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Thread: Stitch & Glue Canoe - Fisher Prospector

  1. #1
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    Default Stitch & Glue Canoe - Fisher Prospector

    The goal is to eventually build a stitch-and-glue sailboat, but figured I should start with something smaller to make mistakes on. This is that story.

    I'm building the 15'8 "Prospector" design by Selway Fisher. It has 5 planks per side, with a little tumblehome, which gives it a nice rounded shape, contrary to many S&G canoe designs I've seen, which tend to look a little angular. The drawings look fine, but the plans contain very little information, leaving a lot up to guesswork or other sources. You'd be hard pressed to build this boat without some auxiliary instruction, which I'm getting from a couple books.

    The plans say this can be built in 4, 5, or 6mm marine plywood (without giving guidelines to help you decide). I opted for 5mm, assuming it'd be the sweet spot on the scale of light to durable. Ended up going with 5mm Okoume.

    This design is symmetric left and right and front and rear, so it's made from 4 identical sets of 5 planks. You mark out one set, then use that as a template for the rest. The plans as given show how to mark out the planks to fit on 4 sheets of plywood, but they hint that in can be done on 3. Who would want to buy an extra sheet of sixty some dollar plywood? They say approximately how this can be done - shift up plank 3, flip planks 4 and 5. However this means you have to recalculate all the measurements for those three planks. I ended up guessing at an offset, marked that out, then used the original measurements from that line, which worked pretty well.

    I took a picture of the plans, color-coded each plank, and played around with them a little in inkscape. Turns out the remaining 15 pieces can fit on two sheets of plywood, meaning I could've cut the first set to the original measurements while still only needing 3 sheets of ply. This is what I ended up cutting, so now I have a decent sized chunk of marine plywood left over for later use.



    Finally ready to get started! Step one is lofting.



    First set of panels cut! I used a circular saw set to the shallowest cut that makes it through the sheet, and cut on top of and directly into a sacrificial piece of cheap ply I found on the side of the road. I started off with a $4 plywood sawblade from Home Depot, but ended up upgrading to a fancy 40 tooth Diablo blade I got in a two-for-one deal. What a difference that made! Don't cheap out on blades, folks.



    Next I then planed the panels together down to the line on the original plank. All I had at the time was an old Stanley No. 5 jack plane, which worked pretty well, though it's not great for curves (it's designed to eliminate curves after all). I later picked up a No. 60 1/2 low angle block plane which would've been much more suitable to the task.



    [Interlude] I needed a desk, so I took a short break from the canoe. This was the simplest design I could think of, and it works pretty well, although I can't say I recommend exposed miter cuts if you're trying to do something fast...



    Back to the canoe. The plans called for a simple butt joint, reinforced with fiberglass tape. After joining the first set planks, I realized I'd save myself a lot of marking and drilling time if I drilled out the holes for the stitches on all 4 panels in a set at once. That worked out great.

    Turns out it's not as easy as you might think to align a 4 inch butt joint when you have an 8 foot long plank in either direction. Next time I'll be sure to use that flat part as the reference for the rest of the panel - I'd shaved it down some to get the panels to match, and was no longer sure what was the true line. It'd be nice to have a horizontal mark that you can use to make sure the planks were joined at the correct angle. I settled on doing the left and right planks on top of each other so at least they'd be consistent, then I eyeballed the curve along the edges to get something that looked right. A couple zip ties in the drill holes were great for keeping the two planks aligned.

    I mixed up some epoxy and made a sandwich - parchment paper, fiberglass/epoxy, plywood, fiberglass/epoxy, parchment paper, fiberglass/epoxy, plywood, fiberglass/epoxy, parchment paper, something heavy.

    Twenty pieces of wood are now ten!



    Next up, joining it all together into something that hopefully looks like a canoe.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Stitch & Glue Canoe - Fisher Prospector

    A great start! I can't wait to see it progress along.
    -JP

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Stitch & Glue Canoe - Fisher Prospector

    Yes, very cool. I think you're going to love it.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Stitch & Glue Canoe - Fisher Prospector

    Excellent!

    Kevin
    There are two kinds of boaters: those who have run aground, and those who lie about it.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Stitch & Glue Canoe - Fisher Prospector

    I got pulled away from this project for a little while. I got my hands on a cheap sunfish that needed a rudder and daggerboard, so I took some time to make those just to get out on the water. Between that, travel, and a couple small projects, this canoe sat on the sidelines for longer than I'd intended, but now I'm back at it.

    I laced together the bottom edges of the two bottom panels with zip-ties, then opened it up and laced on the second set of panels. The curves did not line up very well at all here, and I knew the reason why - I’d done an atrocious job of truing up the butt ends of the bottom panels, and had significantly shortened them.


    I was hoping this would be close enough to ignore, but when I got it lined up with panel 2, it was evident that wasn’t the case. I ended up taking it all apart again, cutting the bottom panels in half, and adding in inserts. This didn’t go smoothly either, but I eventually got something workable.





    A big takeaway from this is that it’s better to be accurate than neat. That is, maybe your line is a little wiggly, or not quite square. Stitch and glue can fill in that sort of minor discrepancy no problem. Resist the urge to plane down the line until it’s smooth, strive instead for accuracy.


    Back to making forward progress now - here are the bottom three sets of panels stitched up.





    After joining all ten panels, I stuck in the bulkhead forms. In this picture they’re just held loosely with masking tape, but I did end up tacking some finishing nails in to hold the panels in place. After some false starts, I got the best results joining the top panels to the forms and letting the other panels rest in place.



    Going into this stage, I thought you’d join everything together and call it a day. This was not the case. The ends needed a little finessing with a plane to get an even curve, and many sections of the canoe had one plank that wanted to stick out further than the one adjoining it.


    Some suggest you round over or bevel the edges of your panels so they don’t meet at a corner. I wish I’d done this, particularly for areas where planks join at sharper angles - the two corners want to slide past one another, rather than sit even.


    I ended up using a few more finishing nails to hold a couple panels in place. The bottom panels didn’t want to make the twist necessary at the very ends, so I ended up sticking a spring clamp on there - with the aid of a small nail to keep it from sliding off. Masking tape was perfect for joining the ends of the canoe; easy to work with and easy to adjust.


    I’d initially stitched the hull together with plastic zip-ties. These worked great for the most part, though I’d over-tightened a few originally, so I cut them off and used new ones. They go on fast. Zip-ties, however, can only tighten so much, so for sections where I needed to close gaps, I ended up switching to baling wire. This worked great, though it was a little slower. I also used masking tape at various spots throughout to help hold things in place.


    (This picture is before all the adjustments)

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Stitch & Glue Canoe - Fisher Prospector

    Next up is filleting. I have cabosil and phenolic microballoons as thickeners. Can anyone recommend a ratio? I've heard 50/50 filler and epoxy, does that sound right? What about for the filler? What ratio of cabosil to microballoons should I use? Do I measure by volume or weight?

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Stitch & Glue Canoe - Fisher Prospector

    Is there even a " right " ratio ?

    I have always mixed in just enough for the mix to hold its shape.

    Brushing some unthickened resin onto the plywood along the proposed fillet line can prevent resin starvation , as the raw plywood draws in the resin.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Stitch & Glue Canoe - Fisher Prospector



    Print it onto some canvas and mount it on a stretcher. Very modern art.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Stitch & Glue Canoe - Fisher Prospector

    The color coding helped keep me sane

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Stitch & Glue Canoe - Fisher Prospector

    I wouldn't bother with micro balloons..at least untill you start the fairing process. they are a bit tricky to use and make the resulting mixture a bit on the "runny" side- not good when you have a lot of vertical surfaces to trowel in before your mixture starts to set. ditto on Beams's suggestion of saturating the raw wood with neat epoxy..... the boat looks good!
    Last edited by the_gr8t_waldo; 03-05-2019 at 10:25 AM.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Stitch & Glue Canoe - Fisher Prospector

    Looking good...lots of joints to straighten and fair! I've found that the different thickeners require different amounts to achieve the same consistency with a given amount of epoxy. The structural fill seems to require less to gain the mayo or peanut butter consistency than the fairing filler. I usually add it as I'm mixing so that I don't put in too much and have to add epoxy (don't ask me how I know that!).

    Thanks for posting, I like the color coded panels as well.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Stitch & Glue Canoe - Fisher Prospector

    This stage took a lot longer than Iíd expected (though a month away from home didn't help), but now I have a hull!

    First up, I tacked the seams together:



    I read a fair bit about how to get smooth fillets, for which I made up spreaders of various radii. However, Since this canoe is made from 10 panels, there are a lot of shallow angles where panels meet, meaning I canít get a nice round fillet. I ended up mostly just smearing stuff on top as best I could, but it was pretty unsatisfying. I'd be interested to hear how others deal with filleting obtuse angles. It was pretty cool to pull out the forms and all the zip-ties, though.

    Next up, I filled in the gaps in the fillets, immediately put fiberglass tape over the seams, and saturated the tape with epoxy. I did this in sessions of two seams at a time (left and right), over 5 total sessions. Each one was probably an hour or so.



    I had some difficulty getting the tape saturated, so I ended up using a lot of epoxy, which led to drips, so I smeared those out on the rest of the wood along with the leftover epoxy, since I was planning on sealing it with epoxy later anyways.

    Putting the tape on the wet fillets means I get good adhesion, and that I donít need to smooth out the fillets before applying the tape. The downside is that the taping process had a tendency to smear around my fillets, messing up my not-that-neat-to-begin-with work. I initially put down a coat of epoxy, then the tape, then more epoxy, but later switched to tape directly on fillets, and epoxy only afterwards. That seemed to help limit smearing.

    Hereís the canoe with all the seams taped.





    Iíd originally hoped to only varnish the inside, showing off the seams and all. However, it ended up looking messier than Iíd like, so now I think Iíll paint inside and out. Still happy with how it's progressing, though.

    Iím planning on sheathing the exterior of the canoe with fiberglass, out of an abundance of caution. Thereís a relatively minor kink in the side of the canoe, where it doesnít follow as nice a curve as Iíd like. My plan is to install the inwales first, and maybe dry-fit the thwarts, so when I sheath the canoe, itíll lock in a smoother shape. Any tips on that or suggestions for how to work out that kink?

    The gunnels will be made from cypress, affixed with silicone-bronze boat nails and epoxy, and finished raw. The exposed bronze nail heads should be pretty.

    Iím uncertain how to do the breasthooks. The plans say they can be made of hardwood, but the ends of the canoe have a considerable curve to them, so I couldnít match the profile unless I shaped it from a three inch or thicker piece of wood. Iíve seen some pictures of canoes with mini breasthooks combined with a thwart that doubles as a handle. That seems easier to fit in the curve, and itíd still provide the rigidity of a full breasthook. How do other people deal with this? Reshape the gunnel lines so the ends are flat? Seems like that'd look weird.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Stitch & Glue Canoe - Fisher Prospector

    Thanks for this blog. Your honesty about what doesn't work is particularly useful for novices. I've probably learnt more from this page than the images from highly skilled builders who make perfection seem effortless.

    By the way, you can use a router with a pattern bit or flush trim bit to copy planks from master template. The bit has a bearing on the end that follows the template. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8YJ16ziI8M

    I'm surprised about your comments on the paucity of information from SF, such as fitting the plans on 3 sheets, and also not telling you to mark joint alignment lines on the planks before you cut them. They have a good reputation and I'd have expected more rigour in their plans/instructions.

    It reminds me of my graduate days in an engineering design office when I tried a 'similar but different' approach to explain several scenarios with one drawing. After a thorough dressing down (in front of the whole office) I redrew each of my 'similar but different' scenarios to find that one of them didn't work. As my boss said, "If you haven't bothered to draw it properly, how do you expect the contractor build it properly?". Lesson learnt.
    Last edited by Salcombe; 05-03-2019 at 03:34 AM.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Stitch & Glue Canoe - Fisher Prospector

    Sweet

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Stitch & Glue Canoe - Fisher Prospector

    Thanks for this blog. Your honesty about what doesn't work is particularly useful for novices. I've probably learnt more from this page than the images from highly skilled builders who make perfection seem effortless.
    Thank you, that's very good to hear! I was a little disappointed with the scarcity of information in the plans. To be fair, they do suggest buying their S&G boatbuilding book, but I already have two (Devlin's Boatbuilding and Instant Boats), and what I want more of is information specific to these plans. Oh well, I guess that just makes me think about things harder and makes the project more "mine".

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Stitch & Glue Canoe - Fisher Prospector

    Great!

    Kevin
    There are two kinds of boaters: those who have run aground, and those who lie about it.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Stitch & Glue Canoe - Fisher Prospector

    As mentioned previously, I decided to install the inwales before working on the outside of the hull. I also saw a canoe where the inwales butt up against the breasthooks, which sounded way easier than fitting the gunwales up to the fillets at the ends.
    I had some mahogany left over from a previous project, which I decided to make use of for the breasthooks. My wife suggested adding a strip of cypress to the middle to match the gunwales. I made a cardboard template, then cut and glued a rough blank.




    Here’s what they look like after some cleanup and test fitting. I traced the lip of a flowerpot to get the curve for the grip, then cut it out with a jigsaw. I used a spokeshave and smoothing plane to shape the outside.





    The gunwales are made from cypress, and I had the lumber store rip them to size for me, but later decided they needed to be substantially smaller if I had any chance of bending them. I don’t have a table saw, so I tried getting a rip guide for my circular saw and using that. Since I don’t have a 16 foot long workbench (or a workbench at all, for that matter), I tried ripping a cypress batten by crawling along the floor with a circular saw. This did not work out - I think I would’ve had better luck freehand following a line. My mom saved the day by bringing me her table saw to borrow for the weekend, and I got the cuts I needed.
    I cut a taper out of the lower edge of the inwales so they’d make the bend. This time I just marked the line and cut it with a circular saw and a few passes with my smoothing plane. As an aside - if you find yourself doing any work on the floor, I'd highly recommend kneepads - makes things much easier.





    Apparently you can never have enough clamps. I had a hell of a time getting the bend I needed when dry fitting the starboard inwale, so decided not to bring it quite to the top at the ends, which would also make it easier to get a reasonable looking curve that includes the breasthooks.

    On a run to the hardware store for more glue, I saw they had nice spring clamps for $1 each, so I picked up like a dozen, plus a couple more screw clamps. This made fitting the port inwale much easier, and I realize I totally could’ve made that curve. The plastic clamps are garbage, but I like the coated metal ones in the pic. I was also very happy to have a few screw clamps in the equation to really secure things while I forced the bend.




    The port inwale did give me another kind of trouble though - I glued the wrong side, but I figured it was no big deal, I’d just flip it around and put it on that way. However, I’d cut the ends at an angle to fit nicely against the breasthooks, so I had to cut off the last bit, and now I have a gap to fill.
    Since the breasthooks will also serve as a grip, I rounded over both sides of the arc with a router before installing it.

    Take a look at that in comparison to before I’d installed the inwales. What a difference that makes in getting a fair curve. Very happy to have done this before glassing the outside.





    Somewhere around this time I also shaped a thwart out of some cypress. I love the grain on this wood, can’t wait to see what it looks like varnished. This canoe has two thwarts, but I’m gonna make a yoke for the primary one.



  18. #18
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    Default Re: Stitch & Glue Canoe - Fisher Prospector

    A day or so later I flipped the hull. What a sight!




  19. #19
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    Default Re: Stitch & Glue Canoe - Fisher Prospector

    It's a thrill when the hull is planked up, because it looks like a boat. But it's surprising how much more there is to do.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Stitch & Glue Canoe - Fisher Prospector

    Just came across your build log and love it, especially talking about the glitches which we all make but are reluctant to admit. Great advice. Thanks. I might even try to make one myself. Keep the pics coming.

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Stitch & Glue Canoe - Fisher Prospector

    Here's a build log, and trip log, of a plywood canoe I designed and built.

    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...evitates/page2

    It would be interesting to paddle the 2 side by side...

  22. #22

    Default Re: Stitch & Glue Canoe - Fisher Prospector

    Nice job! I can imagine the work that goes into all those seams.

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Stitch & Glue Canoe - Fisher Prospector

    Thanks for the words of encouragement! I was a little behind on the build log, now I've done the outside of the seams (yes, so many seams...), laid down fiberglass, and started fairing. Will post pictures of all that once I finish fairing and put on a finishing coat of epoxy.

    Jeff, I've been eagerly following your First Mate build. It's a beautiful boat - I've been thinking of this build as a practice run before trying a First Mate. I'm amazed at how fast you put that together!

    Dave, I just looked over your build thread, looks like a fun project. I especially liked this quote:
    Making shavings from a nice piece of clear pine or spruce is vastly more pleasant than smoothing goops and glues.
    I'm starting to think I might try a lapstrake build for my next project (like the Phoenix III) for that reason, even if it's a bit more work overall.

  24. #24
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    Default Re: Stitch & Glue Canoe - Fisher Prospector

    In my last update, I mentioned difficulty bending the starboard inwales due to a lack of clamps. Turns out that was the second of two mistakes there. It's wood-to-wood, so I figured I'd use wood glue, which has always served me well in the past, plus I was gonna nail it after installing the outwales anyways. Apparently wood glue should not be used for bent laminations. It really needs to be clamped very firmly to bond well, and while I was able to bend the inwales enough, there was a bit of a twist, so the lower part didn't sit flush with the walls of the canoe, or at least that part wasn't forced together enough to adhere well. A section of the starboard inwale disconnected itself from the canoe wall, and I noticed a gap on the lower edge for a good section of the inwale. Ended up prying off close to half of the inwale to try to put some thickened epoxy in there. Bottom line - you really want something gap filling, and you really need enough clamps, or more likely double that.

    The port inwale at least looks secure - not sure I could remove it if I wanted to. Might end up just putting some mini fillets on the underside of both and counting on the nails to hold them in place.

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Stitch & Glue Canoe - Fisher Prospector

    Sheathing the canoe with fiberglass. Not my favorite part, but very satisfying once it was done.

    First up, I brushed the seams with unthickened resin, then I went in and filled the gaps with thickened resin




    And sanded them smooth, along with the wood. I should’ve taken more care here to not shape over the chines, maybe I should’ve used a sanding board, for instance. Ended up slightly shifting the chine line in a couple places, though it’s not that noticeable.





    I knew the glass would need to hang freely over the sides, so I rigged up one of the moulds from earlier in the process to support the canoe from the inside. I could’ve cut off the corners to accommodate the fillets, but this was good enough.





    Look at all that glass! Luckily I was able to use a single wide sheet. I cut some darts along the sides to get it to hang nicely, but that made fairing it later much more challenging - I think it would’ve made the curves just fine without them.






    Here it is with the laminate coat applied. I didn’t realize okoume plywood would look so pretty. I also put a strip of fiberglass tape over the center chine at the bow and stern.





    Those selvedge edges stick up like nobody’s business. I was left with a decent amount of fairing to do - figured I’d do a thickened fairing compound over the parts I knew were rough. Maybe should’ve done a second coat of raw epoxy to fill the weave first, I’m not sure.





    After some more sanding, I added another thin coat of epoxy. I ended up waiting overnight after that coat of epoxy before putting on a subsequent one, so I ended up having to sand again. This time I learned my lesson and did two coats of epoxy a few hours apart.


    The process that worked best for me was to mix up a batch, spread it haphazardly somewhat evenly over the whole hull with a flexible spreader, then go over the hull slowly and neaten it up. After that I went over the hull once or twice more, checking against the light for drips, playing with it until it starts to thicken. That left a coat that I think won’t need much sanding.

    I did all of the sanding with a 5 inch variable speed random orbital sander or with a 1/3 sheet sanding block. Would a proper 7 inch sander polisher have changed my life?

  26. #26
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    Default Re: Stitch & Glue Canoe - Fisher Prospector

    I’m very pleased with the end result - if I’d known it would look this good I might not have planned to paint it. Far too late for that now - there are patches of opaque fairing compound here and there, plus some visible scratches in the wood, since I didn’t plan on any of that showing.



  27. #27
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    Default Re: Stitch & Glue Canoe - Fisher Prospector

    Looking smart.

    Now to make the matching paddles.
    Creationists aren't mad - they're possessed of demons.

  28. #28
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    Default Re: Stitch & Glue Canoe - Fisher Prospector

    Time to finish the gunnels! First I sanded the top edge of the canoe to make some teeth to adhere to, then I dry-fit the outwales and marked just below the lower edge with some painters tape to catch any drips.
    This time around I used a healthy amount of epoxy thickened with cabosil as the adhesive. Everything was a bit slippery, so clamping was somewhat tricky.

    I used silicone bronze ring nails as mechanical fasteners to backup the epoxy. Probably not necessary with modern adhesives, but whatever, it looks pretty. I was terrified of splitting the wood, so I pre-drilled holes every 20cm. The vibrations from hammering shook the clamps and caused some sections to shift. The cheap plastic harbor freight clamps actually popped off a few times. The jostling of the clamps also caused some minor damage to the gunnels, as they slipped and squeezed on the fragile corners.
    Here’s the port outwale. You can also see how much of the breasthooks extend above the trim line.

    After that all set, I sanded the edges down to even. I did a pretty good job lining the gunnels with the edges (except towards the ends, where I knew I’d be trimming it).
    I used a belt sander for the bulk of the work in shaping the breasthooks, which was pretty effective. I shaped the ends of the gunnels with a couple rasps and a file. If you’ve never used a saw rasp - those things are great, they remove a ton of material.

    Next I took the canoe outside so I could sit in it and clean up the inwales. I drove some more ring nails in from that side too, particularly since I’d done such a poor job gluing the inwales in the first place, but also because it’ll look nice.

    I decided to seal the gunnels and breasthooks at this stage to better protect them against any accidental damage during the rest of the construction.
    After sanding everything down to 220 and clearing off as much dust as I could. I brushed on a thin coat of epoxy, then came back a few hours later and did another.

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