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Thread: R Boat Pirate Pond Yacht

  1. #1
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    Default R Boat Pirate Pond Yacht

    I am looking to build pond yachts with my grade school age grandsons and saw information regarding the "Pirate" and that there were plans and some components available at one time from the Center for Wooden Boats. Does anyone know if this is still available, and if so, how to contact them?

  2. #2
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    Default Re: R Boat Pirate Pond Yacht

    Don't know about the plans, but: https://www.cwb.org/

    Very nice people there, I'm sure a call or email would get you info.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

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    Default Re: R Boat Pirate Pond Yacht

    Back in the day, Detroit Shop classes had a program with kids building model boats.
    There things on the web under "Detroit sailing model" which can inspire you
    Along with this: http://www.dickwightman.com/modelyac...ldingclam.html

    Personally, I think you can be far more casual about it. You can learn a lot by doing things by eye and figuring it out. As a kid I carved several million ( a slight exaggeration) sailing models out of anything I could find, Styrofoam was a favorite, and sailed them as quickly as I could, modifying them on the fly, usually by the beach, until they broke and I would do another one. No kidding I could build and sail 3 or more models in between getting home from school and dark. Having some things, like a lump of ballast and a mast and sail that I could shift from one hull to the next made a big difference.
    The biggest thing I didn't have is epoxy, which would have allowed me to put a hard surface on the hulls, and made things that actually might have lasted more than 30 minutes. If there was a cool boat in a magazine, I built a model of what I though it looked like.
    The quick and dirty, fail early and often method gave me a pretty good sense of things, and was probably empowering as hell.
    You may want to be more structured, but it really isn't hard to figure this stuff out. I have been doodling away on some designs that should be pretty accessible and quick enough to build so the kids don't lose patience. Patience is important, but you have to get them hooked first!
    SHC

  5. #5
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    Default Re: R Boat Pirate Pond Yacht

    Also check out these guys:

    http://www.tippecanoeboats.com/
    There's the plan, then there's what actually happens.

    Ben Sebens, RN

    15' Welsford Navigator Inconceivable
    16' W. Simmons Mattinicus double ender ​Matty

  6. #6
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    Default Re: R Boat Pirate Pond Yacht

    I did restoration work on "Pirate" back in the seventies for her owner Dennis Sulivan. Previously, the boat had belonged to several hippies and the interior had all manner of strange items hung as lucky charms in the interior. She had an aluminum mast and a beast of a heavy engine in her. Denny was not up to dealing with all of the work that the boat needed so, it was aquired by Scott Rohrer who was responsible for the massive and excellent restoration that was done on "Pirate" over nearly four years. Originaly the pond yacht model compition of the R boat were used to raise funds to sent the boat back to the R Boat Nationals at Larchmont NY back in the mid twenties. With West Coast skipper Matt Walsh at the helm "Pirate" won the R Nationals that year and brought the trophy back to the West Coast.

    If the Center for Wooden Boats, cannot help you find plans I suggest that you ask how to contact Scott Rohrer through the Center for Wooden Boats in Seattle. Below is one of the models of Pirate that Scott loaned me for opening day at Balboa Yacht Club just prior to the re-launch of "Pirate".
    Jay
    Last edited by Jay Greer; 05-16-2019 at 08:17 PM.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: R Boat Pirate Pond Yacht

    Thanks all for information. It is quite useful.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: R Boat Pirate Pond Yacht

    Paul Marlow was the contact for the Pirate pond yachts, CWB can probably put you in touch with him.

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    Default Re: R Boat Pirate Pond Yacht

    You do realise that a pond yacht built to the full size Pirate plans will not have adequate stability? You will need to deepen the keel and put all of the ballast down low as on the model in Jay's post.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  10. #10
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    Default Re: R Boat Pirate Pond Yacht

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    You do realise that a pond yacht built to the full size Pirate plans will not have adequate stability? You will need to deepen the keel and put all of the ballast down low as on the model in Jay's post.
    Ted Geary himself did the plans for the Pirate pond yacht.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: R Boat Pirate Pond Yacht

    Quote Originally Posted by johnw View Post
    Ted Geary himself did the plans for the Pirate pond yacht.
    I was talking to Keith Boeckenhauer whose post does not make it plain whether he is looking for the plans of the R boat or of the pond yacht.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

    The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web
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  12. #12
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    Default Re: R Boat Pirate Pond Yacht

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    I was talking to Keith Boeckenhauer whose post does not make it plain whether he is looking for the plans of the R boat or of the pond yacht.
    Yes, I understood your post.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: R Boat Pirate Pond Yacht

    Quote Originally Posted by johnw View Post
    Yes, I understood your post.
    OK, I can now see why you quoted my post.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

    The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web
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  14. #14
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    Default Re: R Boat Pirate Pond Yacht

    I have been trying for about a year now trying to find the plans kit that is mentioned in Paul Marlow's fabulous 136 page Construction Manual for a Model Pond Boat of the Priate (R-11). I was searching for pond yachts and I got a hit for the PDF of this manual which was actually located on the Center for Wooden Boats Apache server which they appeared to have not properly secured from web traffic (although they have now taken care of that). When I first called and spoke to Ned Flash, he looked into it but had to report back that they did not have any copies (digital or otherwise) available anymore but they would try and locate them as they would again like to offer them in their store. I have been pestering them periodically to see if they have had any luck but they have not had any success I have suggested strongly each time that they make contact with Mr. Marlow and see if he can produce a set for the CWB to again offer for sale. They seem to indicate that he does still appear at the center from time to time. It is one of the best manuals for construction I've ever come across and is pretty clearly laid out for anyone to follow which is why I thought even I could make an attempt at it. I gave a copy to my Yacht Club Commodore as he is also the head of the Vintage Model Yacht Association. He was recently at the CWB and I believe he tried to talk to some people about it but got the old "the right people aren't here right now" line.

    If you should hear of a set of the plans kit surfacing I'd certainly like to hear about it. At the least I would think there must be a set of used templates out there somewhere in someone's workshop collecting some dust that would serve as a start to recreating these layouts.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: R Boat Pirate Pond Yacht

    I'm in contact with Paul Marlow. I'm happy to reach out to him to see if plans could be made available.
    - Chris

    Life is short. Go boating now!

  16. #16
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    Default Re: R Boat Pirate Pond Yacht

    As Arnold would say:

    DO IT! DO IT NOW!


    Thank you so very much!
    Last edited by TAGood827; 09-10-2019 at 01:43 PM. Reason: Put in a big smiley face for some reason!

  17. #17
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    Default Re: R Boat Pirate Pond Yacht

    I sent him an email. Will let you know when I hear back.
    - Chris

    Life is short. Go boating now!

  18. #18
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    Default Re: R Boat Pirate Pond Yacht

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    You do realise that a pond yacht built to the full size Pirate plans will not have adequate stability? You will need to deepen the keel and put all of the ballast down low as on the model in Jay's post.
    Yes, it can be seen, in the foto, that the model that was designed by Ted Geary and assisted by Matt Walsh already has the needed ballast attachment.
    Jay
    Last edited by Jay Greer; 09-10-2019 at 01:46 PM.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: R Boat Pirate Pond Yacht

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Greer View Post
    I did restoration work on "Pirate" back in the seventies for her owner Dennis Sulivan. Previously, the boat had belonged to several hippies and the interior had all manner of strange items hung as lucky charms in the interior. She had an aluminum mast and a beast of a heavy engine in her. Denny was not up to dealing with all of the work that the boat needed so, it was aquired by Scott Rohrer who was responsible for the massive and excellent restoration that was done on "Pirate" over nearly four years. Originaly the pond yacht model compition of the R boat were used to raise funds to sent the boat back to the R Boat Nationals at Larchmont NY back in the mid twenties. With West Coast skipper Matt Walsh at the helm "Pirate" won the R Nationals that year and brought the trophy back to the West Coast.

    If the Center for Wooden Boats, cannot help you find plans I suggest that you ask how to contact Scott Rohrer through the Center for Wooden Boats in Seattle. Below is one of the models of Pirate that Scott loaned me for opening day at Balboa Yacht Club just prior to the re-launch of "Pirate".
    Jay
    I belive that Scott Rohr would be able to address the problem of obtaining plans of the model as he was instrumental in resurrecting the idea
    and directing the building the one in the photo above.
    Jay

  20. #20
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    Default Re: R Boat Pirate Pond Yacht

    Jay are you in contact with Scott? I don't know him very well although I am connected through several friends and could reach out that way. I'm interested as well as my son and I are currently restoring an old Dumas Lightning pond boat and would love to build a Pirate some day. He enjoys the CWB R-boats a lot...

    - Chris

    Life is short. Go boating now!

  21. #21
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    Default Re: R Boat Pirate Pond Yacht

    Quote Originally Posted by TAGood827 View Post
    I have been trying for about a year now trying to find the plans kit that is mentioned in Paul Marlow's fabulous 136 page Construction Manual for a Model Pond Boat of the Priate (R-11). I was searching for pond yachts and I got a hit for the PDF of this manual which was actually located on the Center for Wooden Boats Apache server which they appeared to have not properly secured from web traffic (although they have now taken care of that). When I first called and spoke to Ned Flash, he looked into it but had to report back that they did not have any copies (digital or otherwise) available anymore but they would try and locate them as they would again like to offer them in their store. I have been pestering them periodically to see if they have had any luck but they have not had any success I have suggested strongly each time that they make contact with Mr. Marlow and see if he can produce a set for the CWB to again offer for sale. They seem to indicate that he does still appear at the center from time to time. It is one of the best manuals for construction I've ever come across and is pretty clearly laid out for anyone to follow which is why I thought even I could make an attempt at it. I gave a copy to my Yacht Club Commodore as he is also the head of the Vintage Model Yacht Association. He was recently at the CWB and I believe he tried to talk to some people about it but got the old "the right people aren't here right now" line.

    If you should hear of a set of the plans kit surfacing I'd certainly like to hear about it. At the least I would think there must be a set of used templates out there somewhere in someone's workshop collecting some dust that would serve as a start to recreating these layouts.
    I saw Paul at CWB a couple days ago, so he's definitely around. I think he's still on the CWB collections committee, they should have a current email address.

  22. #22
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    Default Re: R Boat Pirate Pond Yacht

    Quote Originally Posted by cstevens View Post
    Jay are you in contact with Scott? I don't know him very well although I am connected through several friends and could reach out that way. I'm interested as well as my son and I are currently restoring an old Dumas Lightning pond boat and would love to build a Pirate some day. He enjoys the CWB R-boats a lot...

    Scott is a good friend of mine although we don't see much of one and other. He can be contacted through the Center for Wooden Boats in Seattle. Say hi for me please!
    Jay

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  24. #24
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    Default Re: R Boat Pirate Pond Yacht

    I haven't heard anything back from Paul and haven't had a chance to connect with Scott yet but I'll try again this weekend. Haven't forgotten though - I'm interested in the plans as well!
    - Chris

    Life is short. Go boating now!

  25. #25
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    Default Re: R Boat Pirate Pond Yacht

    No worries! My daughter just happened to be watching WW and I happened to be walking through the room at that scene. Made me snicker.

  26. #26
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    Default Re: R Boat Pirate Pond Yacht

    Any word from anyone yet?

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    Default Re: R Boat Pirate Pond Yacht

    No plans yet but perhaps some progress... I’ll post an update tomorrow.
    - Chris

    Life is short. Go boating now!

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    Default Re: R Boat Pirate Pond Yacht

    Ok, I heard from Paul. Unfortunately he thinks that the plans have been lost. The originals were donated to the Center for Wooden Boats but apparently they have gone missing. However he says that several sets of templates and jigs for building the boats still exist and he is going to attempt to locate them for me. I have also asked him about the possibility of recreating some form of patterns or plans that could be made available to people interested in making their own models, perhaps distributed by the CWB. I would be happy to take on that project assuming that it is feasible to do so from whatever templates he finds.

    So, it's not quite what we were hoping for, but it's something. I will post updates here as I learn more. Also, TAGood827, you mentioned that you have a copy of the construction manual that Paul created? Would you be willing to share that with me? Paul mentioned it as well but he was not sure if the CWB still had that file either.

    Thanks,

    Chris
    - Chris

    Life is short. Go boating now!

  29. #29
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    Default Re: R Boat Pirate Pond Yacht

    ... I've also now found an email address for Scott Rohrer and have reached out to him as well. I don't expect that he will have any info that Paul does not, but we will see. And in hunting around for more information I found this site:

    http://www.rboat.org/

    which has quite a bit of information about the model boats, including a photo gallery of a build.

    http://www.rboat.org/pond/pondboat.html
    - Chris

    Life is short. Go boating now!

  30. #30
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    Default Re: R Boat Pirate Pond Yacht

    That is unfortunate to hear. Hard to believe the CWB lost them.

    I sincerely hope we can find those original templates to recreate the lifts at the very least.

    Here is a link to what I have collected onthe Pirate: the Manual and the HAER drawings of the Pirate:

    https://www.dropbox.com/sh/nh7wolraw...U-rVzbTxa?dl=0

    You are going to draw them up in CAD? I have access to AutoCAD and SOLIDWORKS and can assist as well. At the very least we can draw up a new set from the HAER drawings if need be. Getting the lifts to match the manual would be ideal, I hope Paul and Scott can help us with that if we have to go that route.

    Wonder if they have the keel mold and sail patterns?

    Well, let's do what we can to bring this back to life!



    Tim

    PS The link to those articles is great! Good reference material! Thanks!

  31. #31
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    Default Re: R Boat Pirate Pond Yacht

    I believe that Scott Rohrer still has the model that I displayed at one time. If so, perhaps he would be willing to allow it to be scanned. Unfortunalty I am dealing with boat problems in another state at this time and am not able to help.
    Jay
    Last edited by Jay Greer; 09-21-2019 at 02:24 PM.

  32. #32
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    Default Re: R Boat Pirate Pond Yacht

    I believe the Pirate pond yacht uses an accurate set of lines for the Pirate, except that the keel is about twice as deep. Lines and offsets for the full-sized Pirate are here:

    http://www.themodelshipwright.com/ne...plan_lines.gif

    From the article here: http://www.themodelshipwright.com/hi...r-boat-pirate/

  33. #33
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    Default Re: R Boat Pirate Pond Yacht

    Here's the HAER website where I got the full resolution TIFF files in my Dropbox link. IIRC they are D or E size drawings.

    https://www.loc.gov/item/wa0864/

  34. #34
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    Default Re: R Boat Pirate Pond Yacht

    What's new on the plans? Has there been any progress finding the templates and molds and such?

    Tim

  35. #35
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    Default Re: R Boat Pirate Pond Yacht

    Quote Originally Posted by TAGood827 View Post
    What's new on the plans? Has there been any progress finding the templates and molds and such?

    Tim
    Yes... Paul Marlow is out of town but has promised to deliver jigs and templates when he returns. Progress is happening
    - Chris

    Life is short. Go boating now!

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