Results 1 to 34 of 34

Thread: Need design(er) for 80' sailboat

  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Location
    Bahrain
    Posts
    11

    Default Need design(er) for 80' sailboat

    Hi,
    I am looking to build an 80 ft. sailboat similar to the attached photo in Wood/epoxy “perhaps mahogany” could anyone recommend individual designs and designers.
    Many thanks,
    Ayman

    Attached Images Attached Images

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Hills of Vermont, USA
    Posts
    30,262

    Default Re: Need design(er) for 80' sailboat

    Welcome to the forum!

    You're expecting people on the WBF to have an opinion on this? Well - let me just say that the responses should be fun...
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Beaufort, NC
    Posts
    1,286

    Default Re: Need design(er) for 80' sailboat

    What is your budget, 2-2 1/2 million?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Location
    Bahrain
    Posts
    11

    Default Re: Need design(er) for 80' sailboat

    Thank you Garret

    Doesn’t hurt to try and will learn at least few things from everyone.

    Dannybb55
    My budget is $500k US; I will use my wooden workshop to support this project.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Hills of Vermont, USA
    Posts
    30,262

    Default Re: Need design(er) for 80' sailboat

    Never hurts to try! Let me rephrase that. Sometimes it hurts like hell - but you do learn along the way...

    While I realize labor rates vary around the world, the surveyor's estimate for replacing my 52 ft. sloop (the boat itself - no rigging, no sails, no engine, no electronics, no interior, no head, etc.) was 625K & that was 12 years ago.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Lynden, Wa
    Posts
    3,557

    Default Re: Need design(er) for 80' sailboat

    Off hand,

    Tad Roberts, Paul Gartside, Sam Devlin

    A quick google should bring up any of their information.
    There's the plan, then there's what actually happens.

    Ben Sebens, RN

    15' Welsford Navigator Inconceivable
    16' W. Simmons Mattinicus double ender ​Matty

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Location
    Bahrain
    Posts
    11

    Default Re: Need design(er) for 80' sailboat

    Ill paste some of my comments on other website and let me know your opinion please!

    1-By the way, my initial calculations for west system epoxy, fillers and fibers are about $40k-60k USD max. So it’s expectable to me.
    For a same like new yanmar engine 450Hp, never opened & imported from japan from a damaged boat is $12k USD here, same one will be new at 45K, for example.
    I have mechanics that rebuilt such engines for less than 3k USD. I also have my own plumper’s, electricians and so on.
    2-
    Good news, I just received a quotation for African mahogany (kosipo) $750 USD C/M including tax. (5% tax here)
    3-
    As for masts, aluminum is the best and will cost $100k by one of the best makers (Reckmann of Germany). However, mostly ill make them of wood (which is bad for sails; they will tear it off if they are not stable enough) but that will add stealth from radars and pirates. And I will save a lot.
    4-
    The wood turn to be Kosipo, which is African mahogany (heavy - also they call it heavy sapili) priced at $1000 C/m including tax. So if I made the boat in solid will cost around 50k for wood.SD no KD
    5-
    I have support here but with Turkish builders (4 of them paid double what they get in turkey for a year + free accommodation and others, I believe I could do this dream boat with half price, also I am an engineer and I did many projects in my life). I will inject (group of 4 carpenters and painters from my side to support the Turks builders) to speed up construction with accuracy! Total salary for the 8 ($75-100USD max)/year
    6-I received quotations from both Turkish and Egyptian boat builders ranging from 400k-2500k $
    7-
    I have requested the design only from few Turkish and international designers and turn cost between 20k-200k USD. I am thinking of building this boat with my wooden workshop & importing 3-4 Turkish builders in addition my labor here in the gulf because I think I could build it completely with around $500k with the highest standers and materials and ready to sail.

    So that’s at least 50% less than all Turks factories. I have support here but with Turkish builders (4 of them paid double what they get in turkey for a year+ free accommodation and others, I believe I could do this dream boat with half price, also I am an engineer and I did many projects in my life).

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Location
    Bahrain
    Posts
    11

    Default Re: Need design(er) for 80' sailboat

    Thanks, I got a quote from Ted Roberts already.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    26,530

    Default Re: Need design(er) for 80' sailboat

    The boat in the OP looks like a Turkish charter ketch. Is that the purpose of this vessel?

    Are you thinking of something like Tatoosh: https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/196...ketch-3496331/

    Or something even less modern?

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Mukilteo, WA
    Posts
    2,504

    Default Re: Need design(er) for 80' sailboat

    I can't think of a designer who works with that type of hull particularly. Your best bet is probably a designer in Turkey.

    Your budget seems impossibly low, perhaps just enough for the materials, but I am unfamiliar with the real-world conditions in your country.

    Your comment about wood masts being bad for sails is a bit misguided. Furthermore, the boat you posted is not primarily a sailboat, it is a motorsailer or more likely just a motor boat. That is fine, as long as it is what you intend. If you are looking for real sailing performance, we might be able to recommend some other hull types.
    Last edited by J.Madison; 05-24-2019 at 05:54 PM.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Location
    Bahrain
    Posts
    11

    Default Re: Need design(er) for 80' sailboat

    The boat was design and built in Greece in the 1964. The purpose is for family use & maybe charter. I like the design in & out; it suites me very well. Ease for sail, simple, open space its just perfect to me. (it was made for a rich man too and many royalty went in it including prince Charles of UK). Basically, I am looking to make a 2nd copy with slight changes.
    http://chrisgiatrakos.gr/2018/06/08/...acht-cruising/

  12. #12
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Location
    Bahrain
    Posts
    11

    Default Re: Need design(er) for 80' sailboat

    Your right, it’s a motorsailer boat kinda and got a 400hp engine but with wood/epoxy hull should get lighter with help of the designer and faster. I am not looking to race as much as worm houseboat or whatever you like to call it. I like to make it more of a trawler. Its also shallow drafted and I need that 2.2 m. So what do you recommend!

  13. #13
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Location
    Bahrain
    Posts
    11

    Default Re: Need design(er) for 80' sailboat

    news_thumb_1.jpgI received 3 Turkish quotes (from respective builders) for 1.1-.1.3 million USD.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    26,530

    Default Re: Need design(er) for 80' sailboat

    I agree, boats like that are still built in Turkey, maybe your shipwrights will know a good designer. In most of the world, as engines became smaller and lighter, boats with the same power performance could be built with better sailing performance. Jay Benford is the only American designer currently working who has done much with really heavy sailing craft, and even he has done some light displacement wood cruising sailboats. That said, there are other designers who might be interested in such a project, and you could certainly contact Tad Roberts, Bob Perry, and a few others.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    26,530

    Default Re: Need design(er) for 80' sailboat

    A gulet might suit you. Mousing around the web, I found this:

    https://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/20002

    Phillip Rhodes designed some motorsailers that would do the job, back in the 1950s, such as this:

    http://ybi1.com/nostromo_29m_de_vrie...r_for_sale.htm

    But in steel. I think with the more compact engines now available, you could get a better balance between sailing and motoring than any of these examples with a new design, but I do wonder about whether the cost could be controlled.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Location
    Bahrain
    Posts
    11

    Default Re: Need design(er) for 80' sailboat

    Thank you Johnw, by the way they are asking for this boat now $360k but its older than me. For steel , the Turks offered me 50K less than wood but I want wood for its heat /cold isolation and to avoid cathodic protection and help stay more away of radars !!

  17. #17
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Location
    Bahrain
    Posts
    11

    Default Re: Need design(er) for 80' sailboat

    I have looked at gulet a lot in the past, but some how this boat got a little of everything and everyone, all set in one boat. This will save me a lot because the setup is just beautiful to my needs. The Turks always make gullet as charter and family boats but in heavy forms! This boat was perfectly set. ( they ask Dr. ferry Porsche founder of Porsche auto; what makes your cars wanted so much, he said; our design is based on multi languages, I have designers from Germany, Denmark, japan, USA and other parts of the world).

    The 29m boat is nice but again not as shallow draft and complicated. I always remember an English friend of mine who always say: Less is More!.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Location
    Bahrain
    Posts
    11

    Default Re: Need design(er) for 80' sailboat

    I was close to do this boat before, but I wasn’t sure for quit some time; the issue of big sails, hydraulic transmission, fin keel and draft.
    Still; lovely boat.
    http://www.classic-yacht-design.com/...creole/pc.html

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    On the river, Auckland, New Zealand
    Posts
    5,507

    Default Re: Need design(er) for 80' sailboat

    Quote Originally Posted by Ayman View Post
    Hi,
    I am looking to build an 80 ft. sailboat similar to the attached photo in Wood/epoxy “perhaps mahogany” could anyone recommend individual designs and designers.
    Many thanks,
    Ayman

    Michael Kasten.
    Jay Benford.
    Tad Roberts.

    John Welsford ( Sign, not design, out of my league).
    An expert is but a beginner with experience.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Falmouth England.
    Posts
    411

    Default Re: Need design(er) for 80' sailboat

    Try the Arkin Pruva Yard in Antalya Turkey. They built Ed's 83ft Shindela.

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Sound Beach, NY
    Posts
    3,990

    Default Re: Need design(er) for 80' sailboat

    It sounds like you have done plenty of planning. Good luck with her, keep us posted.

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    Pleasant Valley NS Canada
    Posts
    18,083

    Default Re: Need design(er) for 80' sailboat

    Well, I certainly don't have the name recognition factor of the other fine designers mentioned in this thread, but I do have a track record of designing classic yachts up to 72-ft LOA for cold-mold construction...

    Ninita in the Azores 2.jpgCatriona under sail.jpg

    I suppose that I should add (for clarity) before someone gets all upset... Yes, the yachts shown are a Burgess and a Herreshoff, respectively. However, in my defense, both of the originals were built plank-on-frame with (for the day) minimal interiors and virtually no domestic systems. My design brief was to maintain the classic look and detail of the originals on the exterior, but install modern navigation and communication electronics, a much more luxe interior, full mechanicals including diesel propulsion (twin engines in the Burgess) and generators, multiple tanks and associated plumbing, modern toilet facilities, modern well-equipped galleys, etc. All of these additions added weight, but the clients wanted the boats to float on their original lines with the original ballast/displacement ratio, so pretty much every component of the hull fabric was evaluated for potential weight savings, and very detailed weight analysis was done to ensure that the all-up weight was maintained and weight distribution was as accurate to the original as possible. With modern fabrics and cordage, rig pressures were expected to be higher, so all rigging points - both standing and running - had to be evaluated and strength added to mounting points where necessary. Finally, both boats have twin VHF antennae, a radar, multiple smaller antennae, and radar reflectors aloft - can you spot them? Essentially, the only thing that I did not change with these boats was the lines and sail plan.
    Last edited by mmd; 05-25-2019 at 08:13 AM.
    Hope for the best, but plan for the worst.

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    26,530

    Default Re: Need design(er) for 80' sailboat

    Quote Originally Posted by mmd View Post
    Well, I certainly don't have the name recognition factor of the other fine designers mentioned in this thread, but I do have a track record of designing classic yachts up to 72-ft LOA for cold-mold construction...

    Ninita in the Azores 2.jpgCatriona under sail.jpg

    I suppose that I should add (for clarity) before someone gets all upset... Yes, the yachts shown are a Burgess and a Herreshoff, respectively. However, in my defense, both of the originals were built plank-on-frame with (for the day) minimal interiors and virtually no domestic systems. My design brief was to maintain the classic look and detail of the originals on the exterior, but install modern navigation and communication electronics, a much more luxe interior, full mechanicals including diesel propulsion (twin engines in the Burgess) and generators, multiple tanks and associated plumbing, modern toilet facilities, modern well-equipped galleys, etc. All of these additions added weight, but the clients wanted the boats to float on their original lines with the original ballast/displacement ratio, so pretty much every component of the hull fabric was evaluated for potential weight savings, and very detailed weight analysis was done to ensure that the all-up weight was maintained and weight distribution was as accurate to the original as possible. With modern fabrics and cordage, rig pressures were expected to be higher, so all rigging points - both standing and running - had to be evaluated and strength added to mounting points where necessary. Finally, both boats have twin VHF antennae, a radar, multiple smaller antennae, and radar reflectors aloft - can you spot them? Essentially, the only thing that I did not change with these boats was the lines and sail plan.
    And people need to keep in mind, most of the actual design work on boats this size is not the lines and sailplan, unless you want a very bare bones vessel.

  24. #24
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Location
    Bahrain
    Posts
    11

    Default Re: Need design(er) for 80' sailboat

    Thank you everyone for all your support and recommendations.
    I have contacted many designers in many places and I believe I need someone who have the experience with such size, who could work with me and match my budget.
    You’ll wonderful people.

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    26,530

    Default Re: Need design(er) for 80' sailboat

    Quote Originally Posted by Ayman View Post
    Thank you everyone for all your support and recommendations.
    I have contacted many designers in many places and I believe I need someone who have the experience with such size, who could work with me and match my budget.
    You’ll wonderful people.
    Please update us on the project!

  26. #26
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Shubenacadie NS
    Posts
    4,681

    Default Re: Need design(er) for 80' sailboat

    Will you be keeping a build log as she's assembled? We'd love to follow along.
    If one advances confidently in the direction of his dreams, and endeavors to live the life which he has imagined, he will meet with a success unexpected in common hours.
    -Henry David Thoreau-

  27. #27
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Pittsburgh, Pa.
    Posts
    3,523

    Default Re: Need design(er) for 80' sailboat

    my suggestion is to go to Indonesia or Malaysia and have a Pinisi built
    Pinisi Traditional Sail Ship

    If he ever drinks the brew of 10 tanna leaves, he will become a monster the likes of which the world has never seen



  28. #28
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Pittsburgh, Pa.
    Posts
    3,523

    Default Re: Need design(er) for 80' sailboat

    Using modern construction methods I'm sure Reuel Parker could come up with a good design

    https://www.parker-marine.com/parker2_1.htm







    Bermudian
    Schooner 65


    Designed for a charter company but never built; there is a yacht version and a passenger-carrying version; also a boomed sail plan that is self-tending
    Last edited by Rigadog; 05-26-2019 at 12:17 PM.
    If he ever drinks the brew of 10 tanna leaves, he will become a monster the likes of which the world has never seen



  29. #29
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Beaufort, NC
    Posts
    1,286

    Default Re: Need design(er) for 80' sailboat

    Nice budget. Building is cheaper than restoration. Why an epoxy boat?

  30. #30
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    NZ
    Posts
    2,296

    Default Re: Need design(er) for 80' sailboat

    I know a guy who has this bridge in San Francisco for sale... I think he does schooners as well.
    whatever rocks your boat

  31. #31

    Default Re: Need design(er) for 80' sailboat

    The Rhodes is one of the best boats there is, in comparison the gulets are chicken sheds
    Boat Designer. Boatbuilder

  32. #32

    Default Re: Need design(er) for 80' sailboat

    , you might as well replank a fishing boat, it will save you lots
    Last edited by peter radclyffe; 05-27-2019 at 11:36 AM.
    Boat Designer. Boatbuilder

  33. #33
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    South Australia and Tasmania
    Posts
    18,979

    Default

    I have trouble taking this seriously. But good luck.

    Sent from my CPH1851 using Tapatalk

  34. #34
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Caribbean cliff edge
    Posts
    21,201

    Default Re: Need design(er) for 80' sailboat

    Good luck with your venture.

    Please post updates, and pictures, as your yacht building project progresses.
    I live and drink rum where other people vacation.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •