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Thread: Fuel lines - concerns

  1. #1
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    Angry Fuel lines - concerns

    The boat yard owner (BYO) gave(sold) my son(who is doing the work that the BYO fully knew the purpose for which and where it was required) some fuel line to replace the existing one for the BELOW deck feed from the tank to the 320R-RAC-01 Spin-On Fuel Filter/Water Separator, 10 Micron.

    The boat yard owner provided Silverado 4000 Outboard Fuel Line:
    Silverado 4000 Outboard Fuel Line is resistant to ethanol blended fuels.
    This hose is EPA and CARB compliant.
    Silverado 4000 has a THV barrier layer to prevent permeation, polyester reinforcement for strength and a UV resistant CPE cover.
    The gray color keeps hose cooler and helps prevent vapor lock.
    This hose is for
    above deck primer bulb applications.
    Not fire retardant.
    The above C&P is what Walmart https://www.walmart.com/ip/Sierra-11...-Pack/35219196 site says.

    I also investigated http://www.seastarsolutions.com/prod...series-no-337/ which states:
    FEATURES

    • Extremely low permeation
    • EPA/CARB certified outboard fuel line
    For use in above deck primer bulb assemblies
    • Can be used for small diesel feed line
    • Resistant to ethanol blend fuels

    • Meets SAE J1527 Type B1-15
    Note the words I have bolded, enlarged and changed to red.

    I.E. ABOVE DECK NOT BELOW DECK IN SEALED SECTIONS.

    Told my son to remove the Silverado line and replace it with the MPI black 3/8" marine fuel line - which I normally use and was there - from Budget Marine (next door) and double clamp it with stainless steel clamps.

    I am very disappointed with the boat yard owner.

    I'll pay the boat yard for the line but won't be using them again.

    PS
    the BYO installed the fuel uplift fitting which came loose and also will not stick in place.
    Last edited by Rum_Pirate; 06-07-2019 at 09:42 AM.
    I live and drink rum where other people vacation.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Fuel lines - concerns

    Is it safe to use 3M 5200 to secure a fuel uplift fitting to a plastic inboard below deck fuel tank?

    Other suggestions or recommendations?
    Last edited by Rum_Pirate; 06-07-2019 at 10:50 AM.
    I live and drink rum where other people vacation.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Fuel lines - concerns

    Quote Originally Posted by Rum_Pirate View Post
    Is it safe to use 3M 5200 to secure a fuel uplift fitting to a plastic inboard below deck fuel tank?

    Other suggestions or recommendations?
    Not in a million years. It should be a welded (yes, I know it's plastic) threaded fitting IMO. I'm sure Kevin (Breakaway) or others will be along with the regs for it.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Fuel lines - concerns

    What really irritates is that the BYO is the one that installed it in the first place and is now saying that the threads at the uplift hole are no more. Aargh.

    I will check but think that he originally drilled this uplift hole for the second uplift in the tank (it came with one uplift) for the second engine, i.e. thus there were never any threads!!!

    Plus he - the BYO - is now saying that the original 'mastic' that held the uplift down has now come adrift.
    He is the one that is now using 3M 5200 to 'stick it'.
    It is all his sub-standard doing.

    I am so frustrated with him and it, particularly as I had to pay him to install it in the first place.


    Yes I know, . . . if one wants something doing right, do it yourself !

    BUT I prefer to pay somebody to do open heart surgery on me rather then doing it myself.


    So am considering (myself) getting a flat but flexible material type ring with a hole in middle and drilling a number of holes, say 6 or 8, in the perimeter, then drilling these holes in the tank, then inserting small bolts with washers in the holes, insert the flexible ring into the tank positioning it on the underside of the uplift hole, then push bolts through holes of the tank and then through the holes in the skirt of the uplift fitting (and a gasket), then putting another washer and lock nuts on the bolts and tightening it all up.
    I live and drink rum where other people vacation.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Fuel lines - concerns

    Garret's vote of confidence notwithstanding I am not aware of proper adhesive for that application. I think it just needs to stick and be fuel resistant. The 3m specs for 5200 will tell you that. I don't think much of anything will stick to poly fuel tanks. The best way would be for a threaded and flanged fitting with big rubber washers each side. But, how would you access inside of tank?

    I'd suggest two tanks, one for each engine as the quickest, easiest solution.

    A metal tank could be fabricated with dual pickups and in any size you want, for a lot more.

    Kevin
    There are two kinds of boaters: those who have run aground, and those who lie about it.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Fuel lines - concerns

    Keven your and Garret's input and advice is appreciated.

    Agreed that the best way would be for a threaded and flanged fitting with big rubber washers each side.
    It could be possible to use a flexible material as the 'washer' and use several bolts with washers - as I describe in the last paragraph of Post #4.
    Hurdle is to find a material flexible enough to get the +/-3"
    diameter washer in through a 1" diameter hole.

    Also agreed is that two tanks, one for each engine as a solution would be good. This is what I requested for safety in the first place !!!!
    I don't like aluminum tanks.
    BUT to my regret I was persuaded by the Boat Yard Owner (BYO) [a boat designer and metallurgist that worked in UK for a well known yacht design firm] that he could only get a single tank to fit the space, which tank also BTW reduced the fuel volume from 60 gallons to 40 gallons.
    Aaagh !!!
    .

    Extended exposure to chemicals (teak cleaners, oxalic acid, gasoline, strong solvents and other harsh chemicals) may cause permanent softening of the sealant.
    I take scant comfort in the word 'may' in the above C&P.

    Seems 3M 5200 might actually stick to Polypropylene and Polyethylene BUT the Limitation stated above gives great cause for concern.
    Overlap Shear Strength
    One inch (2.54 cm) overlap specimens (0.093 inch (0.2362 cm thickness). Samples cured at 70°F (21°C), 50% Relative Humidity.


    Substrate

    psi

    kg/cm2

    Wood(s):

    Teak

    502

    35.3

    Pine

    680

    47.8

    Oak

    549

    38.6

    Maple

    656

    46.1

    Fir

    700

    49.2

    Mahogany

    564

    39.7

    Metal(s):

    Steel

    538

    37.8

    Stainless Steel

    352

    24.7

    Aluminum

    393

    27.6

    Brass

    474

    33.3

    Bronze

    252

    17.7

    Copper

    198

    13.9

    Lead

    107

    7.5

    Zinc (Galvanized)

    484

    34.0

    Plastics/Polymers:

    Fiberglass

    362

    25.5

    Gelcoat

    519

    36.5

    Polycarbonate

    381

    26.8

    Acrylic

    217

    15.3

    Nylon

    175

    12.3

    ABS

    231

    16.2

    Polypropylene

    55

    3.9

    Polyethylene

    48

    3.4

    Note: Because actual use conditions can vary for each application, each user must determine the suitability of 3M Marine Adhesive/Sealant 5200 for the intended use.


    That 'Note' is a tremendous and apt disclaimer.
    I live and drink rum where other people vacation.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Fuel lines - concerns

    My concern about 5200 is that gas might dissolve it. https://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/...-tech-data.pdf

    Yep (from the 3M link above - 3M makes 5200):

    Extended exposure to chemicals (teak cleaners, oxalic acid, gasoline, strong solvents and other harsh chemicals) may cause permanent softening of the sealant.
    Something like this might work: https://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=89951


    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Fuel lines - concerns

    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post
    My concern about 5200 is that gas might dissolve it. https://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/...-tech-data.pdf

    Yep (from the 3M link above - 3M makes 5200):

    Something like this might work: https://www.usplastic.com/catalog/it...x?itemid=89951
    Those Uniseal® Pipe-to-Tank Seals sound great solution, unfortunately not available here.
    • Alcryn® melt processable rubber
    • Long lasting
    • Resistant to acids, oils, greases, gasoline & sewage
    • Wthstands pressure & suction
    • Withstands heat & cold
    • Easy installation
    • Reduced labor & material costs
    • In static conditions the seal is good up to 65 psi
    I live and drink rum where other people vacation.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Fuel lines - concerns

    RP -- small wonder you had a need to open that bottle of 1703 - Wow, does this BYO listen to / ask input from anyone ??




    Rick

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