Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 36 to 49 of 49

Thread: A new Raidboat and Cruising Dinghy Design for the Home Builder

  1. #36
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Wilhelmshaven, Northwest Germany, Jade Bay at the North Sea Coast
    Posts
    126

    Default Re: A new Raidboat and Cruising Dinghy Design for the Home Builder

    Hello Alan,

    a Windmill is not a common class in my area and I didn't sailed one, so I can not say anything about it. If driving the bow under is a well known fault of the design you cannot do much agaist it. Simply adding volume will not automatically fix the problem. There are more design details that must be balanced against each other to produce a well performing dinghy.


    Hello Everybody!

    Meanwhile I started making a model of spiral round no.4, to see how the hull looks in real life.
    Looking good so far, but Iam not sure about the inverted bow any more. Looks a little odd. What do you think???

    008.jpg 009.jpg 010.jpg

    Have Fun! Michel

  2. #37
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Location
    Tallinn, Estonia
    Posts
    1

    Default Re: A new Raidboat and Cruising Dinghy Design for the Home Builder

    I am following this thread with great interest and looking forward to see how this project progress. What you are designing, is more or less exactly what I am looking for, although I am looking for something where two could sleep ideally.
    Keep the thread going with updates on your progress.

    Chris
    Last edited by Chris Narum; 09-22-2019 at 04:27 AM.

  3. #38
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Salem, MA
    Posts
    152

    Default Re: A new Raidboat and Cruising Dinghy Design for the Home Builder

    luckystrike118,

    Great to see a boatphile sharing their thinking and progress - thanks.

    I'm late to your thread, so maybe this has been covered, but...

    Curious what your current working target is for the cruising payload (not counting mast/sails/lines) ? Assuming how may passengers? .. how many days of stores?

    Have you any estimates for the total boat weight? What weight per sheet ar eyou assuming for the ply sheets? Are they 4x8? .. 5x10?

    Kepp it up.
    Tom

  4. #39
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Wilhelmshaven, Northwest Germany, Jade Bay at the North Sea Coast
    Posts
    126

    Default Re: A new Raidboat and Cruising Dinghy Design for the Home Builder

    Hello Folks,

    sorry, Iam very buisy in the real world at this time and I will be so the next week. So no progress in the moment. But I will post some data about payloads, passengers and so on next week, as well as Spiral No. 5 which is also in the making.

    So, stay tuned and have fun, Michel

  5. #40
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Location
    Portland, Oregon, USA
    Posts
    1

    Default Re: A new Raidboat and Cruising Dinghy Design for the Home Builder

    I too am interested in what you are working on. A 2+ person raid boat, self bailing cockpit, large enough to sleep in under a tarp, dry storage for camping gear, and of course sporty performance! Oars or human power would be a nice option, though I also have tidal currents above 5kts, so it's probably not very realistic. I do like your simple modern lines and a quick/low cost build would be great. Easy! How come this doesn't exist already?

    Other designs that might be similar or inspirational:
    Welsford AWOL
    Barefoot Boats Dick Smiley
    Skate 15
    Lili 6.1
    Coresound 17

    -Tom

  6. #41
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Zbigit
    Posts
    1,234

    Default Re: A new Raidboat and Cruising Dinghy Design for the Home Builder

    Quote Originally Posted by luckystrike118 View Post
    Hello Alan,

    a Windmill is not a common class in my area and I didn't sailed one, so I can not say anything about it. If driving the bow under is a well known fault of the design you cannot do much agaist it. Simply adding volume will not automatically fix the problem. There are more design details that must be balanced against each other to produce a well performing dinghy.

    The Windmill has been a popular racing dinghy for many decades now. However, the boat is narrow and has a very large sailplan. It also needs crew that realize that to drive the boat fast, downwind, they need to move crew weight, aft.

    We didn't know that at the time.

    I think that the Windmill is a good design. The 2,000 - plus boats built to the design suggest that Clark Mills did something right... it's just not exactly what YOU want. So carry on!

  7. #42
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Wilhelmshaven, Northwest Germany, Jade Bay at the North Sea Coast
    Posts
    126

    Default Windmill Design

    Quote Originally Posted by Alan H View Post
    I think that the Windmill is a good design. The 2,000 - plus boats built to the design suggest that Clark Mills did something right... it's just not exactly what YOU want. So carry on!
    Took a closer look at the Windmill design. It seems to be a very able boat. It reminds me at the german Pirat Cass Dinghy, which is (typically german) on the heavy side of boat design. But the Windmill is quite lightwheight. It lacks the double bottom and the standard interior is not cruising like. Seats, floorboards etc should be altered to have space for sleeping.

    Have fun, Michel

  8. #43
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Wilhelmshaven, Northwest Germany, Jade Bay at the North Sea Coast
    Posts
    126

    Default Hello Tom

    Quote Originally Posted by tom151 View Post
    luckystrike118,

    Great to see a boatphile sharing their thinking and progress - thanks.

    Curious what your current working target is for the cruising payload (not counting mast/sails/lines) ? Assuming how may passengers? .. how many days of stores?

    Have you any estimates for the total boat weight? What weight per sheet ar eyou assuming for the ply sheets? Are they 4x8? .. 5x10?
    Hello Tom,

    you are welcome!

    I start with:
    Basic dimensions: 4,6m, 1,52m, 90kg, 9.5m (10m for lightwind areas), two reefs.

    Total boat wheight (empty, ready to sail incl. rig, board and rudder) will be at 80 - 95kg. Displacement is specified at 260kg with 10cm draft and up to 340kg max. at 12cm (and the "corners" of the bottom still airbourne) . So you have a payload of 160kg to 200kg (and a little more for daysailing). Keep it light!!! A heavy boat will not sail well and do not plane anymore.

    So, there is no wheight issue for a crew of two and a kid daysailing. Cockpit space is generous because you can sit on the raised floor forward. Cruising is for a singlehander and stores for a week.

    Construction: 6mm Marine Grade Okume Plywood gives a robust and light boat, a fibreglass sheeting is structurally not nessesary, 4oz. will make it bullit proof. Has somebody accesss to Paulownia ( Kiri) plywood???

    The boat is designed to take advantage of 4' x 8' panels. You will need 7 - 8 panels to build this boat. Okume Marine plywood (other names: Gaboon, African Mahagonie) wheigh in at 500 - 550kg/m, so one panel will be at 9 - 10kg/panel.

    Lumber: Use softwood with a density of no more than 500kg/m (fir, pine, hoop pine or whatever is cheap, straight and knot free in your region of the world. Paulownia and Western Red Cedar are welcome for a lighter boat if you can afford it.

    Have Fun, Michel
    Last edited by luckystrike118; 10-24-2019 at 08:25 PM. Reason: correction

  9. #44
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    Oriental, NC USA
    Posts
    5,006

    Default Re: Windmill Design

    Quote Originally Posted by luckystrike118 View Post
    Took a closer look at the Windmill design. It seems to be a very able boat. It reminds me at the german Pirat Cass Dinghy, which is (typically german) on the heavy side of boat design. But the Windmill is quite lightwheight. It lacks the double bottom and the standard interior is not cruising like. Seats, floorboards etc should be altered to have space for sleeping.

    Have fun, Michel
    A Windmill is not, nor is it intended to be, a cruising boat, so shortcomings in its cruising accommodation is nonsense. What a Windmill is, is the best 15.5 foot racing sailboat that can be built to competition level easily by a home builder. As a 60 year old design often constrained by Class rules, it does not have some of the modern features that are thought necessary for fast boats. Having the bow of a sharp ended racing boat go underwater is not a failure of the boat but a failure of the sailor. Plus, that is the way to get upwind fastest, if wetter, for some sailors.

    Very nice looking boat built by the OP. I have some personal likes and dislikes though. I really dislike a non-boom mainsail with aft mainsheet. Doesn't set well downwind and is much harder to adjust.
    Last edited by Tom Lathrop; 10-24-2019 at 09:49 AM.
    Tom L

  10. #45
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Wilhelmshaven, Northwest Germany, Jade Bay at the North Sea Coast
    Posts
    126

    Default Design name Jade Bay Skiff, Tom and the two crew cruising dinghy, News Spiral No.5,

    Hello (the other) Tom and Hello Everybody!

    I finally found a good name for the design. After my home waters in Northern Germany my cruising dinghy design will be called "Jade Bay Skiff"


    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Makes Things View Post
    I too am interested in what you are working on. A 2+ person raid boat, self bailing cockpit, large enough to sleep in under a tarp, dry storage for camping gear, and of course sporty performance! Oars or human power would be a nice option, .... .... I do like your simple modern lines and a quick/low cost build would be great. Easy! How come this doesn't exist already?
    -Tom


    How come this doesn't exist already?

    Cruising Dinghy design is not very high on the designers priority list. It needs a lot of recherche to identify the needs for this special purposefor a very limited number of sailors interested. Many of them are happy with their proven designs.Every Designer tries to create something that is new and takes care of his preferances. Mine are the self bailing double bottom as a feature for safety in the case of capsize, the light displacement allowing a big degree of performance and speed while daysailing , the simple and fast amateur constructon and the cheap materials and equipment.

    Many sailors go cruising with their 2000 times proven cruising dinghys (for example Windmill, Wayfarer, Pirat, Zugvogel and so on) and are happy with them. Other sailors build a "simple as can be boat" (GIS) and go cruising with it and are happy with it. Its all ok until you can live with the shortcomings of your design. Bailing out a ton of water after capsize or sitting on a 5cm wide rail for hours of sailing are not funny for me. I want to know what happens if Roger Barnes from Youtube capsises his heavy dinghy and has to bail out this brick. Can he do it or must he call for rescue?

    The Two Crew Cruising Dinghy:
    I startet a product concept catalogue for a two crew dinghy and came up with a needed payload of around 250 - 300kg, meaning a displacement of 380 - 450kg. . Thats a lot of boat!!! But I think it can be done. Following the same concept as the singlehander it will be 5,40m long and around 1,70m wide. I will squeeze every cm out of the plywood panels so that it can be built from 10 panels of ply. Sleeping will be side by side in the aft cockpit with a width of around 1,30m and 2,40 length.

    Spiral No.5
    The reverse bow
    is gone in favor for a plumb bow. On paper or computer the reverse was nice but I didn't liked it at the model. A monohull is too fat for this.

    Design of the Hull is finished:
    The actual shape and the structure of the hull is finished, it will be built the "Sitch and Glue" way with the help of 5 bulkheads, transom and stem. See attachments: No, the mast is not at the right position.

    It's time for the hardest part of boat design. Devellop the construction / building plans.

    007.jpg 002.jpg

    Please Note! The attachments are distorted and not suitable for construction!

    Have Fun, Michel

  11. #46
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Oslofjorden
    Posts
    743

    Default Re: A new Raidboat and Cruising Dinghy Design for the Home Builder

    Hi Michael!

    Did you specify how much water ballast the Jade bay will carry?

    Thanks for sharing your design progress!
    Ragnar B.

  12. #47
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Wilhelmshaven, Northwest Germany, Jade Bay at the North Sea Coast
    Posts
    126

    Default Re: A new Raidboat and Cruising Dinghy Design for the Home Builder

    Hi Ragnar,

    a central watertank is formed by the structure under the double bottom just behind the daggerboard case. It carries 50 litres and is operated via a standard inspection hatch. Left and right of the tank are stores for heavy items you do not use every day (freshwater in 1.5 litre PET's, tools etc). Access is trough hatches on the upper deck beside the daggerboard case. Left and right of the daggerboard are fixed places for anchor with rope and chain and optional battery. All together you have around 70 kg fixed "ballast" that will help in a capsize and will calm down the light boat in stronger winds.

    Have Fun, Michel

  13. #48
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Wilhelmshaven, Northwest Germany, Jade Bay at the North Sea Coast
    Posts
    126

    Default Re: Windmill Design

    To Tom Lathrop,

    I agree completely with your Windmill statement.

    Michel

  14. #49
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    South Island, New Zealand
    Posts
    7

    Default Re: A new Raidboat and Cruising Dinghy Design for the Home Builder

    Looks like this will be mostly a flat water boat? With the large flat bottom panel?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •