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  1. #1
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    Default Updating my bilge, from 2006 repairs are still dry

    Except for the rain, I get no water coming in.
    I cant do much about the rain.

    Back in 2006, I reframed most of the entire boat. I used PT pine carefully selected and cut from larger pieces.
    All those frames have been great. I also upped the bronze screw size one size so they are thicker square drive screws.
    The PL as you can see is still tight in the seams, and the entire bilge area has remained strongly held together, about as good as the day I did it almost 15 years ago.

    I was checking the filthy aft bilge, and I discovered rotten tops on 3 floors on the port side last year. I let it go till this month. Had to pull out the cruisair heat pump to get access back there.

    I used a chisel, and cut down the rotten oak areas and used a sawzall blade held in my hand the scrape down the surface till it was relatively flat. Treated the oak with boric acid mixed in 90% rubbing alcohol, then wire brushed the surface. Then cut some tight grain PT pine one inch tall wood strips and screwed and glued the strips back down to rebuild the tops of the three floors. The worst damaged floors were the ones that had been notched out for the generator. None of the damage seemed to affect the ability of the floor to function as intended. The glue was of course PL premium mixed with some sawdust, and the screws were SS square drive deck screws.

    AfteI repaired the floors, I pressure washed the bilge, and sucked it dry with the we vac. Then I painted it all with Bulls eye 123 white primer, which I have found to be an excellent wood primer. Being water based, it will suck into moist wood whereas an oil primer would be repelled from damp wood. And you know bilge tend towards dampness.

    https://photos.app.goo.gl/hEPJhCcJMy7CPTqKA

    Also uploaded a few pictures to the forum. And the bilge was filthy dirty, covered in muck from sawdust and leaves that rotted in there over many years.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Updating my bilge, from 2006 repairs are still dry

    I covet your bilge. 😎

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Updating my bilge, from 2006 repairs are still dry

    Adding that if you use any alcohol on the wood, make sure it is entirely evaporated away as alcohol destroy s the ability of polyurethane to cure. In my case, I waited till the next day. But you could use a heat gun.

    Alcohol dissolves enough boric acid to be a much better carrier than plain water, and maybe also sterilizes wood fungus. It certainly absorbs well into wood, or even wet wood. A cheap source for boric acid is white roach powder.

    If you use water as a carrier, you can dissolve boric acid into the water by making the water very hot. Boric acid kills wood fungus.
    My thinking is the boric acid will soak into the wood, and its not going to be able to get out of the wood as it is sealed in there with the waterproof glue and also the primer paint.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Updating my bilge, from 2006 repairs are still dry

    Quote Originally Posted by sdowney717 View Post
    Alcohol dissolves enough boric acid to be a much better carrier than plain water, and maybe also sterilizes wood fungus. It certainly absorbs well into wood, or even wet wood.
    How about ethylene glycol as the carrier? Any experience?

    Cheers,
    John.
    http://fairmaid.blogspot.com.au/

    "It's dawning on me that I should have worked out the tumbler details more in advance, rather than rely on bluster and over confidence. But that's just silly." Jim Ledger.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Updating my bilge, from 2006 repairs are still dry

    Quote Originally Posted by Aquinian View Post
    How about ethylene glycol as the carrier? Any experience?

    Cheers,
    John.
    Of course the green antifreeze mixed with borates is an excellent rot killer and preservative, but not if your going to be glue repairing the wood. It will just make things not glue well.
    In 2014, I had some mahogany side planking rot where the old seam compounds had let in water. Instead of replacing the entire plank I cut back to sound wood, treated the cut areas with alcohol mixed with the white roach podwer, and glued in new mahogany pieces with PL glue, and they have been perfect. I dug out all the old cracking topside caulking and little cotton strings from every plank seam as it was letting in the rain, and you could see through the plank edges.
    I cleaned with some hand sanding the edges, the primed the wood with Bulls eye 123 latex primer and caulked with DAP Dynaflex 230 white.
    Been dry and perfect ever since. Doing that leaves the plank edges nicely defined on the hull and it looks good that way rather than filled flat and then it gets little cracks in the paint.

    The DAP caulk turns into a hard rubbery stuff that sticks well to the primed wood. And can be sanded too. It shrinks as it cures, so you may have to lay some more in the seam, depending on how it works for you. It takes a good week to fully set if its hot and dry oputside.

  6. #6
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    Interesting. I'm needing to get some 3 week old masking tape and its gooey residue off my rubbing strakes. Above them is recently applied 2 part polyurethane. The strakes will be painted with epoxy, then epoxy primer, then polyurethane undercoat then polyurethane gloss. People have suggested various things to help remove the tape, including what we call methylated spirits, I think you call it alcohol. Petrol, olive oil, WD40, baby oil.

    I'm left wondering which will have least or no negative effects on the fairly new polyurethane and the soon to be applied paints. Nothing is simple!

    Sent from my CPH1851 using Tapatalk

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Updating my bilge, from 2006 repairs are still dry

    Alcohol is a real good solvent. If the masking tape was made for painting like colored blue or green, then it usually comes off easily even if left on for a long long time, my experience.
    I use the 90% rubbing alcohol from walmart.

  8. #8
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    I used green, was happy to pay more for good stuff. Turns out it's rubbish.

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    Default Re: Updating my bilge, from 2006 repairs are still dry

    Will be fun follow

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Updating my bilge, from 2006 repairs are still dry

    Your results are impressive. Why did you switch from Sanitred to PL Premium?


    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Y View Post
    I used green, was happy to pay more for good stuff. Turns out it's rubbish.

    Sent from my CPH1851 using Tapatalk
    It looks so much like salad that I am tempted to recommend oil and vinegar. Maybe unscented lamp oil without the vinegar. The lamp oil has been excellent for PSA adhesive residues. (odorless mineral spirits, perhaps a little heavier, but lighter than mineral oil)

    Once the tape adhesive gets dry and brittle, the only thing that has worked for me was letting it weather for 10 years, but I don't think that is a time frame you can live with. Isopropyl is a milder solvent than methylated spirits, so it would be safer for the paint. I would go easy on any solvent until the paint has had a week to cure.
    Management is the art of counting beans. Leadership is the art of making every being count. --Joe Finch

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Updating my bilge, from 2006 repairs are still dry

    Quote Originally Posted by MN Dave View Post
    Your results are impressive. Why did you switch from Sanitred to PL Premium?
    I actually did not switch. When I first repaired the boat with Sanitred, I used the PL Premium to caulk all the seams, so I used it all along.

    I dont buy any more sanitred as I dont think its worth the price. I have been using Loctite PL products, the Premium construction glue and the Black roof and flashing to coat parts of the hull, (reminds me of sikflex 291, or black 5200) except its cheaper, did a lot of that on the 2014 haulout. And I can buy the PL locally in small amounts.

    I also sense the Sanitred is maybe an inferior product for wood, it has less yield and can come loose from wet wood. Back in 2014, all the sanitred I ripped off the oak keel, came off easy, but on the mahogany planks it was much better adhered.
    Today knowing what I know I would not have used any Sanitred, just used the Black PL mixed with some milled FG fibers to coat the hull and use PL glue for the wood. Of course also lots of screws too.

    All the black PL roof and flashing poly has stayed on the hull everywhere I used it. I get in the water and scrape off the barnacles in the summer.

    The 2014 haulout repairs
    https://photos.app.goo.gl/4wRTA5feuw4mR6vr8

    included a recoated black PL keel pic
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by sdowney717; 07-08-2019 at 08:48 AM.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Updating my bilge, from 2006 repairs are still dry

    Quote Originally Posted by sdowney717 View Post
    I dont buy any more sanitred as I dont think its worth the price. I have been using Loctite PL products, the Premium construction glue and the Black roof and flashing to coat parts of the hull, (reminds me of sikflex 291, or black 5200) except its cheaper, did a lot of that on the 2014 haulout. And I can buy the PL locally in small amounts.
    Interesting. Another PU that you might want to look at is ZinsserŽ WATERTITEŽ Polyurethane Sealant for Concrete and Masonry. It is more rubbery than PL Premium. Menards keeps it with the Zinsser paints, not the caulks, so you might have to ask where they hide it. The concrete sealers tend to be more resistant to swelling when submerged. It is a Rustoleum product, not Henkel Loctite. At $4.50 per 10oz tube (12 pack $54 Newport News Home Depot) it is slightly cheaper than 10oz PL 3X but doesn't come in the less expensive 28oz tube.

    You can also buy thinned self-levelling concrete sealer that would save you the mess of thinning the construction adhesive. Home Depot sells a Sika and a Loctite PL version in 28 oz tubes.

    EDIT: Looking at the self leveling stuff again. I bought the generic stuff that Menards had in the larger tube. It is too soft and not as strong as the Zinsser Watertight. Sika might be better.
    Last edited by MN Dave; 07-09-2019 at 01:12 PM.
    Management is the art of counting beans. Leadership is the art of making every being count. --Joe Finch

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Updating my bilge, from 2006 repairs are still dry

    Quote Originally Posted by MN Dave View Post
    Interesting. Another PU that you might want to look at is ZinsserŽ WATERTITEŽ Polyurethane Sealant for Concrete and Masonry. It is more rubbery than PL Premium. Menards keeps it with the Zinsser paints, not the caulks, so you might have to ask where they hide it. The concrete sealers tend to be more resistant to swelling when submerged. It is a Rustoleum product, not Henkel Loctite. At $4.50 per 10oz tube (12 pack $54 Newport News Home Depot) it is slightly cheaper than 10oz PL 3X but doesn't come in the less expensive 28oz tube. You can also buy thinned self-levelling concrete sealer that would save you the mess of thinning the construction adhesive. Home Depot sells a Sika and a Loctite PL version in 28 oz tubes.
    I found it was saving me a lot of money to buy the 28 oz tubes, but the prices of these things has crept up about $1 over he years for the PL Premium. I honestly love the Black PL type of product mixed with milled FG finers as an underwater coating. It was like frosting a cake. And having the milled fibers allowed me to more easily smooth it. I was able to use a wire wheel on a drill and it took off ridges cleanly. And you could see the FG fibers sprkling in the sunlight. It has made for a very tough stretchy rubber coating. I mixed in the milled fibers from bow to about 10 feet back as a test, and the rear of the boat I used it plain. I was sort of thinking if I ever hit something bow on, and I dont go very fast, the plank might break but the reinforced Black PL coating might limit the damage to just cracked wood. I think most likely it would just glance off the coated planking.

    The Black PL is very abrasive wear proof coating. On my dock, the finger pier had this bolt end sticking out and it scratched my white paint but for the longest time did not penetrate the black PL coating. I eventually made a board which doubles as a hand railing to cover the bolt up. We would get windy storms and it would push the boat over and bolt end just happened to be a little longer than what my rub rail could handle.
    And my big fender was no help, it would just bee pushed aside.


    Here you can see the black PL under the paint undamaged.
    You can watch the video and see how it scratched up the side of the boat.
    The teak deck is off the boat as I rebuilt the underlaying plywood deck and repainted the side of the boat and cabin.
    https://photos.app.goo.gl/mBeK4mUSMy1hNxbH7
    Attached Images Attached Images

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by MN Dave View Post
    Your results are impressive. Why did you switch from Sanitred to PL Premium?


    It looks so much like salad that I am tempted to recommend oil and vinegar. Maybe unscented lamp oil without the vinegar. The lamp oil has been excellent for PSA adhesive residues. (odorless mineral spirits, perhaps a little heavier, but lighter than mineral oil)

    Once the tape adhesive gets dry and brittle, the only thing that has worked for me was letting it weather for 10 years, but I don't think that is a time frame you can live with. Isopropyl is a milder solvent than methylated spirits, so it would be safer for the paint. I would go easy on any solvent until the paint has had a week to cure.
    I reckon its been close to a week now. Anyway, I came down to the boat with half a dozen things to try, and found petrol was best. All done now.

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  15. #15
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    Default Re: Updating my bilge, from 2006 repairs are still dry

    Masking tape is terrible stuff if left on.
    I buy the stuff that says it can be left on for 3 days and remove it within 3 days.
    If the job didn't done within that period, I will re-tape it and go another 3 days.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Updating my bilge, from 2006 repairs are still dry

    That above hull picture was from fall of 2014. I had done a very extensive reframing in 2006 using PT wood frames screwed into the massive oak floors on the boat, and everyone I replaced has been perfect.
    A few oak frames in the deep bilge, I did not replace under the engines becuase at the time they were fine. but I noticed couple years ago one had decayed near the keel. I should have done every single one back in 2006.

    But I know haw to fix it on another haulout, cut the frames a couple feet up from the keel, remove the bronze screws and slam out the bad frame piece. Cut a new piece of frame wood, paint it, and slam it in there, and use 3 inch long bronze screws that will go through the plank, frame and into the floor. Or not as good, use the standard length screws to attach the frame to the plank only. But even with it degraded, because of the way my hull is sealed, no leaks can occur. Even old oak frames that seem ok give them a few more years and they wont be ok, especially on an old egg harbor.

    When Egg Harbor made the boat, they used some steel nails and screws to hold the frames to the floors, but not as many as you would think they should have used.
    Last edited by sdowney717; 07-08-2019 at 09:23 AM.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Updating my bilge, from 2006 repairs are still dry

    Made a new wood base for the CruisAir heat pump today. I used some wood salvaged from the curb about 5 yrs ago from a neighbors old deck. Really great 2x4 PT wood they tossed a bunch I saved it all.
    It is super dense grain and heavy pine wood.

    I also glued the butt ends and used up some nails that had been used on the boat by the OEM for filler pieces on the gunwale which I rebuilt a couple yrs ago in the slip when I redid all the aft teak decking and rotted plywood underneath that teak.
    OEM pretty much guaranteed by their construction methods a rotted hulk of a boat after a few decades.

    Since these nails are ribbed and real long they should hold fine in end grain. I pre drilled using a smaller diameter drill the holes. And even so was not easy to drive in these nails.

    The support piece will screw onto 2 oak floors. My plan is a small piece screwed in the Douglass fir side stringer to hold down one side of this, other side will screw into floor. sideways at an angle on its edge . This way I can position the frame and even slide it forward and back.
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    Last edited by sdowney717; 07-08-2019 at 10:05 AM.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Updating my bilge, from 2006 repairs are still dry

    I have the new cruisair base finished. Much better than the crappy piece of 3/4 ply that was there before.
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  19. #19
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    Default Re: Updating my bilge, from 2006 repairs are still dry

    Loaded up and ready to go for tomorrow's reinstall.
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  20. #20
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    Default Re: Updating my bilge, from 2006 repairs are still dry

    Its installed and working fine. With boat sitting in full sun and 95*F, after 3 hours of running, interior of boat was at 78*F.
    I do all this myself, believe it or not and dont use R22. And not going to tell you what I do, cause I dont want to get razzed.
    Amp draw for this 16k unit is 10 amps, low side at 90 outside temp is set to 60 psi, high side is at 210 psi, and it still uses mineral oil.

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Updating my bilge, from 2006 repairs are still dry

    I also got gen working today by installing the waterlift muffler, of course carb needed cleaning and plugs regapped.

    I got rid of the 1/2 inch plywood which used to lay across the floors, it is a big problem if you have to get in there to do anything, plus it promotes rot by keeping it wetter. That idea was a 1970 OEM eggharbor thing.

    Now at next haulout, I can remove the struts as I have easy access to the bronze bolts. I plan to change the prop shaft bushings.
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