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Thread: Light Chebacco

  1. #71
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    Default Re: Light Chebacco

    You'll probably have to put it away on the diagonal. You'll gain as much as a foot of length to work with.
    -Dave

  2. #72
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    Default Re: Light Chebacco

    Quote Originally Posted by Falcon1 View Post
    Looking forward to following your build. I've been thinking about Chebacco a bit recently after reading Mike O'Brien's review in the 2010 Small Boats.

    If it's not too late you could try your hand at scarfing your plywood joints. It's not as hard as it seems. I've never done a butt joint on my boats, but it would seem that using differing thicknesses of ply might not be so good.

    Good luck, and keep the photos coming!

    Mike
    Chris, your original post mentioned Wayward Lass. I was re-reading this thread and noticed the above reference to the Small Boats article on Chebaccos. The opening picture in the article is Wayward Lass with my father at the helm, taken just south of Cortes Island (near Desolation Sound) on our first real cruise. I was taking pictures from our tender (a tiny inflatable) as Dad sailed by me. The inflatable was somewhere between a pool toy and a real boat, but it held up very well and fitted in one of the stern lockers with room left over. I still have it, but generally tow a hard dinghy now.

    Cheers,

    Jamie

  3. #73
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    Default Re: Light Chebacco

    Quote Originally Posted by Woxbox View Post
    You'll probably have to put it away on the diagonal. You'll gain as much as a foot of length to work with.
    Hmmm... That stern's awfully wide to give me much wiggle room there, Woxbox. Plus, I'd have to either block the door or relocate the hot water heater!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jamie Orr View Post
    Chris, your original post mentioned Wayward Lass. I was re-reading this thread and noticed the above reference to the Small Boats article on Chebaccos. The opening picture in the article is Wayward Lass with my father at the helm, taken just south of Cortes Island (near Desolation Sound) on our first real cruise. I was taking pictures from our tender (a tiny inflatable) as Dad sailed by me. The inflatable was somewhere between a pool toy and a real boat, but it held up very well and fitted in one of the stern lockers with room left over. I still have it, but generally tow a hard dinghy now.
    This is the picture that you use as your avatar, yes? I love that one! Jamie, I've seen many of your adventures documented here and Duckworks and chebacco.com - which is your favorite memory? Could you even pick just one trip?

    I'm planning to tow that SOF pram that's always threatening to fall from the ceiling in the garage. I'll probably have to re-skin it by the time this project is done!
    Last edited by csmead; 12-16-2019 at 09:21 AM.

  4. #74
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    Default Re: Light Chebacco

    Speaking of trailers, I need to know the location of the boat's center of gravity. Is it this symbol? I can't figure out what else it could mean.
    Keel and filleting
    Chris Smead

  5. #75
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    Default Re: Light Chebacco

    I use a hinged tongue to fit a 17' dory in an 18' garage. The winch and bow stop just fit inside the doors. If you have no room to spare, you might think of installing some kind of keel stop. A block and tackle might be arranged to pull the boat forward. I'm sure you can find solutions.

  6. #76
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    Default Re: Light Chebacco

    Quote Originally Posted by Jamie Orr View Post
    Chris, your original post mentioned Wayward Lass. I was re-reading this thread and noticed the above reference to the Small Boats article on Chebaccos. The opening picture in the article is Wayward Lass with my father at the helm, taken just south of Cortes Island (near Desolation Sound) on our first real cruise. I was taking pictures from our tender (a tiny inflatable) as Dad sailed by me. The inflatable was somewhere between a pool toy and a real boat, but it held up very well and fitted in one of the stern lockers with room left over. I still have it, but generally tow a hard dinghy now.

    Cheers,

    Jamie
    Jamie, I know that after we capsized and swamped your Chebacco at the Port Townsend show ( something that was very hard to do) it looked like it would be pretty easy to turn few open compartments into hatch accessible spaces that would also provide buoyancy. Did you ever give that a try?
    Ben Fuller
    Ran Tan, Liten Kuhling, Tipsy, Tippy, Josef W., Merry Mouth, Imp, Macavity, Look Far, Flash and a quiver of other 'yaks.
    "Bound fast is boatless man."

  7. #77
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    Default Re: Light Chebacco

    Hi Chris, I can't say for sure but you're probably right about the centre of gravity. When getting ready to put Wayward Lass on a trailer, we built up supports a couple of feet either side of the centre. Having them close in meant I could lift up one end at a time so one support could be built up some more on each lift. From all that I estimated the point of balance was about one foot behind the main bulkhead.

    Jamie

  8. #78
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    Default Re: Light Chebacco

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Fuller View Post
    Jamie, I know that after we capsized and swamped your Chebacco at the Port Townsend show ( something that was very hard to do) it looked like it would be pretty easy to turn few open compartments into hatch accessible spaces that would also provide buoyancy. Did you ever give that a try?
    Ben, I think I answered this before, but in any case the answer is no. I decided that the design is stable enough for me as she is - more flotation might be comforting, but to make her fully self-recoverable from a capsize would require too much modification. My feelings only...

    Cheers.

  9. #79
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    Default Re: Light Chebacco

    If I was building a Chebacco from scratch I'd definitely work in a bit of bulkhead locker flotation and storage. The compartments would offer the perfect mix of organization and floaty-ness when all goes awry.
    Quote Originally Posted by James McMullen View Post
    Yeadon is right, of course.

  10. #80
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    Default Re: Light Chebacco

    Quote Originally Posted by johngsandusky View Post
    I'm sure you can find solutions.
    Well I'm thankful for the encouragement! I'll keep thinking.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jamie Orr View Post
    From all that I estimated the point of balance was about one foot behind the main bulkhead.
    That just happens to be where the mark is, Jamie! Thanks.
    Quote Originally Posted by Yeadon View Post
    If I was building a Chebacco from scratch I'd definitely work in a bit of bulkhead locker flotation and storage. The compartments would offer the perfect mix of organization and floaty-ness when all goes awry.
    Hmmm... This resonates with me too. The bow, however, might have to do with some fenders, since I don't see how to seal any of that.
    Chris Smead

  11. #81
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    Default Re: Light Chebacco

    Quote Originally Posted by csmead View Post

    Hmmm... This resonates with me too. The bow, however, might have to do with some fenders, since I don't see how to seal any of that.
    As I recall from the capsize and swamp test we did with Jamie's boat that there was ample space to turn the cockpit seats whose compartmentation extended into the cabin ( don't remember how) into floatation. There seemed to be a locker, bin, or something up in the bow that looked like it could be again turned into a water tight locker. I recall when we were swamped and up right sitting or hunkering in the cabin and bucketing water onto the cockpit sole were it could run out. I think the guys with the big pump dropped suction into the cabin.
    Ben Fuller
    Ran Tan, Liten Kuhling, Tipsy, Tippy, Josef W., Merry Mouth, Imp, Macavity, Look Far, Flash and a quiver of other 'yaks.
    "Bound fast is boatless man."

  12. #82
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    Default Re: Light Chebacco

    Nice boat! Sorry I have not been able to follow the thread more closely so this may have been mentioned. Might consider bird mouth mast and spars for weight savings.

  13. #83
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    Default Re: Light Chebacco

    "CB" is center of buoyancy of the immersed portion of the hull, at a certain displacement.

    Yeadon: If I was building a Chebacco from scratch I'd definitely work in a bit of bulkhead locker flotation and storage. The compartments would offer the perfect mix of organization and floaty-ness when all goes awry.

    csmead: Hmmm... This resonates with me too. The bow, however, might have to do with some fenders, since I don't see how to seal any of that.
    Another option: Rigid stryofoam insulation, available in hardware stores, can be cut to fit, with individual pieces glued together (thickened epoxy) to more or less completely fill the bow or any other space. Hide the exposed face with a veneer, or just paint.
    Score pieces with a razor knife, then break apart - do not use a saw.

    Dave

  14. #84
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    Default Re: Light Chebacco

    Quote Originally Posted by DGentry View Post
    "CB" is center of buoyancy of the immersed portion of the hull, at a certain displacement.
    Oh yeah. Why didn't I think of that?
    Quote Originally Posted by DGentry View Post
    Another option: Rigid stryofoam insulation, available in hardware stores, can be cut to fit, with individual pieces glued together (thickened epoxy) to more or less completely fill the bow or any other space.
    I think I'll do this in the bow. That's what I did with your Pram too. The aft compartments of Chebacco can be sealed and used for storage, but the bow, as Jamie says, seems tricky to compartmentalize because of the mast-slot-walk-up system.

  15. #85
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    Default Re: Light Chebacco

    I put this job off as long as I could, but had to start it eventually. I rough-cut the forward "bilge panels" and attached them to the stem and some cleats along the topsides edge. By delaying this job, I enjoyed having easy access to the keel area.
    Test fit bilge panels
    Test fit bilge panels
    Test fit bilge panels
    I'm trying to use some cinch straps at the aft corner to twist them into place. In these pictures, they have a LOT of tension. I thought the panels would've broken by this point, honestly. I decided to just leave them for a few days to see if the plywood "adjusts" to the twist. I'll pull them off later and give them another trim and try again. Another builder remarked that the straight factory edge lines up with the topsides panel when the correct twist is induced. It seems true enough. More recent builds of Chebacco used laminated 1/4" ply to mitigate this challenge, but the original builders did it with 1/2". Somehow.

  16. #86
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    Default Re: Light Chebacco

    Hi Chris, If you can use your half inch ply elsewhere, I suggest laminating with quarter inch. I did that after following Bill Sampson's experience. I did one side off the hull, the other one I laid up in place, no big advantage either way but doing it in place might suit your work space better. Whichever route you take, you will notice that the ply will not sit down on the #1 bulkhead. Even laminating the bilge panel, I found that there was a space of maybe 3/8". I cut a filler piece to shape and epoxied it in after the panel was fixed in place, and I believe Bill did the same, although I haven't checked the Chebacco News archives. Those archives are a great resource, I also kept in touch with other builders as I did mine.

    You might try screwing a block of wood to the bulkhead, then pull in the top and bottom of the panel and screw them down. Have to be careful to keep it all fair at the same time. FWIW, I would recommend laminating to anyone who hasn't already committed to the other way. I also laminated the cabin top and would do so again.

    Jamie

  17. #87
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    Default Re: Light Chebacco

    Quote Originally Posted by Jamie Orr View Post
    Hi Chris, If you can use your half inch ply elsewhere, I suggest laminating with quarter inch. I did that after following Bill Sampson's experience. I did one side off the hull, the other one I laid up in place, no big advantage either way but doing it in place might suit your work space better. Whichever route you take, you will notice that the ply will not sit down on the #1 bulkhead. Even laminating the bilge panel, I found that there was a space of maybe 3/8". I cut a filler piece to shape and epoxied it in after the panel was fixed in place, and I believe Bill did the same, although I haven't checked the Chebacco News archives. Those archives are a great resource, I also kept in touch with other builders as I did mine.
    I might be in too deep for that! The panels are screwed in place and ready to be epoxied. Man is my left shoulder sore from pushing those things into place! I'm definitely going to laminate the cabin top like you suggest! I will be wrapping presents and drinking egg nog with family over the next few days, but the 26th is supposed to be warmer and that might be the day to make the joint. My plan is to fill the gaps with thickened epoxy (after priming with neat, of course), then lay 4" tape on the outside anywhere there isn't a screw in the way. I'll let that cure, take out the screws, then tape the remainder of the outside and also the inside of the hull. Does that sound reasonable? After this comes the filling and fairing and painting of the entire hull bottom.

    Oh, and I sure am glad you told me about frame #1! I'dve been killing myself to make that touch!
    Chris Smead

  18. #88
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    Default Re: Light Chebacco

    Quote Originally Posted by csmead View Post
    I might be in too deep for that! The panels are screwed in place and ready to be epoxied. Man is my left shoulder sore from pushing those things into place! I'm definitely going to laminate the cabin top like you suggest! I will be wrapping presents and drinking egg nog with family over the next few days, but the 26th is supposed to be warmer and that might be the day to make the joint. My plan is to fill the gaps with thickened epoxy (after priming with neat, of course), then lay 4" tape on the outside anywhere there isn't a screw in the way. I'll let that cure, take out the screws, then tape the remainder of the outside and also the inside of the hull. Does that sound reasonable? After this comes the filling and fairing and painting of the entire hull bottom.

    Oh, and I sure am glad you told me about frame #1! I'dve been killing myself to make that touch!
    Getting half inch to conform to those curves is a major accomplishment. Here's to you!

    I guess you mean you are making Payson scarfs, with tape and epoxy only, on the panels? I can't really comment on those as I used butt blocks, but Payson made his joints with polyester resin so using epoxy they should be even stronger. You might grind away a layer of ply either side of the join and build it up with extra layer(s) of glass, maybe starting with 4", then 6" or 8" to avoid a hard spot. BTW, I don't like using tape because of the bump the selvedge makes - I prefer to cut strips from cloth to whatever width I need. Also, cutting cloth on the bias allows all the strands to cross the joint, rather than just half of them, giving better reinforcement than regular tape. Cutting on the bias is also great for getting the strip to lie down on a curve, although sharp curves are not an issue for you here.

    Okay, I'm getting carried away with giving unsolicited advice here - feel free to ignore any or all of it! It sounds like you're doing a great job already.

    Jamie
    Last edited by Jamie Orr; 12-21-2019 at 02:29 PM. Reason: grammar

  19. #89
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    Default Re: Light Chebacco

    Quote Originally Posted by Jamie Orr View Post
    Okay, I'm getting carried away with giving unsolicited advice here - feel free to ignore any or all of it! It sounds like you're doing a great job already.
    Are you kidding me? That's why I love this forum! Jamie and everyone, I need the advice. Which reminds me...
    In Chebacco News number 2 (from 1995 http://www.chebacco.com/building/chebacco-news-02/), the building sequence states in step 11, "Before you set up the bulkheads it’s a good idea to glue on the one and a half by four “floors” on bulkheads 4 and 5 and the framing around the transom." However, in the plans, I see the floor on bulkhead 5 but I cannot find one on bulkhead 4. Am I missing something? If it's there, is it on the cabin side or the cockpit side? I'd have to butt it right into the CB case logs.

  20. #90
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    Default Re: Light Chebacco

    Quote Originally Posted by Jamie Orr View Post
    I guess you mean you are making Payson scarfs, with tape and epoxy only, on the panels?
    Yes. Well, I'm getting better at it anyway...
    Chris Smead

  21. #91
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    Default Re: Light Chebacco

    Quote Originally Posted by csmead View Post
    Are you kidding me? That's why I love this forum! Jamie and everyone, I need the advice. Which reminds me...
    In Chebacco News number 2 (from 1995 http://www.chebacco.com/building/chebacco-news-02/), the building sequence states in step 11, "Before you set up the bulkheads it’s a good idea to glue on the one and a half by four “floors” on bulkheads 4 and 5 and the framing around the transom." However, in the plans, I see the floor on bulkhead 5 but I cannot find one on bulkhead 4. Am I missing something? If it's there, is it on the cabin side or the cockpit side? I'd have to butt it right into the CB case logs.
    Hi Chris,

    I just had a quick check on the plans. I didn't see and don't recall a floor on that bulkhead, but there is a beam about 2"x 6" across the bulkhead immediately above the centreboard case, on the cabin side. Perhaps that is what Bill was referring to. There is no official building sequence i.e. none from Phil Bolger, so what you have there is based on Bill's experience (which was pretty good). My advice is to always go with what's shown on the plans - the order of things is up to you, with what advice you choose. I don't recall what sequence I followed on that beam, but don't think it will matter much just when you do it as long as you carefully plan the sequence of building.

    Wayward Lass is stored away from my house and I won't have access until the new year. I can do a quick check then if you like, maybe with photographs.

    Jamie

  22. #92
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    Default Re: Light Chebacco

    Chris,
    I love your build and all the questions and answers. With your quality photos and writing style you could create a great blog post on www.Chebacco.com - send me an email at chebacco.com and I will put it up for you. more power to your build!
    Andrew
    Chebacco.com - Chebacco is the most comprehensively documented Bolger design thanks to this website

  23. #93
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    Default Re: Light Chebacco

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Y View Post
    Chris,
    I love your build and all the questions and answers. With your quality photos and writing style you could create a great blog post on www.Chebacco.com - send me an email at chebacco.com and I will put it up for you. more power to your build!
    Andrew
    Good idea. The Chebacco News and later the site has always been a great resource, and the more contributors the better. At one time several of us kept up a pretty steady email conversation too - getting current builders involved would benefit everyone, swapping ideas and up-to-date sources for any hard to find items.

    Jamie

  24. #94
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    Default Re: Light Chebacco

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Y View Post
    Chris,
    I love your build and all the questions and answers. With your quality photos and writing style you could create a great blog post on www.Chebacco.com
    Uhhh, maybe if you created a new tab called "For Dummies" or something... Honestly though, thanks! I'm not sure I would've had confidence enough to even start my build without the collective wisdom of those chebacco studs immortalized on your website! I'd be glad to make any useful contribution. I'll IM ya.

  25. #95
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    Default Re: Light Chebacco

    I received the sail kit from Sailrite (mizzen and gaff main) and started going through the materials and steps. There's a particularly great video on the Sailrite website about sewing up a spritsail which I think will be really helpful. I borrowed a "heavy duty" sewing machine, learned how to thread a bobbin, and started practicing on my oldest jeans. I haven't gathered up the courage to start the actual sailcloth yet, but on the next cold day, I think I'll start in on the mizzen. Hopefully the sewing machine will work for this project - the Sailrite machine in the video looks sweet, but it's a little pricey for me.

  26. #96
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    Default Re: Light Chebacco

    The hull planks are coming along. It's hard to tell if they're fair from both directions, so I tacked them down as best I could and started the epoxying process. When it's finished, I need to glass with fiberglass tape.
    Planking hull
    Planking hull
    Planking hull
    Chris Smead

  27. #97
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    Default Re: Light Chebacco

    I think I'll try Jamie Orr's method with strips of fiberglass, especially because of this experience with the tape. This tape worked fine for scarphed panels, but I had trouble getting it to lie down on corners. I tried up near the bow. I'll probably have to scrape that off and try again.
    Planking hull
    Planking hull

  28. #98
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    Default Re: Light Chebacco

    I recently installed some cheap Amazon lights on the ceiling to help me see what I'm doing. They work great, but it turns out they help a lot in the other direction too!
    Planking hull

  29. #99
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    Default Re: Light Chebacco

    Oh, and this! This is one of the coolest things I've done in a long time. I know this is easy-peasy for you guys who read this, but to me it was like cheating death itself. Using fire, I actually melted metal and made it fit into the circular hole in my centerboard. I only ruined one pair of winter gloves... and my wife's potholder (shhhhhh...).
    Lead casting
    Lead casting
    Lead casting

  30. #100
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    Default Re: Light Chebacco

    Okay, I also splattered a "bit" of lead on my camping stove. Is it still safe to use?

  31. #101
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    Default Re: Light Chebacco

    I would get it off before I used it. If its on the burner, replace the burner. If its on the housing chip it off.

    Kevin
    There are two kinds of boaters: those who have run aground, and those who lie about it.

  32. #102
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    Default Re: Light Chebacco

    I don't mean to divert this fine building thread, but I'm likely to acquire this Chebacco soon:


    She needs a little work, but seems to be in good repair. My pressing question is this:

    ? What is the likely weight of the boat and the trailer?

    I know the answer from some of you will be: it depends...

    I've seen people say the Chebacco weighs between 1200 and 1900 pounds- but I think they are confusing weight and displacement.

    Still, give me your best guess for this 20' model.

    Thanks,
    -Bruce
    Last edited by Bruce Bateau; 03-04-2020 at 08:35 AM.
    Tales from the land and sea: http://terrapintales.wordpress.com/

  33. #103
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    Default Re: Light Chebacco

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Bateau View Post
    I've seen people say the Chebacco weighs between 1200 and 1900 pounds- but I think they are confusing weight and displacement.

    Still, give me your best guess for this 20' model.

    Thanks,
    -Bruce
    Uhm, there is little to confuse: weight is displacement. See Archimedes' principle. As for the weight of this one: impossible to tell from a picture, probalby somewhere in that range. Easiest method would be to find a truck scale nearby and weigh the boat plus trailer. Should give you a ballpark idea.

  34. #104
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    Default Re: Light Chebacco

    Bruce, that's awesome! Funny you should ask about weight. I had the same question and asked in this thread.

    This is the answer I came to accept from post #12:
    1750 lbs is the boat weight, people and 'stuff' that Mr. Bolger knows will put the boat down to that level and sit as he designed it. The 'design displacement'. This is a family boat, so I would expect he's figured on about (two and a half) - 500 lbs worth of people and 100 lbs of gear. Maybe 100lbs of engine, fuel and water. So the boats going to weigh 1050 lbs empty or roughly 5-600 kg. A secondhand one for sale says that is what it weighs. Another site says the same. She is unballasted - there is no keel weight. It's just plywood.

    I don't know any reason why the glued-lapstrake version would have a significantly different weight. She's a beauty! Enjoy.

  35. #105
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    Default Re: Light Chebacco

    Quote Originally Posted by MoritzSchwarzer View Post
    Uhm, there is little to confuse: weight is displacement. See Archimedes' principle. As for the weight of this one: impossible to tell from a picture, probalby somewhere in that range. Easiest method would be to find a truck scale nearby and weigh the boat plus trailer. Should give you a ballpark idea.
    Some designers specify a "trailer weight", and a loaded with crew and stores as "displacement".....not the same at all, and no need for a trailer to carry displacement weight.

    From my information, the boat is 1740lbs at full displacement.(for the sheet ply version)

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