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Thread: Peapod Design Decisions

  1. #1
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    Default Peapod Design Decisions

    Hi all, thrilled to have just joined the forums. My partner and I are gearing up to build a boat together - my first, her second. Her first build was a combo shanty boat/river raft/Mississippi show boat built out of The Apprenticeshop in Rockland, ME. I'm simply handy, and looking forward to building something we can trailer and sail here on the west side of Los Angeles. We're also thinking it might be fun to build a small prototype/model of whatever we choose, just to prep us a bit.

    At the moment, we are debating the benefits of the Arch Davis 12' Maine Peapod versus Doug Hyland's Beach Pea or Benjamin River Pea. We're both liking how much instruction/structured learning the Arch Davis plans seem to include, since this will be a big undertaking for us, though we would like to ideally have a slightly larger boat. Still need to re-measure the garage workshop tomorrow to make sure a 13' or 13' 6" build would work in the space, at which point life may make the choice for us! The boat would be kept on a trailer in the garage, and moved back and forth when we want to take it out, so that might be a factor as well. I think unfortunately due to building space we're limited to 14-15'ish max. We'd like to be able to sail nicely, as well as row, but imagine we'd be doing more sailing.

    Regardless, I'd love to hear about folks experiences building any of these designs, particularly from a relatively beginner perspective. Thanks in advance

    KG
    Last edited by KG_302; 07-05-2019 at 11:29 AM.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Peapod Design Decisions

    I have no experience with either one of these fine looking craft but you may also want to consider the slightly larger Mantinicus Double Ender. In my mind, this is one of the most fetching boat designs ever and is on my boat building bucket list.

    http://www.duck-trap.com/2002mde.html

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Peapod Design Decisions

    One of the Hewes kits for the Hylan versions will give you a great start on your project. Highly recommended.

    Not to interfere with your query but was this project your partner's? https://carrierpigeonstudio.com/projects/

    My college roommate in the seventies got together with some of his Vietnam vet buddies, built a raft and floated from Hannibal to NOLA one summer, retracing Huck Finn and Jim's escape. Two of the guys aboard went on to be the driving forces behind the building of the Vietnam Veterans Memorial in Washington, DC. A tragic story for one of the friends: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_P._Wheeler_III
    Last edited by rbgarr; 07-04-2019 at 02:12 AM.

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    Default Re: Peapod Design Decisions

    Just finished doing a double ender talkat a Downeast TSCA event. The working double enders are all 15' plus. Look for David Cockey's study on you toob. The recreational boats are all small 13' and under. Doug Hylan's design will serve better than a 12 footer if you plan to spend time together in the boat.
    Ben Fuller
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    Default Re: Peapod Design Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by Dusty Yevsky View Post
    I have no experience with either one of these fine looking craft but you may also want to consider the slightly larger Mantinicus Double Ender. In my mind, this is one of the most fetching boat designs ever and is on my boat building bucket list.

    http://www.duck-trap.com/2002mde.html
    Thanks Dusty - we checked out the Mantinicus, it's lovely looking and I think the direction we ultimately would have preferred, but unfortunately 16' is beyond the capacity of our little city garage

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Peapod Design Decisions

    Does the kit entail that they precut and send you all the bits and pieces? Not sure we need that level of hand holding (for the cost), but we will take another look.

    And yes, Michi Zeebee is hers Thank you for sharing the story of your roommate and his friends, terrible end for one of them, but very cool to hear about others building rafts on the Mississippi. I will pass it along to her, she'll be thrilled to know someone on here has heard about her project.

    Quote Originally Posted by rbgarr View Post
    One of the Hewes kits for the Hylan versions will give you a great start on your project. Highly recommended.

    Not to interfere with your query but was this project your partner's? https://carrierpigeonstudio.com/projects/

    My college roommate in the seventies got together with some of his Vietnam vet buddies, built a raft and floated from Hannibal to NOLA one summer, retracing Huck Finn and Jim's escape. Two of the guys aboard went on to be the driving forces behind the building of the Vietnam Veterans Memorial in Washington, DC. A tragic story for one of the friends: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_P._Wheeler_III

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Peapod Design Decisions

    Some general details about Hewes kits here, but for a particular kit you need to inquire about them directly: http://www.hewesco.com/cnc-marine/boatkits.html

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    Default Re: Peapod Design Decisions

    Thanks for the David Cockey tip Ben, I'll give that a watch now - great resource. Do you happen to know if there is a link to the presentation David gives so I could study the pods and their charts?

    Just took measurements of our garage again, and we're unfortunately quite space limited - 14' is going to be the max the space can handle, and that leaves no space for being able to walk around the boat, so I'm leaning toward the Hylan 13' 6 Benjamin River, which will allow us to bring friends out occasionally, and regularly sail the 2 of us comfortably. 12' did feel quite tiny, though I liked how much instruction the Arch Davis came with. May come back and edit this once I finish watching this video and have changed my tune!


    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Fuller View Post
    Just finished doing a double ender talkat a Downeast TSCA event. The working double enders are all 15' plus. Look for David Cockey's study on you toob. The recreational boats are all small 13' and under. Doug Hylan's design will serve better than a 12 footer if you plan to spend time together in the boat.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Peapod Design Decisions

    I built a 13' Doug Hylan Beach Pea a couple of years ago and have been very happy with it. Woodenboat magazine published a 3-part article with very detailed building instructions in issues #133, #134, and #135. Doug includes reprints of those articles with his plans, which are also very detailed. Not a difficult build.

    https://www.woodenboat.com/boat-launchings/bud

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/jdless...57648895644963

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Peapod Design Decisions

    The only one I have experience with is the Beach Pea, which I found to be a good rowboat but not a good sailboat.

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    Default Re: Peapod Design Decisions

    Have you checked out CLC's Peapod - Lighthouse Tender? Plans aren't currently available, but I think they are imminent.

    https://www.clcboats.com/shop/boats/...er_Peapod.html

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    Default Re: Peapod Design Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by johnw View Post
    The only one I have experience with is the Beach Pea, which I found to be a good rowboat but not a good sailboat.
    Mine was built only for rowing, which it does beautifully. I have heard others voice concern about the sailing version.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainSkully View Post
    Have you checked out CLC's Peapod - Lighthouse Tender? Plans aren't currently available, but I think they are imminent.

    https://www.clcboats.com/shop/boats/...er_Peapod.html
    That's a nice looking boat, as is the new 10' Tenderly dinghy. The CLC designs have really evolved nicely.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Peapod Design Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Lesser View Post
    I built a 13' Doug Hylan Beach Pea a couple of years ago and have been very happy with it. Woodenboat magazine published a 3-part article with very detailed building instructions in issues #133, #134, and #135. Doug includes reprints of those articles with his plans, which are also very detailed. Not a difficult build.

    https://www.woodenboat.com/boat-launchings/bud

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/jdless...57648895644963
    Great looking pod Dave! Good to know that the plans come with reprints of the building instructions and that they're quite detailed.


    Quote Originally Posted by johnw View Post
    The only one I have experience with is the Beach Pea, which I found to be a good rowboat but not a good sailboat.
    This is very good to know, thanks John - we're looking for more sailing, less rowing. Had been leaning this way, but hearing it's not a great sailboat makes in less appealing. Good to know what you've heard about it's sailability too Dave.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainSkully View Post
    Have you checked out CLC's Peapod - Lighthouse Tender? Plans aren't currently available, but I think they are imminent.

    https://www.clcboats.com/shop/boats/...er_Peapod.html
    Hadn't seen this one yet!! This looks like it could be a great option, seems to be very solid both sailing and rowing, which is ideal for our desired use. Great find, thanks.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Peapod Design Decisions

    For sailing, you'll need harder bilges than most of these designs have. I'd go with the lighthouse peapod if you want to sail.

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    Default Re: Peapod Design Decisions

    For max length of boat, you may consider to place it corner to corner instead of front to back in the garage. You may also put the stem or stern right at the garage door, and open the door when you need space to work on it or move to the other side of the boat.

    /Mats

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  16. #16
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    Default Re: Peapod Design Decisions

    Limited to 13+' and wanting to sail? Go with a transom-sterned boat, not a peapod. More room and will sail better most likely. But fwiw, here's a Beach Pea under sail:DSCN0753.jpg

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    Default Re: Peapod Design Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by johnw View Post
    For sailing, you'll need harder bilges than most of these designs have. I'd go with the lighthouse peapod if you want to sail.
    A very good point, the CLC build is the front runner now for sure. Have sent them a message to see when their plans might be available.

    Quote Originally Posted by mohsart View Post
    For max length of boat, you may consider to place it corner to corner instead of front to back in the garage. You may also put the stem or stern right at the garage door, and open the door when you need space to work on it or move to the other side of the boat.

    /Mats
    Hadn't thought about door open while working to move around end to end, duh! Thanks Mats. Was late to my coffee this morning :P In that case, even diagonally (the garage is very weird proportions, long and narrow but with built in shelves on one end) could still only go max 14'. That's got me thinking the CLC pod at 13' 5" will be groovy.

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    Default Re: Peapod Design Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by rbgarr View Post
    Limited to 13+' and wanting to sail? Go with a transom-sterned boat, not a peapod. More room and will sail better most likely. But fwiw, here's a Beach Pea under sail:DSCN0753.jpg
    Great pic! Thanks for sharing. I'll introduce the idea of something transom-sterned to my partner in crime - she seems dead set on a pod, but I think that may just be nostalgia talking

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Peapod Design Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by mohsart View Post
    For max length of boat, you may consider to place it corner to corner instead of front to back in the garage. You may also put the stem or stern right at the garage door, and open the door when you need space to work on it or move to the other side of the boat.

    /Mats
    Yes, yes, yes! How I built an 18’ canoe in our wee garage these many moons ago.

    I’m guessing a 15’ boat can be built diagonally in the space a 13’ boat can be built longitudinally, or whatever. Especially with a double ended or two stemmed boat...

    Peace,
    Robert

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Peapod Design Decisions

    I wonder how the Peapod Races at Brooklin Boatyard went today? Anyone know?

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    Default Re: Peapod Design Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by KG_302 View Post
    A very good point, the CLC build is the front runner now for sure. Have sent them a message to see when their plans might be available.
    They had one at the WoodenBoat show rigged as a cat yawl which was a lot of gear in a 13' boat. Forward rowing station for carrying a passenger. Seat are a little wider than what my butt is used to , but one would not be expecting mighty rowing feats. Looked like a nice little boat with a much firmer bilge that a Hylan Beach Pea which would be bettter rowing craft.

    Something about kits: I've done some s&g kayaks from kits after doing a cost analysis of how long it would take to get the boat to that stage ( all parts cut) and the amount of time it would take to source all materials. If I charged my time at 25 an hour, kit prices were pretty competitive. So if you can afford the upfront cost, don't have the tools needed to accurately cut your parts, and want to save time in sourceing and cutting kits are a pretty good way to go.
    Ben Fuller
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  22. #22
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    Default Re: Peapod Design Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by rbgarr View Post
    Limited to 13+' and wanting to sail? Go with a transom-sterned boat, not a peapod.
    Well yeah, or a scow or pram style and get 15ft in 13ft.
    2019: returning from being sidelined with medical probs, crossing fingers worst is over, still in "armchair enthusiast" mode for time being.

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Peapod Design Decisions

    I built the Hylan 13' Beach Pea last winter. Plans were easy to follow and the boat is a sweet rower. I omitted the CB to keep the weight down and she fits snugly in the back of my pick up. I did put in the mast step to use for downwind sailing someday.
    Steve B
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    RIVUS 16' Melonseed


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    Default Re: Peapod Design Decisions

    I built one of the Arch Davis peapod and while I enjoy it it does have comparably limited capacity for a 12 foot boat, it will handle two people but is much happier with a single individual.

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Peapod Design Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by KG_302 View Post
    Do you happen to know if there is a link to the presentation David gives so I could study the pods and their charts?
    Send me a personal message with your email address and I'll send the Peapod study Powerpoint file.

  26. #26
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    Default Re: Peapod Design Decisions

    http://www.jwboatdesigns.co.nz/plans/janette/index.htm

    B68CB6A8-C453-4884-892C-759E15FF3A73.gif

    I think the transom boat is a good suggestion. Better sailing and capacity. You probably know John Welsford’s work. I think they have a great traditional look, like the Peapods. This is Janette his 12’er and Rouge is his 14’-7”er. Maybe ask him about stretching Janette to 13.5’

    Sounds like you guys are going to have fun, enjoy!
    Last edited by Matt young; 07-07-2019 at 09:17 AM.
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  27. #27
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    Default Re: Peapod Design Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Fuller View Post
    They had one at the WoodenBoat show rigged as a cat yawl which was a lot of gear in a 13' boat. Forward rowing station for carrying a passenger. Seat are a little wider than what my butt is used to , but one would not be expecting mighty rowing feats. Looked like a nice little boat with a much firmer bilge that a Hylan Beach Pea which would be bettter rowing craft.

    Something about kits: I've done some s&g kayaks from kits after doing a cost analysis of how long it would take to get the boat to that stage ( all parts cut) and the amount of time it would take to source all materials. If I charged my time at 25 an hour, kit prices were pretty competitive. So if you can afford the upfront cost, don't have the tools needed to accurately cut your parts, and want to save time in sourceing and cutting kits are a pretty good way to go.
    Great info about the kits Ben, and I agree, the photos of the CLC rigged as a cat yawl seem a little much. My personal preference is for better sailing over rowing (I was a college rower so anything other than a slide seat shell is far from satisfying for me!) so harder bilges seem the way to go.

    Quote Originally Posted by SBrookman View Post
    I built the Hylan 13' Beach Pea last winter. Plans were easy to follow and the boat is a sweet rower. I omitted the CB to keep the weight down and she fits snugly in the back of my pick up. I did put in the mast step to use for downwind sailing someday.
    Wonderful looking boat, thanks for sharing the photos!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Pelirrojo View Post
    I built one of the Arch Davis peapod and while I enjoy it it does have comparably limited capacity for a 12 foot boat, it will handle two people but is much happier with a single individual.
    This is great to know - we're 2, so I think anything that's happier solo vs 2 isn't going to work great for us. 12 ft is teeny I'm realizing!

    Quote Originally Posted by David Cockey View Post
    Send me a personal message with your email address and I'll send the Peapod study Powerpoint file.
    Will do, cheers David!! Fantastic presentation by the way, looking forward to peeking the Peapod slides.

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt young View Post
    http://www.jwboatdesigns.co.nz/plans/janette/index.htm

    B68CB6A8-C453-4884-892C-759E15FF3A73.gif

    I think the transom boat is a good suggestion. Better sailing and capacity. You probably know John Welsford’s work. I think they have a great traditional look, like the Peapods. This is Janette his 12’er and Rouge is his 14’-7”er. Maybe ask him about stretching Janette to 13.5’

    Sounds like you guys are going to have fun, enjoy!
    I agree on the transom suggestion, met some resistance from my partner when I suggested it (seems she does have lots of 'pod nostalgia!) but Jeanette looks lovely. I'll see if she bites, and then may inquire about a 13.5' stretch

  28. #28
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    Default Re: Peapod Design Decisions

    Transom sterned boat will give you more space and sail carrying power at the expense of weight. 13 however is a funny length. Designers do 10-12 as dinghies, then jump to 14 except maybe the Jimmy skiff at CLC. Vivier has a nice 12 footer but then jumps to 15. Same with Oughtred.
    Ben Fuller
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  29. #29
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    Default Re: Peapod Design Decisions

    Are you sure you cannot come up with a way of building a slightly longer boat?

    Most doubleenders suitable for one or two are around 14-20 feet long. You need that lenght. A shorter boat is just too sensitive to alongship trim so when you are alone in it you cannot row a straight course because the bow is deeper than the stern and when you are two in it the stern is loaded down too far. Preferably you also need two rowing positions far enough apart for comfortable rowing.

    My personal oppinion is that you should build a doubleender. Being spoiled with a racing shell rowing a doubleender will feel barely tolerable and rowing a transom sterned boat will feel like rowing a Thames barge.
    I row quite a lot in my transom sterned boat and every time I am out rowing I first curse the idiot who invented row boats with transoms (except for some very specific uses) and then I curse myself the fool who bought it. I don't have neither time to build nor money to buy a doubleender now so I am stuck with what I have.
    The drag caused by the transom really spoils rowing for me and the boyant stern is floating too high and always blows off course if it is windy. Of cause there are some transom sterned boats with the transom entirely above water but then you are back to the required lenght of a doubleender as the underwater body is the same.

    Have you thought about a Scandinavian type faering for instance?
    The sharper bottom makes most of them easier to row than flat bottomed American peapods. On the other hand they are less suitabe for landing on a sandy beach as the keel digs down in the sand.
    Last edited by heimlaga; 07-09-2019 at 02:00 PM.
    Amateur living on the western coast of Finland

  30. #30
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    Default Re: Peapod Design Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by heimlaga View Post
    Have you thought about a Scandinavian type faering for instance?
    The sharper bottom makes most of them easier to row than flat bottomed American peapods. On the other hand they are less suitabe for landing on a sandy beach as the keel digs down in the sand.
    Or a Jaktkanot

    https://batritningar.se/en/boatplans...ot/5-jaktkanot
    Note though that those plans don't come with any build instructions.
    Also, the Jaktkanot is terrible upwind because of the miniscule keel-plank, it may be worth it installing a centerboard or side swords.

    /Mats

    Elected Swedish Yourneyman of the Year 2019

  31. #31
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    Default Re: Peapod Design Decisions

    I came to think of a Faroes tríbekkur
    http://www.hvannrok.fo/2013/11/07/ba...m-ahuga-i-sms/
    Those are built for the open Atlantic and I rekon it would wourk just as well along the open Pacific coast.

    A Shetland whilly boat or a Gotland tvåmänning are other examples of very seaworthy doubleenders for two though different from the Norwegian f
    æring and sjekte which ate to types that people from abroad usually would come to think of. There are drawings of several types in the book Såbåter Og Små Seilbåter by Torgny Knutson.

    Our doubleenders here in the northern corner of the Baltic are built for different sea conditions and not quite the boats I would recommend for an open coast.
    Amateur living on the western coast of Finland

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