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Thread: Solid wood small sharpie/flattie

  1. #1
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    Default Solid wood small sharpie/flattie

    Has anyone here buildt a solid wood sharpie like in the article here or similar. Me and a couple of friends have an idea of making 3 of them and race...

    https://www.yachtingmagazine.com/yac...0M_QlHLMwINyBs

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    Default Re: Solid wood small sharpie/flattie

    Heavy, expensive and often leaky if dry-sailed. But if you want to build 'em, go for it! I restored and rigged for sail a fir over oak dory skiff, all bronze and copper fastened, and have actively sailed it for over a decade.
    "The enemies of reason have a certain blind look."
    Doctor Jacquin to Lieutenant D'Hubert, in Ridley Scott's first major film _The Duellists_.

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    Default Re: Solid wood small sharpie/flattie

    Cross plank is the easiest to dry sail, in my foolish opinion. Splines, tongue and groove, or lapped boards help a TON, and are the secret. If the sides are one piece, they won’t weep, but even lapped sides can be beveled on the bench, as it will be a dory style lap with constant bevels.

    I’ve done a few skiffs and wee pirogues from solid wood, and I live in the desert. The cross planked bottom (I used splines) is the only one I’ve tried I can use, realistically, around here. It don’t leak much, if’n it do, to take up.

    All my boats are dry stored and dry sailed.

    Heavy and expensive? Meh. That’s relative. Plywood is heavy, for example, and the “good” stuff is spendy. Gluepoxy ain’t cheap, neither, and if you need cloth?
    I’d bang such a sharpie as that together with pine and galvanized fasteners and go.

    Bearing in mind you are building flat bottomed skiff, with all that entails.

    Peace,
    Robert

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    Default Re: Solid wood small sharpie/flattie

    What Rob said as far as the sides go. I would add that a couple of pairs of taper boards each at about 1/3 length hammered tight before they were nailed will help a tight bottom with either T&G or loose splines. That and goop in the grooves will keep her tight for decades.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Solid wood small sharpie/flattie

    Hey Fred. You don't sit still for very long. I have a 20' wooden spritsail skiff (not flat bottomed) that I keep in NC and only sail a couple of times a year. It is heavy but it feels pretty fast. I've never checked the speed though - it just feels like its going fast being so close to the water.

    I built a 15' version of Chapelle's St. Lawrence River bateau (its in one of his books). Its has a flat, cross planked bottom but is double-ended. The bottom is random-width planks of black locust with Sika 291L in the joints. Our humidity changes widely here but is normally pretty dry, and the 291 seems to keep the water out. The sides are three planks of western red cedar with 291L in the joints there as well.

    I say go for it. I don't think you or your buddies will regret it.

    Good luck - Gary

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    Default

    Thanks for the support, Well Gary, I talk about more projects than I do, but I dont sit still. Sailing 4 hours today 😎

    I have a lot of spruce I think will work for this. Maybe build with two or three plank lapstrake on the sides...Spruce is light, and dont take up as much water as pine/fir, so they wont be very heavy.

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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by amish rob View Post
    Cross plank is the easiest to dry sail, in my foolish opinion. Splines, tongue and groove, or lapped boards help a TON, and are the secret. If the sides are one piece, they won’t weep, but even lapped sides can be beveled on the bench, as it will be a dory style lap with constant bevels.

    I’ve done a few skiffs and wee pirogues from solid wood, and I live in the desert. The cross planked bottom (I used splines) is the only one I’ve tried I can use, realistically, around here. It don’t leak much, if’n it do, to take up.

    All my boats are dry stored and dry sailed.

    Heavy and expensive? Meh. That’s relative. Plywood is heavy, for example, and the “good” stuff is spendy. Gluepoxy ain’t cheap, neither, and if you need cloth?
    I’d bang such a sharpie as that together with pine and galvanized fasteners and go.

    Bearing in mind you are building flat bottomed skiff, with all that entails.

    Peace,
    Robert
    I have read about flat bottom boats entails, and the boats I sail regurarly is the total opposite of that. Doing different stuff, and having different boats makes life rich in my opinion 😃

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    Default Re: Solid wood small sharpie/flattie

    Looks like I found a good candidate for such a project. Anyone know more about this design?: https://www.woodenboat.com/boat-plan...-willy-winship


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    Default Re: Solid wood small sharpie/flattie

    I built a flatiron skiff a few years back. It was a rowboat, but the dimensions and design were similar to the first you posted. I built it in a few days of lumberyard white pine using hardware store galvanized nails. It was a quick and easy build with hand tools only, and a complete success. That boat was stored and used on a fresh water pond, so I spaced the bottom boards using the back of a saw blade. It swelled tight except for the last seam, which floated clear of the water when empty. The 14' boat was light enough for two to carry dry, much heavier swelled. It lived for years on that pond until the owners moved away, when it was left lying in a small spring year round. Even after that, it kept it's shape, though it probably needed a new bottom.
    Good luck, have fun, keep us posted.

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    Default Re: Solid wood small sharpie/flattie

    Fred - there are dozens, maybe hundreds, of flat-bottom sailing skiff designs out there. I have no experience with the Atkin's Winship, but if you can provide some important criteria for the boat you have in mind, I'll search my resources and I/we may be able to offer some other options. Nothing wrong with the Winship that I know of, but I didn't know whether you're still looking for ideas.

    Gary

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    Default Re: Solid wood small sharpie/flattie

    Good inspiring story!

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    Default Re: Solid wood small sharpie/flattie

    Always ready for ideas Gary. The truth is I have enough boats both private and in the Costal federation, so the criteria is just to have some fun building something nice. The idea of including my friends is new, but one of them is already hyped about it. My friend also want to look at slightly bigger flat bottom boats like this, for camp-cruising, but still traditional build. We will build in the winter and sail in the short summer, so in the unheated shop, epoxy is not an alternative, and we like all the traditional stuff....smell of tar, fresh wood,,,,, and leaks

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    Default Re: Solid wood small sharpie/flattie

    I think Pete Culler has a very nice one in Skiffs ans Schonners. Spritsail ketch or schooner.

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    Default Re: Solid wood small sharpie/flattie

    Quote Originally Posted by Fredostli View Post
    Looks like I found a good candidate for such a project. Anyone know more about this design?: https://www.woodenboat.com/boat-plan...-willy-winship

    https://www.classicmarine.co.uk/proj...-willy-winship There were a whole series of articles describing the build in the now defunct Boatman, the predecessor of Watercraft.

    Nick

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    Default Re: Solid wood small sharpie/flattie

    I have a subscription to Watercraft magazine, and Gartside has drawed a 15 ft. skiff similar to this in the magazine, but for motor, not sail. I think hes boat has a bit wider bottom, but he write about a lug-rigged version that inspired hes design.


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    Default Re: Solid wood small sharpie/flattie

    Quote Originally Posted by Fredostli View Post
    I have read about flat bottom boats entails, and the boats I sail regurarly is the total opposite of that. Doing different stuff, and having different boats makes life rich in my opinion 

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    I only have four flat bottomed boats, right now. Only one is solid wood, now, though, because the ply really does hold up better here, where it is HOT and DRY. Normally.

    Still. I am a total sucker for a solid wooden skiff. Any cross planked boat, really. Scows, skiffs, all that. Shoot, I don’t even mind longitudinally planked “three board” boats. Love them to pieces, too.

    I think a cross planked skiff with lapstrake sides is nice looking, tough, strong, easy to repair, and easy to build.

    I will I’ll follow whatever progress you post with interest.

    Peace,
    Robert

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    Default Re: Solid wood small sharpie/flattie

    The first boat I built was a "flateka", would be called "doris" on the west coast of Sweden. The word comes from "dories". I'd call it a half dory.
    The model was intended for rowing but a fellow student put in a centerboard case and a Ljungsrtöm rig, that apparently worked fine.
    It took me and a fellow student one semester to build it, but I think it would have been faster without him.
    If I'd build one now I think it'd take me a week.
    Clenched hot galv iron nails, solid wood, some used larch, some pine, we used spruse, cross planked bottom.
    I blogged about the build http://kaptenmohsart.blogspot.com/search/label/Flateka

    /Mats

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    Default

    Thanks Mats, I will read thru your blog. Looks very nice!

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    How many ft? is the Flateka Mats. Any photos on water?

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    Default Re: Solid wood small sharpie/flattie

    https://batritningar.se/sv/batritnin...eka/12-flateka but shortened a bit, with only one thwart, I'm not sure of exact measurments. The sudent I built it with bought (and sold) the boat before it hit the water.
    I may be able to take a pic of a similar boat next week or so.

    /Mats

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  22. #22
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    Default Re: Solid wood small sharpie/flattie

    This is a similar, but larger, boat https://grisslan.blogspot.com/2018/1...osattning.html

    /Mats

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    Default Re: Solid wood small sharpie/flattie

    If you cross plank. The bottom with one course of 3/8 planks and another of 4/8. Bed it well with bedding compound and pay the seams with 52million, then it will stay dry and tight. Don't forget the cotton and seam compound in the chines, stem and transom. Trumpys were built like that and their builges were dusty with shavings in the limbers for years.

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    Default Re: Solid wood small sharpie/flattie

    Fred,

    Probably a gazillion flat bottom boats built. Keep the bottom planks narrow, not more then 3". 2.25 or 2.5 probably the best. Limiting the shrinkage of each individual part. Keep the seams very narrow and put a thin line of cotton in with a wheel. If you don't have one a well made pizza cutter will work.

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    Default Re: Solid wood small sharpie/flattie

    I have seen about 10 boats of the same model I built.
    None of them had any caulking, they swelled up nicely in a day or less.
    One swelled up too good, possibly because of too dry wood.

    /Mats

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  26. #26
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    Thankyou guys! I now have two friends interested in the project, so hopefully we put together 3 boats next winter. Right now we are occupied sailing, and I must build my wife a greenhouse.

    Willy winship is on top of the candidates list, but ideas for other designs are welcome!

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    Default Re: Solid wood small sharpie/flattie

    We are getting more and more enthusiastc about the idea of building some flatties, and Willy Winship is close to be our choice. I do have a question. Is the bottom planking always screws like in the video-series "tips from a shipwright - skiff" or is nails adequate too?

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    Default Re: Solid wood small sharpie/flattie

    I think screws are stronger, I nailed mine.

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    Default Re: Solid wood small sharpie/flattie

    I screwed my bottom planks on. You're probably going to have to pre-drill either way if that's a concern.

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    Do you have some photos of your flattie Gary?

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    Default Re: Solid wood small sharpie/flattie

    Fred - the first images are the spritsail skiff. The later are my adaptation of the St. Lawrence River bateau. Didn't know which one interested you.

    Let me know if you have questions.

    [IMG]Untitled by Gary Davis, on Flickr[/IMG]

    [IMG]

    [IMG]100_5276 by Gary Davis, on Flickr[/IMG]

    [IMG]DSC_7098 by Gary Davis, on Flickr[/IMG]

    [IMG]Untitled by Gary Davis, on Flickr[/IMG]

    [IMG]Untitled by Gary Davis, on Flickr[/IMG]

    [IMG]Untitled by Gary Davis, on Flickr[/IMG]

  32. #32
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    Default Re: Solid wood small sharpie/flattie

    Very Nice boats Gary, are they all solid wood construction?

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    Default Re: Solid wood small sharpie/flattie

    The spritsail skiff was built by forumite Mike Fonville (aka Erster). I think he used mostly reclaimed cedar and cypress. The bateau has a locust bottom (we felled the tree), forest-salvage western red-cedar sides, reclaimed Douglas fir longitudinals, and cherry frames from a tree local to my family in North Carolina. Inner and outer stems are laminated oak. Stem knees are mahogany. Two people can lift it and move it around, but its heavy. I wanted it to be stout when it hits a rock in the Yellowstone River.

    Hope that helps a bit Fred. Let me know if there is anything else I might be able to help with.

    Good luck choosing a design.

  34. #34
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    Default Re: Solid wood small sharpie/flattie

    If you are a traditionalist, Mystic Seaport has/had plans for a small (16 ft?) two masted sharpie that was plank constructed. I sailed one, or one like it, at the Mystic boat livery and it sailed well. although I don't think would break any records.

  35. #35
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    Default Re: Solid wood small sharpie/flattie

    Are you dead set on a flat bottomed boat?
    Something like this is what I would build if I were you
    https://batritningar.se/sv/batritningar/rundbottnad-eka
    There are many variations all across Scandinavia, some have a deeper keel or CB to make sailing possible.
    It's an extremly easy build, I'd argue almost as easy as a half dory.

    /Mats

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