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Thread: David Frum is really worried about a potential US-Iran war

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    Default David Frum is really worried about a potential US-Iran war

    Gerard>
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    Default Re: David Frum is really worried about a potential US-Iran war

    Being really cynical, if there is a war against Iran, you can bet that it would be profitable to buy shares in a company that makes body bags.
    17 years in Afghanistan with significant support from a number of other countries, and still no end in sight. Iran would be a much tougher prospect.

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    Default Re: David Frum is really worried about a potential US-Iran war

    Just part of Putin’s long game?

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    Default Re: David Frum is really worried about a potential US-Iran war

    David's not alone. I feel I've seen this movie before.
    How do we form a mutiny? Our new captain is navigating poorly.

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    Default Re: David Frum is really worried about a potential US-Iran war

    what, Frum has regrets?
    oh eff I read a few paragraphs in and he pleads ignorance. Eff him and his tribe.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Frum

    A speechwriter for President George W. Bush, Frum later authored the first book about Bush's presidency written by a former member of the administration.[4] He was credited with inspiring the phrase "axis of evil" in Bush's 2002 State of the Union address.[5]


    Following the 2000 election of George W. Bush, Frum was appointed to a position within the White House. He would later write that when he was first offered the job by chief Bush speechwriter Michael Gerson,

    I believed I was unsuited to the job he was offering me. I had no connection to the Bush campaign or the Bush family. I had no experience in government and little of political campaigns. I had not written a speech for anyone other than myself. And I had been only a moderately enthusiastic supporter of George W. Bush … I strongly doubted he was the right man for the job.[16]
    .
    .
    Frum's book An End to Evil was co-written with Richard Perle. It provided a defense of the 2003 invasion of Iraq, and advocated regime change in Iran and Syria. It called for a tougher policy toward North Korea, and a tougher US stance against Saudi Arabia and other Islamic nations in order to "win the war on terror" (from the book's subtitle).
    Last edited by LeeG; 05-15-2019 at 09:19 PM.

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    Default Re: David Frum is really worried about a potential US-Iran war

    What's this? Another fellow traveler and beneficiary of pres. Dick's falsely motivated adventures in Iran rewriting his ow history?

    Who'd a thunk it?

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    Default Re: David Frum is really worried about a potential US-Iran war

    Quote Originally Posted by LeeG View Post
    what, Frum has regrets?
    oh eff I read a few paragraphs in and he pleads ignorance. Eff him and his tribe.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Frum

    A speechwriter for President George W. Bush, Frum later authored the first book about Bush's presidency written by a former member of the administration.[4] He was credited with inspiring the phrase "axis of evil" in Bush's 2002 State of the Union address.[5]


    Following the 2000 election of George W. Bush, Frum was appointed to a position within the White House. He would later write that when he was first offered the job by chief Bush speechwriter Michael Gerson,

    I believed I was unsuited to the job he was offering me. I had no connection to the Bush campaign or the Bush family. I had no experience in government and little of political campaigns. I had not written a speech for anyone other than myself. And I had been only a moderately enthusiastic supporter of George W. Bush … I strongly doubted he was the right man for the job.[16]
    .
    .
    Frum's book An End to Evil was co-written with Richard Perle. It provided a defense of the 2003 invasion of Iraq, and advocated regime change in Iran and Syria. It called for a tougher policy toward North Korea, and a tougher US stance against Saudi Arabia and other Islamic nations in order to "win the war on terror" (from the book's subtitle).
    Absolutely, EFF HIM and his Tribe. F##Kers.

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    Default Re: David Frum is really worried about a potential US-Iran war

    Will any country, other than Australia, form a coalition with trump?
    Ask me! I've got my Leatherman!

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    Default Re: David Frum is really worried about a potential US-Iran war

    ^ Troll. NFW!!
    Xanthorrea

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    Default Re: David Frum is really worried about a potential US-Iran war

    ^Perhaps as Russia does and has paid a substantive price. The US has no stomach for a "total" war of attrition. The rest of comparatively advanced economies know the real price and will act accordingly. Imagine the US as a trading and economic pariah? I can !
    Quote Originally Posted by ron ll View Post
    Just part of Putin’s long game?
    Xanthorrea

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    Default Re: David Frum is really worried about a potential US-Iran war

    You mean you do not believe the stories being told to you by the country that dismembered a US citizen and lied about it?

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    Default Re: David Frum is really worried about a potential US-Iran war

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Bow View Post
    Will any country, other than Australia, form a coalition with trump?
    New Zealand has had troops alongside US troops in every conflict since WW1 plus several where the US was not involved, but against Iran? Not a chance.

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    Default Re: David Frum is really worried about a potential US-Iran war

    Nobody should be surprised. I've been imploring my Army buddy to retire for two years and he thinks I'm overreacting. The moment Erik Prince walked in to talk "Iran Policy" and Bolton joined the team it was a done deal. Throw in the support of the fundamentalist apocalyptic crowd and away we go.

    This is all and has been much bigger news in Europe, and has been. Most Americans can't find Iran on a map and it sounds like danger, so no one cares.

    "1979Bolton" thinks in analog. The retaliation will be digital.

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    Default Re: David Frum is really worried about a potential US-Iran war

    As far as Frum as an individual is concerned, you have to keep open the possibility of redemption. Sometimes people who do a 180 in life get real serious about their new direction.
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    Default Re: David Frum is really worried about a potential US-Iran war

    Quote Originally Posted by Osborne Russell View Post
    As far as Frum as an individual is concerned, you have to keep open the possibility of redemption. Sometimes people who do a 180 in life get real serious about their new direction.
    Except I don’t see him acknowledging the willful deception perpetrated on Congress and the country by the team he was on. He essentially says “We meant well”. See, if the US presidency and Pentagon wasn’t so naive, ignorant and planned better it would have worked out. There is no redemption here. There is a heartfelt warning about Iran but also some spin about what he was a part of.

    Frum: The Iraq War of 2003 was undone by blithe assumptions, cultural ignorance, and careless planning. But compared with the accelerating drive to confront Iran, the Iraq War looks like a masterpiece of meticulous preparation.

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    Default Re: David Frum is really worried about a potential US-Iran war

    Frum was an active ideological soldier taking the country into hegemonic wars. The neocons believe the Congress and American people need to be deceived into the right direction. He doesn’t acknowledge this but it was his role to catapult the administrations propaganda. Maybe when he’s in his 80’s he’ll redeem himself. No doubt that will bring comfort to millions of Iraqis.

    https://www.salon.com/2004/01/30/frum_perle/

    Forget "The Tell-Tale Heart." Put down "The Shining." Retire that dog-eared copy of H.P. Lovecraft's "The Lurking Fear." If you really want to feel the cold fingers of fear running up and down your spine, pick up David Frum and Richard Perle's "An End to Evil: How to Win the War on Terror." It's the scariest book since the novel Saddam Hussein reportedly wrote while his underlings pretended to work on those nonexistent weapons-of-mass-destruction-related program activities -- you remember, the ones the authors and their friends in the White House used to justify invading Iraq.

    "An End to Evil" is like Bush on crack. It's a kind of neocon orgy, a Bohemian Grove weekend for militaristic moralists, a chance to get naked and do tribal, Lord of the Flies dances -- "Invade Iran! Kill Yasser! Drink Kim's blood!" But if its recommendations are a little too extreme even for the George W. Bush-Dick Cheney-Paul Wolfowitz triumvirate, its underlying worldview is identical to theirs. It's a kind of CAT scan of the Bush administration's collective brain, an entity so weird it should be cryogenically frozen so future scientists can study it. Frum, a former Bush speechwriter and author of a recent encomium to his ex-boss, presumably represents the right brain, glibly spinning and selling, while neocon guru Richard Perle provides the left-hemisphere gray matter. With its trademarked combination of chipper propaganda, bullying bluster, intellectual dishonesty and radical policy prescriptions, "An End to Evil" offers a guided tour of the mind of George W. Bush, as filtered through the higher-grade neurons of its authors.

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    Default Re: David Frum is really worried about a potential US-Iran war

    FWIW, our current president has just publicly said he doesn't want a war with Iran.

    Since almost literally every word he says is a lie, I can't believe that, but I hope for once it's tue.
    Gerard>
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    Default Re: David Frum is really worried about a potential US-Iran war

    Re Frum - he's definitely been sounding much sensible lately, although that may just be by contrast. But still, it doesn't require 'redemption', being right about many things, or even sincere acknowledgement of past mistakes for a guy to be right in a particular instance. Bolton's a bloodthirsty militarist, and Trump's an easily-manipulated fool. That's not a good combination.
    Last edited by Keith Wilson; 05-16-2019 at 01:59 PM.
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    Default Re: David Frum is really worried about a potential US-Iran war

    Yow! He's got some splaining to do, for sure.

    On the domestic front, Frum and Perle advocate more intense policing of immigrants and citizens alike. They cite approvingly a few Portland, Ore. residents who reported a neighbor to the authorities after he grew a beard, donned traditional Arab garb, and started attending a mosque. To help keep track of suspicious behavior, they call for all Americans to carry a “national identification card” with information including “retinal scans or DNA.”

    Washington insiders speculate that Frum did most of the writing work for the book, and his unequivocal style is evident, never more so than in the line, “There is no middle way for Americans: It is victory or holocaust.”

    Frum and Perle argue that “we must destroy regimes implicated in anti-American terrorism,” and provide a list of potential targets, including North Korea, Syria, Libya, Saudi Arabia and Iran.

    “We must move boldly against them… . And we don’t have much time,” they write.

    Read more: https://forward.com/news/6064/neocon...y-to-end-evil/
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    Default Re: David Frum is really worried about a potential US-Iran war

    Quote Originally Posted by Osborne Russell View Post
    Yow! He's got some splaining to do, for sure.
    Splainin’ is all he does. He’s job was to convince Congress to believe lies and disinformation. That is his stock in trade and he still can’t admit it. He is out molding opinion for a greater good only his fellow travelers can see. Oops, we made the wrong assumptions, didn’t plan it out well enough but gosh darn it the evil is out there and he’s the one to point it out.

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    Default Re: David Frum is really worried about a potential US-Iran war

    The Islamists say they want to not just lay waste to Israel but to kill as many Jews and their in the meantime as they can manage; and they define "Jew" and "ally" broadly. So guys like Frum figure, that means me, for sure. So he gets rattled. That's one thing, but hijacking American foreign policy is taking it quite a bit too far. Do you suppose he has an AR-15?
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    Default Re: David Frum is really worried about a potential US-Iran war

    Because a man was wrong before, doesn't mean he's wrong now.
    Because a man is wrong about some things (and all of us are), doesn't mean he's wrong in any specific instance.
    Who but Frum knows more about overreach and the risks of starting unnecessary wars?
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

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    Default Re: David Frum is really worried about a potential US-Iran war

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    Because a man was wrong before, doesn't mean he's wrong now.
    Because a man is wrong about some things (and all of us are), doesn't mean he's wrong in any specific instance.
    Who but Frum knows more about overreach and the risks of starting unnecessary wars?
    Keith, it’s not that he’s right now and wrong then, it’s that he shouldn’t be listened to to begin with. His expertise isn’t interpreting ground reality but forming perceptions in the public for those who move levers of power. He’s not a military strategist or expert in the various actors in the middle east. He may have learned what Shinseki and hundreds of experts knew back in 2001 but his role was to make the deceptions work and he does not acknowledge that. The article is full of rationalizations for his self confessed innocent ignorance when his whole schtick of naming evil still continues.
    We are good and they are evil, period. He is too smart to frame reality that way but it works for forming perceptions.


    “I still think President Bush did right to warn the world of an “axis of evil” in his 2002 State of the Union address, a speech to which I made some modest contributions. (I tell the story in a memoir, The Right Man.) Back then, it was controversial to claim that North Korea was proliferating weapons technologies to Iran and Syria, or that Shiite Iran armed and supplied Sunni Hamas. These things are now universally known. But the step from describing the problem to acting on it was large and inadequately considered.”

    He wasn’t describing the problem he was stoking fear. He feels he was right about “warning the world” when the world can do just fine assessing threats.

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    Default Re: David Frum is really worried about a potential US-Iran war

    US commentator this morning was positing that Boulton, having gotten himself into a position of power us using his position to manoeuvre the US into a position where a US attack is almost unavoidable.

    I note with interest: "Frum and Perle argue that “we must destroy regimes implicated in anti-American terrorism,” and provide a list of potential targets, including North Korea, Syria, Libya, Saudi Arabia and Iran."

    Seems you are well down that path again, joining the above, incomplete, list of terrorist states.

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    Default Re: David Frum is really worried about a potential US-Iran war

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    US commentator this morning was positing that Boulton, having gotten himself into a position of power us using his position to manoeuvre the US into a position where a US attack is almost unavoidable.

    I note with interest: "Frum and Perle argue that “we must destroy regimes implicated in anti-American terrorism,” and provide a list of potential targets, including North Korea, Syria, Libya, Saudi Arabia and Iran."

    Seems you are well down that path again, joining the above, incomplete, list of terrorist states.
    Bullies who get off on displays of power will get their noses bloodied until they learn what that power is for.

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    Default Re: David Frum is really worried about a potential US-Iran war

    I'd like to think that is the way this will work out. Otherwise a lot of innocents on both side are likely to have a deal more than their noses bloodied.

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    Default Re: David Frum is really worried about a potential US-Iran war

    Quote Originally Posted by LeeG View Post
    Except I don’t see him acknowledging the willful deception perpetrated on Congress and the country by the team he was on. He essentially says “We meant well”. See, if the US presidency and Pentagon wasn’t so naive, ignorant and planned better it would have worked out. There is no redemption here. There is a heartfelt warning about Iran but also some spin about what he was a part of.

    Frum: The Iraq War of 2003 was undone by blithe assumptions, cultural ignorance, and careless planning. But compared with the accelerating drive to confront Iran, the Iraq War looks like a masterpiece of meticulous preparation.
    I've posted the quote from Hillary that she (and some others) voted for that resolution in the hope it would force Saddam to comply with weapons inspectors. Hans Blix, the chief inspector, reported having total unfettered access as of Nov. 27, 2002. NO MILITARY ACTION WAS NECESSARY. Just more time for the inspectors. G.W. DENIED them that time and invaded.

    THAT'S ACTUAL HISTORY
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    Default Re: David Frum is really worried about a potential US-Iran war

    Quote Originally Posted by Gerarddm View Post
    FWIW, our current president has just publicly said he doesn't want a war with Iran.

    Since almost literally every word he says is a lie, I can't believe that, but I hope for once it's tue.
    I was going to say that pretty much insures us going to war.
    How do we form a mutiny? Our new captain is navigating poorly.

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    Default Re: David Frum is really worried about a potential US-Iran war

    The opinion of the commentator this morning was that Boulton was running the show and donald was just a patsy. BUT donald likes to think he's in charge and maybe Boulton has overcooked it and might be out……..

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    Default Re: David Frum is really worried about a potential US-Iran war

    Hmm, reading between the lines donald may very well act on "intelligence" re Iran that originated in Israel, and even then a=is somewhat ambiguous. What's the chance that the 'attacks' on the shipping was Israel, with US cooperation? Brit intelligence evidently says it wasn't Iran, a 'black op' of sorts?
    Bolton wants a war, donald may very well also for electoral reasons after all that's what he accused Obama of being about. There's the carrier group, 120,000 troops for the ME, bombers……. If you get a war it certainly will not be by accident. Under the treaty Iran has to export its heavy water and uranium, which they have been doing. So guess who just stopped those exports, meaning that soon enough Iran will be in breach of its nuclear treaty, giving donald an excuse……….
    Israel is up to it's neck in this little charade, but they are just doing what Bolton and maybe donald want...

    I do hope that the next Australian government has the discipline and sense to stay away.

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