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Thread: Threadloc or not

  1. #1
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    Default Threadloc or not

    Iím installing bronze carriage bolts with nut and split washers. What is a better installation method, use thread loc so the bolts donít loosen or not to thread loc to enable tightening down the road when necessary? Or something besides thread loc or similar substance?

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Threadloc or not

    I didn’t use anything ontbe topside when I replaced my keel bolts

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    Default Re: Threadloc or not

    Generally threadlockers are used to resist loosening by vibration . Although not strictly necessary on the sort of thing a carriage bolt is used for, it cant do any harm. A little heat is usually enough to loosen fastenings when needed.

    https://www.albanycountyfasteners.co...-threadlocker/
    If you cant make it accurate, make it adjustable.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Threadloc or not

    Where are these bolts, what are they securing?
    As Stiletto says, necessary on engines to combat vibration, but superfluous any where else on a boat, you generally do not even need split washers once the green patina develops.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  5. #5
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    Default Re: Threadloc or not

    As Nick said - gotta know where & how the bolts are being used & in what materials. If the bolts will be strictly in wood, thread compound will make it much more likely that the carriage end will spin when you try to remove them.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

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    Default Re: Threadloc or not

    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post
    As Nick said - gotta know where & how the bolts are being used & in what materials. If the bolts will be strictly in wood, thread compound will make it much more likely that the carriage end will spin when you try to remove them.
    I’m using them on 7/16 cypress hull planking where it is too tight to get tools into for copper nails secured by a rove. The spinning is my concern also with thread loc. Is silicon caulk a good idea on the threads or not?

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    Default Re: Threadloc or not

    Quote Originally Posted by Arlc View Post
    I’m using them on 7/16 cypress hull planking where it is too tight to get tools into for copper nails secured by a rove. The spinning is my concern also with thread loc. Is silicon caulk a good idea on the threads or not?
    When Norwegian boatbuilders hit than problem they drive the nail outwards from inside and clink the rove outside. What boat are you building?
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Threadloc or not

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    When Norwegian boatbuilders hit than problem they drive the nail outwards from inside and clink the rove outside. What boat are you building?
    A Christmas Wherry designed by Walt Simmons, Ducktrap.com
    Re: Norwegian builders. How would they drive from the inside from tight spaces inside to out? No space for tools let alone swing space.

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    Default Re: Threadloc or not

    I rarely use split washers. They only work in a narrow set of circumstances
    More here; http://www.boltscience.com/pages/hel...ingwashers.htm

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Threadloc or not

    Quote Originally Posted by Arlc View Post
    A Christmas Wherry designed by Walt Simmons, Ducktrap.com
    Re: Norwegian builders. How would they drive from the inside from tight spaces inside to out? No space for tools let alone swing space.
    You always drill a pilot hole for fastenings in boats, even nails, so it is not too difficult to start tapping the nail home with the side of a light hammer. Then harden it up with the dolly as you drive the rove over the nail.



    She is not excessively fine in the ends. What size hammer were you planning to use?
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  11. #11
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    Default Re: Threadloc or not

    A good thread lock or sealant will be a problem on a carriage bolt because it will take enough torque to remove all the way off that you will have to grab the head with something.

    Thread lockers come in different strength grades. While I don't think you want or need one here, the low strength grade is the best choice. You can still tighten the bolt and you don't normally need to heat it to get the nut off. The grades are color coded. You may not want any, but if you still do, you want purple. In the US, the most common one is Loctite 222. A tacky thread sealant or pipe dope will do the same job. ND Industries ST3, Loctite 592 etc.
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  12. #12
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    Default Re: Threadloc or not

    For that application you could use a drop or two of varnish

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Threadloc or not

    What size hammer were you planning to use?
    4 oz hammer

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Threadloc or not

    Another fastener option is machine screws & PM nuts. I use them on dinghy rubrails & other odd spots. The corners dig into the wood a bit so they don't spin. These are stainless - but give the idea:



    Jamestown & others stock them. Standard Fasteners has bronze - or did a couple of years ago.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

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    Default Re: Threadloc or not

    Quote Originally Posted by Arlc View Post
    What size hammer were you planning to use?
    4 oz hammer
    Yet you don't believe that you can use it in the ends of the boat? The apron, stem knee, stern post will be a couple of inches wide, then the garboard spreads out so the first nail back from the stem/sternpost will be far enough back to give you adequate space to work. Hell, boat builders have been clinking and clenching lap nails for centuries without needing machine screws and nuts.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Threadloc or not

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    Yet you don't believe that you can use it in the ends of the boat? The apron, stem knee, stern post will be a couple of inches wide, then the garboard spreads out so the first nail back from the stem/sternpost will be far enough back to give you adequate space to work. Hell, boat builders have been clinking and clenching lap nails for centuries without needing machine screws and nuts.
    True. But I’ll bet if carriage bolts and other fasteners were available to them then would have used them. LOL!
    I don’t think I will use thread loc.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Threadloc or not

    I wouldn't use a threadlocker, just a sealant like Permatex no. 14.

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    Default Re: Threadloc or not

    After Sandy, I removed my mangled boom gallows. They were bolted down with bronze carriage bolts, nuts and flat washers in 1968. They came off easily with a wrench, showed no sign of sealant, and did their job for 44 years.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Threadloc or not

    Quote Originally Posted by Arlc View Post
    True. But I’ll bet if carriage bolts and other fasteners were available to them then would have used them. LOL!
    I don’t think I will use thread loc.
    Nope, they would have followed the KISS principle and saved on money. Either theirs or their customers.
    Don't forget, if you need to repair the boat in the future you will have to go up a gauge of fastener so you start as thin as the designer specifies, then go up a gauge.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  20. #20
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    Default Re: Threadloc or not

    Keep in mind that the threadlock adhesives come in various strengths. Here - the main brand is Loctite. I have used the 'low-strength', 'medium...', and 'permanent'. I use the low-strength for a lot of stuff (when I remember to, anyway) because it not only resists loosening, it also helps with potentiall galling situations. And it helps stave off moisture intrusion/corrosion.
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  21. #21
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    Default Re: Threadloc or not

    Garret, Canoeyawl, MN Dave, David G, do any of you think that this

    cannot have its plank lands fastened with clinked nails and roves, and so must use machine screws or carriage bolts?
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  22. #22
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    Default Re: Threadloc or not

    All boats I've worked on have used screws for planks - so I am not familiar with space requirements for clinked nails.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Threadloc or not

    It depends...
    If used as a sailboat, I would use rivets and rives. A rowboat clinker is fine.
    From here it looks like glued lap plywood, and probably doesn't need anything.

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    Default Re: Threadloc or not

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    Garret, Canoeyawl, MN Dave, David G, do any of you think that this cannot have its plank lands fastened with clinked nails and roves, and so must use machine screws or carriage bolts?
    The OP:
    I’m installing bronze carriage bolts with nut and split washers. What is a better installation method, use thread loc so the bolts don’t loosen or not to thread loc to enable tightening down the road when necessary? Or something besides thread loc or similar substance?
    We answered the question that was asked. My answer applies to any carriage bolt used anywhere. I left it to you and others to discuss the ergonomics of clenching in close quarters. Your post didn't leave anything for me to say that was worth saying on that subject.
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  25. #25
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    Default Re: Threadloc or not

    Thank you gentlemen. Garret I assume that is on US built carvel boats.

    Now can we put his silliness to bed please?
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  26. #26
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    Default Re: Threadloc or not

    You assume correctly sir.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

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