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Thread: paint options

  1. #1
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    Default paint options

    I have a very nice sponson canoe that was glassed over. I am not ready to do a full restore on it but would like to paint it. I ha ENT worked with Fi erglass before. The fiberglass is in great shape but the paint is cracked, not peeling by. Do I need to sand all paint off or can I clean well and recoat with something. 20190505_090529.jpg20190428_154043.jpg

  2. #2
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    Default Re: paint options

    I don't get it. Where are the sponsons on this canoe?

  3. #3
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    Default Re: paint options

    Great boat!
    But is that fiberglass or canvas?

  4. #4
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    Default Re: paint options

    It is fiberglass now

  5. #5
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    Default Re: paint options

    Invisible sponsons were invented in 1906. Basically an air space between the wood and canvas

  6. #6
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    Default Re: paint options

    My practice is to remove any paint that comes off with a scraper or wire brush. Anything that adheres well I paint over.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: paint options

    A hard scrape, light sand, say with 150 grit to feather things in a bit, then prime, another very light sand and then the topcoat. Old finish probably traditional alkyd enamel, I would go with the same. Looks pretty close to Kirby's Seafoam Green.

    Please do post photos of the finished job, it is a very handsome canoe.
    Last edited by SMARTINSEN; 05-05-2019 at 06:47 PM.
    Steve Martinsen

  8. #8
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    Default Re: paint options

    I've sanded all the paint off of my fiberglass covered Old Town to change colors twice, in about three hours each time using a $50, 5" random orbit sander and 80-120 grit disks. It's not really a very hard job. You are going to plug up a lot of disks in the process, but there is no benefit for sanding with a bad disk, so change them often and the $12 or so that a pack costs just should be figured into the price. I don't prime fiberglass because it usually doesn't need it. In this case though, a high build primer after sanding would fill any remaining texture and should sand out to be a pretty smooth base for your paint. Enamels like Kirby's and Brightside work well, as do some other and cheaper paints. This one is ACE Hardware polyurethane floor enamel, which can be custom mixed to just about any color you want and the gallon price is cheaper than a quart of most marine paints.
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  9. #9
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    Default Re: paint options

    So cool that you just responded to me. I saw a postfeom 2010 where you argued for glass and was wondering if you were still available!.the only issue I ha e know is the transom. When they glassed it the trim doesn't covered the edge so now it has delaminated slightly and water could run in between the glass and the wood20190505_121746.jpgit is still all solid so I am thinking about maybe flashing it some how or just sqeezing some sealant on n the gap? Mine also has a keel that it looks to me like was reinstalled after glassing( properly I think) but the screws are showing in the keel. I do t know whether to paint it only or should I coat that with something . Wish I knew more. I cleaned the inside and this thing is nice.20190505_090547.jpgthanks for your time!

  10. #10
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    Default Re: paint options

    Todd has far more canoe experience than most people, I certainly defer to him. The one he pictured is beautiful.
    I just finished repairing peeling fiberglass on plywood decks. My method was to scrape off the loose glass with a new hook scraper, the inexpensive ones with a four sided blade. Scrape off what comes easily, stop where it won't peel or damages the wood. The edge can be feathered with the same tool. I then wet the bare wood with epoxy, lay glass cloth in it, and brushed on more epoxy. You want to be careful working vertically to avoid runs. When the glass is "green", tough, rubbery, but not rock hard, trim it with the scraper. Fill and paint it.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: paint options

    When they glassed it the trim doesn't covered the edge so now it has delaminated slightly and water could run in between the glass and the wood
    That's a serious situation which really needs to be fixed, and epoxy resin is what should be used to do it. Without getting a clear, in-depth look at the spot in question it is hard to say what level of repair is called for, but water under the fiberglass can (or more likely will) eventually lead to rot. Whether this dictates just lifting the edge and working some epoxy down in there, or peeling off anything loose and re-glassing a larger area is hard to say at this point, but do go to any lengths you can to keep moisture out of there.

    The fact that you do have some spots of delamination may also indicate that it was fibergassed with polyester resin, rather than epoxy resin. While not the instant kiss of death that some would claim it is (my 45 year od fur trade canoe was glassed with polyester) epoxy when properly done will rarely delaminate from soft woods. Polyester's bond to wood can vary between excellent and horrible, just depending on the specific formula of resin used, the prep and quality of work done, and the knowledge of the person applying it. Any current or future repairs involving resins, glass, etc. should be done with epoxy resin.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: paint options

    Rustoleum sells a marine oil based paint. I used it on my fiberglass covered fantail launch and also repainted my old fiberglass canoe with it. Great results and not expensive.
    Nice boat. What HP is that engine? Looks like it could really move that boat along at a good clip.
    I was born on a wooden boat that I built myself.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: paint options

    One other thing. The keel is wood and mustha e been redone when the fiberglaywas done.it is in good shape but the paint is worn and some of the bolts are showing. Should I fill these and then paint. 20190505_115538.jpg

  14. #14
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    Default Re: paint options

    Yes, I would just putty and paint that.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: paint options

    Quote Originally Posted by johngsandusky View Post
    Yes, I would just putty and paint that.
    Sorry if this is dumb but what do you mean when you say"putty"(you mean the keel

  16. #16
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    Default Re: paint options

    The problem there is that you have very little good surface area for fill to stick to. The fill should be an epoxy resin/filer powder mixture (high strength filler powder like WEST 404). If it was mine, I'd take out the screws, one by one if needed, or maybe every other one, then clean up the wood at the holes, removing any paint. Then I would sand scrape or strip the paint off of the screw head, put the screw back in with a dab of a marine calk or bedding compound in the hole to seal it and then fill over the top with the epoxy filler mixture. That way, the epoxy filler has a decent chance to stick to the clean screw head and that little bit of exposed wood along the sides of the hole. Overfill it a bit and once hardened, sand it flush and paint.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: paint options

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimgoodale View Post
    Sorry if this is dumb but what do you mean when you say"putty"(you mean the keel
    Sorry, yes, I was talking about the keel.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: paint options

    Are those screws in the keel just near the bow end? Typically, with wood and canvas canoes, the screws go into the keel from the inside of the boat. There are always a few screws that go into the stem from the outside of the keel near the ends of the canoe. These are typically covered with bedding compound and a brass stem band. The stem band also covers the canvas seam. When people fiberglass these things, sometimes if not usually, the stem band is left off the canoe. Anyway, if you restore the boat, you are going to want to be able to extract those screws.

    Nice project.

    Fitz
    "Wherever there is a channel for water, there is a road for the canoe. " - Thoreau

  19. #19
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    Default Re: paint options

    Even with epoxy fills, removing them to get access to the screws wouldn't be a big deal. They're going to be so thin that a little chipping and maybe heating them up with a soldering iron will get the resin to let go. As for the stem band, I'd leave it if you have one, and find one if I didn't. A brass stem band is more abrasion resistant that several layers of fiberglass over the stem. Plus, I think they look nice.
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  20. #20
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    Default Re: paint options

    so what they hve done is run brass bolts up through the keel and the center board inside. they also used screws into the boards used for seat supports(1/2" boards standing up under seat)the keel itself is very solid and sealed well to the canoe. I am only concerned that water may get in through the holes that run up through. I had considered filling the holes and coating the keel with resin. do you think that this would be needed? I figured that it would be a fail safe for now and I would do this before painting and if I ever do a full restore (most likely not) I could grind it off and like you said heat it or whatever it takes. the stem band only goes on the front correct? looks like I could try to find some u shaped brass for that

  21. #21
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    Default Re: paint options

    Are the screws doing any work? Is the rub strip glued on? Or are they holding some piece of internal structure, like the keelson?
    They look like a post build fix for something.
    I'd explore popping out the screws permanently and fill with thickened epoxy.
    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

  22. #22
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    Default Re: paint options

    This is fairly typical freight canoe or large motor canoe construction, with the keelson inside, half-ribs on the inner floor and the keel/keelson assembly pogo-sticked off of the seats. It is done to stiffen and reinforce the bottom when pounding on waves while running at motorboat speeds. The screws are sandwiching the hull between the keel outside and keelson inside. They are structural and I would not remove them.

    It isn't unusual for the builder to set up a rip fence at a slight angle to the table saw's blade and run the keel piece through, cutting a slight hollow to the side of the keel which will be up against the hull. Then they slather the hollow full of traditional bedding compound, press it tightly up against the hull and screw the keel on. On most wood/canvas hulls, without the keelson, the screws run from inside the canoe, with finish washers, through the hull and into the keel piece. On a hull like this, with the keelson inside, you can drive screws from either the inside or the outside, linking the keel, hull and keelson for maximum strength and hull stiffness.

    There are a lot of goo-in-a-tube varieties of marine adhesive/sealants which could be used to bed the keel and seal against leaky screw holes (as well as to help prevent trapped moisture between keel and hull rotting the keel) but plain old non-adhesive marine bedding compound is pretty hard to beat for that job. I don't think epoxy would do anything that a goof bedding job wouldn't do. Bedding compound is not glue, non-sticky and non-drying. It is kind of like plumber's putty, only a little thinner. It can actually have a very long service life. On some of the old boats that I've rebuilt, the old bedding compound under fixtures was about the only thing on the boat that wasn't trashed.

  23. #23
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    Default Re: paint options

    Quote Originally Posted by Todd Bradshaw View Post
    This is fairly typical freight canoe or large motor canoe construction, with the keelson inside, half-ribs on the inner floor and the keel/keelson assembly pogo-sticked off of the seats. It is done to stiffen and reinforce the bottom when pounding on waves while running at motorboat speeds. The screws are sandwiching the hull between the keel outside and keelson inside. They are structural and I would not remove them.

    It isn't unusual for the builder to set up a rip fence at a slight angle to the table saw's blade and run the keel piece through, cutting a slight hollow to the side of the keel which will be up against the hull. Then they slather the hollow full of traditional bedding compound, press it tightly up against the hull and screw the keel on. On most wood/canvas hulls, without the keelson, the screws run from inside the canoe, with finish washers, through the hull and into the keel piece. On a hull like this, with the keelson inside, you can drive screws from either the inside or the outside, linking the keel, hull and keelson for maximum strength and hull stiffness.

    There are a lot of goo-in-a-tube varieties of marine adhesive/sealants which could be used to bed the keel and seal against leaky screw holes (as well as to help prevent trapped moisture between keel and hull rotting the keel) but plain old non-adhesive marine bedding compound is pretty hard to beat for that job. I don't think epoxy would do anything that a goof bedding job wouldn't do. Bedding compound is not glue, non-sticky and non-drying. It is kind of like plumber's putty, only a little thinner. It can actually have a very long service life. On some of the old boats that I've rebuilt, the old bedding compound under fixtures was about the only thing on the boat that wasn't trashed.
    Todd,

    Thanks for your time here. So maybe I don't have anything to worry about? Youbdid sY screws, though and not bolts. Would they have exer used bolts and nuts in this fashionIf this was done properly it probably doesn't leak anyway. I would t remove the screws now because this is very tivht. I just thought if there was a way to seal these bolt heads I would never have to worry. I had another boxes to put on a stem band 3/8"half oval hollow back on the front and then where did ends on bottom start a piece of 3/4 oval hollow back set in. Bedding compound screwed into keel as a keel protected. This would stop all damage to keel and last a long time. Maybe I should just paint it

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