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Thread: A new Raidboat and Cruising Dinghy Design for the Home Builder

  1. #71
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    Default Re: A new Raidboat and Cruising Dinghy Design for the Home Builder

    Was anyone making a comparison? I posted the picture with the words "similar concept", meaning just that. Saying design has moved on is correct, but you are basically using a simple flat bottom skiff shape that could have been found a century ago......so thats kind of amusing. I am not knocking your design, good luck with it.

  2. #72
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    Default Re: A new Raidboat and Cruising Dinghy Design for the Home Builder

    Quote Originally Posted by luckystrike118 View Post
    Hello Tink,
    thank you for your post, I like the way you design your boats and your efforts building them. I'am a proa dude too


    ... is the double bottom worth the effort???

    I think yes it is!
    1. The double bottom makes the boat self bailing while sailing in rough conditiones as well as after capsizing.
    2. It houses the water ballast tank aft of the daggerboard trunk. Forward, where the double bottom is raised to 30+cm height, it forms the watertight storage compartment.
    3. Wheight and building effort is not so much more. If you want to sleep directly on the flat bottom, you will have to have some floor boards or otherwise you will have a wet sleeping bag as soon as your boom tent will let some drips of rainwater through. Again, selfdraining is a advantage. Building floorboards ( a must for your proposed V-Bottom) will add wheight and effort too.

    My Jade Bay Skiff has already a very narrow bottom and waterline (1,15m) to keep wetted surface small. This, combined with light displacement is very important in performant sharpie design. Adding a V-Bottom and making it even more narrower would result is a very tipping boat..

    Have fun, Michel
    like how the design is progressing. There are obviously advantages to a double bottom as you list and I don’t disagree. I think the ‘is it worth it’ largely depends on where you are sailing, what size rig you’re going use and how ‘aggressive’ you want to be. If you’re exploring inland waters and prepared to reef early a DB is probably not important. Coastal sailing where using speed to get to right place at the right time tides etc a DB would be well worth it.

    http://tinkboats.com/

  3. #73
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    Default Re: A new Raidboat and Cruising Dinghy Design for the Home Builder

    Quote Originally Posted by tink View Post
    ..... I think the ‘is it worth it’ largely depends on where you are sailing, what size rig you’re going use and how ‘aggressive’ you want to be. If you’re exploring inland waters and prepared to reef early a DB is probably not important. Coastal sailing where using speed to get to right place at the right time tides etc a DB would be well worth it.

    http://tinkboats.com/
    Hello Tink,

    this is a interesting thought. Yes may be. I live at the coastline and even the big bay where I sail has strong currents and easy 1m waves. As a racer by nature I have an eye for a good performance. So, in a one mast, single sail boat I like to have a big sail with reef no1 having average sailarea to normal boats. For myself is sailing in costal areas the normal and this way I design my boats.

    This is funny, I never thought at the needs, or the possible compromisses, of the sailors sailing in protected inland waters.

    Have fun, Michel

  4. #74
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    Default Re: A new Raidboat and Cruising Dinghy Design for the Home Builder

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Fuller View Post
    Sorry that you found MALU irrelevant. I believe the owner has done a bit of camp cruising in same; the main reason cited is that the Windmill is often ignored in the discussions of sharpie types and they did some interesting work with small side tanks to make the boat self rescueing. Attention needs to be paid to the rig and weight. On my own boat we borrowed lots from International Canoes, creating a high aspect ratio full batten main with spars in carbon and the lug yard in a sleeve, creating a very efficient rig. We kept the weight down by giving it an asymmetric hull, making it a planing double ender like canoe, saving the weight of a transom and creating the adding benefit of a pleasant rowing craft. We did not do a double bottom to save weight and used bags for floatation. A dagger board which needs to be managed adds to the performance and helps the space issue. My boat has wide "rub" rails for comfort hiking and is one of the few raid boats with a toe strap. The topsides have lots of flare. Principle borrowed from the Merlin Rocket.
    I have a lot of experience with flat bottomed sharpies, and in my experience, they take more effort to row than an arc-bottom or v-bottom sharpie. I suspect a Windmill could be modified to be a very good raid boat. I think a lug yawl would be better than the rig shown.

  5. #75
    Join Date
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    Deephaven, MN
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    Default Re: A new Raidboat and Cruising Dinghy Design for the Home Builder

    One of your motives for the double floor is self bailing after capsized or while sailing. Why do you do rarely see automatic bailers in GIS or similar boat. I have raced many boats with these and they can be remarkably effective.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  6. #76
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    Default Re: A new Raidboat and Cruising Dinghy Design for the Home Builder

    Quote Originally Posted by swoody126 View Post
    interesting concept

    i got in on a Welsford Saturday Night Special build a couple years ago and true to Welsford's tradition it wasn't as quickly realized as originally advertised

    butt once finished they achieved quite a few of this OP's design points

    fast

    skinny water

    good solo

    simple rig

    balanced lug

    quick learning curve

    adequate area to stash gear

    they have done the Texas 200 successfully which is one of our "acid tests" here in The Colonies

    one SNS skipper borrowed the boat on his way from up north to South Texas and did The 200 in a boat he'd never seen before that event

    ¿ did you say WILD CAMPING ?

    the Texas 200 is definitely in WILD country :-O

    i do love me some flat bottom'd sharpie hull shapes

    gotz me a

    Attachment 40794

    anda big ole glass o' sweet tea

    let the funn continue

    sw
    We built one in five days part time, plus two to get two coats of paint on her. She was about a 20 metre boat, that is, she looked good from about that distance. But the boat was designed to be a really quick and dirty, almost disposable boat, and all the ones Iv'e seen to date, have been pretty nicely built, which of course takes a lot of extra time. Good to hear that the boat performed well though.

    John Welsford
    An expert is but a beginner with experience.

  7. #77
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    Jul 2020
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    Default Re: A new Raidboat and Cruising Dinghy Design for the Home Builder

    If you sail on open waters then obvious thing is twin asymmetric boards, going through the hull at the point it meets the floor each side.

    If you are too busy tacking to raise and lower boards each time, then symmetrical Biplane boards both dropped at the same time would work, then each can be smaller and may not protrude through the floor at all if swinging..
    Just an amateur bodging away..

  8. #78
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    Default Re: A new Raidboat and Cruising Dinghy Design for the Home Builder

    Quote Originally Posted by mcgoldrick View Post
    One of your motives for the double floor is self bailing after capsized or while sailing. Why do you do rarely see automatic bailers in GIS or similar boat. I have raced many boats with these and they can be remarkably effective.
    Hello Mc Goldrik,

    yes these are effective. But they work only if the boat can sail with some speed after capsize, so that the sucking effect can begin. This is with a 470, 505 or similar boats that have only a few dozens litres weater in them and can sail immediatly. A cruising boat like the mentioned GIS is full with water and has to bailed out before sailing. So a Elvström bailer will not work then.

    A capsized GIS looks like this when it comes up from capsize.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahpZRHMVl0k
    Would'nt it be nice if the water would just rush out of the boat without any bailing? Imagine if you have half a metre of waves around you.

    Have Fun, Michel
    Last edited by luckystrike118; 08-25-2020 at 03:04 AM.

  9. #79
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    Default Re: A new Raidboat and Cruising Dinghy Design for the Home Builder

    Quote Originally Posted by The Q View Post
    If you sail on open waters then obvious thing is twin asymmetric boards, going through the hull at the point it meets the floor each side.

    If you are too busy tacking to raise and lower boards each time, then symmetrical Biplane boards both dropped at the same time would work, then each can be smaller and may not protrude through the floor at all if swinging..
    Hello Q,

    I think twin boards are more weight and effort than effect. If you want to have a smaller board or a more effective one upwind it is better to go to a gybing board ... imho

    Have fun, Michel

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