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Thread: Cold Molded Hull Cracks?

  1. #36
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    Default Re: Cold Molded Hull Cracks?

    Quote Originally Posted by DeniseO30 View Post
    I'd pull the deck, off! Or at least the lift it so you can fix the hull proper.

    Wrapping glass from deck to hull, that still needs a rub rail, will completely seal in any underside moisture that gets in the boat. which is the long term result when things are glassed on one side and not the othebr /> If you use silica mixed in epoxy it's like trying to grind stone, suggest wood flour or something softer to mix in your epoxy, for fairing,
    I appreciate your comment, but I'm not sure I completely understand what you suggest. Are you saying I should take the deck off and glass just the hull inside and out? In that case, would you suggest glassing over the sheer clamp or removing it?

    The hull is now coated inside and out with epoxy - perhaps imperfectly in some places - and glassed below the waterline (so I'm told). The deck has also been glassed. My current plan for this summer is to glass the top 8" or so of the exterior hull and over the deck join, but I could leave the join alone and just glass up to the join and then glass (or maybe just epoxy) the edge of the plywood deck. That would protect the hull and the edge of the deck, but leave the goop-filled join alone - probably I would reef out all that I can and then re-goop before reinstalling the rubrail. Would that be better?

  2. #37
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    Default Re: Cold Molded Hull Cracks?

    The deck to hull is rarely a permanent rigid join on any boat, there must be a reason. if the hull edges are taking in water it will wick down between the plies of deck and hull, . So sealing the top edge really needs to be done. I just don't think glassing over the edge is a great idea although easy enough to do.
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  3. #38
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    Default Re: Cold Molded Hull Cracks?

    Take the deck off? What?
    Just shovel the goo out with a skilsaw kerf a quarter inch at a time. Use an old blade . Fill with epoxy...it's an epoxy boat !
    I'd definitely glass the edge.
    I would not necessarily put a rubrail back on . Folks rarely abuse 15 foot sailing yachts.

  4. #39
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    Default Re: Cold Molded Hull Cracks?

    Quote Originally Posted by DeniseO30 View Post
    The deck to hull is rarely a permanent rigid join on any boat, there must be a reason. if the hull edges are taking in water it will wick down between the plies of deck and hull, . So sealing the top edge really needs to be done. I just don't think glassing over the edge is a great idea although easy enough to do.
    I think I understand your point, and it's a good one. The boat has made it this far (10+ years) with the hull/deck join as shown, although the last 3 or 4 had the deck glassed over the edge of the rail. My concern has been cracks showing up between veneers on the hull exterior that would allow water to damage the hull - or as indicators of damage to the hull - and how to address that problem; the hull/deck join doesn't figure into that, per se. Now that it's out in the open it needs to get put back together, and glassing over the join doesn't need to be the way that happens.

    But it does need to get put back together. Since the deck is solid on the sheer clamp and deck beams I'd prefer not to take that all apart if there's a legitimate way to seal the join and reinstall the rail. I would appreciate any suggestions - as I understand it it's not a structural issue but it needs to be reliably watertight before the rail goes on. Does that sound correct?

  5. #40
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    Default Re: Cold Molded Hull Cracks?

    Quote Originally Posted by wizbang 13 View Post
    Take the deck off? What?
    Just shovel the goo out with a skilsaw kerf a quarter inch at a time. Use an old blade . Fill with epoxy...it's an epoxy boat !
    I'd definitely glass the edge.
    I would not necessarily put a rubrail back on . Folks rarely abuse 15 foot sailing yachts.
    Thanks for the suggestion. Just to be sure I understand, you mean run the saw along the groove to cut the goop out? Your suggestion of a course sanding disk worked great, by the way - it even worked reasonably well on the still-soft goop.

    Re: the rail - I have actually done minor damage to the boat by running into a protruding bolt at the dock - it seems like the rubrail is never in the right place to actually rub. I'm thinking maybe a beach roller hung over the side might be the best rubrail. A toerail, on the other hand, would be useful in preventing my daughters the little Pandelumes from putting things on the side deck where they roll straight into the drink.

  6. #41
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    Default Re: Cold Molded Hull Cracks?

    Yes . It's only a bit tricky to use a skilsaw as a router. A big worm saw is even best, as the they have a lotta torque and the blade turns slower. Put those googles on. It's not exactly pleasant.Hang on, do not let the goo "bite " the saw blade.
    Ive found rubrails on small boats to be a giant pita. Yes, they get hung up on stuff. Docks, other boats rubrails. Then a hairline crack happens , unbeknownst to anyone, and down de road..... trouble. Coupl o pool noodles may serve you better.
    bruce
    Last edited by wizbang 13; 06-11-2019 at 02:41 PM.

  7. #42
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    Certainly wouldn't be removing the deck! Wow! Do what Wiz said. Don't go too deep. Doesn't matter if there's some goop left back in there. Try not to be cutting any vertical fastenings. Fill with thickened epoxy. If use a gluing filler for strength. Smooth it well while soft. Finish up with a fairing filler if you need to. Then glass.

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  8. #43
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    You guys do get shook up easy! 🤣 I'm guessing, the more he digs under there the more rot, he's going to find! (Hope not)

    if y'all read what I said,
    "I'd pull the deck, off! Or at LEAST LIFT it, so you can fix the hull proper."
    Last edited by DeniseO30; 06-11-2019 at 06:00 PM.
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  9. #44
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    Default Re: Cold Molded Hull Cracks?

    Quote Originally Posted by DeniseO30 View Post
    You guys do get shook up easy! 藍 I'm guessing, the more he digs under there the more rot, he's going to find! (Hope not)

    if y'all read what I said,
    "I'd pull the deck, off! Or at LEAST LIFT it, so you can fix the hull proper."
    I hope not too! So far I haven't found anything that I'd call rotten - knock on wood that it stays that way. There are areas of sun fading, areas of water darkening, areas of seemingly illogical construction, and a few seemingly weak areas that have cracked a bit when pulling the rail. All in all I can't complain - nothing soft, nothing flaking apart, nothing that seems super dodgy. But this is an area of the boat that as far as I know hasn't been examined since it was built, so who knows?

    Whatever I find, I'll post pictures. In fact, here are two now: The first is the area of the exterior hull cracks shown in posts #11 (upside-down) and #16 after the first bit of paint removal. The second is a shot showing some camouflaged dings in the hull that were filled with paint.

    20190610_202918.jpg

    20190610_202924(0).jpg

    This leads me to a question: how aggressive do I need to be in removing the paint prior to epoxy and glass? So far I've been trying to remove all the paint without sanding through the existing epoxy, but it's a bit tricky to tell when you've got everything - the epoxy takes on a matte finish very similar to white paint residue. Should I err on the side of sanding all the way to wood or will the new epoxy stick to a little polyurethane paint residue without problems? In the case of the paint filled dings, should I break out the tiny dremel grinder and dig the paint out?
    Last edited by pandelume; 06-11-2019 at 07:01 PM. Reason: Corrected typo

  10. #45
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    Default Re: Cold Molded Hull Cracks?

    I recon your best bet is to sand aggressively. Expose the wood to air The thin lams of cedar will dry fast opened. .Water locked behind epoxy does no good. Go to town with 60 grit on the RO.
    It's all for the better when you resume epoxying.

  11. #46
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    Default Re: Cold Molded Hull Cracks?

    Denise , There has been no rot yet, I doubt there is any. The boat is practically new. I think she was just built by a person who did not quite trust/embrace/understand epoxy.
    They walk among us.

  12. #47
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    No rot is a good thing! If you do try wraping glass over the edge, it doesn't lay well on corners like the deck edge, and if you round off the deck to hull, and don't have a rub rail of some sort the glass epoxy will quickly get beat up.

    Rub rail, there are alternatives that are not made of wood and have insertable wear strips,

    Sent from my LG-M430 using Tapatalk
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  13. #48
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    Default Re: Cold Molded Hull Cracks?

    I'm not sure about the rubrail yet - I think I'll put something on, but I'm not sure what. I'm leaning more and more towards not reinstalling the old rail, but I haven't made up my mind on any of it yet. DeniseO30 (and anyone else), if you have any particular product you'd recommend I'd be happy to look at it.

  14. #49
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    Wood.

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  15. #50
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    Default Re: Cold Molded Hull Cracks?

    Some progress removing the caulk over the weekend. I was frankly too intimidated to try using a skillsaw along the join, although I may still need to open up the joint in a few places to get the caulking out. I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. I started by cutting along both sides of the caulking bead with a box knife and pulling the bulk of the material out, aided when necessary by a 1/2" chisel:

    20190616_144317(0).jpg

    I then turned to my secret weapon: a dremel with a .75" wire brush. This worked beautifully, if slowly, to remove the residue left by the box knife and chisel. Seen here inexplicably rotated 90 degrees.

    20190616_145052.jpg

    A shot of a the final product here, pretty much clean and ready for the next step.

    20190616_145057.jpg

    I think I'm going to go with thickened epoxy crammed into the join with a putty knife - my reasoning is that if I have to take the deck apart one day I'll have to remove any new caulking anyway, so why not epoxy? I actually think it may be easier to grind off epoxy than caulk. I have thickening mixes from duckworks - one for fairing and one for filleting, and I have quite a bit of pine sawdust I can use. Color matching isn't important since I'm going to paint when I'm all done. For that matter, I can easily make cedar sawdust if that would somehow be better.

    As I go aft, the hull-deck join gets tighter and the caulking bead thinner -maybe to 1/16" or so. Can I safely epoxy/glass over this, or do I need to cut all the caulking out? If so, how deep - maybe 1/4" or so?

  16. #51
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    Default Re: Cold Molded Hull Cracks?

    yea yea , yer on the right track.
    I might "paint "it with un thickened resin first, just to see it go in.
    Use a 3 inch putty knife and plenty of wrist powered hydraulic action.
    Cedar will be better than pine. (sap )
    o gawd I can just see that crap flyin around. Imagine what it's doin to the electric motor.

  17. #52
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    Default Re: Cold Molded Hull Cracks?

    Quote Originally Posted by wizbang 13 View Post
    yea yea , yer on the right track.
    I might "paint "it with un thickened resin first, just to see it go in.
    Use a 3 inch putty knife and plenty of wrist powered hydraulic action.
    Cedar will be better than pine. (sap )
    o gawd I can just see that crap flyin around. Imagine what it's doin to the electric motor.
    Yes, I should have a respirator for the dremel. Fortunately it mostly throws the debris into my face, so the motor stays pretty clean

    As always, RTFM:

    20190610_200629.jpg

    20190610_200645.jpg

  18. #53
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    Doing great. Keep going.

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