the same as those in the bottom 50%.

    For people with low paying jobs, even missing one day may cause financial difficulties.
    Chris is in Australia. Good place, nearly as good as New Zealand where I am.

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    Quote Originally Posted by epoxyboy View Post
    Oh, I know full well that my taxes payed the bulk of the true cost. I could have gone to the hospital A&E, and then my out of pocket would have been zero, and the entire cost would have been picked up by the taxpayer.
    That option is open to anyone in NZ, whether they pay taxes or not. Here, we don't have make the horrid decision that seeking medical help is simply not an affordable option, due to the lack of insurance. That people in the US consider this healthcare model to be a bad thing is beyond bizarre.

    Pete
    I'd point out too, that out tax rates are not particularly onerous, and that the system does give us choices of where and by whom we get our treatment.
    That plus universal superannuation ( non contributory retirement pension, everyone gets that, whether rich or poor, whether they've worked all their lives or not at all) and a subsidised retirement savings scheme to top that up.

    Social democracy works.

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  28. #28
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    Default Re: Evil socialised medical care

    Quote Originally Posted by john welsford View Post
    That plus universal superannuation ( non contributory retirement pension, everyone gets that, whether rich or poor, whether they've worked all their lives or not at all)
    So the government pays old people. Why not pay young people?
    Life is complex.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    So the government pays old people. Why not pay young people?

    Why not? Because young people are still in their most productive years, by the very nature of being young people.

    Put another way, who do you want driving 18 wheelers and delivering food to supermarkets? The 35 year old with 20/20 vision and lightening fast reflexes with stamina and energy to burn, or the 84 year old who still needs to work with his cataracts, nominal eyesight, slower reaction time, a dodgy hip, and needs an afternoon nap a little after lunch time.
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  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin T View Post
    Why not? Because young people are still in their most productive years, by the very nature of being young people.

    Put another way, who do you want driving 18 wheelers and delivering food to supermarkets? The 35 year old with 20/20 vision and lightening fast reflexes with stamina and energy to burn, or the 84 year old who still needs to work with his cataracts, nominal eyesight, slower reaction time, a dodgy hip, and needs an afternoon nap a little after lunch time.
    Well, in exchange for their pension the 84 year olds could ride shotgun on the 18 wheelers, sharing the driver's amphetamines, keeping the kids awake with annoying tales of how good things used to be, and making sure the driver gets rests by demanding they pull over at every public bathroom. Win-win!

  31. #31
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    Default Re: Evil socialised medical care

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    So the government pays old people. Why not pay young people?
    The government is an instrument of the people.
    The people pay old people, and chip in to pay for healthcare, and all the other things that the people consider important to the safety and well being of their neighbours.
    There is nothing wrong with everyone getting together and helping each other out and maybe benefiting from that safety net when they need it too.

    Why do Americans have such a hard time with that?

    And, when it comes to healthcare it keeps the service level high and the costs down.
    American's, individually, spend more money on healthcare that anyone else - no surprise. But the American government also spends more on healthcare per capita, than any other government. The USA gets hit twice for what other countries only pay once - because of a blind clinging to not paying for stuff for your neighbour......

    The American healthcare system is the poster child of the limitations of the 'market'.
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  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    So the government pays old people. Why not pay young people?
    There are a number of countries experimenting with just that, a universal basic income.

    John Welsford
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  33. #33
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    Default Re: Evil socialised medical care

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    The evil part is you think it cost you $90.

    In January or February I ad 2 strokes. One in my sleep left me with a blind spot in my vision. The one the next night caused me to call 911 for a ride to the hospital. 2 days and 2 nights of care. They did not find the cause. (They did find some minor damage in my brain from the strokes, but it is all now resolved.)

    I paid a couple hundred dollars. Medicare paid $30K. Medicare was able to pay because I and many others paid premiums to allow Medicare to have the money to do so.

    Had I not had insurance, I would not have gone to the hospital and the outcome would have been the same. One might say that the $30K was wasted.
    Glad to hear you are better, but you sound as though you think insurance is a bad thing. The only real differences between a national system & private insurance are: 1) it's spread over a greater # of people, 2) overhead costs seem to be lower - mostly due to lack of profits being built in & 3) people are not turned away for capricious reasons.

    So - of course a healthy person subsidizes one with a heart attack. A driver with no accidents subsidizes one who has an accident. Should we stop auto insurance? Of course that comparison brings up a question: why is it that auto insurance is a competitive market & health insurance is not?
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post
    So - of course a healthy person subsidizes one with a heart attack. A driver with no accidents subsidizes one who has an accident. Should we stop auto insurance? Of course that comparison brings up a question: why is it that auto insurance is a competitive market & health insurance is not?
    Under the ACA young poor healthy people subsidize the old rich sick.

    There are 2 large differences between car insurance and health insurance. First, for the most part - ignoring no-fault issues, car insurance covers damage you do to others. Health insurance covers damage you do to yourself. Second, health insurers have the ability to look at chronic or hereditary conditions and charge based on risk. No one with chronic or hereditary conditions wants that. No one without those those conditions want them to be ignored.

    Prior to the ACA, insurance markets health insurance was competitive. The problem was that group policies charged premiums based on the sickest employees. Everyone paid the rate that the sickest employee's risk determined. Healthy individuals could often get policies for 1/10th the cost. But if your employer had a group plan, everyone paid a much higher rate.
    Life is complex.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    The evil part is you think it cost you $90.

    In January or February I ad 2 strokes. One in my sleep left me with a blind spot in my vision. The one the next night caused me to call 911 for a ride to the hospital. 2 days and 2 nights of care. They did not find the cause. (They did find some minor damage in my brain from the strokes, but it is all now resolved.)

    I paid a couple hundred dollars. Medicare paid $30K. Medicare was able to pay because I and many others paid premiums to allow Medicare to have the money to do so.

    Had I not had insurance, I would not have gone to the hospital and the outcome would have been the same. One might say that the $30K was wasted.
    It's bizarre that you think it's evil that we have a more efficient system whereby we all put in a little bit.

    By the way, my wife and I subsidise a bunch of other people. So what, we can afford it and we're happy to help.

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