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Thread: Trump must be elected for a second term

  1. #36
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    Default Re: Trump must be elected for a second term

    Quote Originally Posted by twodot View Post
    That was something you didn't hear from the right during the 8 years of Obama's administration.

    It was, however, what you heard from the right when they ended the Bush/Gore recount.

    Why is that?
    Big time! Everyone seems to forget "Let's make him a one-time president" & "No, we won't hold hearings on his supreme court nominee". I guess it's just Dems who have to play nice.

    @ Chad: I agree we need to heal the country, but that has to come from all sides!
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

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    Default Re: Trump must be elected for a second term

    Quote Originally Posted by cs View Post
    The Democrats have pushed them over the edge...

    Oh, they did not. What silliness. Trump supporters have nobody but themselves to blame...and you want to work on healing the country while your side owns the WH, SC, and Senate.

    Mitch McConnell has no legislative agenda. None. The sole business of the Senate of late is rapidly confirming Trump's far right judicial nominees. After stonewalling Obama for years on his nominees, McConnell is fast-tracking as his sole agenda.

    And you want to heal the country? Look at your side then, and vote against them.
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  3. #38
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    Default Re: Trump must be elected for a second term

    Quote Originally Posted by twodot View Post
    Except that they took Hillary's "deplorables" comment out of context, as you also did.



    Except that they are following a racist, Trump.


    you tried cs... but the bathed in the blood aint changing course on this.

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    Default Re: Trump must be elected for a second term

    Quote Originally Posted by AlanMc View Post
    you tried cs... but the bathed in the blood aint changing course on this.

    Re-read Hillary's deplorables comment, the whole context, and get back to me on how I might change course.

    Review Trump's start in national politics - questioning Obama's birthplace - and get back on how I might change course. Review Trump's many comments on race when he was a developer, and get back to me on how I need to change course.
    bccphalarope(dot)com

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    Default Re: Trump must be elected for a second term

    Quote Originally Posted by AlanMc View Post
    you tried cs... but the bathed in the blood aint changing course on this.
    An example of the lack of dialog and the avid willingness to counter attack with vapid one liners instead of saying something meaningful in response. Have you any thoughts on my comments?
    One of the most enduring qualities of an old wooden boat is the smell it imparts to your clothing.

  6. #41
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    Default Re: Trump must be elected for a second term

    I don't think anybody in this context can make another person go over the edge. At least, I prefer to think we are all responsible for our own actions and reactions. To say "Democrats pushed me over the edge and that's why I voted for Trump" (do I have that more or less right?) sounds more like an excuse than a logical reason for doing something. Or put another way: "I did something I might otherwise not have done because you said things that pissed me off." That doesn't fly for me. Adults should know better.


    I may be reading/understanding what you wrote wrong, so forgive me. But yes I stand by what I said about Democrats pushing people over the edge. If we all remember during the last election that many folks struggled with the "lesser of two evils" and they voted one way or the other based on something that one side or the other said that was distasteful. People made a choice on what they hated the less. I don't think this can be denied, so yes I think her statement, in or out of context, was a factor that started pushing people over the edge. Point of clarification, I think both the left and the right are both guilty of polarizing and pushing the other side even further away.

    Just for the record I held true to my personal values and didn't choose the lesser of two evils, you may not agree with my decision but I really believe that a person should stick to their values and not choose between two evils.

    If people don't recognize by now that Trump is already on the wrong side of integrity, honesty, and decency, they may never do so within the context of a working democracy.


    I think people as a general rule can be pretty stubborn, they see or believe what they want to believe. In their opinion they have been pushed around enough by corrupt politicians and right now all they see is someone that is standing tough for them. Wrong as they are this is what they see and believe. It will take something drastic to change their mind. Something obvious and flagellant. Something that can not be twisted by the media or Facebook to make you believe otherwise.


    That your Trump supporting friends can't accept you in spite of your old ties suggests it might be they who are responsible for a significant amount of ranker themselves.


    There is a lot of truth there, they are as guilty as anyone else for this divide. Some of the comments here also indicate a unwillingness to reach out and mend.

    Just so everyone knows, I'm smack dab in the middle here. I see that both sides are contributing to the divide and nobody seems to want to mend the broken fences. Everything that happens, everything that is said, is twisted, taken out of context and made to fit whichever side you are on. Every piece of news is cut, butchered, and tailored to fit the needs of each side.

    Truth be told I'm saddened by it all. People on both sides that I love and respect at each other's throat when in real life they are not that far apart, but the gap gets wider every day as each and every one take one step back, pulling away from common ground.

    Chad
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  7. #42
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    Default Re: Trump must be elected for a second term

    Oh, they did not. What silliness. Trump supporters have nobody but themselves to blame...and you want to work on healing the country while your side owns the WH, SC, and Senate.

    Mitch McConnell has no legislative agenda. None. The sole business of the Senate of late is rapidly confirming Trump's far right judicial nominees. After stonewalling Obama for years on his nominees, McConnell is fast-tracking as his sole agenda.

    And you want to heal the country? Look at your side then, and vote against them.


    First and foremost you keep saying "your side". I want you to understand that my side is the side that looked at both sides, saw that both were lacking, that neither one could be held up to a standard that I would expect for our leader, a higher standard if you will. So "my side" saw this and "my side" rallied and rallied to make a change, but you and the rest of you were to worried about the "lesser of two evils" that you failed to see what might have been a better choice. "My side" came down to a vote for a better choice, and I stand by that today, Gary Johnson.

    So keep in mind that my side made a stance and the rest of you "lesser of two evils" people choose to snub your nose at us trying to make a change.

    Chad

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    Default Re: Trump must be elected for a second term

    Quote Originally Posted by cs View Post
    Point of clarification, I think both the left and the right are both guilty of polarizing and pushing the other side even further away.

    Yes, they are both guilty.

    But equally?

    Trump ran on outrageousness. He claimed that Hillary would be in prison within days after his inauguration. He encouraged chants of "Lock her up, lock her up!" He was front and center in the racist questioning of Obama's birthplace.

    Equally? No.
    bccphalarope(dot)com

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    Default Re: Trump must be elected for a second term

    Quote Originally Posted by cs View Post
    "My side" came down to a vote for a better choice, and I stand by that today, Gary Johnson...snub your nose at us trying to make a change.

    I am snubbing my nose at you because you didn't vote to try to make a change. You voted for yourself, you voted for you, not for change.
    bccphalarope(dot)com

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    Default Re: Trump must be elected for a second term

    I guess I will struggle to understand your meaning here. I didn't write "Chad Smith" on my ballot. Maybe you are saying that by voting for my values that I voted for myself? By voting for what I believed I was casting a vote for myself?

    I don't mean to sound bitter about it but I see each side calling the other side traitors, raciest, snowflakes, baby killers, and so forth but yet nobody wants to listen to what the other says and here I am caught in the middle believing in what I believe and standing true to those beliefs and yet I get mocked and disrespected because I don't toe the line.

    Chad
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  11. #46
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    Default Re: Trump must be elected for a second term

    But of course I don't expect anyone here to understand. I live in a world where everyone around me is total disagreement with me, nobody here believes in nothing but Trump and they have no respect or time for those that don't believe like they do.

    These are smart people, people that know how to make clear good quick judgement calls in every other aspect of life. People I highly respect and value as friends. People that won't even return my messages because I don't agree with them on Trump, they see me as a traitor and a snowflake.

    These people aren't evil or stupid, but they are blinded by their own loyalty and patriotism. Even though I don't agree with them it does bother me when you guys here lump all of them into that racist ignorant basket. And you do, I see it on every political thread, on every FB post.

    Chad
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    Default Re: Trump must be elected for a second term

    i'm cool with your gary johnson vote cs. i don't consider ANY vote "throwing away your vote". the ole "lesser of 2 evils" must have been created by the lesser of 2 evil people to get the votes

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    Default Re: Trump must be elected for a second term

    well, its complicated

    would you agree with me that trump in no small way engages in race baiting for political gain, and that many of his policies and their implementation are racist in nature?

    if you say yes to the above, then how is being a trump voter not in some way enabling racism?
    Quote Originally Posted by cs View Post
    These people aren't evil or stupid, but they are blinded by their own loyalty and patriotism. Even though I don't agree with them it does bother me when you guys here lump all of them into that racist ignorant basket. And you do, I see it on every political thread, on every FB post.

    Chad
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

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    Default Re: Trump must be elected for a second term

    You may see it as race baiting and I may see it as race baiting and yes he does engage in it.

    What the other side sees is "Why should I be ashamed of being white? If you can have a black pride month, why can't I have a White Pride month?"

    They don't see it as race baiting, they only see the other side getting special privileges that they don't get. I don't agree, but that is what they see.

    Chad
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    Default Re: Trump must be elected for a second term

    White people get a whole lot of special privileges. Just saying.
    Nosce te ipsum

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    Default Re: Trump must be elected for a second term

    Quote Originally Posted by cs View Post
    You may see it as race baiting and I may see it as race baiting and yes he does engage in it.

    What the other side sees is "Why should I be ashamed of being white? If you can have a black pride month, why can't I have a White Pride month?"

    They don't see it as race baiting, they only see the other side getting special privileges that they don't get. I don't agree, but that is what they see.

    Chad
    its quite possible to be benignly racist and not be aware of it
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

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    Default Re: Trump must be elected for a second term

    I don't disagree.

    One time I tried to explain how I say white privilege by telling a story about myself as a young white teen driving recklessly and dangerously without proper registration and bloodshot eyes, how the cop just let me go with a warning and I asked the question what would have happened if I had been black or Hispanic?

    The response was that my example and question was not only false but insulting to the thousands of police officers that do their duty without regards to race.

    Chad
    There are three ways to do things: The right way, the wrong way and my way.

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  18. #53
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    Default Re: Trump must be elected for a second term

    Quote Originally Posted by cs View Post
    I think that what quite a few forget is that the Trump base is actually made up of good intelligent people. The Democratic Party, Hillary specifically, did an excellent job of polarizing the country and the people. Just the simple act of calling them "Deplorables was enough to push them over to Trump. Keep in mind that Joe on the street has an extreme distrust of politicians and they love to see an outsider win. These people, as whole, are not stupid, they are quite intelligent, they are not racist, they are not traitors. What they are is loyal, they have found the outsider, the underdog if you will, that is bucking the establishment, all they see is that he is shaking it up, they see him as "one of them". The Democrats have pushed them over the edge and now they are firmly in the Trump camp and like most of the faithful you find anywhere they get blinded by the hype and only see what they want to see.

    In my mind what will bring everyone back to center is if Trump implodes drastically and majestically, so obvious and blatant that it blows through the fog of super patriot and loyalty, where the common man sees him for what he truly is. It needs to be a clear breach of ethics, policy, or something really drastic. This is the point where I hope our system does what it is designed for and catches him before he does something really damaging. When/if he implodes in this drastic fashion then and maybe only then will his followers see him for what he is.

    I want to say again, the Trump followers are not stupid, they are quite intelligent, they are not racist, they are not traitors.

    I want to direct my energy to healing and not hating. Loving my neighbor not calling him names. I have friends on both sides, friends I love and respect, friends that are leaders of the community, leaders of their field, these friends are not stupid, but they are patriotic and yes these friends are just as polarized as the rest. I have lost their respect in some cases because I don't support Trump and my heart is hurt because of this.

    Please let's work on healing this country and it starts by mending the bonds and bridging the gaps between left and right.

    Chad
    First, Hillary is a horrible hand at electoral politics.

    Her husband was not.

    The 'deplorable' remark is ample evidence of that fact.

    Second, public faith in the institutions of our community, our bond, our Constitution is what made America great in the first place.

    One of the two parties is aggressively destroying that faith both at home and abroad.

    They have elected a braying jackass to accomplish this goal.

    Third, these intelligent, colorblind patriots need to move past the butt-hurt, grab their Democratic Representatives by the shorties, and tell them in no uncertain terms that while they're like little, lost children, the Constitution is falling into the hands of gangsters, and it is time somebody actually DID something about it instead of playing grab-ass and campaigning for office.

    Fourth, if they don't have Democratic Representatives/Senators, then go out of your way to elect some.



    You say this country is divided, and you're right. To my mind we are dangerously so.

    I make no exaggeration when I say that the fate of the Republic will be decided next November, when 37% of the electorate vote for that person, and the other 63% decide whether we will have the rule of law, or a tyranny of the minority.




    In this you are completely correct, IMO:
    In my mind what will bring everyone back to center is if Trump implodes drastically and majestically, so obvious and blatant that it blows through the fog of super patriot and loyalty, where the common man sees him for what he truly is. It needs to be a clear breach of ethics, policy, or something really drastic. This is the point where I hope our system does what it is designed for and catches him before he does something really damaging. When/if he implodes in this drastic fashion then and maybe only then will his followers see him for what he is.
    Trump and Trumpism must lose, and if they are not completely crushed at the polls, there will be blood, IMO.

    I would urge everyone to forget about policy and guns and abortion and focus on the fact that the 'Republican' Party is an existential threat to the Republic.

    Let's accept that we're all Americans, and that first we need to get rid of these usurpers, and then we can work together to solve our problems.

    All the best from Austin, TX,

    John
    Rattling the teacups.

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    Default Re: Trump must be elected for a second term

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    its quite possible to be benignly racist and not be aware of it
    And if you don't believe it, you should watch 'Bustin' Loose'.

    That flick struck me as odd, somehow, until I realized that the same movie could have been made with Warren Beatty and Sigourney Weaver, and it would have been REALLY weird.
    Rattling the teacups.

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    Default Re: Trump must be elected for a second term

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Lesser View Post
    A more complex analysis by Thomas Edsell
    Thanks for that.

    And what if Trump is a 'transformative' president who will lead us from democracy to an authoritarian form of government?

  21. #56
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    Default Re: Trump must be elected for a second term

    Quote Originally Posted by cs View Post
    I don't disagree.

    One time I tried to explain how I say white privilege by telling a story about myself as a young white teen driving recklessly and dangerously without proper registration and bloodshot eyes, how the cop just let me go with a warning and I asked the question what would have happened if I had been black or Hispanic?

    The response was that my example and question was not only false but insulting to the thousands of police officers that do their duty without regards to race.

    Chad
    So, they changed the subject rather than answer the question. Pretty good sign you made them uncomfortable.

    You know what white privilege is? It's being treated the way everyone should be treated. Maybe if we explain it that way, people won't feel threatened by the possible loss of privilege.

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    Default Re: Trump must be elected for a second term

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    You cannot possibly be that much of a fool.
    Don't underestimate him.

    Jeff C

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    Default Re: Trump must be elected for a second term

    Quote Originally Posted by johnw View Post
    Thanks for that.

    And what if Trump is a 'transformative' president who will lead us from democracy to an authoritarian form of government?
    You can't say he and his party are not trying…….

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    Default Re: Trump must be elected for a second term

    To refuse to choose between the lesser of two evils is to be responsible for the greater evil prevailing.

    As for the good Germans, P on them. Citizenship involves duties. That you are otherwise inoffensive just makes you an ignorant tool.
    He's a Mexican. -- Donald Trump.
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    Crying white mothers are ratings gold. -- National Rifle Association

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    Default Re: Trump must be elected for a second term

    Quote Originally Posted by cs View Post
    But of course I don't expect anyone here to understand. I live in a world where everyone around me is total disagreement with me, nobody here believes in nothing but Trump and they have no respect or time for those that don't believe like they do.

    These are smart people, people that know how to make clear good quick judgement calls in every other aspect of life. People I highly respect and value as friends. People that won't even return my messages because I don't agree with them on Trump, they see me as a traitor and a snowflake.

    These people aren't evil or stupid, but they are blinded by their own loyalty and patriotism. Even though I don't agree with them it does bother me when you guys here lump all of them into that racist ignorant basket. And you do, I see it on every political thread, on every FB post.

    Chad
    I get the issue Chad. I have the "advantage" of personally knowing Trump is a liar - learned long before he ever ran for president. However, you say these are good people (& I believe you) - but would they stand for someone lying to them face-to-face? What if one of their friends said "I cheat at cards" - would they still play poker with him?

    Putting aside all of the politics, why won't they stand for personal integrity in government, as I'm sure they do in their own lives? "They all do it" is not an answer - it's a cop-out.

    More than anything else, I'm most pissed off about people accepting lies as no big deal. Lies are lies and are not OK.

    Before anyone says it - no, I'm not talking about "Does this dress make me look fat?" lies.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

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    Default Re: Trump must be elected for a second term

    You are in a difficult situation Chad and I feel for you, but they are not 'good people'. Being wilfully ignorant does not excuse them from responsibility.

    I wouldn't trust them for a moment.

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    Default Re: Trump must be elected for a second term

    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post
    I get the issue Chad. I have the "advantage" of personally knowing Trump is a liar - learned long before he ever ran for president. However, you say these are good people (& I believe you) - but would they stand for someone lying to them face-to-face? What if one of their friends said "I cheat at cards" - would they still play poker with him?

    Putting aside all of the politics, why won't they stand for personal integrity in government, as I'm sure they do in their own lives? "They all do it" is not an answer - it's a cop-out.

    More than anything else, I'm most pissed off about people accepting lies as no big deal. Lies are lies and are not OK.

    Before anyone says it - no, I'm not talking about "Does this dress make me look fat?" lies.
    You look smashing in that dress.

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    Default Re: Trump must be elected for a second term

    Quote Originally Posted by johnw View Post
    You look smashing in that dress.
    Gosh - thanks! Should I shave my legs?
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

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    Default Re: Trump must be elected for a second term

    My first impression of Trump was landing at LaGuardia in the 1980s and seeing a jet on the tarmac with TRUMP along its side.

    I wondered what kind of person could be so vain as to seek not only a jet, but put their name on it for all to see.

    We now know that at the time he wasn't paying any taxes, inherited his money, and was running up hundreds of thousands of dollars in losses due to bad business deals.

    Later I saw the same thing at the outdoor ice rink at Central Park, those countless family photos of ice skating, with TRUMP in the background along the wall of the rink.

    I think it stunning that I can drive a few miles from here and find run-down mobile homes where people live who will vote for Trump, again, to run this country with TRUMP in big letters.
    bccphalarope(dot)com

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    Default Re: Trump must be elected for a second term

    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post
    Gosh - thanks! Should I shave my legs?
    No, just a permanent wave to accentuate the natural curl.

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    Default Re: Trump must be elected for a second term

    Quote Originally Posted by johnw View Post
    No, just a permanent wave to accentuate the natural curl.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

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    Default Re: Trump must be elected for a second term

    Quote Originally Posted by twodot View Post
    My first impression of Trump was landing at LaGuardia in the 1980s and seeing a jet on the tarmac with TRUMP along its side.

    I wondered what kind of person could be so vain as to seek not only a jet, but put their name on it for all to see.

    We now know that at the time he wasn't paying any taxes, inherited his money, and was running up hundreds of thousands of dollars in losses due to bad business deals.

    Later I saw the same thing at the outdoor ice rink at Central Park, those countless family photos of ice skating, with TRUMP in the background along the wall of the rink.

    I think it stunning that I can drive a few miles from here and find run-down mobile homes where people live who will vote for Trump, again, to run this country with TRUMP in big letters.

    Hundreds of millions in losses. Non payment of debts everywhere you look. Scams like Trump university and others. Implicated in two felonies. Racist and bigoted statements and actions going back years and years.

    The guy's a scumbag. He's always been a scumbag.

    Jeff C

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    Default Re: Trump must be elected for a second term

    Quote Originally Posted by cs View Post
    These people aren't evil or stupid, but they are blinded by their own loyalty and patriotism.
    The most generous i would be is that they are a people whose way of life is changing because of forces they cannot see nor understand.
    They blame the 'system' for it. Anyone who defends that 'system' is a traitor. They want their man on the inside to manage that 'system' for them. If he can't its because the secret elite powers are at work to undermine him.

    The podcast in the OP, is saying that they need to see their man go all the way through that system and out the other side before they will recognise that there is no conspiracy of elite.
    But if he gets ousted, by whatever means, this will be all the proof they need that the system is actively working against them - so tear it down.

    So for the sake of democracy in the USA, Trump must see out a second term.

    The problems facing working people throughout the western world are not probelms related to the colour of your skin or immigration, or even the Chinese.
    Its the structure that moves wealth away from workers and into the hands of the wealthy. Owning stuff is rewarded above working. Capital has primacy over labour. It is often incentivised (subsidies for big business), it is taxed less and it is easier to move across borders.

    Trump has given more to capitalists than any other leader has anywhere and at anytime. aka $1.5 Trillion in one hit!.
    Only living with the guy, securely, for 8 years will show them the duplicity in the Republican message.

    Thats not my perspective.
    I say get rid of the man. But i live in a country with strict gun laws.
    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

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    Default Re: Trump must be elected for a second term

    Quote Originally Posted by DMillet View Post
    Donald won't win in 2020. The Russians will make damn sure of it. Their success will be predicated on just how close they can manage the loss. Their goal was never to make Trump the leader of the free world. It was to sow as much discord as possible. That he won was merely proof that their tactics were even more effective than they had hoped. Next time around, if they're successful, he'll lose by just enough for him to claim that coup and call for a popular uprising. Would his base actually take up arms? That's a question I suspect we'll see answered in 2020.
    I've a friend who lives in small town North Carolina, it was the only place near his family that he could afford to purchase. He tells me that should Trump not get to serve out his full two terms for any reason at all, health, impeachment, resignation or not being elected, will cause serious violence from quite a proportion of the local inhabitants. He and his wife are keeping their liberal opinions strictly to themselves.
    I suspect that is a pretty realistic view of things.

    John Welsford
    An expert is but a beginner with experience.

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    Default Re: Trump must be elected for a second term

    Quote Originally Posted by john welsford View Post
    I've a friend who lives in small town North Carolina, it was the only place near his family that he could afford to purchase. He tells me that should Trump not get to serve out his full two terms for any reason at all, health, impeachment, resignation or not being elected, will cause serious violence from quite a proportion of the local inhabitants. He and his wife are keeping their liberal opinions strictly to themselves.
    I suspect that is a pretty realistic view of things.

    John Welsford
    That's too bad.

    This moment was pre-ordained in 1877 when the US Government, after the loss of ~700,000 souls in the name of Union, capitulated to the slave-owning South, unleashing this hideous contortion of 'freedom', and assuring that sedition was acceptable.








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