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Thread: 1964 Broom Viking restoration project.

  1. #1
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    Default 1964 Broom Viking restoration project.

    IMG_3721.jpg
    A couple of years ago I was given this boat by a client.
    It had paint starting to peel off the hull, which looked like it had been painted on to disguise a multitude of sins.
    So I decided to start stripping it, one thing and another delayed me in continuing until now as I intend to restore it to its former glory.

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    Default Re: 1964 Broom Viking restoration project.

    It should look like this
    IMG_0486.jpg

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    Default Re: 1964 Broom Viking restoration project.


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    Default Re: 1964 Broom Viking restoration project.

    This is how the hull looks at the moment.
    Would you replace the whole of the plywood hull or patch it ?
    It looks to me like it would be simpler to do the whole thing but as a novice I would like any opinions please.
    IMG_3720.jpg

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    Default Re: 1964 Broom Viking restoration project.


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    Default Re: 1964 Broom Viking restoration project.

    IMG_3725.jpg
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    Default Re: 1964 Broom Viking restoration project.

    Yea I recon the bottom is de lamming and probably has a touch of the bad spore thing doin .
    Be sure to give the side planking, frames ,keel and floors a passing grade before taking her apart too far.
    Straighten out any hook or distortion in the bottom. Sometimes amateurs spend ALL their resource on the deck cosmetic, only to have a boat that is unsafe or non performing at 30/35 mph.
    Can we assume this is a cool old British boat that is loved by all ?
    bruce

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    Default Re: 1964 Broom Viking restoration project.

    Thanks for the response Bruce. Im not up with the phrases you uses so not really sure what you meant as Im a complete novice at this. I am in the construction business so do have practical skills so I'm not phased by it.

    Can anyone recommend any books that are relevant to this project?

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    Default Re: 1964 Broom Viking restoration project.

    I think my plan will be to order some 9mm marine ply and carefully remove the bottom of the hull.
    Its been copper nailed so Im not entirely sure how i am going to remove them.
    I will then use the pieces from the hull as a pattern for the new marine ply, should i reuse the current nail holes ? Should i fill the old nail holes and attach elsewhere? Also i have noticed between the ply and the frame there appears to be thin strips of wood to fill any voids where they meet, i am not sur how you can see this when its being put back together?

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    Default Re: 1964 Broom Viking restoration project.

    Imagine a dimple ,three eighths inch deep and two feet around, on the bottom of the boat. At planing speed , it can act as a suction cup.Create wonky steering .
    I think these strips would be for fine fairing of the frames.
    That dimple is"hook".

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    Default Re: 1964 Broom Viking restoration project.

    Quote Originally Posted by wizbang 13 View Post
    Imagine a dimple ,three eighths inch deep and two feet around, on the bottom of the boat. At planing speed , it can act as a suction cup.Create wonky steering .
    I think these strips would be for fine fairing of the frames.
    That dimple is"hook".
    Great explanation thank you.

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    Default Re: 1964 Broom Viking restoration project.

    Wrapping 9mm ply around that bow section won't be the easiest thing. Is there a keelband present?

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    Default Re: 1964 Broom Viking restoration project.

    Quote Originally Posted by John Meachen View Post
    Wrapping 9mm ply around that bow section won't be the easiest thing. Is there a keelband present?
    Yes I believe there is if that’s what is shown in the last photo above.
    Until I unscrew it I’m not sure what to expect.

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    Default

    Another term would be "hogging" which is a reverse bend in the bottom.

    You probably would have to fill the old nail holes with epoxy & toothpicks. start over with new screw locations assuming the frames are solid.

    Do you have pictures of the whole boat? What's the deck like, or has it all been removed?

    Consider instead of trying to use the plywood hull panels as patterns, lay of heavy paper cardboard or even thin plywood on the hull and try and make patterns that way. it's pretty hard to remove a plywood panel intact,

    Nails either come out easily or resist all efforts! A small cat claw driven under the head and a piece of sheet metal like a putty knife underneath the cat claw when you pry it, another option is a hacksaw blade between the frame and the panel. Leave the old nails in the frame, or not.
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

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    Default Re: 1964 Broom Viking restoration project.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shovelhands View Post
    Yes I believe there is if that’s what is shown in the last photo above.
    Until I unscrew it I’m not sure what to expect.
    I have a suspicion that you will find de-zincified brass screws and a similarly afflicted keelband and beneath that some bevelled plywood plank edges.

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    Default Re: 1964 Broom Viking restoration project.

    Thanks Denise that’s exactly the sort of advice I need.
    I didn’t think to take photos of the deck and top of the boat. The deck is delaminating and there is a profiled piece of what I think is ash timber as a detail on the bow of the deck which has decayed too. So all of this will need to be replaced too.
    This is the only photo of the boat when I first got it that I could find.
    IMG_0582.jpg

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    Default Re: 1964 Broom Viking restoration project.

    Quote Originally Posted by John Meachen View Post
    I have a suspicion that you will find de-zincified brass screws and a similarly afflicted keelband and beneath that some bevelled plywood plank edges.
    Thanks John I will take plenty of photographs of what I find as it comes apart (and goes back together) for reference.

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    Default Re: 1964 Broom Viking restoration project.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shovelhands View Post
    You are going to have to carefully remove the nails fastening the next strake into the stem, doing no damage so that you can refasten it when you put the bottom back on. How are the laps fastened? Please post a picture of the inside of the joint between the bottom and the next strake.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: 1964 Broom Viking restoration project.

    Quote Originally Posted by John Meachen View Post
    I have a suspicion that you will find de-zincified brass screws and a similarly afflicted keelband and beneath that some bevelled plywood plank edges.
    Thats exactly what was found.
    IMG_3748.jpg

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    Default Re: 1964 Broom Viking restoration project.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    You are going to have to carefully remove the nails fastening the next strake into the stem, doing no damage so that you can refasten it when you put the bottom back on. How are the laps fastened? Please post a picture of the inside of the joint between the bottom and the next strake.
    I cut out an area of the hull to try and understand how it was constructed.The laps are fastened with copper nails that have been riveted on the inside of the hull.
    IMG_3749.jpg

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    Default Re: 1964 Broom Viking restoration project.

    IMG_3762.jpg
    I crawled under and inside the boat for this picture.
    What i wasn't expecting to see where some of the 'Frame' pieces at the bow aren't attached physically to the keel piece.
    (My terminology is probably a million miles off!)

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    Default Re: 1964 Broom Viking restoration project.

    I will mark up some pictures and post to show what i mean.

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    Default Re: 1964 Broom Viking restoration project.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shovelhands View Post
    I cut out an area of the hull to try and understand how it was constructed.The laps are fastened with copper nails that have been riveted on the inside of the hull.
    IMG_3749.jpg
    Well that looks more like a timber (fame) than lap, but it probably answers my question. When taking the panel out grind off the roves on the inside and carefully punch out the copper nails. Then when refastening use a nail one gauge thicker than you took out. That will ensure tightness in the old holes. It may be easier to remove the next strake up as well to give you room to fight the new bottom panels into place. They should then slip back into place easily if you have bevelled the lands accurately.
    As you are a self confessed novice, I suggest buying or borrowing this book. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Clinker-Boa.../dp/0713636432
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: 1964 Broom Viking restoration project.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shovelhands View Post
    IMG_3762.jpg
    I crawled under and inside the boat for this picture.
    What i wasn't expecting to see where some of the 'Frame' pieces at the bow aren't attached physically to the keel piece.
    (My terminology is probably a million miles off!)
    Does not matter, the ply is securely attached and is not going to split. The boat probably does not need timbers being planked with ply.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: 1964 Broom Viking restoration project.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    Does not matter, the ply is securely attached and is not going to split. The boat probably does not need timbers being planked with ply.
    Pardon me for my ignorance but do you mean that the ply is strong and stable enough not to need the timbers?
    The timbers further down the boat away from the bow are continuous port to starboard.

  26. #26
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    Default Re: 1964 Broom Viking restoration project.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shovelhands View Post
    Pardon me for my ignorance but do you mean that the ply is strong and stable enough not to need the timbers?
    The timbers further down the boat away from the bow are continuous port to starboard.
    Glued lap ply boats do not have timbers. Yours is old enough to be transitional between solid real tree wood clinker and glued ply construction. The timbers will help to resist movement at the laps as the boat flexes in a sea way. Go carefully when removing planking in case the laps are glued as well as nailed and clinked on roves.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: 1964 Broom Viking restoration project.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    Well that looks more like a timber (fame) than lap, but it probably answers my question. When taking the panel out grind off the roves on the inside and carefully punch out the copper nails. Then when refastening use a nail one gauge thicker than you took out. That will ensure tightness in the old holes. It may be easier to remove the next strake up as well to give you room to fight the new bottom panels into place. They should then slip back into place easily if you have bevelled the lands accurately.
    As you are a self confessed novice, I suggest buying or borrowing this book. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Clinker-Boa.../dp/0713636432
    No hesitation I bought the book. I have a lot to learn.

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    Default Re: 1964 Broom Viking restoration project.

    If the Strakes are glued as well. Is there a technique to free them ? Could I run a flat multi tool blade down the joint.
    Is there an argument that the sensible way forward would be to replace all the strakes as many of them do have rot,damage and delamination.

    This is the nail size I’ve been removing
    IMG_3759.jpg
    Can anyone recommend a uk supplier of new coooer nails and roves?

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    Default Re: 1964 Broom Viking restoration project.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shovelhands View Post
    No hesitation I bought the book. I have a lot to learn.
    Good shout. It is about building from scratch, but you need that knowledge to recognise the details that you will be uncovering and why they are important. It will also be of some assistance in putting her back together and in making or collecting the tools that you will need for that journey.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: 1964 Broom Viking restoration project.

    I am sure the book will tell me but when they would have originally built boats like this would they have nailed it all and then put the roves on after or as they were going along?
    Im thinking i probably need to raise mine a little higher to be able to work on the inside aswell as the outside at the same time.

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    Default Re: 1964 Broom Viking restoration project.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    Good shout. It is about building from scratch, but you need that knowledge to recognise the details that you will be uncovering and why they are important. It will also be of some assistance in putting her back together and in making or collecting the tools that you will need for that journey.
    Thanks a lot Nick ! I really appreciate your shared knowledge.

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    Default Re: 1964 Broom Viking restoration project.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shovelhands View Post
    If the Strakes are glued as well. Is there a technique to free them ? Could I run a flat multi tool blade down the joint.
    Is there an argument that the sensible way forward would be to replace all the strakes as many of them do have rot,damage and delamination.

    This is the nail size I’ve been removing
    IMG_3759.jpg
    Can anyone recommend a uk supplier of new coooer nails and roves?
    Replace everything that is suspect. Take her apart carefully as the bad bits will still be of use as templates for the new.
    If she us glued the glue may be failing by now, try using an old table knife with a very thin blade to crack the glue joint.
    Nails and roves from
    https://shop.classicmarine.co.uk/fasteners.html
    obr /> https://www.toplicht.de/en/shop/boot...gel-und-nieten
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

    The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web
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  33. #33
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    Default Re: 1964 Broom Viking restoration project.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shovelhands View Post
    If the Strakes are glued as well. Is there a technique to free them ? Could I run a flat multi tool blade down the joint.
    Is there an argument that the sensible way forward would be to replace all the strakes as many of them do have rot,damage and delamination.

    This is the nail size Iíve been removing
    IMG_3759.jpg
    Can anyone recommend a uk supplier of new coooer nails and roves?
    Replace everything that is suspect. Take her apart carefully as the bad bits will still be of use as templates for the new.
    If she is glued the glue may be failing by now, try using an old table knife with a very thin blade to crack the glue joint.
    Nails and roves from
    https://shop.classicmarine.co.uk/fasteners.html
    or
    https://www.toplicht.de/en/shop/boot...gel-und-nieten

    You live at Henley. There must be boatbuilders near you, ask them where they source their materials or whether they can supply you.
    Last edited by Peerie Maa; 07-08-2019 at 04:09 PM.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

    The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web
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    Default Re: 1964 Broom Viking restoration project.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shovelhands View Post
    I am sure the book will tell me but when they would have originally built boats like this would they have nailed it all and then put the roves on after or as they were going along?
    Im thinking i probably need to raise mine a little higher to be able to work on the inside aswell as the outside at the same time.
    It depends on what tradition. Some complete the hull and then hire a helper to dolly up when they rove, others work single handed and clink each strake as they go, easy to do as you are only reaching 6 inches down into the hull. You will need a helper to dolly up as you rove. It may be easier to set her on a strongback to straighten the hook in the keel and re plank. Then flip her the right way up to clink the nails in one go.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  35. #35
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    Default Re: 1964 Broom Viking restoration project.

    A multi tool could be very useful as you might be able to preserve the shape of some of the parts and thus provide yourself with good patterns.Does the prospect of cutting good scarph joints cause any alarm?

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