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Thread: Lowell Sailing Surf Dory 16'

  1. #71
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    Default Re: Lowell Sailing Surf Dory 16'

    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Cohen View Post


    Around 4:40 he just slips a boom in when he starts a run. I like that.
    I believe he posted elsewhere that this video was the first and only time he bothered to use a boom at all--if I remember right, he said there wasn't any real advantage to it, and it wasn't worth the hassle.

    I agree with that assessment myself, having done a bit of experimenting with my own boomless standing lug. But others with a lot of experience (John Hartman on his Ilur, for example) have used sprit booms and really like them.

    Tom
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  2. #72
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    Default Re: Lowell Sailing Surf Dory 16'

    Quote Originally Posted by WI-Tom View Post
    I believe he posted elsewhere that this video was the first and only time he bothered to use a boom at all--if I remember right, he said there wasn't any real advantage to it, and it wasn't worth the hassle.

    I agree with that assessment myself, having done a bit of experimenting with my own boomless standing lug. But others with a lot of experience (John Hartman on his Ilur, for example) have used sprit booms and really like them.

    Tom
    I would like to try it, if only for a way to quench the whiplash effect of the clew when luffing. The mainsheet is set up with a block at the rudder end as we'll as a big one at the clew. When I was out last week in an 8kt blow, I felt very lucky not get it in the ear.

  3. #73
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    Default Re: Lowell Sailing Surf Dory 16'

    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Cohen View Post
    I would like to try it, if only for a way to quench the whiplash effect of the clew when luffing.
    I know what you mean about that. I have learned to avoid luffing for the most part--instead, I'll keep the boat on one tack or the other, with the sheet eased way out to keep the sail just barely drawing. The boat moves along very slowly, and the sail doesn't thrash about. It's a really effective way to take a break with a boomless sail.

    Another thing you might want to consider is some kind of tiller tender/self-steering set-up. It can make a boat MUCH easier to handle if you know the tiller will mind itself, leaving you both hands free to handle sheets. A really good simple system I use on my boat is this:

    self steering 1.jpg

    And then:

    self steering 2.jpg

    The friction of the line on the bungee loop holds the tiller steady wherever you let go. To tack, just move the tiller over and let got, then handle the sheets as you come about, then back to the tiller. You don't need to engage or disengage the self-steering--you can steer by hand at any moment, or let go at any moment. Here's what it looks like in use:



    I'd suggest trying this out--it might make everything a whole lot less busy for you, especially since you've got jib sheets to take care of, too.

    Tom
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  4. #74
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    Default Re: Lowell Sailing Surf Dory 16'

    I rigged up a simple steering aid like you said, Tom. It seems to work well. The tiller absolutely stays put. Maybe I'll get to try it tomorrow!

    IMG_1678.jpg

    I also had the chance to make some dummy spars and try out the GIS sail.

    IMG_1675.jpg

  5. #75
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    Default Re: Lowell Sailing Surf Dory 16'

    The new sail looks like a good match for the boat--I hope the tiller tender works well for you. I've really liked mine.

    FYI, those wrinkles from throat to clew are a sign that you need more downhaul tension. And if you get folds/wrinkles running from tack to peak, that means you need less downhaul tension. I really like something like this for my downhaul--the block/cam cleat combination works really well to get good tension, and is easily adjustable:

    DSCN4855 (2).jpg

    Mine is a Holt 40mm block, I think--cost about $40. Money well spent, especially since the downhaul tension is critical for good performance with lug rigs.

    Tom
    You don't have to be prepared as long as you're willing to suffer the consequences.

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  6. #76
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    Default Re: Lowell Sailing Surf Dory 16'

    It's hard to tell from the picture, but the 1 x 2 make-shift yard has about 6" of bend in it!

    I'm in the process of making new spars now. I have 4 pieces of quarter sawn 5/4 x 6 x 16' old growth (25 rings/") doug fir that need something to do.

  7. #77
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    Default Re: Lowell Sailing Surf Dory 16'

    Tale of Two Outings: I took her out for a second voyage yesterday. 4-6kt, on and off winds. I had my "tiller tender" set up and it made all the difference. I was able to move forward, hoist the jib and adjust the downhaul with ease.*

    I left the jib down at first to see how it sailed on main alone. There was a bit of weather helm, but not much. The little jib added a lot. I was surprised how much. It definitely pointed straighter.

    One downer, I couldn't seem to find a comfortable seating position. Ideally I would like to sit amidships to keep the bow in the water, but in a light breeze, the boat still heeled windward. Yes, I need to loose 50#. When I perched on the aft bench, the tiller was too long and kept jabbing me in the back. I couldn't make helm adjustments with out moving out of the way. Not the end of the world. There are two holes in the transom already; perfect to try a little Coquina rope steering setup. On a positive note, when the breeze freshened, my girth kept things quite flat and she really ran out.

    I forgot my trial sprit boom, but honestly, now that I could move around the boat to make sail adjustments, I really didn't miss it. The sail shape looked great. I did get one nice death roll on a straight run, so now I know what the unintended gybe is all about.

    The wind was perfect for a nice reach to the dock. I must have had a good 4kts working heading into the ramp. With the tiller fixed, I was able to haul the centerboard, drop the jib and main (keeping the yard in the boat) and coast to stop dockside, just tapping the gunwale. There were two witnesses to this feet of boating dexterity, but a video would have gone viral.

    It was a very hot day, and the trip had to end when I ran out of drinking water, but I spent 3 hours having the most fun in a boat that I've had for a long time. There is a lot of potential here once I finally get everything sorted.


    *Well not that easy. I need to add a floor. The main and sub-frames are killers on the feet when moving around in a tender boat. Plus, it will keep the bilge water below and provide a dry floor surface.

    Another thing I need is a way to snug the yard to the mast when it is not fully hosted. At times it was blowing 6-8" from the mast.
    Last edited by Alan Cohen; 07-31-2019 at 09:11 AM.

  8. #78
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    Default Re: Lowell Sailing Surf Dory 16'

    Thinking out loud: Mizzen mast. Replace aft bench cover with replacement cover with hole for mizzen mast.

    Image-1.jpg

    Line steering. Holes already in transom.

    IMG_1678.jpg

    Run steering lines under gunwales or to a remote tiller like this:

    Screen Shot 2019-07-31 at 10.37.10 AM.jpg

  9. #79
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    Default Re: Lowell Sailing Surf Dory 16'

    On my not dissimilar boat, I have a 'tiller tamer' that comprises two dead eyes under the gunnels with a cord that hooks onto a thumb cleat under the tiller; Two knots limit the slip there and the ends between the dead eyes have a bit of bungee to tension them. This stop the tiller wandering when I have to row and if I need to let go and fix something. It hooks on and off the thumbcleat in an instant.
    Second. After trying camcleats at the gunnels for the jib and finding that it was impossible to reach them to tack in gusty conditions, I put fairleads in the best spot and have a ply plate that clips to the thwart/cb case with the cam cleats. I can then handle the jib in tricky conditions when solo. If crewed, we either leave it behind, or just put up with the bump in the seating.
    Your first shot of the rig shouted 'OW' with the block on the clew. The sail is not large, so could a single sheet purchase handle the tension? I use a boom and the 3:1 tackle is on the rear of the centre board case and about 2/3 along the boom, so needs a bit of purchase. Since this gets in the light shifting my creaking corpus when tacking, I fancy shifting the sheet to the rear of the boom with less advantage. Might work for you too?
    A2

    BTW, sort of amazed that the boat looks new, yet is over 20 yrs old. Was it never used?
    Last edited by Andrew2; 07-31-2019 at 02:04 PM.

  10. #80
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    Default Re: Lowell Sailing Surf Dory 16'

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew2 View Post
    BTW, sort of amazed that the boat looks new, yet is over 20 yrs old. Was it never used?
    It's closer to 30 years old. It got wet 5 times in the past 28 years, before I took ownership, 3 hence. Unfortunately, it will get a lot more wear and tear now. I've already doubled the dings and scratches.

    I like the idea of removable camcleats. I'm torn between modifying it to my wants and needs and keeping it stock. I certainly don't want to start drilling holes just to try something out.

    I'm ordering some ipe decking for the floorboards and I think I might want a set of tanbark sails. They would go so well with the green/red paint outside and mahogany interior.

  11. #81
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    Default Re: Lowell Sailing Surf Dory 16'

    I sit on the bottom, on floorboards. I also use a tiller designed to be in reach from there, or clear me seated.

  12. #82
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    Default Re: Lowell Sailing Surf Dory 16'

    Quote Originally Posted by johngsandusky View Post
    I sit on the bottom, on floorboards. I also use a tiller designed to be in reach from there, or clear me seated.
    Speaking of floorboards, I think that is my next upgrade. I'm thinking about using Ipe decking boards. I can get them in 3/4" thickness, 4/4 and 5/4. I can resaw the 5/4 and make the boards 1/2" as well. But I'm thinking I might want to take this opportunity and add some ballast to the boat. I can add almost 100# low in the boat by going full 5/4.

  13. #83
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    Default Re: Lowell Sailing Surf Dory 16'

    I like ballast on many sailing dinghies. I've used exercise weights, water jugs, sand bags and shot bags. Moving my weight down in the boat makes a considerable difference too.

  14. #84
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    Default Re: Lowell Sailing Surf Dory 16'

    Alan,

    I'm glad the tiller tender is making things easier--I really feel like it's a valuable tool to have.

    On seating--I wouldn't be too quick to replace your tiller with line steering if your main reason is to make it possible to sit on the stern bench. The sad truth is, those stern benches look great, but they're not really for seating. If you do sit there, the trim will be all wrong with so much weight aft. That really matters in a small boat, especially for windward performance.

    The only time I am able to sit in my stern bench is at anchor, or on a run with a good breeze with the wind behind me, which is when you'll want weight aft.

    I think in your boat, the best seating will be on the floorboards (once you have them) just aft of the thwart, using the thwart as an armrest, or seated on the thwart, steering with a tiller extension. Or as far forward as you can get on the windward side bench. My boat has a similar set-up but no side benches. I've found that getting my weight as far forward as I can really helps keep the trim right for sailing.

    I agree that some adjustable ballast can help establish proper trim. Good for rowing, too--weight forward for windward, aft for downwind. That's very different from just making your boat 100# heavier with ipe floorboards.

    Tom
    You don't have to be prepared as long as you're willing to suffer the consequences.

    www.tompamperin.com

  15. #85
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    Default Re: Lowell Sailing Surf Dory 16'

    Quote Originally Posted by WI-Tom View Post
    The sad truth is, those stern benches look great, but they're not really for seating. If you do sit there, the trim will be all wrong with so much weight aft. That really matters in a small boat, especially for windward performance.
    requoted for truth

    see this all the time.

  16. #86
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    Default Re: Lowell Sailing Surf Dory 16'

    Floorboards: resting on the subframes?

    or on 2” joists to make everything level?
    Attached Images Attached Images

  17. #87
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    Default Re: Lowell Sailing Surf Dory 16'

    The lower the better, I'd say. Unless of course you plan to sleep aboard, which is when you would need your floorboards resting on the frames to make it level.

    Tom
    You don't have to be prepared as long as you're willing to suffer the consequences.

    www.tompamperin.com

  18. #88
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    Default Re: Lowell Sailing Surf Dory 16'

    My dory floorboards are in sections fitting in between each sawn frame, with cleats on which they rest on the underside. Cleats are the same thickness as the subframes. Work great. The frame sticks up enough to use it as a heel stretcher but I've built full foot length adjustable ones. Floor boards are taken out for the winter making it easier to clear snow and ice.
    Ben Fuller
    Ran Tan, Liten Kuhling, Tipsy, Tippy, Josef W., Merry Mouth, Imp, Macavity, Look Far, Flash and a quiver of other 'yaks.
    "Bound fast is boatless man."

  19. #89
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    Default Re: Lowell Sailing Surf Dory 16'

    Mine rest on the frames with cleats on the underside just to hold them together.

  20. #90
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    Default Re: Lowell Sailing Surf Dory 16'

    I was dropping off some repairs at a local boat dealer one day maybe 10 years ago, and in their big yard, along with all the glass boats was a Lowell dory in nice shape. It was a big one with three or four rowing stations and the sail rig. I asked the shop owner where it came from. He told me that it had been donated to a local scout troop, but they didn't have any use for it, so they wanted to sell it............ (huh???) This is in a town with a five mile wide lake right in the middle of it and three or four others next to the big one. I didn't have the cash to buy it, or a crew to sail and row it, but what a waste! Maybe now the scouts just sit there and play with their phones.

  21. #91
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    Default Re: Lowell Sailing Surf Dory 16'

    It would be much easier to have them just rest on the frames, for sure. But there is a main frame member right where my foot would land when stepping over the mid thwart bench to get to the mast. In order to step over I would have to either step on it, or take a big step over it. I don't care for either option.

    As far as the heel stretcher, I don't think any of the main frames are in a good position for rowing. I would have to make something regardless. A few holes and dowels in the floor boards should suffice for something portable.

    I made the tall cleat already. I can always cut them shorter.

    How did you guys attach the floorboards to the cleats? My floor boards are only 1/2" thick. I can screw from the top, but that doesn't leave a lot of room for dowel plugs.

  22. #92
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    Default Re: Lowell Sailing Surf Dory 16'

    I gave the screw heads a dollop of a beeswax/rosin mix so didn't worry about plugs on a painted set of floorboards. I never fasten floorboards to the boat frames as that is the place I have seen problems in the long haul. You can 't clean the boat out and you introduce a potential place for water to get in on the top of the frames. On a bright set, I just let the heads of the wood screws show. You can line the slots up neatly if you want. My stretcher is a pretty large affairs as it supports my full foot, and I just use bolts with wing nuts run through gaps in the floorboards. They pull against a block under the floor boards.

    Someone did talk about a tiller extension so you can reach the tiller from the center thwart from which you should be sailing. A simple bit of line can serve as a universal joint.
    Ben Fuller
    Ran Tan, Liten Kuhling, Tipsy, Tippy, Josef W., Merry Mouth, Imp, Macavity, Look Far, Flash and a quiver of other 'yaks.
    "Bound fast is boatless man."

  23. #93
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    Default Re: Lowell Sailing Surf Dory 16'

    I think mine is screwed from the cleat into the board. Mine are softwood, and some of the screws have pulled free. But the boat is 30 years old.

  24. #94
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    Default Re: Lowell Sailing Surf Dory 16'

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Fuller View Post
    I never fasten floorboards to the boat frames as that is the place I have seen problems in the long haul.
    I used Ipe for my boards. After 3/4s of a day making really nasty sawdust I just realized, good for durability, bad if left unfastened in a capsize. "Ironwood" does not float!

  25. #95
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    Default Re: Lowell Sailing Surf Dory 16'

    Some people are allergic to Ipe - if you get a sliver from it, remove it right away

  26. #96
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    Default Re: Lowell Sailing Surf Dory 16'

    Quote Originally Posted by Schooner36 View Post
    Some people are allergic to Ipe - if you get a sliver from it, remove it right away
    I hadn't heard that. I know the dust is very fine. I did most of the cutting to length outside, but I was resawing it inside. I can't believe I was able to resaw 5/4 x 5-1/2" boards in half. Sometimes a 20" bandsaw with a 1" blade comes in very handy. I have a dust collector system so it kept it to a minimum.

    As far as slivers, I tend to remove then all immediately, regardless of species. But my next operation is to round over all the corners, including edges, on the router and then sand a bit. There shouldn't be any slivers.

    I heard they built the Coney Island boardwalk with Ipe and it lasted 30 years. They are now replacing it with concrete. Sad.

  27. #97
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    Default Re: Lowell Sailing Surf Dory 16'

    Several years ago, my friend got the job of replacing some of the rotting wood deck on the battleship - Spirit of Massachusetts. The original was full 2x4 Burmese teak over the steel deck. The contract called for using Ipe, it is not cheap , but much less than teak. She was built just before WW2. He cut into the first 2x4 and broke out in hives, and he has never had a wood allergy problem. He called me to go come over and make another cut while he stayed away. No reaction, so I worked with another guy to do it. We welded studs to the deck and bolted the Ipe to them. We had to get carbide bits to drill the holes and for the bungs over the nuts and big washers. The Ipe was milled with the caulking groove and someone else made the 1 1/2' bungs.

  28. #98
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    Default Re: Lowell Sailing Surf Dory 16'

    For my dory in case of capsize I drilled some small holes in the half frames and use seine twin to tie them in.
    Ben Fuller
    Ran Tan, Liten Kuhling, Tipsy, Tippy, Josef W., Merry Mouth, Imp, Macavity, Look Far, Flash and a quiver of other 'yaks.
    "Bound fast is boatless man."

  29. #99
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    Default Re: Lowell Sailing Surf Dory 16'

    Floorboards mostly done. Waiting on screws. Who knew you can't buy #10 x 1-1/2" silicon bronze slotted, flat head, wood screws at HD?

    Maybe one good thing about raising the floorboards: I can add about 1-1/2" of flotation foam below. Just some rigid closed-cell insulation board. Thoughts?

    IMG_1699.jpg

    IMG_1701.jpg

    IMG_1700.jpg
    Last edited by Alan Cohen; 08-05-2019 at 02:44 PM.

  30. #100
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    Default Re: Lowell Sailing Surf Dory 16'

    I wouldn't put flotation foam under the floorboards for two reasons.First you will increase the tendency for the boat to invert after a capsize,although a capsize may not be highly likely an inversion is a lot more troublesome to deal with.Secondly you will be dramatically increasing the chance of rot getting a toehold by reducing both the drainage and ventilation.I would give serious consideration to a pair of sausage shaped buoyancy bags beneath the side benches instead.

  31. #101
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    Default Re: Lowell Sailing Surf Dory 16'

    Got it. Makes sense. These bags would fit under the benches and in between the main frames. https://nautos-usa.com/collections/b...10-quot-holt-1

    I could fit 4. But at $42 each, that's double the price of all the exotic hardwood I used for the floor for some cheap vinyl. Ouch.

  32. #102
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    Default Re: Lowell Sailing Surf Dory 16'

    Floation under floorboards implies that they are screwed to frames instead of being cleated underneath and being removable. When they are screwed to the frames, the boards themselves may not have a problem but the frames often do, and it is pretty impossible to get the dirt out. Sometimes in light construction you need to do this for structural reasons or to get toe holds which we see in working peapods.

    If the Holt bags don't suit, think about your end compartments. Likely that there will be a canoe end bag that would fit them. Under the benches I have now gone the big yellow roller route because I can use them to help move the boat. One of the nice things about traditonal construction is that you can use straps for side bags that pull the bags into the corner between the seats and the side so no additional hardware is needed. On one boat I weave a line up and down in the space between the seats and the sides around the frames, gives me a great place to which to lash and on the underside to fasten buoyancy.

    If you are really concerned about costs, I saw buoyancy made of closed cell foam onto which canvas had been glued using construction adhesive.
    Ben Fuller
    Ran Tan, Liten Kuhling, Tipsy, Tippy, Josef W., Merry Mouth, Imp, Macavity, Look Far, Flash and a quiver of other 'yaks.
    "Bound fast is boatless man."

  33. #103
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    Default Re: Lowell Sailing Surf Dory 16'

    I use these in my ultralight canoe and Folbot kayak. They are cheap, strong and simple.
    https://www.intexcorp.com/replacemen...mariner-68373/

  34. #104
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    Default Re: Lowell Sailing Surf Dory 16'

    I have another issue. This is my first non-stayed mast. Because the mast partner is also a rowing seat, there is no hardware on the partner itself. The main and jib halyards as well as the downhaul cleats are all on the mast. Consequently, there is nothing keeping the mast from twisting in its step. I guess I could smack a little wedge in the partner, but that seems rather inelegant. What is convention for this?

    I could cut a slot in the bottom of the mast, and then glue a key into the step?
    00W0W_eUJpLRtU4DY_1200x900.jpg
    Last edited by Alan Cohen; 08-07-2019 at 11:40 AM.

  35. #105
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    Default Re: Lowell Sailing Surf Dory 16'

    Maybe run the downhaul thorough a fairlead and block at the center mast cleat position aft to the port side of the CB case, opposite the centerboard cleat? That would give me downhaul control aft as well as help keep the mast from twisting.

    00U0U_diXdCoVrp5d_1200x900 copy.jpg

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