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Thread: Lowell Sailing Surf Dory 16'

  1. #36
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    Default Re: Lowell Sailing Surf Dory 16'

    Quote Originally Posted by CundysHarbor View Post
    Nice package. You are probably aware that dories seem pretty tiddly initially but pick up stability quickly as they are heeled. You may want to make a longer tiller for single handling. Dories like to be balanced so you will want to be nearly amidships when sailing solo.
    Copy that, thanks. The tiller looks pretty long already. A small extension could be worked out.


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  2. #37
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    Default Re: Lowell Sailing Surf Dory 16'

    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Cohen View Post
    Got her rigged-up in the driveway. No surprises. Nice bronze oarlocks and an 8' and 8-1/2' pair of oars along with a sculling oar.
    Looks great--enjoy! The yard position looks much better now that you've tightened things up on the rigging.

    From the photo in post #34, looks like a bit more downhaul tension would help to get the sail setting right. Right now you have a crease running from clew to throat--typically, you want a crease running from tack to peak instead. If you have it right, that tack-to-peak crease disappears when you're actually sailing, and the sail fills with wind.

    Especially with a standing lugsail, you'll want good downhaul tension; lug sailors often use a multi-part downhaul.

    Tom
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  3. #38
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    Default Re: Lowell Sailing Surf Dory 16'

    Quote Originally Posted by WI-Tom View Post
    Looks great--enjoy! The yard position looks much better now that you've tightened things up on the rigging.

    From the photo in post #34, looks like a bit more downhaul tension would help to get the sail setting right. Right now you have a crease running from clew to throat--typically, you want a crease running from tack to peak instead. If you have it right, that tack-to-peak crease disappears when you're actually sailing, and the sail fills with wind.

    Especially with a standing lugsail, you'll want good downhaul tension; lug sailors often use a multi-part downhaul.

    Tom
    Thanks, Tom. That crease is from the way the sail was folded before winding around the yard for stowage. It has sat curled up in that bag for 25 years without nary a breather.

    Speaking of stowage, there are a couple of nice spar cradles that hold the mast and yard tidy. They just loosely nestle between frames and are lashed down to a thwart cleat.

    D7486487-C880-4F42-A54D-B043761B81B2.jpg
    Last edited by Alan Cohen; 06-28-2019 at 05:18 PM.

  4. #39
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    Default

    Wow, looks great. I'm another vote for moving the halyard up the yard s bit, but you'll see what works. I wouldn't change all the lines until you've got everything sorted.

    Sent from my CPH1851 using Tapatalk

  5. #40
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    Default Re: Lowell Sailing Surf Dory 16'

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Y View Post
    Wow, looks great. I'm another vote for moving the halyard up the yard s bit, but you'll see what works. I wouldn't change all the lines until you've got everything sorted.
    Yeah, it's kind off in no man's land between standing and balanced lug. The jib rigging is not very solo friendly. Just bronze cleats and no cam cleats. At 88sqft for the main, if I move it forward and add a sprit boom I'll bet she'll solo just fine if I can the jib.

  6. #41
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    Default Re: Lowell Sailing Surf Dory 16'

    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Cohen View Post
    Yeah, it's kind off in no man's land between standing and balanced lug.
    Not sure what you mean here--a standing lugsail has the tack of the sail at the mast, with the luff of the sail NOT parallel to the mast. A balance lug has the tack forward of the mast, with the luff most often basically parallel to the mast. Your boat has a standing lugsail.

    My own boat has a boomless standing lug about that size (85 sq ft) and no jib. I like it fine that way--nice and simple.

    Tom
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  7. #42
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    Default Re: Lowell Sailing Surf Dory 16'

    Quote Originally Posted by WI-Tom View Post
    Not sure what you mean here--a standing lugsail has the tack of the sail at the mast, with the luff of the sail NOT parallel to the mast. A balance lug has the tack forward of the mast, with the luff most often basically parallel to the mast. Your boat has a standing lugsail.

    My own boat has a boomless standing lug about that size (85 sq ft) and no jib. I like it fine that way--nice and simple.

    Tom
    Thanks Tom; I like simple.

    My bad on the lug comparison and comprehension. I was under the impression that the yard position determined balanced or standing lug, when it is actually the tack location. Bad nomenclature: "balanced lug".

    I gather from Todd's post: http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...29#post1827429, that the position of the main halyard on the yard is critical only as it affects the counterforce at the peak. This counterforce is necessary to provide the desired luff tension. I guess how much is the correct luff tension is the question.

    I saw the pic of your boat on your website. I like it. I will try and sail mine with the jib at first, but it might just make for a more leisurely ride without. We'll see. It seems these boats were sold with a standing lug as standard equipment and the jib was an accessory. I'm not sure how much re-engineering, if any, went into the mainsail design with to without the jib. So I'm guessing the boat will balance just fine without it. It will be easy enough to find out.

    My intensions for this boat are simple as well, if not easy. I would consider it quite the adventurous hobby, to try and squeeze as much performance out of a very traditional boat, using very tradition means while learning all the necessary sailing arts along the way and enjoying myself safely and utterly in the process.
    Last edited by Alan Cohen; 06-30-2019 at 02:04 PM.

  8. #43
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    Default Re: Lowell Sailing Surf Dory 16'

    I'm looking at the cleats where the seller has the jib sheets rigged. They look too inboard to me.


    00U0U_diXdCoVrp5d_1200x900.jpg

  9. #44
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    Default Re: Lowell Sailing Surf Dory 16'

    The closer inboard you sheet the jib,the higher you will point.Two factors might impede the pointing;backwinding the mainsail or having a centreboard that isn't efficiently shaped.Sheeting outboard too far condemns you to permanently sailing further off the wind.A small,simple, open boat doesn't have the instrumentation to determine the best VMG and thats what you need to search for.Having found the optimum sheeting angle you then need to locate cleats so that they work dependably.

  10. #45
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    Default Re: Lowell Sailing Surf Dory 16'

    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Cohen View Post
    I'm looking at the cleats where the seller has the jib sheets rigged. They look too inboard to me.
    --- That's the traditional position on the Lowell dories, I believe. --Wade

  11. #46
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    Default Re: Lowell Sailing Surf Dory 16'

    Got her wet yesterday afternoon for the maiden voyage. No wind to speak of, so I left the sail rig at home. My first time rowing a boat in a very long time. I forgot how much work it is. I was exhausted after 2 hours on the water. Luckily I had my son David along for some youthful assistance.

    IMG_1619.jpg

    8-1/2' oars at midthwart position:

    IMG_1628.jpg

    I dropped the centerboard for kicks. It drops like a rock. Must be weighted. Although I left it at home too, I might need to build a kick-up rudder.
    Last edited by Alan Cohen; 07-10-2019 at 09:20 AM.

  12. #47
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    Default Re: Lowell Sailing Surf Dory 16'

    Wicked nice!

  13. #48
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    Default Re: Lowell Sailing Surf Dory 16'

    Quote Originally Posted by John Meachen View Post
    The closer inboard you sheet the jib,the higher you will point.Two factors might impede the pointing;backwinding the mainsail or having a centreboard that isn't efficiently shaped.Sheeting outboard too far condemns you to permanently sailing further off the wind.A small,simple, open boat doesn't have the instrumentation to determine the best VMG and thats what you need to search for.Having found the optimum sheeting angle you then need to locate cleats so that they work dependably.
    Just so. I had to move them inboard on Peerie Maa. They used to be on the gunwale, but she has such powerful shoulders that they were too far apart.
    finished 008.jpg
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  14. #49
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    Default Re: Lowell Sailing Surf Dory 16'

    Nick confirms the point in that the jib will still be operating at the same angle with respect to the wind.What inboard sheeting does is to permit the boat to aim a bit higher and it is fairly important to have something that isn't a crude plank underwater to make the boat proceed in the direction that you are aiming it.

  15. #50
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    Default Re: Lowell Sailing Surf Dory 16'

    If you rowed for two hours after a long layoff, you must be in great shape.
    I got tired rowing a mile on my first outing this year.

  16. #51
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    Default Re: Lowell Sailing Surf Dory 16'

    Quote Originally Posted by johngsandusky View Post
    If you rowed for two hours after a long layoff, you must be in great shape.
    I got tired rowing a mile on my first outing this year.
    It's very possible that it just felt like 2 hours!

  17. #52
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    Default Re: Lowell Sailing Surf Dory 16'

    On a nice day, gentle rowing is more restful that walking. If you want a work out, you can get it but you can also rest in motion.

  18. #53
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    Default Re: Lowell Sailing Surf Dory 16'

    Took her out for a sail yesterday. 8-10kt winds. Solo. No sailing pics. She was quite the handful!

    ssss.jpg

    I took my time getting her rigged.

    First issue, the bow dock line wrapped around a trailer bunk and I gave her a good yank while pulling away from the ramp. No damage...whew. Not very graceful though. No one in the vicinity was misled into thinking I knew what I was doing.

    Parked the trailer and realized I forgot to put in the drain plug. Took on 100 gallons of water without moving! Back to the parking lot for the trailer and a do-over.

    The wind was kind and blew me away from the dock without effort on my part. I moved forward to hoist the yard (downhaul was pre-cleated). Mainsail was flapping angrily, with a 2" Harken block whipping from the clew. I only fell on my ass in the middle of the boat once!

    As soon as I secured the main sheet, we were off. Winds were swirly, so it was difficult to get a bearing, but I was moving. Although I also hoisted the jib, there was no getting to the jib sheets while holding onto tiller and main sheet for dear life. It just flapped in the breeze for the entire trip, winding itself around the oar handles again, and again, and again.

    The only way to secure the mainsheet was in starboard and port aft gunwale cleats. But the wind was so gusty, I was not comfortable hardening off the mainsheet. So I had to hold it against the wind the entire trip. Two pulleys assist, but it was not fun.

    Also, the downhaul needed a good tug to lift the peak of the yard, but it wasn't worth the effort given the lively windage. The sail looked like crap though.

    I dipped the rail under once and took on maybe 20 gallons of water, but I had to get close several times just to make enough headway to tack.

    FWIW, the centerboard is steel. It also hums annoyingly doing more than a couple of kts. Gotta fix that.

    Also, the rudder does have a lifting mechanism. I'm not sure how to rig it, but there is a pulley mid-rudder and two holes in the transom that I assume is for the lines and the small cleat is to tie it off in the up position.

    IMG_1638.jpg

    IMG_1639.jpg

    Rather than trying to do a smooth dock approach under sail, I dropped 100' out, hoisted the centerboard and rowed in. Not as easy as it sounds, it was against the wind and I neglected to tie the rudder off and it, and the wind, were fighting me the the whole way. Again, not very graceful.

    All in all, only my ego was bruised and my body sore. I give myself a C- for the day. Not great since you get a D just for getting out there and coming back with the boat and yourself intact.

    I need to decide if I'm going to sail this boat as traditionally built, or customize it to make it more user friendly.
    Last edited by Alan Cohen; 07-13-2019 at 11:18 AM.

  19. #54
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    Default Re: Lowell Sailing Surf Dory 16'

    Well, thanks for sharing so honestly, and congrats on your first sail.
    My two cents: boats should be enjoyed first and looked at second, so make the mods you need to enjoy it.
    But first, I'd wait for more forumites to chime in. There's a wealth of sailing knowledge here and there may be ways you can have your cake and eat it too.

    Again, congrats!



    Kevin
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  20. #55
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    Default Re: Lowell Sailing Surf Dory 16'

    "Experience starts when you begin." - Pete Culler

    Congrats!

  21. #56
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    Default Re: Lowell Sailing Surf Dory 16'

    Congratulations for getting started and getting back to the ramp without rowing for miles or getting towed.

    Go out when the wind is blowing about 5 or less and not gusty, then you will be learning the finer points, not just hanging on.

  22. #57
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    Default Re: Lowell Sailing Surf Dory 16'

    Quote Originally Posted by Schooner36 View Post
    Congratulations for getting started and getting back to the ramp without rowing for miles or getting towed.

    Go out when the wind is blowing about 5 or less and not gusty, then you will be learning the finer points, not just hanging on.
    In hind site, I could have easily tied in a reef and been much happier. The goal yesterday was to just get used to the boat, not break any speed records, or me, or the boat.

    Live (without regret) and learn (without ego).

    There is a wooden boat show in Toms River, NJ next Saturday. I might have to bring her.

  23. #58
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    Default Re: Lowell Sailing Surf Dory 16'

    I think the first two mods will be a sprit boom and an upgraded downhaul. Right now I have a 3' line direct from the tack to a cleat on the mast. Not much leverage there. It could use at least one block. I also need to route the jib sheets aft of the midtwhwart bench. Would adding two cam cleats be heresy?

    I think I'd like to add a floor as well. This way it would keep bilge water below my stuff.

  24. #59
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    Default Re: Lowell Sailing Surf Dory 16'

    Assuming this is the correct sail plan for my boat, and since it came with the documentation I believe it is, what size sprit boom for a 9'0" foot? 10'? I have a jib, so too long might not be ideal.

    IMG_1578.jpg

    Thinking of something like this:

    bwb9-l.jpg

  25. #60
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    Default Re: Lowell Sailing Surf Dory 16'

    It is a learning experience for sure. My Lowell dory had a smaller rig, so I could hold jib and mainsheet in one hand with tiller in the other. Later I innovated something I really liked.

    It was a plywood disc with a handhold cut into it, and two offset cam-cleats with a brass door handle in front through which to run all the sheets. The mainsheet went in one cleat and the jib in the other (the other jib sheet ran through the brass door handle and hung loose). This device was itself tethered to the boat (center thwart).

    Now I could easily hold both sheets, adjust them as needed, and with enough play in the tether, I could pull in or push away the device in gusts. If the wind was not dramatic I would just adjust the sheets to all on the device on the tether, leaving one hand free, though the sheets were always on my lap so that I could release them quickly. For dramatic sailing, I would cleat the jib sheet but control the mainsheet in my hand.

    This device worked very well, made things more enjoyable. I only capsized this boat once but it wasn't because of the device.

    My boats now are outrigger canoes with gunnel-mounted camcleats for main and mizzen. Small outriggers don't have the same knock-down characteristics as monohulls do -- but they are worse in some ways, because when they are ready to go over, it all happens in a half-second, so camcleating the sheets comes with its attendant warnings. The mainsheet is always in my lap and often loosely in my hand. Even with a 2:1 purchase the main sheet of a 75 SF sail can become tiring after a while.

    Before I attached the mainsheet cleat to the gunnel, I used a derivative of the device I mentioned for the old dory: I called it my "third hand" and it was a camcleat mounted on a short stick with a hole in the end for a tether. I sometimes tethered it to my PFD waistbelt (it was a heavy belt suitable for a personal tether), and sometimes tethered it to the boat within easy reach. (the mizzen could left set-and-forget mostly since it would round up the boat if the main was released when on the wind). Either way, it eased the strain my on hand. The third-hand was also pressed into service for emergency use, as when something tore out once and I had to finagle a cleat.

    I have some photos of these things here: https://www.instructables.com/id/A-T...-Other-Things/

  26. #61
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    Default Re: Lowell Sailing Surf Dory 16'

    Question on sail shape theory. Here is the 88sqft sail on my boat compared to the 89sqft sail on Mik Storer's OZ Racer.

    I'm planning on adding a sprit boom to my dory and was wondering what the difference in these sails would be. Does it affect the location and position of the boom?

    Can I assume a 10' boom would be appropriate on a 9' footed sail?

    Screen Shot 2019-07-18 at 9.36.34 PM.jpg

    PDRacer-record-downwind.jpg
    Last edited by Alan Cohen; 07-18-2019 at 09:00 PM.

  27. #62
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    Default Re: Lowell Sailing Surf Dory 16'

    They have some nice features -- automatic vanging and less head-banging perhaps. A bit harder during reefing.

  28. #63
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    Default Re: Lowell Sailing Surf Dory 16'

    I had a Wood's Hole Sprit Sail boat (about 1905) that originally had a boomless sprit sail. I eventually made a sprit boom that made all the difference. Particularly cured the downwind roll endemic to boomless sprit rigs. I agree with Ian on this.

  29. #64
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    Default Re: Lowell Sailing Surf Dory 16'

    I sailed a Melonseed with a sprit and sprit boom, I liked it. I also added a curved sprit boom to my sprit yawl dory. I though it was an improvement. You can adjust the boom to a height and angle that works best. I would make it longer than ten feet, overlap at the mast is handy, and it's easier to shorten than lengthen a stick if you wish.

  30. #65
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    Default Re: Lowell Sailing Surf Dory 16'

    Took in the Toms River Wooden Boat Show yesterday. Only 101*.

    DSCF0246 (1).jpg

  31. #66
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    Default Re: Lowell Sailing Surf Dory 16'

    But a very nice view.
    I worked outdoors yesterday.

  32. #67
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    Default Re: Lowell Sailing Surf Dory 16'

    Still mulling over the sprit boom addition. I have some really sweet old-growth 5/4 doug fir to make one, but I want to see if I like it before using it. I found a nice piece of pine dowel 10'2" long x 1-1/2" in diameter at HD. It is dead straight.

    IMG_1657.jpg

    Any reason I can't make as slot in one end to fit onto the main halyard, and narrow the other to fit through a loop at the clew? At least temporarily.

    I ran across this video



    Around 4:40 he just slips a boom in when he starts a run. I like that.
    Last edited by Alan Cohen; 07-22-2019 at 08:44 PM.

  33. #68
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    Default Re: Lowell Sailing Surf Dory 16'

    Nothing wrong with testing it out. I might try to use line on both ends.

  34. #69
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    Default Re: Lowell Sailing Surf Dory 16'

    I think I made a management decision. I already own a Goat Island Skiff sail from RSS. It's 105sqft, about 17 more than the Lowell dory without jib. It has 3 sets of reef points. I just love the way the dimensions of this sail looks, and I know they work very well.

    Screen Shot 2019-07-24 at 8.52.59 AM.jpg

    I want to use this sail set up as a balanced lug with a boom I could either lace to the foot of the main or fly loose-footed. I might try to keep the mainsheet off the rudder to keep the cabin free but there is a nice spot for a cam cleat block on the centerboard case:

    IMG_1649.jpg
    Last edited by Alan Cohen; 07-24-2019 at 08:46 AM.

  35. #70
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    Default Re: Lowell Sailing Surf Dory 16'

    Sounds good.

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