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Thread: He knows more about aircraft carrier catapults than the catapult engineers

  1. #1
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    Default He knows more about aircraft carrier catapults than the catapult engineers

    Don't ya know? Our 'stable genius', in addition to knowing more about any subject, than any expert, is also a qualified aircraft catapult engineer!

    “President Trump told U.S. troops stationed in Japan he plans to order traditional steam powered catapults aboard American warships instead of newer electromagnetic systems that he said may not work as well during wartime,” Bloomberg reports

    Said Trump: “We’re spending all that money on electric and nobody knows what it’s going to be like in bad conditions. So I think I’m going to put an order — when we build a new aircraft carrier, we’re going to use steam.”
    (Question: which Trump-supporting military industrial contractor, looking to preserve or enhance their business, whispered in Trump's ear... and made a big campaign contribution?)
    "Reason and facts are sacrificed to opinion and myth. Demonstrable falsehoods are circulated and recycled as fact. Narrow minded opinion refuses to be subjected to thought and analysis. Too many now subject events to a prefabricated set of interpretations, usually provided by a biased media source. The myth is more comfortable than the often difficult search for truth."







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    Default Re: He knows more about aircraft carrier catapults than the catapult engineers

    oh heck he’s said that in other settings since he was elected. It’s his daily spew recycled.

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    Default Re: He knows more about aircraft carrier catapults than the catapult engineers

    https://taskandpurpose.com/trump-aircraft-carrier-steam


    Trump Uses Thanksgiving Call To A Navy Officer To Voice A Weird Grudge About Aircraft Carriers
    Alex Lockie, Business Insider and Other November 23, 2018 at 10:29 AM

    President Donald Trump returned to one of his more bizarre concerns about the US military on a call with US service members overseas on Thanksgiving Day.

    Talking to a US Navy officer on the phone from his Mar-a-Lago resort in Florida, Trump asked about a pet peeve of his: the catapults aircraft carriers use to launch aircraft.
    .
    .
    So when you do the new carriers, as we do and as we're thinking about doing, would you go with steam, or would you go with electromagnetic?" Trump quizzed the sailor, putting him in the awkward position of disagreeing with the president or disagreeing with his superior officers.

    "Because steam is very reliable, and the electromagnetic, I mean, unfortunately you have to be Albert Einstein to really work it properly," Trump said. "What would you do?"

    "Yes sir, you sort of have to be Albert Einstein to run the nuclear power plant that we have here as well, but we're doing that very well," the officer replied. "Mr. President, I would go electromagnetic [catapults] ... We do pay a heavy cost to transit the steam around the ship."

    "Good, OK, I like to hear that. I'm actually happy about that answer," Trump said. "They're doing what they're doing, but that's actually a very good answer."

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    Default Re: He knows more about aircraft carrier catapults than the catapult engineers

    Maybe now that Mattis is on the outside, he can say publicly, "Are you an effing moron?"
    When you can take the pebble from my hand, it will be time for you to leave.

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    Default Re: He knows more about aircraft carrier catapults than the catapult engineers

    From Trump's 2017 interview with TIME magazine:

    "You know the catapult is quite important. So I said, 'What is this?' 'Sir, this is our digital catapult system.' He said, 'Well, we're going to this because we wanted to keep up with modern [technology].' I said, 'You don't use steam anymore for catapult?' 'No sir.' I said, 'Ah, how is it working?' 'Sir, not good. Not good. Doesn't have the power. You know the steam is just brutal. You see that sucker going, and steam's going all over the place. There's planes thrown in the air.'
    "It sounded bad to me. Digital. They have digital. What is digital? And it's very complicated; you have to be Albert Einstein to figure it out. And I said — and now they want to buy more aircraft carriers. I said, 'What system are you going to be —' 'Sir, we're staying with digital.' I said, 'No you're not. You're going to goddamned steam. The digital costs hundreds of millions of dollars more money, and it's no good.'"

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    Default Re: He knows more about aircraft carrier catapults than the catapult engineers

    Maybe he’ll talk about Infrastructure Week again.

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    Default Re: He knows more about aircraft carrier catapults than the catapult engineers

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob (oh, THAT Bob) View Post
    Maybe now that Mattis is on the outside, he can say publicly, "Are you an effing moron?"
    Why the question?

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    Default Re: He knows more about aircraft carrier catapults than the catapult engineers

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob (oh, THAT Bob) View Post
    Maybe now that Mattis is on the outside, he can say publicly, "Are you an effing moron?"
    He won’t. Cowards all.
    One of the most enduring qualities of an old wooden boat is the smell it imparts to your clothing.

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    Default Re: He knows more about aircraft carrier catapults than the catapult engineers

    Quote Originally Posted by LeeG View Post
    "Good, OK, I like to hear that. I'm actually happy about that answer," Trump said. "They're doing what they're doing, but that's actually a very good answer."
    What the hell does that even mean?

    Honestly, does he think that stringing words together for 10 seconds is enough to simply get a nod from somebody?

    Christ, I’m sick of stupid.
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    Default Re: He knows more about aircraft carrier catapults than the catapult engineers

    What do the Chinese use?

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    Default Re: He knows more about aircraft carrier catapults than the catapult engineers

    Quote Originally Posted by David W Pratt View Post
    What do the Chinese use?
    They don't use any catapults, they use a ski jump. But that doesn't make DFT any smarter. . .
    Nosce te ipsum

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    Default Re: He knows more about aircraft carrier catapults than the catapult engineers

    Quote Originally Posted by Beowolf View Post
    What the hell does that even mean?

    Honestly, does he think that stringing words together for 10 seconds is enough to simply get a nod from somebody?

    Christ, I’m sick of stupid.
    It means he’s happy and he’s bestowing his subordinate with blessings of his happiness. He could flip in 30 seconds or six months and say the same damn thing all over again. All that matters is people are paying attention to him, whether he processes any of what has been said is irrelevant, to him.

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    Default Re: He knows more about aircraft carrier catapults than the catapult engineers

    A simple test is required. Stick the hook in the fat orange idiots arse and see which catapult chucks him furthest from the ship. JayInOz

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    Default Re: He knows more about aircraft carrier catapults than the catapult engineers

    Quote Originally Posted by JayInOz View Post
    A simple test is required. Stick the hook in the fat orange idiots arse and see which catapult chucks him furthest from the ship. JayInOz

    hahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!
    Skip

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    Default Re: He knows more about aircraft carrier catapults than the catapult engineers

    From wiki, Electromagnetic Aircraft Launch System (EMALS):

    Its main advantage is that it accelerates aircraft more smoothly, putting less stress on their airframes. Compared to steam catapults, the EMALS also weighs less, is expected to cost less and require less maintenance, and can launch both heavier and lighter aircraft than a steam piston-driven system. It also reduces the carrier's requirement of fresh water, thus reducing the demand for energy-intensive desalination.

    Advantages

    Compared to steam catapults, EMALS weighs less, occupies less space, requires less maintenance and manpower, is more reliable, recharges quicker, and uses less energy. Steam catapults, which use about 1,350 lb (610 kg) of steam per launch, have extensive mechanical, pneumatic, and hydraulic subsystems.[8] EMALS uses no steam, which makes it suitable for the Navy's planned all-electric ships.[20]
    Compared to steam catapults, EMALS can control the launch performance with greater precision, allowing it to launch more kinds of aircraft, from heavy fighter jets to light unmanned aircraft.[20] With up to 121 megajoules available, each one of the four disk alternators in the EMALS system can deliver 29 percent more energy than a steam catapult's approximately 95 MJ.[8] The EMALS, with their planned 90% power conversion efficiency, will also be more efficient than steam catapults, which achieve only a 5% efficiency.[6]



    Quote Originally Posted by Lew Barrett View Post
    He won’t. Cowards all.
    Nearly all. I don't think Mattis, but I could be wrong. I interpret his behavior while sec def as following the command structure as best as he could, as well as devotion to the military service. He resigned over Trump destroying the alliance with Europe. We'll see what he says in his upcoming book, which is supposed to not be be a tell-all, so I'm guessing it is more about positive lessons than negative criticisms. We'll see.
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    Default Re: He knows more about aircraft carrier catapults than the catapult engineers

    So with all the advantages of electromagnetic, I wonder why that particular officer lauded steam.
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    Default Re: He knows more about aircraft carrier catapults than the catapult engineers

    A friend who was an engineer officer on a British carrier years ago told me that it took a ton of steam to launch an F4. Thar in itself is a strong argument for electromagnetic catapults, but specifically for Trump I have an even better one...

    ...the British invented the steam catapult
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    Default Re: He knows more about aircraft carrier catapults than the catapult engineers

    Not only has he expounded on the catapults, but he also thinks airplanes are way too complicated.

    "Airplanes are becoming far too complex to fly. Pilots are no longer needed, but rather computer scientists from MIT,” Mr Trump tweeted. ”I see it all the time in many products. Always seeking to go one unnecessary step further, when often old and simpler is far better.”
    “Split second decisions are needed, and the complexity creates danger. All of this for great cost yet very little gain. I don’t know about you, but I don’t want Albert Einstein to be my pilot. I want great flying professionals that are allowed to easily and quickly take control of a plane!”
    F4Us off the Enterprise?
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    Default Re: He knows more about aircraft carrier catapults than the catapult engineers

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Bow View Post
    Not only has he expounded on the catapults, but he also thinks airplanes are way too complicated.

    "Airplanes are becoming far too complex to fly. Pilots are no longer needed, but rather computer scientists from MIT,” Mr Trump tweeted. ”I see it all the time in many products. Always seeking to go one unnecessary step further, when often old and simpler is far better.”
    “Split second decisions are needed, and the complexity creates danger. All of this for great cost yet very little gain. I don’t know about you, but I don’t want Albert Einstein to be my pilot. I want great flying professionals that are allowed to easily and quickly take control of a plane!”
    F4Us off the Enterprise?
    Even GW didn’t sound this stupid and inconsistent. But he’s sayin’ what some people are thinkin’!

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    Default Re: He knows more about aircraft carrier catapults than the catapult engineers

    Efficiency. Volume. Maintenance. The electric system is better. The first system in use always has bugs to work out.

    I was talking to my dad about the issues of burning hydrogen in an internal combustion engine. And he says "Why? Once you have hydrogen, you just run it through fuel cells to make electricity to run motors. Vastly more efficient." Me: "You're right." And both of us are mechanical engineers. But there's no getting around the facts.

    Regarding complexity: Ask an F-18 pilot doing a night landing in sketchy conditions if he does or does not want automated landing aids. Heck, ask a commercial pilot who does a lot of low-vis landings. Further, all modern fighter aircraft have "relaxed stability" for maximum agility, which makes them tedious at best, and dangerous at worst, to fly without computer-augmented stability systems. Even further, every rocket since the V2 has automatic control systems for stability, they couldn't fly without it, when the center of thrust is below/behind the center of mass and aerodynamic pressure.
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    Default Re: He knows more about aircraft carrier catapults than the catapult engineers

    Next President Dump will want to remove the reactors from all US navy ships and reinstall coal fired boilers. “Beautiful clean coal”.
    That’ll get him some votes in WV and KY.
    Fight Entropy, build a wooden boat!

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    Default Re: He knows more about aircraft carrier catapults than the catapult engineers

    The Brits also invented the canted carrier deck for landing aircraft and not having them crash into planes parked forward if they missed the arresting cables.


    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Craig-Bennett View Post
    A friend who was an engineer officer on a British carrier years ago told me that it took a ton of steam to launch an F4. Thar in itself is a strong argument for electromagnetic catapults, but specifically for Trump I have an even better one...

    ...the British invented the steam catapult
    Last edited by Nicholas Scheuer; 06-01-2019 at 10:43 AM.

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    Default Re: He knows more about aircraft carrier catapults than the catapult engineers

    The Brits also developed a successful technique for landing the F4U on carrier vessels; meanwhile the USN still favored giving the Corsair to the Marines because of carrier landing difficulties due to limited forward visibility over their long nose.

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    Default Re: He knows more about aircraft carrier catapults than the catapult engineers

    Again I am reminded of my theory regarding the Fermi Paradox. Because the ignorant breed faster, every planet eventually self destructs before the inhabitants can escape. Therefore we will never visit other intelligent ETs, nor will they ever visit us.

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    Default Re: He knows more about aircraft carrier catapults than the catapult engineers

    does trump no more about air craft carriers than O&O PacNorwest (girouard)???
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

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    Default Re: He knows more about aircraft carrier catapults than the catapult engineers

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    does trump no more about air craft carriers than O&O PacNorwest (girouard)???
    I doubt it, but I’m currently not a big fan of the electric cats, the failure rate is like 1 -500 you get a bad cat shot.

    The BIGGER issues , as I understand it right now on the Ford , if one cat is down , ALL cat’s are down. So you can’t launch jets!

    It’s frequently the case on the boats I’ve been on for one cat to be down for parts , or mainly PMS , at certain periods of time durning a deployment.

    In talking with a co workers. Brother Caleb , Lt. EWO (back seater in the Growler) , I had Josh my co worker and his brother Caleb , and my A-6 Captain buddy over for pizza last year , we did it twice. Since then Josh (former USMC ground pounder , did some time in the sand box) has returned to his beloved Montana and gotten married , Caleb at the time was assigned to VAQ-130 , the Home of the sky penis over eastern Washington. Done to welcome their incoming Skipper to the squadron , Commander Stickles , call sign , TESS ! LOL Tess-stickles , so there’s the real dirty lil secret behind the sky penis.

    But back to steam Vs. EMALS cats. We the three aviation guys batted this one around , pro , and mostly conns.

    Caleb the one most likely to get a ride down the rails of a EMAILS cat shot, he’s currently on shore duty as a instructor aircrew here at Whidbey , said well we need to take the chance that they’ll work things out !! Just like our OBOGS systems in the Growler , that’s a replacement to the LOX system Grover my A-6 buddy flew with and I worked around on Prowlers . OBOGS has caused more than a few Growler aircrews to suffer hypoxia, no one knows why, engineers have worked the problem, they say it can’t happen , yet pilots had landed on the ship and the beach and have no memory of the landing . And pilots like golfers can remember all most every shot they’ve made in a round of golf for years , pilots are the same about landings.

    Caleb is all for advancing the technology of the cat shot.
    Which reminded me of the line from the Bridges at To-Ko Re , where the Admiral says some thing to the effect of “Where do we find these brave young warriors” , not a true quote , although I did use “” marks , it’s a paraphrase of his line in the movie .

    Another thing Caleb did say about it was , well the cool shot of a aviator walking out of the steam will be the greatest loss of the steam cat, the nostalgia of someone appearing out of the steam!!!

    So that’s my thoughts on steam cats. Lets hope the # of life’s lost by bad cat shots is limited and that we don’t have a carrier sunk because all the cats where down for a popped circuit breaker on cat one and enemy aircraft or missiles had a unopposed run at the ship.

    If it where Grover or I , we’d stick to the steam cats! But we ain’t deploying again.


    Edited to add :

    One of my old VAQ-141 Lt’s was the first skipper of the Ford , Then Capt. John Meier , now Admiral Meier , call sign Oscar BTW. He never took her to sea due to the SSSLLLOOOOWWW process of get her out of the yards . He did make ADR. After his tour so what ever he did to run his ship must have been deemed as a good job or he’d have no picked up that star.

    I haven’t seen him in 35 years , but remember him as a good stick and a decent zero.
    Last edited by Paul Girouard; 06-02-2019 at 01:31 PM.

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    Default Re: He knows more about aircraft carrier catapults than the catapult engineers

    Unless the USN is launching airliners, steam will get the job done. It is a developed technology and steam is cheap on board. Carriers are barely needed in the Navy, they are big targets. The Jerry Ford's glitzy slingshots sounded dubious years ago, when they were first in the press.

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    Default Re: He knows more about aircraft carrier catapults than the catapult engineers

    Btw, I am a Sub fan. I love flat tops but they are dated.

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    Default Re: He knows more about aircraft carrier catapults than the catapult engineers

    Quote Originally Posted by Dannybb55 View Post
    Btw, I am a Sub fan. I love flat tops but they are dated.
    Troops on the ground love jets over head, subs are , as I see it, a final solution to a problem that’s gotten out of hand.
    Boomers will end it all, and the crews of the USN fleet of boomers might be who becomes the remaining seed stock, might be a good thing to integrate those crews soon!

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    Default Re: He knows more about aircraft carrier catapults than the catapult engineers

    I think everyone here is underestimating the genius of Trumps choice of Steam over Electric.

    Entrench the working poor.
    Expand coal mines.
    Lower health and safety standards.
    Kill the unions.
    Kill critical thinking and reduce ownership of the press to a friendly few.

    Just need a few looms and the heady days of no regulation are ahead of us.......

    Industry.jpg
    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

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    Default Re: He knows more about aircraft carrier catapults than the catapult engineers

    Quote Originally Posted by gypsie View Post

    Just need a few looms and the heady days of no regulation are ahead of us.......

    Industry.jpg
    One of those boys (the barefoot one...) could have been my grandfather, circa 1910. Couldn't afford school (or shoes), so went to work in the cotton mills at age 7 or 8 to help support the family.

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    Default Re: He knows more about aircraft carrier catapults than the catapult engineers

    My nephew was a naval aviator on the Abraham Lincoln and he invited me to come along on the return from the Gulf. I joined the ship at Pearl Harbor for the passage to San Diego. The quarters he and other pilots had was right under one of the steam catapults. At 5 am each morning they started warming it up right above my bunk, and I mean RIGHT above the bunk. It was like a freight train running through the room. If the new system is dependable and less loud that would be a blessing.

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    Default Re: He knows more about aircraft carrier catapults than the catapult engineers

    Quote Originally Posted by rbgarr View Post
    My nephew was a naval aviator on the Abraham Lincoln and he invited me to come along on the return from the Gulf. I joined the ship at Pearl Harbor for the passage to San Diego. The quarters he and other pilots had was right under one of the steam catapults. At 5 am each morning they started warming it up right above my bunk, and I mean RIGHT above the bunk. It was like a freight train running through the room. If the new system is dependable and less loud that would be a blessing.
    Once you get used to it , when we don’t fly you wake up , or can’t get to sleep.

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    Default Re: He knows more about aircraft carrier catapults than the catapult engineers

    You don't really appreciate the noise until you hear a Growler takeoff from 30+ miles away. I'm amazed that anyone on Whidbey Island has any hearing whatsoever.
    Nosce te ipsum

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    Default Re: He knows more about aircraft carrier catapults than the catapult engineers

    Quote Originally Posted by Old Dryfoot View Post
    You don't really appreciate the noise until you hear a Growler takeoff from 30+ miles away. I'm amazed that anyone on Whidbey Island has any hearing whatsoever.
    They rock me to sleep every night they fly!

    There is a vocal group on central Whidbey ,, that moved in since 1942 and picked up nice cheap view property on central Whidbey by our OLF (Outer Laying Field) , that’s the place your “hero” Tom , maybe his name was Tim , from Coupeville who used to report war was imminent because they are bouncing at OLF Coupeville!

    Those people are running a scam!! They got cheap property BECAUSE there was a tactical jet runway close to the property , NOW they want the OLF closed! It’s BULL$HIT !
    Last edited by Paul Girouard; 06-04-2019 at 12:33 AM.

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