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Thread: King Donald

  1. #1
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    Default King Donald

    .
    Trump seems to be going for Divine Right.

    By Dana Millbank:

    In 1787, the framers gave us a president, not a king.

    On Tuesday, lawyers for President Trump gave a dissenting opinion.

    In the first of many courtroom showdowns between Trump’s executive branch and the legislative branch, Trump’s lawyer William Consovoy argued to U.S. District Court Judge Amit Mehta that Congress has no authority to pry into Trump’s finances. That was expected. Unexpected was Consovoy’s broader argument: that Congress has essentially no authority to investigate any president for anything. Sorry, Sam Ervin: Even the Watergate investigation would have been illegal under the theory offered by Trump’s team.

    Consovoy, a beefy former law clerk to Justice Clarence Thomas, offered two related points:

    (A) Congress can’t issue a subpoena or otherwise probe a president unless it is doing so for a “legitimate legislative purpose.”

    (B) Any “legitimate legislative purpose” Congress could conceivably devise would be unconstitutional.

    As a result, Consovoy argued, Congress can’t investigate to see if a law is being broken, can’t inform the public of wrongdoing by the executive and can’t look for presidential conflicts of interest or corruption, because that would be “law enforcement.”

    Forget about the Unitary Executive Theory. This one is closer to the Divine Right of Kings.

    Mehta, an Obama appointee, probed for the limits of this breathtaking theory but found none:

    Trump’s finances are not subject to investigation?

    “Correct,” Consovoy informed the judge.

    Congress can’t verify the accuracy of the president’s financial statements?

    “Correct.”

    If “a president was involved in some corrupt enterprise, you mean to tell me because he is the president of the United States, Congress would not have power to investigate?”

    No, Consovoy said, because that’s “not pursuant to its legislative agenda.”

    Consovoy, who is representing Trump as he tries to block the president’s accounting firm from fulfilling a subpoena from the House Oversight Committee for Trump’s financial records, further declared that Congress can’t investigate a president to inform the public of malfeasance (“the president is not an agency”), to see whether a president has a financial conflict of interest in a piece of legislation (“it would lack legitimate legislative purpose”), nor to discover whether financial conflicts impair a president’s ability to make sound policy (“that is law enforcement”).

    But surely Congress could investigate a president’s compliance with the Constitution’s emoluments clause?

    “I respectfully disagree in part,” Consovoy persisted, saying Congress can’t engage in “anything that looks like a law enforcement investigation.”

    Even the Whitewater and Watergate investigations exceeded congressional authority?

    Here, Consovoy demurred (“I’d have to look,” he said), rather than admit his theory would have indeed banned both.

    The Supreme Court has said judges shouldn’t look at Congress’s motives (even if they appear to be political) for investigating the executive, deferring to the legislature on what is a legitimate legislative function. But Consovoy told Mehta that “I don’t think the court can ignore” the Democrats’ motives, as expressed in public statements, and he called their legislative reasons “retroactive rationalizations.” Consovoy’s own argument sounded more political than legal at times. His brief began: “The Democrat Party . . . has declared all-out political war against President Donald J. Trump. Subpoenas are their weapon of choice.”

    Consovoy’s argument was so aggressive, it seemed Trump’s lawyers expected defeat in the lower court and were looking for a higher court to reinterpret the law in Trump’s favor or, more likely, for the appeals to stretch until after the 2020 election. Consovoy sought delays for discovery and more arguments, saying it would be a disservice if “I did not go into depth.” But Mehta brushed off these attempts, saying he would close the record this week. And the judge flatly rejected Consovoy’s exotic argument that Mehta should preemptively declare unconstitutional any hypothetical legislation Congress might come up with related to its probe of Trump’s finances.

    Douglas Letter, arguing for the House, said Consovoy’s position would require declaring unconstitutional “a whole batch” of laws that require disclosure by the president: the Ethics in Government Act, the Presidential Records Act and the Stock Act against insider trading. Under Consovoy’s theory, Congress couldn’t even investigate whether Trump really took himself out of the lease he had with the General Services Administration to run Washington’s Trump International Hotel.

    At one point in the 90-minute argument, the judge asked Letter why the House wanted Trump’s private business records, because “this is not an impeachment proceeding.” And that’s the irony: As strong as the House’s oversight case is now, lawmakers would have more constitutional authority to demand information from Trump if they launched impeachment proceedings. Trump’s reckless legal argument is one more way in which he is goading the House to impeach him.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...pinions&wpmm=1
    "Trump's authoritarianism is a feature not a bug." -- Sky Blue






  2. #2
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    Default Re: King Donald

    Maybe he'll end up like Charles 1!

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    Default Re: King Donald

    Many precedents. I'll go with Louis XVI.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

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    Default Re: King Donald

    how does that idiot manage to even stay alive?
    Pet photography, the degree you get when you fail aromatherapy - Duck D.

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    Default Re: King Donald

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    Many precedents. I'll go with Louis XVI.
    Those are the first obvious ones most people will be familiar with. Personally, from what I understand, Edward 11 had the most painful death.

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    Default Re: King Donald

    The legal arguments being proposed are genuinely frightening.... and are the first time I've ever heard arguments which amount to the notion that a President is above the law.

    We all ought to be scared.
    "Reason and facts are sacrificed to opinion and myth. Demonstrable falsehoods are circulated and recycled as fact. Narrow minded opinion refuses to be subjected to thought and analysis. Too many now subject events to a prefabricated set of interpretations, usually provided by a biased media source. The myth is more comfortable than the often difficult search for truth."







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    Default Re: King Donald

    Quote Originally Posted by Norman Bernstein View Post
    We all ought to be scared.
    I’ll settle for focused. There are so many pans on the fire right now.

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    Default Re: King Donald

    And to think that in 2016 there were Forumites who considered Trump to be the lesser of two evils.
    "Trump's authoritarianism is a feature not a bug." -- Sky Blue






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    Default Re: King Donald

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Montgomery View Post
    And to think that in 2016 there were Forumites who considered Trump to be the lesser of two evils.
    They were a lot more vocal during Obama presidency.

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    Default Re: King Donald

    The framers is the constitution would have had a answer to Trump and his lawyers. There was no tolerance for a man without honor. I am sure the second amendment believers would have a hard time disagreeing with the philosophy.

    59FF29D2-32B2-4C1E-B642-04085270BFA8.jpg

    I’d settle for an old fashioned tar, feather and rail ride for the lot.
    A large nose is the mark of a witty, courteous, affable, generous and liberal man. My feature suggests an excellent side kick of good index.

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    Default Re: King Donald

    And that’s the irony: As strong as the House’s oversight case is now, lawmakers would have more constitutional authority to demand information from Trump if they launched impeachment proceedings.
    No irony at all. This has been the case since 1787. Every day spent waiting for the Mueller Report was a day wasted.

    The irony, if any, is that this mechanism protects the President from the kind of fishing expeditions of which the Republicans pretend to complain.

    The House can begin impeachment for a sham reason, but elections are never far off. This is the very thing that has prevented impeachment so far.
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    Default Re: King Donald

    All it takes is a passive citizenry and authoritarianism is how we prefer to be ruled. Not represented, not governed but ruled over. All brought to you from the party that espouses personal liberty. This is as ironic as GW using Powell to bury the Powell Doctrine.

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    Default Re: King Donald

    Well, he fashions himself after Mussolini -- let him go out the same way. Hanged from a lamp post.
    "The future is already here — it's just not very evenly distributed." William Gibson

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    Default Re: King Donald

    Quote Originally Posted by Katherine View Post
    how does that idiot manage to even stay alive?
    Are you kidding? There are short-sighted fools who hate government so much that they eat this up! They have no idea where it leads.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeeG View Post
    All it takes is a passive citizenry and authoritarianism is how we prefer to be ruled. Not represented, not governed but ruled over.
    "Cared for" sounds so much nicer.

    "Obama doesn't love you." -- Rudy Giuliani


    "I do not believe -- and I know this is a horrible thing to say -- but I do not believe that the president loves America," said Giuliani, the former New York City mayor and one-time presidential contender, according to Politico. "He doesn't love you. And he doesn't love me. He wasn't brought up the way you were brought up and I was brought up through love of this country."

    https://www.cnn.com/2015/02/19/polit...ove/index.html
    He's a Mexican. -- Donald Trump.
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    Default Re: King Donald

    Quote Originally Posted by LeeG View Post
    All it takes is a passive citizenry and authoritarianism is how we prefer to be ruled. Not represented, not governed but ruled over. All brought to you from the party that espouses personal liberty. This is as ironic as GW using Powell to bury the Powell Doctrine.
    Well well, what have I been saying for some time………an Imperial Presidency indeed………
    and all he needs now is a nice little war with Iran, and an escalating dispute with China, and a state of emergency re anything he can dream as well as Chinese tech. equipment, and postponement of an election because of 'special circumstances'………..

    "A republic….if you can keep it"

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    Default Re: King Donald

    Quote Originally Posted by CWSmith View Post
    Are you kidding? There are short-sighted fools who hate government so much that they eat this up! They have no idea where it leads.
    I suspect, rather, that they are comfortable with where this leads.

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    Default Re: King Donald

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    Well well, what have I been saying for some time………an Imperial Presidency indeed………
    and all he needs now is a nice little war with Iran, and an escalating dispute with China, and a state of emergency re anything he can dream as well as Chinese tech. equipment, and postponement of an election because of 'special circumstances'………..

    "A republic….if you can keep it"
    Yes, but you often say there is some structural or systemic defect that must be cured first. Whereas, Trump could be removed from office by tomorrow afternoon under very ordinary procedures.
    He's a Mexican. -- Donald Trump.
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    Default Re: King Donald

    Quote Originally Posted by Katherine View Post
    how does that idiot manage to even stay alive?
    Just tell him that it is illegal to breathe
    "If you think you are too small to make a difference, try sleeping with a mosquito"

    -Dalai Lama

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osborne Russell View Post
    Yes, but you often say there is some structural or systemic defect that must be cured first. Whereas, Trump could be removed from office by tomorrow afternoon under very ordinary procedures.
    But it won't happen because donald has his party in thrall, and it would all fall apart if they, now, decided to come clean. The crooks are in charge of the treasury and they won't give it, and the illusion of power, up easily.

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    Default Re: King Donald

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    But it won't happen because donald has his party in thrall, and it would all fall apart if they, now, decided to come clean. The crooks are in charge of the treasury and they won't give it, and the illusion of power, up easily.
    Indeed.. look at how horribly he made fun of Ted Cruz during the election.. yet he rolls over to show his belly before kissing The Donald's ass so tenderly.
    "If you think you are too small to make a difference, try sleeping with a mosquito"

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    Default Re: King Donald

    “Trump’s authoritarianism is a feature not a bug.”

    Sky Blue

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    Default Re: King Donald

    what happened to that candy coated troll?

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    Default Re: King Donald

    Quote Originally Posted by LeeG View Post
    what happened to that candy coated troll?

    bccphalarope(dot)com

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeeG View Post
    what happened to that candy coated troll?
    I think he is staff at Banned Camp.. ie Permabanned?
    Last edited by Art Haberland; 05-15-2019 at 10:58 PM.
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    Default Re: King Donald

    I think Mr. Cosovoy was appealing to his client, not the judge.

    From his questions, it doesn’t appear Judge Mehta was impressed.

    This appears to be headed for the Supremes.

    Meanwhile -

    Sixty-seven percent of respondents to a Quinnipiac University poll in February said they think Trump should publicly release his tax returns, versus 24 percent who said he should not. Fifty-two percent of respondents said they think he has not released his tax returns “because he has something to hide,” while 19 percent responded that he had not done so because he was being audited.

  27. #27
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    Default Re: King Donald

    Ya gotta work real hard to be that stupid.
    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

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    Default Re: King Donald

    I was talking to one of our local real estate agents this afternoon who just arrived home after spending a couple of weeks in Texas. He said people in businesses would ask where he was from and then say things like "We're terribly sorry our country is in such a mess" and "We apologise for Trump" and "Please don't think that most Americans are like the ones wearing red hats that you see on the news". He also said that he and his wife were given a motel room right next to a bar, and the people leaving the bar thought it was real funny to bang on the door or yell stuff as they passed by. He said he'd finally had enough so when one feller banged on the door and yelled something rude he jumped out of bed and threw open the curtain. Outside the door was a feller about twice his size wearing a particularly large sidearm. The curtain was closed and nothing more was said JayInOz

  29. #29
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    Default Re: King Donald

    Will no Bilge Republican defend Mr. Consovoy's and Trump's position that congressional investigation and oversight is unconstitutional?
    "Trump's authoritarianism is a feature not a bug." -- Sky Blue






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    Default Re: King Donald

    Quote Originally Posted by S.V. Airlie View Post
    Those are the first obvious ones most people will be familiar with. Personally, from what I understand, Edward 11 had the most painful death.
    Or possibly not.

    Andy
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    Default Re: King Donald

    Quote Originally Posted by AndyG View Post
    So, he didn't have a hot poker used as an enema? Certainly was one theory.

  32. #32
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    Default Re: King Donald

    The king doesn’t have to consult Congress.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...=.5b6f9d6c178c

    Democratic members of Congress, while traditionally strong supporters of pressuring Iran, have also raised questions about the intelligence and the administration’s apparent flirtation with combat. In a statement on the Senate floor on Wednesday, Sen. Robert Menendez (N.J.), the ranking Democrat on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, demanded “answers from this administration about Iran . . . and about what intelligence this administration has.” So far, he said, the administration has ignored those demands and refused to provide briefings.

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    Default Re: King Donald

    Wannabe Kings should read history.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

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    Default Re: King Donald

    Quote Originally Posted by LeeG View Post
    The king doesn’t have to consult Congress.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...=.5b6f9d6c178c

    Democratic members of Congress, while traditionally strong supporters of pressuring Iran, have also raised questions about the intelligence and the administration’s apparent flirtation with combat. In a statement on the Senate floor on Wednesday, Sen. Robert Menendez (N.J.), the ranking Democrat on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, demanded “answers from this administration about Iran . . . and about what intelligence this administration has.” So far, he said, the administration has ignored those demands and refused to provide briefings.
    What about Parliament? I think Charles had a fight with it, abolished it and found his head separated from his body for his troubles.

  35. #35
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    Default Re: King Donald

    Being CinC the President can, I presume, order an attack on anyone he likes. I understand that congress may have to confirm it sooner or later, but with a rubber stamp congress I presume he can just order another round of unjustified deaths and expenditure of treasure just to assuage his ego.

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