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Thread: Eastern US Great Loop - Best Boat Design???

  1. #1
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    Question Eastern US Great Loop - Best Boat Design???

    Hey, just wanted to start a conversation about a live-aboard design to take-on the Eastern US Great Loop?

    ~BOAT SELECTION THREAD~

    This is a bucket list for my wife and I'm on board. We live in Florida and have family in New England and Newfoundland.
    We are currently looking at the route planning and when the best time it is to be where and how long we need at each destination. This trip will be a once in a lifetime only trip and we plan on taking 2 or 3 years to complete the trip. We want to hit all of the places along the way and stay long enough to get to know the place a bit and not just have a simple day trip as found on a cruise. I also want to show my wife the Turks and the Bahamas thus our loop will be a bit bigger and head a bit south east. And since we have family in Bermuda, and St. John NS, we might just have to haul out a fly to the extreme destinations for a few weeks or months as needed.

    So we are looking at a live-aboard that will sleep 4 (for week long visits) but sustain 2 for mostly the full three years. After that we will get rid of the boat and move back to shore.

    The boat needs to be simple, easy to maintain, have all the amenities of a class A RV camper, and it needs to be shallow draft for some of the best camping and river exploration along the way (boondocking and gunkholing).

    It needs to be less than 10 feet wide for shipping across the road in case of major failure, and it needs to have a sail rig with a tabernacle and an easy process to raise and lower rig for the bridges along the loop.

    I want to anticipate that sailing will only occur 25%-50% of the time... therefore the ideal is a motor-sailor of some sort? The wife is keen on a canal boat but likes the idea of a wider catamaran hull as well.

    We are still looking into all of the itinerary options along the loop and the wants and needs of the trip route. And yes there is a budget... dirt cheap... but not unrealistic. We will be happy with a Winnebago quality but will settle with a work-boat fit and finish. The ideal is for safety and comfort, not a prize winner or a show stopper. We want the boat to survive the loop without the need of any major issues along the way.

    We need heat and ac and a well insulated cabin.

    Now here is the question that I would like to understand and get some direction from the forum:

    1) What is the most practical size of Boat of this trip? We currently have a 8' X 36' Winnie RV and don't need much space or many luxury items, which we are most at home in.
    2) What is the most economical Boat that fits this bill - operation and maintenance not initial outlay.
    3) What is the best hull design? Sail / Motor / etc... I like a scow motor sail with leaboards, but I am open for all ideas.

    and lastly

    4) What boat would you select if you had the same requirements?

    We can spend a few years preparing the boat so we don't need anything right now, so no big rush. We are still a few years away from leaving... and I am building a few small boats in the meantime. A dingy and a boat for the EC... Still under consideration.

    Thanks for your suggestions and I hope that this spawns some good conversations. I tried to search on the forums but did not really find anything. I am reading some cruising forums and trying to answer other questions concerning the trip, but this thread is about the ~BOAT SELECTION ONLY - THANKS~

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Eastern US Great Loop - Best Boat Design???

    The Meadow Lark concept might work. An example: http://www.boatersresources.com/bfs_...hp?adid=461556


    Drawbacks are:

    Many don't have standing headroom. There are some that have good headroom.

    With only one engine, horsepower severely limited by one small off-set prop. It would take a really smart engineer/naval architect to find a way to fit two mills.

    Hard to lay out cockpit shelter/pilot house or something such.

    No real privacy with four aboard, but you might already be used to that.

    As designed, not a readily demountable rig. Again, a bit of competent engineering can fix this.


    Advantages:

    Very easily driven hull. Economical under power.

    Both sea worthy and sea kindly. (You should see one of these beating against 6' steep seas.)

    Takes the ground comfortably and rarely since she'll float on the proverbial heavy dew.


    The boat in the ad has a bit more power than some Meadow Larks I've see. Be interesting to see what pace she can hold. The 5-6 headroom is enough to let you stand bowed to pull up our pants, but a layout allowing seated fore and aft movement (Bolger designed some boats like this) would be a blessing.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Eastern US Great Loop - Best Boat Design???

    Nice thanks for the reply...

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    Default Re: Eastern US Great Loop - Best Boat Design???

    Bolger designed his "Advanced Sharpies" to satisfy requirements like yours. The AS29 may be the most popular. But they are an acquired taste, I think.
    Personally, I would skip the expense and complication of sail, which is of limited value on that route. My ideal boat would be something much like Tad Roberts' Yellow Cedar. 38 feet, long and narrow, it runs on a small diesel.

    Last edited by Woxbox; 05-20-2019 at 08:59 PM. Reason: L
    -Dave

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    Default Re: Eastern US Great Loop - Best Boat Design???

    Quote Originally Posted by Woxbox View Post
    Bolger designed his "Advanced Sharpies" to satisfy requirements like yours. The AS29 may be the most popular. But they are an acquired taste, I think.
    Personally, I would skip the expense and complication of sail, which is of limited value on that route. My ideal boat would be something much like Tad Roberts' Yellow Cedar. 38 feet, long and narrow, it runs on a small diesel.

    exactly what I was thinking too. Comfortable, cheap to run, and it makes no difference which way the wind is blowing.
    -Jim

    Sucker for a pretty face.
    1934 27' Blanchard Cuiser ~ Amazon, Ex. Emalu
    19'6" Caledonia Yawl ~ Sparrow

    Getting into trouble one board at a time.

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    Default Re: Eastern US Great Loop - Best Boat Design???

    Yellow Cedar - WOW, what I beauty !!!!
    and I though that i have seen all Tad's designs already
    "Little Bear" 1955 Fontana 18' - 1958 Atomic 4
    1960 Skippy 12C FeatherCraft - 1947 Mercury KD4 Rocket
    " Fela " 1985 Glen L15 - 1977 Johnson 15 hp
    2016 kayak Mill Creek 13

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Eastern US Great Loop - Best Boat Design???

    Quote Originally Posted by Woxbox View Post
    Bolger designed his "Advanced Sharpies" to satisfy requirements like yours. The AS29 may be the most popular. But they are an acquired taste, I think.
    Personally, I would skip the expense and complication of sail, which is of limited value on that route. My ideal boat would be something much like Tad Roberts' Yellow Cedar. 38 feet, long and narrow, it runs on a small diesel.
    Dave,

    I have looked at the Bolger designs... many to choose from and they can grow on you. I found some other interesting designs online in the archives once I began to dig deeper.

    The as29 is a cheap alternative. I think that I do want to have sails so that I don't have to rely on petrol 100% of the time...

    We are going to go counter clock wise so the trip out to the Turks and Bahamas will be at the end of the route. With that we may be done with it all and not go or we might enjoy sailing in the open ocean. This would be the farthest we would wander from home, but still, I would want sails so that we could keep the fuel cost down as much as possible.

    You understand... I do like Tad's design and I have fallen in love with many of his designs... I first found his designs from the Harry gunkholer sketch. I have many of his sketches on my office wall at work.

    I would love to see some of my favorite Tad sketches built. In fact the Harry two might be something that I would consider.

    https://www.tadroberts.ca/services/small-boats/sail/harry226




    kind of ticks off all the boxes, almost.

    Thanks...

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Eastern US Great Loop - Best Boat Design???

    Another design that I found to be interesting but not my dream boat is the following.

    http://shellbackslibrary.dngoodchild.com/index.php?rt=product/product&path=68_83_194&product_id=587






    here is the text... from the publication:

    Designed by Charles D. Mower

    A happy arrangement of sailing schooner and motor cruiser which will please those who like to sail and still get there on schedule

    To meet the requirements of yachtsmen who desire a power cruiser which can, in an emergency, be handled under sail alone, the type known as the fifty-fifty cruiser has been developed, and has met with considerable favor. The design given here is a representative boat of this type, and has many interesting features as will be seen after a careful study of the plans. While primarily a power boat capable of a cruising speed of nine or ten miles per hour, this design has a knockabout schooner rig of sufficient area to allow the owner to shut off the power and enjoy all the pleasure of sailing whenever there is a good whole sail breeze. There is also the feeling of security in the knowledge that if the engine should go out of business in bad weather, or a tight place, the boat can be handled under sail, and can make port or ride out a gale in safety if necessary. The boat has a maximum of cabin accommodations for her overall length, and not an inch of space is wasted in the interior arrangement. In the extreme bow there is a double stateroom with two built-in berths. Aft of this there is a toilet room on one side and a large clothes closet opposite. The main cabin is amidships, and seems as large as would be found in a boat of double the size. By using the backs of the transom seats as upper berths, sleeping accommodations for four can be provided in the main cabin. The galley is at the after end of the main cabin, and on the opposite side there is room for berthing a paid hand if one is carried. The cockpit is large and most comfortable, either when under way or at anchor with an awning stretched over the main boom. While the draft is small enough to allow cruising by the inside routes, and in comparatively shallow waters, the boat is perfectly seaworthy and suitable for offshore work, and can cruise anywhere the owner’s fancy may take him. These boats are not as fast under sail as the modern cruising schooners with comparatively small auxiliary power, but they are faster under, power, more easily handled and give better cabin accommodations than an auxiliary schooner of the same over all length. The type is sure to appeal strongly to the man who finds it necessary to go to power but who still loves the sail and hates to give it up.

    15 pages, 5 plate(s)

    As for construction, cost and shoal: simply not making the cut. I am also thinking it would be nice to find a hull already built and simply update and modernize...

    Thanks for the time...

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Eastern US Great Loop - Best Boat Design???

    I found this sketch on Duckworks, therefore I will have to contact them about the author and the design.

    This is a "wow" for me as it hits most of what I want... I love the looks of a Schooner but and I am thinking that a scow barge is the best plan for interior and exterior space... I like the idea of this little boat fitting inside of a shipping container, but that is not on our list... but then again to it might be quite cool to ship the boat over to France and sail the canals of Europe... but not really on our radar... maybe someone else might enjoy it thought...

    http://duckworksmagazine.com/15/desi...m#.XOShbohKiUk

    The Scouser 27 by Jeff Gilbert found on Duckworks magazine:

    Ocean-capable Coasting Staysail Scow Schooner

    27' 5" LOD, 25ft LWL x Beam 7ft x Draught 1'6"
    Transom 5 ft beam, bow 4 ft beam.






    TEXT from the article:

    The search goes on for a boat that seems worth the effort and considerable cost of building. Much is against the erstwhile builder, whether they be a teenager, retiree, or something in between. Their enthusiasm is tempered by the scale of the task, the cost of materials spiralling and the cost of a decent building environment is spiralling also. What is left of one's keenness may be blunted by the glut of cheap seaworthy well-built second-hand boats on the market. There are several beautifully built less than 20 year old wooden gaff cutters in the 25ft LOD range available in Australia for $US 11-20k, inch carvel planked on Tasmanian hardwood frames, tan canvas rigs, two berths and salty as a barrel of cod. For example the 25ft on deck Gaff Cutter below, launched in 1996 and fitted with a 23HP marine diesel, is yours for US $19,000, see boatsales.com.au , if it hasn't sold already.

    ...


    Retirement is a time when one wonders how the hell one found time to work! Planning for retirement is a nightmare. If you think too much about money, there's never enough. If you don't consider money at all, there's never enough. My plan is simple. When you've had a gut-full, work 5 years more at an easy steady pace, not seeking advancement and making it clear that you are not up for brownie points by working unpaid overtime. Look after your Personnel people, attend their birthdays and show them that you appreciate the work they do for you, often under high pressure deadlines. (When it comes to retirement management, they can really help. Over-stressed when I left, they awarded me all my sick leave.) Drive a reliable old bomb and throw every penny you can at whatever employer-backed super plan your firm has, preferably a fully funded nonprofit employee benefit. Don't go near any super scheme staffed out of profits. When the five years is up, tell the Boss what you really think. This guarantees a smooth and speedy exit, but doesn't apply if you need post-retirement work. Don't respond to "early retirement" bonuses, they always calculate out badly in the long run. They are only offered in the hope you'll take a mesmerising carrot now instead of collecting 3 later. Like a donkey. I still think its best to break free and clear, leaving the area and any temptation to return to what you know so well it makes you sick. Even if you need money. I'd rather work as a barman than return to what I did for 23 years. No-one in their right mind can last much longer in a modern office, replete as they are with air conditioning, do-gooders and fanatic nit-pickers.


    I digress, its simply that being a retiree, I tend to think of boats and issues that pertain to retirees, a stage of life where you've left too late unless you eat well and exercise sans excess. Its a sad truth that unless one lives aboard, few can afford a boat till they are almost too old to enjoy it. Hence the glut of white-knuckled, white-haired motorbike/powerboat pilots. In 2015 the only way one can raise and maintain the enthusiasm to build a first boat is to tackle the problems head on. Thus you'll need a design that:



    • is relatively simple to build;
    • uses simple affordable tools most of which you already have;
    • employs readily available long-lasting materials (straight grained batten and framing lumber naturally dried if possible),1088 or 2272 certified marine ply, silicon bronze screws (try the Internet), WEST epoxy and glass cloth or DYNEL, bottom coatings, waterproof glue and sealant;
    • is adaptable to personal touches;
    • is handy to its desired task in your home waters, and;
    • is unique , hence a bit exciting.


    This last may not be important to some, but to many builders it is the stamp that makes the whole project worthwhile, and it often involves a leap of faith, by trusting a lesser known designer, but do stick to one who sticks to first principles (no-one wants the best wheelhouse view in the world if the craft is unstable. Designing "outside the envelope" shouldn't mean outside the envelopes of safety and structural strength). "Putting your faith in" is a little strong, its really about spending $80 to $200 on some plans, which is little enough that you don't feel as financially obliged to build as you would be if you spent the $7000 some of our more famous catamaran designers command. At the low price you could even have a check done, but rest assured that if a designer publishes a figure its checked. That doesn't mean designers are immune from typos or transpositions, the usual cause of wrong numbers on a plan.



    I sketched up Scouser as a unique boat, attracted by this alone. I soon found it fits the dot-point list above rather well. The design was inspired by the robust 40-odd-foot coasting timber-carrying scow schooners of Auckland, which had disappeared as working boats, well and truly replaced by trucks by the time I moved there to study maths in 1970. Mostly they carried sawn Kauri planks from North Auckland sawmills to the furniture, home and boat-building businesses of New Zealand's biggest city which nestles between both East and West coast harbours. Most New Zealand housing is built in timber as it will generally withstand the earthquakes common to NZ, the "Shaky Isles". When available, NZ Kauri rated as Australasia's second most preferred planking timber behind Tasmania's Huon pine. Due to enthusiastic logging, unobstructed by any kind of resource management plan, both are now all but extinct and their harvesting rigidly controlled. The gate has been double-locked now that the horse has bolted. Nevertheless boats planked in these rot-resistant timbers sail on, some over 100 years old.


    I also looked closely at Phil Bolger's 28 x 10 foot scow schooner (see Boats with an Open Mind) - a pocket coasting version of the hay-carting Northern California schooners. None have been built s yet , perhaps because of the two aspects I found not to my taste, the short 19 foot Waterline length and the engine power provided by a "Push boat." Phil's design is worthy of study and a very attractive extension of the type. My idea is smaller, mainly in beam, because I couldn't resist the idea of a boat that could be container-hauled, trucked or even towed to the upper reaches of the world's great river and canal systems, with some degree of cost-effectiveness. The chance to cruise the Nile doesn't crop up chatting over the back fence, especially if you don't have one
    (Neighbour or Nile!).


    Scouser is 25 feet on the WL and can be powered by a range of engines - preferably a 40-200HP outboard geared at over 2 to one, or a stern drive unit. A full inboard, could, I fear, turn the boats best feature, its walk-through accommodations, into an obstacle course. However, an imaginative builder could find a way to fit a small unit in, (perhaps in the stern with a V shaft arrangement, perhaps in the mid-cockpit), and it would be highly efficient with a shaft near-parallel to the waterline and a slow-turning 3-bladed high pitch prop. For example, a Westerbeke or Perkins 40HP with a 2 to 1 reduction would cruise Scouser at a handy 8 knots with an hourly diesel burn of under 2 US gallons. A "Scouser', apart from playing on "Scow Schooner", is slang for a Liverpool Resident, whose distinctive English dialect became known worldwide via the Beatles. I'm not poking fun at Liverpudlians, but rather honouring them as they made up many of Britain's Merchant Marine during the dark days of the early 1940's, when the German U-boat Wolf Packs preyed upon convoys of helpless Transatlantic tankers and freighters in frightening numbers.

    ...


    'END'

    I would love this if we were at the 36 foot length and 10 foot width... Maybe Tad (or another) could come up with a comparable design at this size? I just love the rig, just for bragging rites and the awesomeness of it. I like the pilot house as well...

    Thanks again.



    Something that I find lovely, Thanks...


  10. #10
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    Default Re: Eastern US Great Loop - Best Boat Design???

    TEXT from the article:

    The search goes on for a boat that seems worth the effort and considerable cost of building. Much is against the erstwhile builder, whether they be a teenager, retiree, or something in between. Their enthusiasm is tempered by the scale of the task, the cost of materials spiralling and the cost of a decent building environment is spiralling also. What is left of one's keenness may be blunted by the glut of cheap seaworthy well-built second-hand boats on the market. There are several beautifully built less than 20 year old wooden gaff cutters in the 25ft LOD range available in Australia for $US 11-20k, inch carvel planked on Tasmanian hardwood frames, tan canvas rigs, two berths and salty as a barrel of cod. For example the 25ft on deck Gaff Cutter below, launched in 1996 and fitted with a 23HP marine diesel, is yours for US $19,000, see boatsales.com.au , if it hasn't sold already.
    Its a conundrum, for sure. Just about anyone possessing the wherewithal to build such a boat likely doesn't fret much about the cost of fuel or how much is used, except perhaps as a way of keeping some personal score.

    Kevin
    There are two kinds of boaters: those who have run aground, and those who lie about it.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Eastern US Great Loop - Best Boat Design???

    I believe if you were actually in that 27' footer you would say no way. It only has a 7' beam and it is going to be cramped. Forget about stuff like it will fit in a container, you will not be on it then. Focus on your comfort underway.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Eastern US Great Loop - Best Boat Design???

    Given your request for comments about choices for designs only, and question about what boat each of us would choose for ourselves (forgoing comments about your travel plans) Doug Hylan, builder and designer, has already given your criteria for an ICW cruiser much thought. His TUVA II design is larger than what you (or I) would want but it's only a study so far, not a finished design. He would be a good person to talk to about designing an attractive, do-able (he's good with plywood construction) budget-friendly design. Modern outboards for what you are contemplating have so many advantages and diesel outboards are on the way. As you may have read on the cruising forums, the ICW isn't dependably good sailing territory.

    http://www.offcenterharbor.com/2013/...rway/?prev=yes
    Last edited by rbgarr; 05-21-2019 at 09:38 PM.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Eastern US Great Loop - Best Boat Design???

    bjd - Well, if you're not in a hurry to start, and Tad Roberts has designs very close to the mark, it may be time to start a discussion with Tad (or another naval architect) and consider a commission. From your comments I suspect a scow or big garvey hull may be the best place to start.
    -Dave

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    Default Re: Eastern US Great Loop - Best Boat Design???

    What's the boat weight limit you can trailer?

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    Default Re: Eastern US Great Loop - Best Boat Design???

    You might also look at Reuel Parker designs. He has scows and sharpies built of plywood. There may be a few for sale.
    http://www.parker-marine.com/parker2_1.htm

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    Default Re: Eastern US Great Loop - Best Boat Design???

    Quote Originally Posted by 2dogsnight View Post
    Yellow Cedar - WOW, what I beauty !!!!
    and I though that i have seen all Tad's designs already
    I would agree... nice design, but I need/want a bit of sail as well.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Eastern US Great Loop - Best Boat Design???

    Quote Originally Posted by Edward Pearson View Post
    What's the boat weight limit you can trailer?
    Not going to trailer... but ship if needed... I figure that 10 feet is a safe width to get cheap shipping.

    Thanks for the comment.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Eastern US Great Loop - Best Boat Design???

    Quote Originally Posted by johngsandusky View Post
    You might also look at Reuel Parker designs. He has scows and sharpies built of plywood. There may be a few for sale.
    http://www.parker-marine.com/parker2_1.htm
    I do like the Reual Parker designs, but nothing jumps off the page at me.

    I think I need to understand what makes a good motor-sailor hull design. I want to be efficient and yet still able to sail as often as I can. Granted I will not be entering any races, but I still want something that will motor and sail with the most efficient.

    I really love the Idea of a scow if I need to build... Kind of like a barge to build directly on the ground keeping it low and shoal will keep ease of construction and material handling as easy as possible.

    I have been looking for many years now for the best design, but now we have the added "loop" wish list to deal with, it only makes sense to have something that will be a coastal cruiser with motoring efficiency within rivers currents etc.

    Thanks... for the help, I'd still like to hear more of what you would choose... I see the point of strictly a cruiser, but I don't want to be committed to fuel for the entire trip.

    B.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Eastern US Great Loop - Best Boat Design???

    I agree that a sail rig would be more trouble than its worth.
    If you have only a few years and not ten to get ready, and if you intend to sell the boat after the voyage, Id strongly suggest buying an existing well-known boat where theres an established market.
    Id start with trawler yachts in the 32-36 range. Maybe a Grand Banks 36.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Eastern US Great Loop - Best Boat Design???

    I used to think about these economies a lot. When we had our 35' catamaran, when the air was still it would cruise on one of it's two diesels at 6 knots, burning just 0.6 gallons per hour. That's a two-cylinder Yanmar pushing 3 roomy double cabins and a big saloon. The boat was 20 feet wide. We took it up and down the IC, and between the narrow channels and typical light summer wind, sailing was for days when the point was to sail, not get some miles ticked off. Once out on open water, of course, we never used the motors.

    Anyhow, the rig for a 36' boat is going to cost what, $20,000? At $4 a gallon, that's 5,000 gallons of fuel. Even at 1 gallon per hour at 6 knots, you have to go 30,000 nautical miles before you start to pay for not having put sails on the boat. I wondered how much speed we'd have picked up if we removed the rig on that catamaran.

    Of course, there is a pleasure to sailing that goes well beyond the cost, plus or minus.
    -Dave

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    Default Re: Eastern US Great Loop - Best Boat Design???

    If it had to be a sailboat...Maurice Griffiths Tidewater.





    6.6 tons for when you're outside the ICW. Spoon bow for dryness. 6" foredeck comaing for safety on the foredeck or built flush decked. Relatively shallow draft (sub 1m) for Bahamas. Triple keel configuration for drying out upright happily and reducing rolling downwind. 4 berth and a separate toilet. Inboard diesel with prop wash infront of the rudder to help turning under power. Mast in a tabernackle. The boom attaches to the tabernackle and the mast drops above it. Stern davits carry the tender. Choice of rigs. Those built as a cutter appartently track very well, balance well when healed. Lines show nice fore and aft balance. Forward overhang to keep the boat dry. Self draining cockpit. No need for windvanes. The smaller version (Lone Gull II) he cruised himself with his wife. Under your beam limit & 30ft LOD. She's in his book for more info.



    It can do this.



    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Edward Pearson; 05-23-2019 at 05:12 AM.

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    Default Re: Eastern US Great Loop - Best Boat Design???

    This Is a good article about motorsailer design by Ted Brewer. https://audioseastories.com/dissecting-the-motorsailer/

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    Default Re: Eastern US Great Loop - Best Boat Design???

    A sailing, fast motorsailer, waterborne RV https://cobrokerage.boatsgroupwebsit...8&currency=USD

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    Default Re: Eastern US Great Loop - Best Boat Design???

    I wonder what the headroom is on that Shannon?

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    Default Re: Eastern US Great Loop - Best Boat Design???

    Quote Originally Posted by Woxbox View Post
    I used to think about these economies a lot. When we had our 35' catamaran, when the air was still it would cruise on one of it's two diesels at 6 knots, burning just 0.6 gallons per hour. That's a two-cylinder Yanmar pushing 3 roomy double cabins and a big saloon. The boat was 20 feet wide. We took it up and down the IC, and between the narrow channels and typical light summer wind, sailing was for days when the point was to sail, not get some miles ticked off. Once out on open water, of course, we never used the motors.

    Anyhow, the rig for a 36' boat is going to cost what, $20,000? At $4 a gallon, that's 5,000 gallons of fuel. Even at 1 gallon per hour at 6 knots, you have to go 30,000 nautical miles before you start to pay for not having put sails on the boat. I wondered how much speed we'd have picked up if we removed the rig on that catamaran.

    Of course, there is a pleasure to sailing that goes well beyond the cost, plus or minus.
    Dave has nailed it. You said you were on a budget. The budget friendly option is to forego the sailing rig.

  26. #26
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    Sep 2007
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    1,626

    Default Re: Eastern US Great Loop - Best Boat Design???

    Budget friendly is buying a used boat. Here's an old wooden boat that would be impossible to build for this price.
    https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/196...ketch-3058847/
    Last edited by navydog; 05-23-2019 at 03:27 PM.

  27. #27
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    Apr 1999
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    West Boothbay Harbor, Maine
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    Default Re: Eastern US Great Loop - Best Boat Design???

    I like that S&S motor sailer. It's interesting that there are no windshield wipers on the windsceen sections.

  28. #28
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Location
    Melbourne, FL, USA
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    53

    Default Re: Eastern US Great Loop - Best Boat Design???

    Quote Originally Posted by rbgarr View Post
    Given your request for comments about choices for designs only, and question about what boat each of us would choose for ourselves (forgoing comments about your travel plans) Doug Hylan, builder and designer, has already given your criteria for an ICW cruiser much thought. His TUVA II design is larger than what you (or I) would want but it's only a study so far, not a finished design. He would be a good person to talk to about designing an attractive, do-able (he's good with plywood construction) budget-friendly design. Modern outboards for what you are contemplating have so many advantages and diesel outboards are on the way. As you may have read on the cruising forums, the ICW isn't dependably good sailing territory.

    http://www.offcenterharbor.com/2013/...rway/?prev=yes

    Read the article... very good insight.

    Thanks...

    B.

  29. #29
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    Jan 2019
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    Melbourne, FL, USA
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    Default Re: Eastern US Great Loop - Best Boat Design???

    Quote Originally Posted by navydog View Post
    This Is a good article about motorsailer design by Ted Brewer. https://audioseastories.com/dissecting-the-motorsailer/
    Read the article... Great insight...

    Thanks,

    B.

  30. #30
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    Jan 2019
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    Melbourne, FL, USA
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    Default Re: Eastern US Great Loop - Best Boat Design???

    Quote Originally Posted by JimConlin View Post
    I agree that a sail rig would be more trouble than it’s worth.
    If you have only ‘a few’ years and not ten to get ready, and if you intend to sell the boat after the voyage, I’d strongly suggest buying an existing well-known boat where there’s an established market.
    I’d start with trawler yachts in the 32-36’ range. Maybe a Grand Banks 36.
    Thanks... Started to look at what is out there... not much in shallow draft or light weight. I found tons of fiberglass heavy cruisers at a cheap price, but then you have the issue with relying on fuel stops every 300-500 miles... to fill huge vats of diesel.

    I like the idea of an outboard in a covered well with only 5000 to 8000 pounds to push around.

    I almost considered a '65 Chris Craft Commander Fly Bridge 38 footer that was almost free... but then again it's another 20,000 pounds of diesel drinking alcoholic uncle that won't stop telling crass jokes.

    I think that so many are telling me to stay away from sails... so I get it now... I think that I will look to have an auxiliary sail for sea keeping and wind vane while at anchor. As below... also maybe a limp to dock - save the towing hassle type of rig. also makes a great place for lookout, and equipment (radar etc). also I like the Idea of a boom crane for the dingy and scooters...





    Thanks again.

  31. #31
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    Jan 2019
    Location
    Melbourne, FL, USA
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    Default Re: Eastern US Great Loop - Best Boat Design???

    Quote Originally Posted by Woxbox View Post
    I used to think about these economies a lot. When we had our 35' catamaran, when the air was still it would cruise on one of it's two diesels at 6 knots, burning just 0.6 gallons per hour. That's a two-cylinder Yanmar pushing 3 roomy double cabins and a big saloon. The boat was 20 feet wide. We took it up and down the IC, and between the narrow channels and typical light summer wind, sailing was for days when the point was to sail, not get some miles ticked off. Once out on open water, of course, we never used the motors.

    Anyhow, the rig for a 36' boat is going to cost what, $20,000? At $4 a gallon, that's 5,000 gallons of fuel. Even at 1 gallon per hour at 6 knots, you have to go 30,000 nautical miles before you start to pay for not having put sails on the boat. I wondered how much speed we'd have picked up if we removed the rig on that catamaran.

    Of course, there is a pleasure to sailing that goes well beyond the cost, plus or minus.

    Great point... I get it now... not worth the effort for a sail boat... I'm on your page now.

    B.

  32. #32
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
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    Melbourne, FL, USA
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    53

    Default Re: Eastern US Great Loop - Best Boat Design???

    Quote Originally Posted by Edward Pearson View Post
    If it had to be a sailboat...Maurice Griffiths Tidewater.

    6.6 tons for when you're outside the ICW. Spoon bow for dryness. 6" foredeck comaing for safety on the foredeck or built flush decked. Relatively shallow draft (sub 1m) for Bahamas. Triple keel configuration for drying out upright happily and reducing rolling downwind. 4 berth and a separate toilet. Inboard diesel with prop wash infront of the rudder to help turning under power. Mast in a tabernackle. The boom attaches to the tabernackle and the mast drops above it. Stern davits carry the tender. Choice of rigs. Those built as a cutter appartently track very well, balance well when healed. Lines show nice fore and aft balance. Forward overhang to keep the boat dry. Self draining cockpit. No need for windvanes. The smaller version (Lone Gull II) he cruised himself with his wife. Under your beam limit & 30ft LOD. She's in his book for more info.
    I do like the boat... does tick most boxes... But I think now with the support of this forum we are leaning away from a sailboat.

    Thanks,

    B.

  33. #33
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    Jan 2019
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    Melbourne, FL, USA
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    53

    Default Re: Eastern US Great Loop - Best Boat Design???

    Quote Originally Posted by rbgarr View Post
    A sailing, fast motorsailer, waterborne RV https://cobrokerage.boatsgroupwebsit...8&currency=USD

    Thanks... not really in my budget... but is a nice boat.

    B.

  34. #34
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    Jan 2019
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    Melbourne, FL, USA
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    Default Re: Eastern US Great Loop - Best Boat Design???

    Quote Originally Posted by ThomRose View Post
    Dave has nailed it. You said you were on a budget. The budget friendly option is to forego the sailing rig.

    Yes you are correct Sir. We are moving away from a sailboat.

    Thanks,

    B.

  35. #35
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    Jan 2019
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    Melbourne, FL, USA
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    53

    Default Re: Eastern US Great Loop - Best Boat Design???

    Quote Originally Posted by navydog View Post
    Budget friendly is buying a used boat. Here's an old wooden boat that would be impossible to build for this price.
    https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/196...ketch-3058847/

    Thanks... I would agree, However this one is 32,000 pounds and not shoal draft... also the rig is way too much to deal with raising etc. Way too big for us.

    Thanks again,

    B.

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